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oli girl

'Accutane debate placeholder thread'

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I had the "anti-accutane club" send me their propaganda through pm's as well, just ignore them, they are not worth wasting your time on.

As for flushing and redness, from the accutane diaries i've read some ppl have experienced this 8-9 months post-accutane.And like forsure said, its not as bad as the acne :)

*moderator edit* most people have indeed said the severe rosacea is alot worse than having acne, and i did message you but it was no propaganda, just some quotes from a politician *moderator edit*

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Trust me the accutane induced rosacea can be FAR worse. Before i went on an anti milarial drug to treat the accutane induced rosacea, i had full facial flushing with thread veins, nose swelling (the begining of nasal growth (think huge bulbus nose)) and even ear growth. YES that is possible with rosacea aswell.

People cannot imagine what other health issues are like untill they have suffered them. SOme people may only have minor blushing from accutane, so when you read that they believe it is nothign compared to acne, then yes their experience may not be. But with many people it is far worse.

Same goes for all the other tane induced problems.

As for the fairness in treating all Pro and Anti accutane forum members equally i remember a post from last summer where several of us anti accutan members were being flamed by pro accutaners. I don't remember any of them getting any form of regulating/punishment.

I understand being a mod, you have your own opinoin on things.... but i think when using a moderator account things need to be kept VERY nuetral unless it is involving friendly advice. People look at moderator accounts as being more knowledgeable and so often what they say, much like doctors in real life (bit different i know), is taken as factual and/or more accurate.

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No one knows what warnings are issued to other members unless the warned members choose to share that they've been warned. I don't see a rabid pro-Accutane person telling an anti-accutane poster that s/he got warned. And vice versa.

Rest assured there's quite a bit of nastiness and warnings on both sides, unseen by other members except those who posted the nastiness.

Please report posts that you feel violate the board rules. We're not here 24/7 and also can't read all posts.

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As for the fairness in treating all Pro and Anti accutane forum members equally i remember a post from last summer where several of us anti accutan members were being flamed by pro accutaners. I don't remember any of them getting any form of regulating/punishment.

I understand being a mod, you have your own opinoin on things.... but i think when using a moderator account things need to be kept VERY nuetral unless it is involving friendly advice. People look at moderator accounts as being more knowledgeable and so often what they say, much like doctors in real life (bit different i know), is taken as factual and/or more accurate.

I have no idea what post you are referring to. But if flaming is going on, always report the post. Don't assume that the mods see everything. Also, how do you know that those people did not receive warnings? Only mods can see the warning levels ....

All of the mods on this board do their best to keep things factual and even keel. In this debate, this cuts both ways.

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Rosacea being worse then acne...pick your poison, in severe cases both will be physically and emotionally scarring.

I don't agree with everyone and their dog gobbling down accutane tablets. It should be last resort for sever cases and long term adult acne only, when all other treatment fails. If you have a dermatologist that has a clue he won't put you on accutane without trying everything else first anyway.

And while on the subject of "most people". Most people have positive experiences with accutane. And thats why it is still the best treatment on the market for very stubborn acne. The severe side-effects affect a minority of people, like most other drugs.

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"Most people have positive experiences with accutane. And thats why it is still the best treatment on the market for very stubborn acne. The severe side-effects affect a minority of people, like most other drugs."

This is incorrect.

http://www.accutaneaction.com/adr/index.html#...

http://www.accutaneaction.com/adr/index.html#...

According to these documents less than 10% of serious injuries are reported to the FDA and less than 2-4% of non-serious injuries are reported.

Other names for Isotretinoin from other manufacturers: Claravis, Sotret, Amnesteem ,Decutan, Isotan, oratane, Roaccutane.

In this document, "Accutane",(isotreti noin), ranks #4 out of 500,000 pharma drugs on the market for adverse,(serious)side effect complaint list.

That is of course out of <10% that gets reported according to this document.

With this non-reporting loop-hole and the high ranking of adverse side effects compared to 500,000 other drug on the market,(from what has been reported), combined with the fact that it is a top selling drug for Roche, we can easily extrapulate that the injury rate for all injuries,(serious/non-serious) , is actually very high within the population.

Out of 500,000 pharma drugs "accutane" ranks #5 for severe psychiatric reactions and #10 for depression and suicides. Keep in mind that is for what gets reported by the percentages above.

http://www.topix.com/forum/drug/accutane/TVDQGNJO2E7BF4HLU

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Rosacea being worse then acne...pick your poison, in severe cases both will be physically and emotionally scarring.

I don't agree with everyone and their dog gobbling down accutane tablets. It should be last resort for sever cases and long term adult acne only, when all other treatment fails. If you have a dermatologist that has a clue he won't put you on accutane without trying everything else first anyway.

And while on the subject of "most people". Most people have positive experiences with accutane. And thats why it is still the best treatment on the market for very stubborn acne. The severe side-effects affect a minority of people, like most other drugs.

That is true, you have to pick your poison....

However I can't agree that "most people" have postive experinces. When I say that I mean that by saying very few get permanent remisson. I am not saying nobody does, just very few....some are okay with the outcome, some are not.

We are not a minorty to severe side effects, there are many people out there that do not post on this board. There were thousands on the ragfourm, thousands before that and thousands more out there. I am not saying everyone,

Alone in 2008 the FDA recorded 44 deaths, 120 pregnacies, That's not even counting the pregnacies not reported. That's not counting the other side effects reported. 30 physicans lost thier licenses to dispense accutane for falsifying I Pledge....This is just in the U.S., Yes, not all derms follow the guidelines when dispensing accutane. I know all to well... I should of never been put on it.

Unfortuantly not everyone believes that it can happen to them, some don't even believe the prescribing guidelines,or documented side effects, until it happens to them. Accutane is not like all other drugs, Yes, there are some dangerous ones...

But, It is only thoose that have been damaged by this drug that can truly understand what if feels like, for others it may be hard till it happens to you. (not saying it will)

Bottom line is you have to decide if you can live with the possiblity of permanent side effects, wether small or large... wether one or multiple. Just don't be niave.

good luck to all :D

oli girl

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Out of 500,000 pharma drugs "accutane" ranks #5 for severe psychiatric reactions and #10 for depression and suicides. Keep in mind that is for what gets reported by the percentages above.

Complete bs. There is no evidence Isotretinoin causes psychiatric reactions. Acne itself is the main depressant in most people suffering from it. If anything, Isotretinoin's effectiveness in treating acne makes it reduce depression.

That some greedy americans succeded in sucking money out of manufacturers of Isotretinoin after experiencing KNOWN side-effects proves nothing. It makes a great statement for you anti-accutaner's to keep throwing in peoples faces though...over and over like a broken record. Its beyond me why you are on here in the first place. You contribute nothing to acne.org and the people seeking help here.

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dude, accutane is directly harmful to the brain, i don't know how to explain it to you better than saying it is used in the treatment of brain cancer (neuroblastoma), and the congressman of michigan has been trying to create a registry for accutane's psychiatric side effects for years.

http://www.seniorfitness.com/Show_Disease_...reatic%20Cancer

"Accutane: Based on the need to inhibit pancreatic cancer cell division at different stages of its growth and induce apoptosis (programmed cell death) of cancer cells, multiple therapeutic modalities are often recommended. One successful treatment modality is to combine the differentiating-inducing drug Accutane (13-cis-retinoic acid) with other chemotherapy drugs, such as 5-FU. Both Accutane and 5-FU are toxic drugs that must be carefully administered by a medical oncologist. A combination of 13-cis-retinoic acid (Accutane) and interferon-alpha was tested in a Phase II trial of 22 patients with pancreatic cancer. One patient experienced partial remission and 14 patients demonstrated stable disease for about 5 months (Brembeck et al. 1998)."

“As we know, the FDA dropped the mandatory patient registry and certification of practitioners whose prescribe Accutane to prevent birth defects and psychiatric injuries. Once again, the FDA succumbed to Roche’s pressure and the registry and certification was abandoned. Each time the Advisory Committee made recommendations to limit the distribution and use of Accutane, Roche pressured the FDA to protect and increase its sales of Accutane. In fact, the latest defeat of the mandatory registry and certification will benefit Roche by approximately $450 million. After all the devastation this drug has caused teens!!!! What special powers or charm does Roche have with the FDA? Many are starting to ask that question.” It is time for this committee on behalf of the American people to “start asking that question” what is the special power or charm that has allowed Roche to market Accutane which has caused death and devastation among our young people?”

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Out of 500,000 pharma drugs "accutane" ranks #5 for severe psychiatric reactions and #10 for depression and suicides. Keep in mind that is for what gets reported by the percentages above.

Complete bs. There is no evidence Isotretinoin causes psychiatric reactions. Acne itself is the main depressant in most people suffering from it. If anything, Isotretinoin's effectiveness in treating acne makes it reduce depression.

That some greedy americans succeded in sucking money out of manufacturers of Isotretinoin after experiencing KNOWN side-effects proves nothing. It makes a great statement for you anti-accutaner's to keep throwing in peoples faces though...over and over like a broken record. Its beyond me why you are on here in the first place. You contribute nothing to acne.org and the people seeking help here.

I hate to tell you there are studies, In fact the doctor's that acutally figured out that the chemotherapy treating accutane could clear up acne, warned against this drug going on the market. If you like I will be more then glad to post studies that have been done.

This what I talking about Niave....

I would like you to tell the families of lost ones, (not just teens either) that it is complete B.S., I would like you to tell the families of thoose that do have severe sides effects that it is b.s., I like you to tell all the people who took accutane before warinings were on labels for accutane and were damged it is B.S.

http://www.house.gov/stupak/accutane.shtml

In Fact I will give you this link you tell Bart Stupak yourself, he has a email directly for Accutane....You tell him his son commiting suicide was B.S.

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not all derms follow the guidelines when dispensing accutane. I know all to well... I should of never been put on it.

Bottom line is you have to decide if you can live with the possiblity of permanent side effects, wether small or large... wether one or multiple. Just don't be niave.

How convenient, blame the doctor. Never mind that you had a responsibility to research what you were taking yourself, never mind that you were the one putting the "tane" in your mouth every day. If that doesn't qualify as naive i don't know what does.

Deciding between possible side-effects and clear skin is what these forums are here for. People screaming about death and deformity and the wrath of god does zip in aiding people in taking that decision.

IPledge is a joke, if you can't take steps to avoid pregnancy while on tane......well i doubt you have the intelligence to make a well thought out decision to take the drug in the first place. 44 deaths, so what?...coronary heart disease cause half a MILLION deaths in the US yearly, whats your thoughts on that? Ban hamburgers??

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you are a lost cause, it doesn't matter what we say, or prove, you will continue to stick your head in the sand, go away now

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Don't bother with your biased wall-o-text "research" posts jmiri, i don't read propaganda written to aid greedy people in their Isotretinoin lawsuits.

Yep, Isotretinoin is still used to treat certain types of cancer, which is why you should know what you are getting yourself into before taking it. I never claimed different.

you are a lost cause, it doesn't matter what we say, or prove, you will continue to stick your head in the sand, go away now
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Don't bother with your biased wall-o-text "research" posts jmiri, i don't read propaganda written to aid greedy people in their Isotretinoin lawsuits.

Yep, Isotretinoin is still used to treat certain types of cancer, which is why you should know what you are getting yourself into before taking it. I never claimed different.

you claimed it didn't cause psychiatric reactions big guy

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not all derms follow the guidelines when dispensing accutane. I know all to well... I should of never been put on it.

Bottom line is you have to decide if you can live with the possiblity of permanent side effects, wether small or large... wether one or multiple. Just don't be niave.

How convenient, blame the doctor. Never mind that you had a responsibility to research what you were taking yourself, never mind that you were the one putting the "tane" in your mouth every day. If that doesn't qualify as naive i don't know what does.

Deciding between possible side-effects and clear skin is what these forums are here for. People screaming about death and deformity and the wrath of god does zip in aiding people in taking that decision.

IPledge is a joke, if you can't take steps to avoid pregnancy while on tane......well i doubt you have the intelligence to make a well thought out decision to take the drug in the first place. 44 deaths, so what?...coronary heart disease cause half a MILLION deaths in the US yearly, whats your thoughts on that? Ban hamburgers??

You better be careful who u call niave, you better know thier story first. Yes, my husband is even a doctor,who himself thought it was only to be tetergenic and thought the same about the sooo called rare side effect, told me to listen to the derm cause they are doctors and knew best. He has since changed his mind on that one. No, I was not a member of acne.org before accutane, never heard of it till after. In fact I was one who put directly on accutane...when questioned was there any thing else, told no that accutane was the only thing to take my three skin colored cysts away....Really I don't owe u or anyone else an explnation.

So really people shouldn't believe thier derms when they say most common sides are dry lips and nose right?

There are millions before I pledge or the smart program that were not informed... Theese sides were not listed. Are they niave?

In fact my doctor will be joining number 31 sanctioned doctor by the FDA real soon, He will be another physican who will not be able to prescribe accutane real soon....

I will not run in circles, the facts are out there, You want the last word, you got it...I have better things to do.

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you claimed it didn't cause psychiatric reactions big guy

It doesn't. One dead U.S representative's son doesn't prove otherwise.

I am sorry you feel my writing is biased and one sided. Personally I do not believe you were ever on this medication, for every Accutane box you open there is a thick warning manual that explains the effects and or possible effects of Accutane. I have here next to me the book that was handed to me by the dermatologist stating the warnings and risks associated with this medication. I will be glad to take pictures and upload links here on this forum. It clearly says in bold that it causes psychiatric reactions.

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If thats all your dermatologist told you then yes, you should not have believed him. Doctors know best?? Out of all the disease doctors treat, how large a percentage do you think is acne related. I'd say in most cases the patient knows more about their own disease then most doctors. Dermatologist do NOT spend the majority of their time treating acne. The time to blindly trust your doctor to make the best decisions for you is over. With so much information available at the push of a mousebutton there is no excuse for staying uneducated about the treatments your dermatologist prescribes you.

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If they all come with that info, shouldn't people just take that into consideration and weigh out the pros and cons for themselves?

No.

If we take other medications such as Astras Iressa ( a cancer medication, just like Accutane ) that has an influence on a mechanism called the tyrosine kinase), that is sold to people with life-threatening conditions, it is still mentioned. The tyrosine kinase is one of the mechanisms that are affected by Accutane.

Cox2 inhibitors are discussed, such as Vioxx, and retinoic acid (Accutane) has an affect on cox2? Yes. there are studies pointing in that direction.

Vitamin A supplementing is mentioned, in regards to bonedensity, but also other issues, such as life expectancy.

If you have full information, which you don't nearly have today, it is questionable whether a young person should be allowed to take it. If you are adult, well, there should be nothing that can stop you, but I still think that there should be some regulations that stop you in the first place.

I believe in freedom with full information, freedom with too little information is not freedom, it is misleading!

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If thats all your dermatologist told you then yes, you should not have believed him. Doctors know best?? Out of all the disease doctors treat, how large a percentage do you think is acne related. I'd say in most cases the patient knows more about their own disease then most doctors. Dermatologist do NOT spend the majority of their time treating acne. The time to blindly trust your doctor to make the best decisions for you is over. With so much information available at the push of a mousebutton there is no excuse for staying uneducated about the treatments your dermatologist prescribes you.

Then really noone can debate what Roche prints w/ the medication guide, and dispute the depression or anything elese. The side effects alone are to make one depressed.

Like I said I am not repeating my story on here on the debate thread it is out there for you to read.

Having a physican for a husband you learn to trust your doctors, They do not believe looking on line for information. To be honest with you most medications have attorneys looking to sue. I thought that well some other drugs have some of theese warning also so, Had I of even known the controversy of this drug no, I wouldn't of.... I was not some young teen or adult that had time to sit and look up websites or blogs.... Although, now that I am ill I seem to have a lot of time.

C'est la vigne- You are correct, people should...... I totally agree....

Good night my debating is done....We all have are own opinions. Like I said until it happens to you, you will never understand.

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Where's the freedom in you telling others what to do?

I am informing the uninformed, I don't tell anyone what to do, but if people don't understand the real risks of the drug ( most don't ), then I will inform them with full information, it should be of interest, so they can stay away from the poison, and save their future

Where's the freedom in you telling others what to do?

but I still think that there should be some regulations that stop you in the first place.

There are. Why do you think you have to see a dermatologist in the first place.

Dermatologists do not have full information, some don't prescibe it anymore after learning of full information, they are mislead by Roche pharmaceuticals, Roche in the 90's created a scheme to 'prove' how safe accutane was to dermatologists

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Where's the freedom in you telling others what to do?

I am informing the uninformed, I don't tell anyone what to do, but if people don't understand the real risks of the drug ( most don't ), then I will inform them with full information, it should be of interest, so they can stay away from the poison, and save their future

But the information you're supplying is clearly biased. That's not helpful. Supplying information is one thing. Pushing your opinion (whether it's based on facts or not) is another.

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