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sejon

A possible reason why the Regimen stopped working for me

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It's been about a year since I gave up on Dan's Regimen.

I started it in the fall of 2007. Everything was going smoothly. It took me about 3 months or so to get clear, and I remained clear for a good 5 months or so. I was ecstatic that I had finally found something that worked, and proud that I had managed to stick to a regimen so strictly and attentively. It had actually paid off in the end!

But the problem was the payoff was only temporary. Come June of 2008, I started breaking out again. Yet I had done nothing differently. I was abiding by the Regimen as closely as I had always been when it was successful.

I noticed that my acne had become far worse in the relapse than when I had started the Regimen. It was deeper in my skin, painful, and cystic, as opposed to merely superficial pimples. Yet I continued the Regimen for another 6 months, and my skin improved only slightly. Something was wrong. It had simply stopped working.

Since then, I've been on an Accutane course, which cleared me up. And then a couple months after the course, surprise surprise! Acne relapsed, although I can at least finally say that it's no longer cystic.

I was looking into alternative treatments, and came across Carley's Clear and Smooth as quite a few people have been raving about it in the reviews section of this site. It had its own regimen, yet like Dan's, it was based around the application of BP, which had me initially very sceptical. However, there's a critical difference: for the Clear and Smooth regimen, the BP is left on in the shower for only 30 seconds and washed off. Whereas in Dan's, it's absorbed fully into the skin in large quantities, twice a day! I found it curious that Dan's Regimen was about using copious amounts of BP and leaving it on permanently, whereas the Clear and Smooth regimen stresses the importance of washing off the BP with a washcloth to ensure there isn't any left on the skin.

So I emailed Clear and Smooth and asked what their reasoning behind this regimen was. They explained that if a BP-based regimen is used where the benzoyl peroxide treatment is not fully washed off after application, there is high likelihood that the regimen isn't going to keep the person clear long-term.

But why? Their explanation is that if BP is simply left on the skin, some of the acne-causing bacteria on the face is going to be driven deeper into the skin as a response, where future BP applications won't be able to kill it. What results is cystic acne.

Now I found this awfully coincidental considering this is precisely what happened from my personal experience, yet I had made no mention of it to them! So I've begun to lend credence to their regimen.

So that's where I am now. Currently suffering from mild-moderate (but frustrating persistent) acne, and have been giving the Clear and Smooth regimen a shot.

So far it's been about 7 weeks on the Clear and Smooth regimen, and improvement, if any, hasn't been all that noticeable. I'm not disheartened, however; recall that it took about 3 months on Dan's Regimen to see convincing results.

If you're interested in learning more about it, here's their website:

https://www.clearandsmoothskin.com/index.php

I believe they also have a very active store on ebay. It helps that the products are reasonably priced, and that their natural soap is fantastic (and they give you a free bar of it with each product you order, so it's not difficult to amass quite a collection of it).

However, that's not all I'm doing. After a lot of research, I also decided finally to invest in a blue/red light therapy lamp to treat acne. Specifically, the Caribbean Sun Box, which was more affordable and still has garnered some great reviews. This is experimentation, but I've heard great things about light therapy as of late, with people comparing its efficacy to that of BP or even Accutane, so I figured it was worth a shot. Moreover, if used as combination therapy with the Clear and Smooth regimen, I'm hoping I can quell my breakouts once and for all. I've only been doing light therapy for the past 2 weeks, mind you, and they generally say improvement won't be apparent until 2-3 months into it.

Some other things to note:

I take 2 fish oil pills a day.

I've greatly minimized (although not eliminated altogether, mind you) both dairy and grain in my diet due to some evidence that they are correlated with acne.

I am not applying any topical treatment to my face other than what is outlined in the Clear and Smooth regimen. They stress that no other topicals should be used in the regimen lest they interfere with it.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed and am hoping for the best.

I just wanted to share my experiences, thoughts, and plans with the rest of you. These forums have helped me in the past, and for that brief time I was clear I was ever-thankful for this community. So I feel I owe it to all of you to keep you updated on the fact that Dan's Regimen didn't work for me long-term, sadly.

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...are you claiming I'm simply shamelessly advertising Clear & Smooth? Seriously? O_O

If that were the case, wouldn't I be feeding you all with all this false information that it's cleared me up completely, is a godsend, etc. etc.?

If you read my post, I said that I've been on it for 7 weeks now and haven't seen much of an improvement yet, but am hoping that will change. How does that come across like I'm promoting it???

Sorry, but I can't help but take offence to that allegation when I thought I was being nice and helpful in informing people what I've been doing, what I've learned, etc.

Just so you know, I've heard about that whole advertising deal, but chose not to sign up for it. If their products do work for me in the end, I feel people ought to know because they deserve to, not because I could potentially make a few petty bucks off of it. That's not even worth the hassle.

Edited by sejon

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...are you claiming I'm simply shamelessly advertising Clear & Smooth? Seriously? O_O

All I stated was that I hoped that wasn't your motive, and if it isn't there isn't a debate. I never accused you of anything, so there isn't any reason to be defensive. Even the way way my sentence was constructed hinted at the benefit of the doubt (obviously since I do not know you, and that would be complete arrogance to judge your intentions), so it was not an accusation.

If you read my post, I said that I've been on it for 7 weeks now and haven't seen much of an improvement yet, but am hoping that will change. How does that come across like I'm promoting it???

Of course I did read your post. My reply was a mere observation after reading your post and clicking the link you provided for further observation. Not to mention, the reason you received from Clear & Smooth about washing off BP is very interesting and definitely worth investigating since it seems to have some merit.

Sorry, but I can't help but take offence to that allegation when I thought I was being nice and helpful in informing people what I've been doing, what I've learned, etc.

Just so you know, I've heard about that whole advertising deal, but chose not to sign up for it. If their products do work for me in the end, I feel people ought to know because they deserve to, not because I could potentially make a few petty bucks off of it. That's not even worth the hassle.

I have the same motive as you claim, being helpful to others. Yours may be personal experience of a product, mine is full awareness of possible situations. In my opinion, to be partially informed is almost just as tragic as being misinformed. I had no objective of flaming, and my post wasn't personal so it shouldn't be taken personal.

Edited by ijpinilla

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That's fine. I may have overreacted, but consider things from my perspective. The only input you had to share was mentioning the possibility that I might be doing this for my own personal gain. That was all you felt like saying on the subject.

Any normal person is going to be a bit frustrated with a solely negative response like that right off the bat, especially when he feels it was uncalled for. Especially when my post delved into the reasoning behind my choice to give Clear and Smooth a shot, rather than it being mere mindless praise.

And to be frank, it was an accusation. You put forth the possibility that I might be being disingenuous to make a profit. Just because you worded it with "Hopefully this isn't the case..." instead of "You're doing it because of this, aren't you?" doesn't make the intent of your post any less accusatory. Sure, it was done more peaceably and indirectly that way, but it was an accusation regardless. You posted it with the expectation that I would either a.) defend myself or b.) 'fess up, depending on the veracity of the claim, did you not? That is what an accusation is. But this is just an argument of semantics.

(EDIT: After reading your edited post where you at least acknowledge that I have reasoning behind it, I'm even less inclined to continue this silly argument. Let's just chalk it up as a misunderstanding, yea?)

Anyway, in the hope that my topic hasn't already been completely undermined, I wanted to inform everyone that I ordered a Vitamin C shower filter and will be getting it in a couple days, and that I'll be updating this when I see the results, if any. This is also serving as a personal log of all the changes I've been making so I can keep track of them.

It's a Vita Shower filter, to be precise, if any are interested in knowing. This is their website:

http://vitashowercorp.com/index.html

Edited by sejon

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Nice thread ^_^ I had the same problem as you did. BP was working, I stayed clear for 2 weeks after three months, then I wasn't. I went off it last week, and instantly pimples formed, so now I'm back on it. I hope my acne doesn't go cystic once I decide to go off it for good. Wow. It sounds like BP had a huge side effect when you went off. Washing off BP, very interesting. I guess I never thought of what you said about it causing bacteria, and making it so it won't be absorbed the next time around. 0_0 Wow. I'm going to try washing it off, and see if it helps me. It's on my list of things to try revolving around BP.

Also, Vitamin C shower filter. I'm going to check that out!

EDIT: Keep us updated if the Regimen your on helps or not!

Edited by Vampireninja09

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That's fine. I may have overreacted, but consider things from my perspective. The only input you had to share was mentioning the possibility that I might be doing this for my own personal gain. That was all you felt like saying on the subject.

Yes exactly. As I stated in my earlier post, my assistance was purely for others to gain the entire picture, as in exposing all possible factors. Not personal.

And to be frank, it was an accusation. You put forth the possibility that I might be being disingenuous to make a profit. Just because you worded it with "Hopefully this isn't the case..." instead of "You're doing it because of this, aren't you?" doesn't make the intent of your post any less accusatory. Sure, it was done more peaceably and indirectly that way, but it was an accusation regardless. You posted it with the expectation that I would either a.) defend myself or b.) 'fess up, depending on the veracity of the claim, did you not? That is what an accusation is. But this is just an argument of semantics.

Semantics make a considerable difference on inflection, especially through text which exists without cues from tone of voice. To learn semantics, one must be aware of the difference variations these refer to. Also, non-verbal language plays a significant role in communication, which mere text also lacks. Not to mention there is a bigger difference in how you say things rather than what you say. Read, "How to Make Friends and How to Influence People" if you haven't. There may be many different ways to express a single statement, and these differences illustrate the implications of statements. "Hopefully" as I clearly stated and in I have hope that your motives weren't for the sole purpose of personal gain (positive), instead of "You did this because.." as would imply I had firm belief of your motives without being empirical (negative). I already stated my motives and informing people of the entire picture, so my expectations are clear.

(EDIT: After reading your edited post where you at least acknowledge that I have reasoning behind it, I'm even less inclined to continue this silly argument. Let's just chalk it up as a misunderstanding, yea?)

Of course I acknowledge the reasoning provided by Clear & Smooth. It makes sense biologically, hard to deny that. And yes, a misunderstanding indeed.

Anyway, in the hope that my topic hasn't already been completely undermined, I wanted to inform everyone that I ordered a Vitamin C shower filter and will be getting it in a couple days, and that I'll be updating this when I see the results, if any. This is also serving as a personal log of all the changes I've been making so I can keep track of them.

Good luck. I hope it works for you! :D It's nice to have an alternative.

Edited by ijpinilla

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Nice thread ^_^ I had the same problem as you did. BP was working, I stayed clear for 2 weeks after three months, then I wasn't. I went off it last week, and instantly pimples formed, so now I'm back on it. I hope my acne doesn't go cystic once I decide to go off it for good. Wow. It sounds like BP had a huge side effect when you went off. Washing off BP, very interesting. I guess I never thought of what you said about it causing bacteria, and making it so it won't be absorbed the next time around. 0_0 Wow. I'm going to try washing it off, and see if it helps me. It's on my list of things to try revolving around BP.

Also, Vitamin C shower filter. I'm going to check that out!

EDIT: Keep us updated if the Regimen your on helps or not!

Seeing as I feel 3 months on Dan's Regimen should be enough time to draw conclusions as to whether or not it's working, maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to try the washing off method.

I don't imagine there's anything too special about Clear and Smooth's BP, aside from the fact that it's designed to be a scrub. It's 2.5% strength just like Dan's BP. So maybe the same method might work with Dan's BP. At the very least, it's worth a shot.

Granted, if you're going to start doing that, you'll need to give the new regimen enough time (maybe another 2-3 months) to decide whether or not it's working for you. And perhaps waning yourself gradually off of Dan's Regimen would be wise first.

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Hopefully you're not posting about Clear & Smooth because of this:

http://www.no-acne.com/affiliate.html

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think ijpinilla is just a skeptic... nothing wrong with that in my opinion :) Especially with the thousands of acne treatments out there, you have to ask questions and look deep sometimes to find out who wants to help you, and who wants to take your money.

I think the concept is interesting though, as Dan's reg stopped working for me too. My acne also got worse afterward. I'll keep reading about your journey.

skylyre

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Their explanation is that if BP is simply left on the skin, some of the acne-causing bacteria on the face is going to be driven deeper into the skin as a response, where future BP applications won't be able to kill it. What results is cystic acne.
It is an interesting claim that P. acnes can be herded like cattle fleeing before the cowboy-like benzoyl peroxide. Did they mention any sort of research this might be based on? Does it follow that one could then paint BP on the face in a small, but ever-expanding line, thereby slowly herding all the acne across the face and back behind the hairline? Or is there some evidence (sure haven't found it myself) that P. acnes is more like gophers, and only flees downward, never sideways? Hmmmm.

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Is it really such a far-fetched claim to warrant that kind of sarcasm?

Considering my experiences with BP, it certainly seems reasonable enough.

Not to mention, P. acnes is a symbiotic bacteria that belongs on your face. It just goes out of control when pores are clogged. The thought of slathering your face with copious amounts of BP to eliminate as much of this bacteria as possible -- when it is in fact, under normal circumstances, beneficial to your skin's health -- is a bit off-putting to me.

The fact of the matter is: Dan's Regimen stopped working for me. What's wrong with me considering various possibilities as to what might have been the cause?

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Well, after reading what ijpinilla posted, it did, indeed, make me semi-skeptical of your claims, particularly how it was worded. No, that doesn't mean you're doing it for money, but it brings up the possibility that you are and one cannot discount that.

I have a degree in graphic design and we had to learn all the tricks of the trade in marketing - one of them included making the product seem realistic and not gimmiky. To do this, one can deliberately pose certain ideas, such as "it needs more time to work" and to make clear it isn't some "miracle product." Then, one must back up their product with reasons as to why it SHOULD work. This makes the consumer feel a little less lied to, makes the producers seem more caring because they're using a soft sell tactic, and makes the product seem more realistic and more worth giving a shot.

You have no reason to feel offended by this - just pointing out that to some users, your post COULD seem like a potential for you to make a little extra cash.

As for the claim that bacteria digs deeper into your skin? I tried to find any research supporting this claim and came up with absolutely nothing - not that it doesn't exist, just that I'd like to see some studies so I can confirm the accuracy of this concept. I'm still skeptical of the idea without proof. If p. acnes bacteria retreated further into the skin, wouldn't everyone with acne using BP be affected by it? I know a woman who has used BP for over 9 years and still has success with it.

And actually, out of sheer curiosity, I called the two dermatologist offices in my area and asked them about it. Neither agreed and one offered the advice that sometimes hormones can change or be unstable which could cause more severe acne and if one had previous success with BP, then the problem may just be a severe hormonal problem that topicals will not be able to completely combat. Of course, coming from derms who probably want to make a buck off of products, I'm not sure how true or untrue this is.

Have you checked your diet? Some things can cause terrible acne to flare up - with or without BP. Dairy, too much grain or enriched stuff, sugar, potatoes or things like peanuts and soy, which are common allergens that can cause acne in some folks. I was upset for a short while when the regimen seemed to stop working. I also noticed that in that time, I was eating more candy than usual (halloween stuff) and indulged more dairy and grain than I normally do. Once I went back to my semi-healthy eating habits, the slight cystic stuff I was getting cleared up. I think a topical + internal approach is always most effective.

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Hmm...

Couldn't ANYONE who posts on this message board recommending any particular product be doing it due to a secret affiliation with that product? And therefore are just marketing?

I don't see why this guy's being picked on for that. If you want to be extremely skeptical, then more power to you. But I hope that means you're extending your skepticism to practically everyone on here. Only seems fair, heh.

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Hmm...

Couldn't ANYONE who posts on this message board recommending any particular product be doing it due to a secret affiliation with that product? And therefore are just marketing?

I don't see why this guy's being picked on for that. If you want to be extremely skeptical, then more power to you. But I hope that means you're extending your skepticism to practically everyone on here. Only seems fair, heh.

I'm not picking on him - just pointing out what it could possibly seem like.

And yes, I DO happen to be skeptical of anybody with similar posts or anybody who pulls out the "For more information...go here" card. That ALWAYS seems fishy to me, unless somebody specifically asks for it.

*edit* and you also bring up a good point - ANYBODY can slyly be marketing. My boyfriend gets PAID to do that crap (and hates it, of course) He's a designer and "e-specialist" and one of his jobs is to sign up to as many forums as he can find relating to motorcycles, post around like he's one of them and when somebody asks a question, he's able to slyly slip in their website - "yeah, I get my helmets [here]" then throws in a few good words and something totally unrelated to make him seem like he's not just a marketer. In his words - it's a horribly underhanded tactic to boost sales. The bad part is that it works. I don't doubt there are people like that on here (though I'm sure the OP probably isn't one of them) Marketing is an evil necessity. I feel too guilty doing it which is why i'm going back to school to get my master's in education :) but now I'm just getting way off topic

Edited by gMARIAs

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As for the claim that bacteria digs deeper into your skin? I tried to find any research supporting this claim and came up with absolutely nothing - not that it doesn't exist, just that I'd like to see some studies so I can confirm the accuracy of this concept. I'm still skeptical of the idea without proof. If p. acnes bacteria retreated further into the skin, wouldn't everyone with acne using BP be affected by it? I know a woman who has used BP for over 9 years and still has success with it.

And actually, out of sheer curiosity, I called the two dermatologist offices in my area and asked them about it. Neither agreed and one offered the advice that sometimes hormones can change or be unstable which could cause more severe acne and if one had previous success with BP, then the problem may just be a severe hormonal problem that topicals will not be able to completely combat. Of course, coming from derms who probably want to make a buck off of products, I'm not sure how true or untrue this is.

Very interesting and clarifying. Not to mention, it's pretty awesome you took the time to call two dermatologist offices. Thanks for the answers, because even with my healthy dose of skepticism, I was still scared about the idea of bacteria migrating deeper beneath my skin and if it could actually happen. :wacko:

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As for the claim that bacteria digs deeper into your skin? I tried to find any research supporting this claim and came up with absolutely nothing - not that it doesn't exist, just that I'd like to see some studies so I can confirm the accuracy of this concept. I'm still skeptical of the idea without proof. If p. acnes bacteria retreated further into the skin, wouldn't everyone with acne using BP be affected by it? I know a woman who has used BP for over 9 years and still has success with it.

And actually, out of sheer curiosity, I called the two dermatologist offices in my area and asked them about it. Neither agreed and one offered the advice that sometimes hormones can change or be unstable which could cause more severe acne and if one had previous success with BP, then the problem may just be a severe hormonal problem that topicals will not be able to completely combat. Of course, coming from derms who probably want to make a buck off of products, I'm not sure how true or untrue this is.

Very interesting and clarifying. Not to mention, it's pretty awesome you took the time to call two dermatologist offices. Thanks for the answers, because even with my healthy dose of skepticism, I was still scared about the idea of bacteria migrating deeper beneath my skin and if it could actually happen. :wacko:

I'm a research-aholic and since I couldn't find ANYTHING online about it, I figured dermatologist offices would be the next best thing. :)

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