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isabella-x

What laser do you recommend?

What lasers do you recommend for acne scarring?

i have mild scarring which seems to be getting not deeper

but wider!! for some flippin reason :(

anywho im freaking out, and just wish i could have no scars like i

used to be.

i don't want peels or whatever

please tell me what laser methods yield the best results..

my dermaologist has Sciton Profractional w/ MicroLaserPeel.

anygood?

and if possible what percentage could i get out of these treatments

i feel sick when people say they only get 10-15% improvements :(

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I consulted with one ps who uses the Sciton machine and recommended the Pro-fractional laser plus Microlaser peel combo. I ended up choosing a different ps who recommended fractional CO2 for my scarring, and said the CO2 delivers stronger beam for collagen repair. The Sciton is erbium laser, which has been said to be less effective, HOWEVER, I've also read the Sciton machine in particular has the capability to achieve the same results as CO2.

I ended up having the fractional CO2 done on May 5, my ps uses the Matrix machine, and would say my results were approx 30% (maybe slightly better, I'm terrible with percentages like that). I have no way of knowing if the Sciton would have yielded better results, but I'm pretty happy with my results. I am going to have another treatment, both ps's told me I might need two treatments with my scarring to achieve 80% improvement.

Anyone with significant scarring will not achieve 80%+ improvement with one treatment, and I've heard and read the the second treatment typically gives better results.

The other important thing to remember is both of those treatments are comparable to Fraxel Repair, or Deep FX, they are not "weekend" treatments, it's very intense and involves about 7 days of downtime. Even though they are considered "non ablative", they are damaging the tissue and collagen below the surface and that involves healing from the inside out. I had oozing, swelling, and some discomfort for about 5 days. The last 2 days the redness and swelling finally reduce and I was able to wear make up and go out on day 7.

And lastly, the final results from this kind of laser treatment are not immediate. The collagen continues to repair itself over the course of 4-6 months, so you continue to see improvement each week. I am 8 weeks post op and feel like my skin keeps getting better. I'm excited to have my second treatment and feel like I might finally have my life back!!!

I know there has been some controversy and discussion about Fraxel Repair and similar treatments lately, but my experience was awesome. I am caucasion with fair skin, but I've heard the fractional laser is safe for darker skin as well.

Good luck!! Feel free to PM or reply with questions.

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Lovemylife,

thank you for your report on your laser treatment.

How deep were your deepest scars and did they improve by 30% too or less? Do you have rolling or icepick scars?

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Isabella, no laser will give you the results you want in one treatment. I believe Fraxel Repair has the superior delivery method. There is so much confusion about the different types of lasers, I have finally located the link to the Laser Specifications Table. This table compares Fraxel Repair, MixtoSX, Active FX and DeepFX only. I consider the non-ablative lasers ineffective. The doctors I have spoke with consider depth of penetration the key to helping acne scars. For your reference 700 Microns = .7mm. I hope this clears up some of the confusion about CO2 Ablative lasers. Anyone considering any of these lasers should bookmark this link.

http://www.mixtoskinresurfacing.com/downlo...heticTrends.pdf

_________________

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lovemylife: thankyou very much for the detail

may i ask the type and severity of your scarring

and how long you've had it please?

dudley: thanks, i do understand i cannot beat my scars with just one treatment.

i've become obsessed since i've had them trying to get rid of them

searching sites upon sites :(

my specialist only uses the profractional and a CO2 (not a fractional one)

my scars are 6months old. but they seem to be getting worse

i see my skin everyday, and i see no improvement!

re:pair seems amazing, but its ablative and i have no experience with

lasers and no seemingly trust-worthy derms that use it in my state.

do you think i should try a few profractional treatments???

my scarring is not on the sides of my face, like most that i see with others

its in the middle. so obvious. so embarassing :(

please help

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Isabella, I am more than a little biased against non-ablative lasers. I also found Dermabrasion and the old CO2 to be useless. Fraxel Repair is the ONLY procedure that has ever given me any improvement. Repair is not without possible complications, but most who pan have never had it. On RealSelf.com Repair is hovering around the 70% approval rating. This link should aid you in your doctor search http://www.fraxel.com/findDoctor.cfm At the time I had my first Repair there was only 35 machines in America, but through extensive searching I found the only doctor within 200 miles and she was only 3 miles away. Do not do anything until you are comfortable with your decision. I was lucky to run into an honest PS who advised me against Restore. A year later Repair was released, and then my big decision was between Repair and TotalFX. I like Repairs rolling delivery better than the way TotalFX is done. Most doctors are not as honest as the one I ran into, and of course they are going to promote the flavor of laser that they have. Do your research, select what you want, and then go looking for the doctor.

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thankyou very much for the insight dudley

can i also ask the same questions i asked lovemylife earlier

to you...

what was the severity and type of your scars?

and how long have you had them?

also i'm curious to what you think your result should be

once finished with re:pair??

im searching at the moment for a doc, im just

not sure i can face alot of downtime or travel very far...sucks.

sorry for all the questions too BUT can fractional lasers

deepen by scarring or any laser for that matter.

because my most troublesome scar started out as about 1mm deep

and now its much much shallower, but recently gotten wider

as thought its spread!

so will the laser worsen this?? im so extremely scared

but soo desperate to have my scars improved dramatically!

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thankyou very much for the insight dudley

can i also ask the same questions i asked lovemylife earlier

to you...

what was the severity and type of your scars?

and how long have you had them?

also i'm curious to what you think your result should be

once finished with re:pair??

im searching at the moment for a doc, im just

not sure i can face alot of downtime or travel very far...sucks.

sorry for all the questions too BUT can fractional lasers

deepen by scarring or any laser for that matter.

because my most troublesome scar started out as about 1mm deep

and now its much much shallower, but recently gotten wider

as thought its spread!

so will the laser worsen this?? im so extremely scared

but soo desperate to have my scars improved dramatically!

I would say I had severe scarring and I was always uncomfortable, sometimes even when I was alone. I am probably the oldest poster on this forum, so I have older scars than anybody. I don't think I ever had icepick scars, or raised scars, but I had everything else. I figure if I can achieve good results at my age that younger people will get even better results, basically because you are not also dealing with aging. If it is determined that you are a good candidate for Fraxel Repair, I think it would be foolish for you to "try" any other procedure. Fraxel Repair is the most expensive for a good reason. You need to weigh the expense of doing an ineffective procedure, and then doing Repair at a later date, or biting the bullet and traveling to get Repair done. I couldn't view your picture so I don't know the extent of your scarring, but since you are talking about individual scars you may have altenatives to full face Repair. I can't comment on subcission or excision, but they may be viable options.

After my first repair, I realized about a 30% improvement. The 2nd repair brought that up to about 50-60%. I am hoping for about 80-90% from the 3rd, and from that point I will decide wether to do #4. I have never had the confidence I should have had with my personality. I have been married 3 times, twice to the same absolute beauty, but I feel the scars were hanging over my head my entire life.

You are actually lucky to be dealing with your scars today rather than when I started and Dermabrasion was the only horse in town. Don't get discouraged, if this old man can find success, anybody can!

P.S. Take the time to read through the many evaluations on this link.

http://www.realself.com/Fraxel-Repair/reviews#reviews

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I have had 3 profractionals to date. My 3rd was in January and done at a high intensity with 7 days downtime. I am 7 months post and have had from the three about a 30% improvement. I am going to have my last of 4 in September. I will also be using the leds for a further improvement. It has cost me 3600 for a set of four. Profractional is my first attempt at improving my scarring. I wish I had researched more and found a PS who uses a fractionated CO2. THe results from 1 are as good or better than a set 3 profractionals. I plan on trying fractional CO2 next time.

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wow dudley thats incredible 50-60% after 2. I actually feel a bit better hearing your

story so thankyou soooo much. Its also great to hear that you've continued

with your life and found love! Gives me a bit more motivation, I definately have

not been my once happy self since these scars came, but you're absolutely right

there's alot of technology around since dermabrasion and the old CO2.

fingers crossed that i overcome my issues.

once again thankyou very very much it's good to see people take the time

to help others once they find success!

results are permanent with laser aren't they???

and please keep me posted on your improvement and treatments if you can

Kat: thanks for sharing, yeah i think the profractional will be my first

attempt aswell. What type and severity of scars have did you have?

and how old are they?

(sorry to sound so repetitive but it sheds some light if i can compare someone to

myself at times)

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I would say moderate. I have enlarged pores/shallow icepicks, rolling and a couple deeper depressions. the deeper ones are at least 12yrs old. The rest i acquired between the ages of 24 and 26. I had bad break outs on and off when I was a teen. They came back full force at the age of 24. I went on accutane at 26 and scarred pretty bad from that. I will be 28 at the end of the month. Most of my scarring is shallow/uneven texture. It is just wide spread sprinkling on my cheeks and chin.

Good luck

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oh ok yeah i think mine are mild to moderate but mine are about

6months old, you reckon the laser will work better or bout the same

as with you??

and please someone answer whether they've had a scar start

deep like just over 1mm in depth and then through 3months

gone to a depth of 0.5mm or a tiny bit less.

because this is my case, in the very beginning it looked

super obvious, now its much less obvious

but i dont want the laser shedding the skin thats filled it

up to what i once saw it as

can that happen!?

or is my skin as it is, the point it will stay?

and will only improve with lasers??

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Isabella, the one thing to remember , what youth gives you, age will take away. As you get older your scars will worsen, so you want to deal with them and continue a good general skin routine, including sun block the rest of your life.

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Isabella if you have had such and improvement in the past 6 months maybe you should wait on a laser. definitly stay out of the sun no matter what because I think it inhibits collagen repair. You could follow I really good skin care regimen with exfoliation. You might be able to get them to the pt where only you notice them by simply taking care of your skin. Wait it out at least another 6 months. I have had scars that have improved to almost nothing with plain time. Accutane is what did a number on my skin. I am finally starting to get back some natural oils in my skin. If you are rating your scars as mild they might not be noticable to others. My skin is def. at least moderate. My scars arent disfiguring but face to face they are there. You arent going to shed skin with a fractionated laser. I am no expert but i think it stimulates collagen growth in the dermis. It will do some damage to your epidermis but that heals pretty quickly.

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Dudley, Yeah sadly thats true! When i treat them, the results will be permanent won't they?

5 years later I wont have what I started with will I...because it'll seem almost endless trying

to improve them. Say I get 50 or 60% with a treatment and 5 years goes by will i maintain that percent of improvement??

And yes I have a pimple every now and then, I use the contraceptive pill to control hormonal acne and Clindamycin for trouble spots and daily Neutrogena products: extra gentle cleaners, toner, moisturisers and SPF30+ Sunscreen for when i'm out and about.

I try enormously hard to have nice skin, its often reallly difficult :(

BTW I truly wish you well in all your treatments, I know how painful scars can be.

Kat, Yeah I have days when i can just accept them, and others where I want to hide in a hole to be honest, its the fact where they are on my face its straight when you look at me you can usually see them. I think I have to wait another 6months or perhaps more, because I have schooling soo by then my scars will be around 1year-20months old, so hopefully I can see the improvement I want. Also to you, all the best with treating your scars. After profractional are you going to use re:pair??

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For my last profractional I am going to follow a diet that supports collagen building through food and vitamens and use my led lights. I hope this will improve the percentage of change I get. I have 30% so far and I hope to be at about 45%. IT would be nice but I can expect to be at 40% When it is said and done. I want to have an 80% total improvent. So I am going to have do something else. I will wait untill next fall for this. It will be repair or some ohter method. I am interested in micro silicone and/or tca cross. One cheeck has small/shallow icepics scattered on it with some shallow depression. The other has moderated depth i would say. I am not sure if I would be a candidate for the injections. Maybe with one or two. I am not sure what size of icepics can be treated with tca cross. My icepics might be classified as scarred pores. I live two hrs north of nyc adn would have to travel there for that. I dont want to go for the consultation if I am not a canidate. I found a PS who does Re:pair an hr south of me. So when the time comes I will have to decide. I hate having to be stuck indoors for extended periods of time. My last profractional was 6days and it was hell. But anothere 30% would be worth it. I am going to wait at least a yr after my profractional and use a dermaroller inbetween to see where that gets me.

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Isabella, I can't comment on how long the effects last because I only started with Repair in May 2008. I am planning on a 3rd and possibly a 4th Repair so I won't have an answer to your question for years to come. Even after #4 I may go back for refreshers on a yearly basis. I was totally dissatisfied with Dermabrasion and regular CO2. I have forgotten a lot about the Dermabrasion(it was long ago), but it seems like the CO2 improvement only lasted a matter of months.

Kat123, the only procedure which is close to Repair is TotalFX. Until there is something better than Repair I won't switch. Both times after Repair I was able to travel on vacation in a week.

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Thanks for the info Dudley. In a yr I am going to evaluate and probably go for the repair. 1 wk isn't bad. With my last profractional I looked horrible for at least 6 days or more.

I wish I had researched more and found this site before going to a PS. After reading the amt of success you have had I would have found a Doc who used the repair. I could have had one with possibly more results and less money.

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Dudley, Oh ok most sites say the effects of lasers are permanent, disregarding ageing.

I would just be happy if I didnt have to make getting lasers an annual thing if it was every 5-6years I guess that would be better. Do they spot treat with Re:pair? I only have 2 troublesome

scars I really would find it a waste to do a full or half face treatment..

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Isabella, no laser will give you the results you want in one treatment. I believe Fraxel Repair has the superior delivery method. There is so much confusion about the different types of lasers, I have finally located the link to the Laser Specifications Table. This table compares Fraxel Repair, MixtoSX, Active FX and DeepFX only. I consider the non-ablative lasers ineffective. The doctors I have spoke with consider depth of penetration the key to helping acne scars. For your reference 700 Microns = .7mm. I hope this clears up some of the confusion about CO2 Ablative lasers. Anyone considering any of these lasers should bookmark this link.

http://www.mixtoskinresurfacing.com/downlo...heticTrends.pdf

_________________

That article you provided has major major errors in it. Most importantly it says DeepFx has an ablation depth of only .7mm. On the contrary Deepfx is the deepest fractional laser on the market going down 2mm safely. Fraxel Co2 only goes 1.6mm. Furthermore Deepfx provides most energy per pulse, you want a combination of depth and thermal energy for maximum scar revision. DeepFx offers this fraxel co2 is unable to come close to the thermal damage deepFX creates.

go to the link i provided below...page 8 shows depth

http://www.aesthetic.lumenis.com/pdf/PB-10...UPEnc_A2090.pdf

Edited by sanjoseskin

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SanJoeSkin, thanks for the link, I have seen those statistics, and have never figured out why the lower figure of .7mm is always stated. Logic would say 2mm. Here are some very hard to find stats to help understand DeepFX.

Energy Min Depth Max Depth

2.5 200 300

5 400 550

7.5 650 900

10 900 1200

15 1300 1700

17.5 1600 2000

20 2000 2500

22.5 2200 2500

25 2500 2800

27.5 2600 2900

30 2800 3000

*Data obtained using in-vivo human abdominal skin

Data courtesy of Jeffrey Kenkel, MD, FACS and the University of Texas South Western

Edited by DudleyDoRight

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SanJoeSkin, thanks for the link, I have seen those statistics, and have never figured out why the lower figure of .7mm is always stated. Logic would say 2mm. Here are some very hard to find stats to help understand DeepFX.

Energy Min Depth Max Depth

2.5 200 300

5 400 550

7.5 650 900

10 900 1200

15 1300 1700

17.5 1600 2000

20 2000 2500

22.5 2200 2500

25 2500 2800

27.5 2600 2900

30 2800 3000

*Data obtained using in-vivo human abdominal skin

Data courtesy of Jeffrey Kenkel, MD, FACS and the University of Texas South Western

So you are saying at 30 mJ min depth is 2.8mm and max is 3mm, is that how you are reading that?

Secondly which laser do you like personally and why?

I myself am interested in possibly getting fractional co2 done in the near future.

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3 mm would be insane, so insane that I have to question the validity of my own posting. Perhaps that is the theoretical maximum, and the laser is limited to 17.5 mj. That is another thing that I don't understand because 70mj Fraxel Repair has an ablation depth of 1.6mm. I have never found a good explanation of how this works. I have used Fraxel Repair 3 times at 70 mj - 60% coverage which is considered the maximum. My primary reason for using Repair was availability(only 3 miles away), and the early reports that Repair had the deepest penetration. Try to decipher the doctor talk on this link.

http://www.medicalspamd.com/physician-to-p...ian/post/458703

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3 mm would be insane, so insane that I have to question the validity of my own posting. Perhaps that is the theoretical maximum, and the laser is limited to 17.5 mj. That is another thing that I don't understand because 70mj Fraxel Repair has an ablation depth of 1.6mm. I have never found a good explanation of how this works. I have used Fraxel Repair 3 times at 70 mj - 60% coverage which is considered the maximum. My primary reason for using Repair was availability(only 3 miles away), and the early reports that Repair had the deepest penetration. Try to decipher the doctor talk on this link.

http://www.medicalspamd.com/physician-to-p...ian/post/458703

Actually i've read else were that infact DeepFX has the ability to go 3mm, but Lumenis safely reccomends 2mm. Thought this was in error, but I guess not. Anyway...which laser is limited to 17.5 mj? Deepfx goes way beyond 17.5 doesn't it? Where do you live? Also what were you confused on?

Edited by sanjoseskin

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