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oli girl

'Accutane debate placeholder thread'

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nvapro, the only standard I have is fairness. Not once have I seen you offer advice other than you telling people they'll fall into some autoimmune demise and/or they're stupid and/or they must be working for Roche if they don't agree with you. If you want to edit all your posts, knock yourself out. I've tried being civil towards you. It doesn't work.

jmiri, the toxicity is a given. It's stated in the literature. There's no need for me to mention it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Where in the literature does it say you are poisoning yourself with vitamin A in order to get rid of acne?

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What are you people waiting for, rename this site proAccutane.org already.

Wynne you need to ask yourself why there is no mechanism presented for how Accutane works?

If you look at Roche's homepage www.roche.com they claim themselves to be the top researchers in cancer research. They have also done deep research in virology. They know lots about genetics.

Then they should easily know how Accutane works. But do they want to give this information to anyone? No.

Ask yourself why

It will phaze you when the dirty kept secret of Accutane's mechanism is revealed to the public.

Destructive is an understatement

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Where in the literature does it say you are poisoning yourself with vitamin A in order to get rid of acne?

Uh...it doesn't and I didn't say it did or should or will ever. That's your opinion.

http://www.rocheusa.com/products/accutane/...ne_MedGuide.pdf

The literature states that taking "Vitamin A in high doses has many of the same side effects as Accutane." Having said that, I'll repeat what other threads already have included: Vitamin A is NOT Accutane. Accutane is NOT vitamin A. Accutane is a derivative of vitamin A which means it does not possess all of the properties of the actual vitamin.

What is it you're looking for me to say or "admit" to, jmiri? That Accutane can harm people? Yes, I believe it can! I've never said otherwise. However, there are those that it does not harm. In fact, it has helped them. Some of you aren't willing to admit that the drug can actually help vs. harm, just as others aren't willing to admit that the drug harms vs. helps. That is why I did the brickwall emoticon. So please, do not try to put words into my mouth if you have no prior basis to do so.

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MANY medications' mechanism of action is unknown; that alone is not enough to worry me; daily I deal with and give out hundreds of medications whose primary mechanism of action is NOT known. That's just how it is and how it WILL be likely for many many more years for a huge number of drugs.

Accutane was originally developed for cancer. So?! It is precisely that 'fear' factor of the word itself, 'chemotherapy' that keeps Accutane's makers from widely advertising that Accutane was originally developed for treating cancer. Technically speaking though, ALL medications are chemotherapy, chemical therapy. Oncologists/oncology has however pre-empted that name and as cancer strikes fear into the hearts of many, so does the word chemotherapy. It is simply an emotionally loaded word that is used for biased purposes.

So many medications are developed for one thing and then through various means the medication is prescribed for something else, sometimes a completely different reason than for the medication's original reason for being developed.

I am now curious about accutane being described as a steroid and have emailed Roche asking them to answer the question. I cannot go by what is stated on a website that is extremely biased, and whose owner was banned from here for certain behaviors that are not acceptable on acne.org.

Those arguments about chemotherapy always come up by anti-accutane persons. It does not phase me, nor does the fact that its mechanism of action is unknown.

Yes, it has horrible side effects for some people. But yes, it has turned around other people's lives and made them happier and acne free again. I can't imagine the pain of living with something like acne conglobata or hidradenitis suppuritiva; Accutane is just about the last resort for those. If I myself had started Accutane earlier, no doubt I would not have very large scars on my cheeks. I cannot demonize Accutane as some do.

Here is Roche's response:

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your inquiry regarding ACCUTANE® (isotretinoin).

According to the prescribing information Accutane is not a steroid but a retinoid. Retiniods are a class of chemical compounds that are related chemically to vitamin A.

I have included the prescribing information for your review. I hope you find this information helpful. http://www.rocheusa.com/products/accutane/

Again, thank you for taking the time to contact us and we wish you good health.

Sincerely,

{name deleted by Wynne for protection of employee of Roche}

Similar end results do NOT in any way mean that mechanisms of action are similar, nor that the two compounds are related in any way.

Of course the anti-accutane posters are going to say "But that's from Roche, what do you expect?" But that's basic knowledge, that's what I say.

Steroids in and of themselves are not evil. They are life saving when used as prescribed. They have actually saved my life on at least two separate occasions. Once: intramuscular injection of 125mg Solumedrol in the midst of a severe asthma exacerbation with laryngeal edema. Second: dose pack (tapered) of prednisone for acute asthma exacerbation and pneumonia.

Steroids aren't bad when used correctly, however, if one has to be on them long term time they are bad and that is known fact.

I have no problem with someone with acne congoblata using accutane, my problem is that it is used out of it's guidelines all the time concerning acne. Derms hand it out like candy to teens and young adults. Some downplay the seriouness of the drug and aren't honest.

My problem is that Roche was not honest. They weren't honest when this drug first came out. They were forced to have the truth come out. How many lives were destroyed before the truth came out. It is common knowledge and can be read anywhere that roche has never been honest. Most every drug they have on the market is dangerous.

(there are many more pharmas out there just like them) how many pharma reps are actually honest when they speak to doctors about thier medication. How many doctors acutally research the drug they hand out, or read the insert. Not many, I been at quite a few lunches. Really why should anyone believe any pharma co.

Had I been told this was used for chemo, or had I told my husband to look this up on the database at the hosptial, or looked it up myself on line no way would I have taken this. My husband a doc. himself would said no way. I have said before even if I did end up okay no sides,I still be pissed to find out what I put in my body. I think after finding this site some of the antibotics are horrible they give out for acne. It be interseting to have a list of chemo drugs that are used for other non life threating conditions on a daily basis. curious at how many besides accutane there is.

How many drugs are out there named the 4th most dangerous drug used for a non life threating condition. Not many... Esspecially when half the time it doesn't even get rid of the acne for good. In fact I had the pharmacy give a insert of accutane recently one of it's side effects is acne....funny acne curing agent that causes acne.

It is pretty bad when the docs that orginally discovered this worked on acne, were against it coming out on the market to be used for acne, and urged that it didn't. google Frank Yoder.

I never said accutane was a steriod,It is a retinoid, The info I posted was from biochemistry website on vit a and retnic acid. u can decipher it how u like ...I was just stating max's site has information regarding vit a being consider a steroid.

Besides, it will only be a matter of time, either something better and safer will come out, or the fact that women are still getting pregnant and doctors are still handing out against guidelines it will taken off the market for acne use.

The truth is out there it's just people want a quick fix for thier acne or they want to take the chance in hopes thier acne will never come back. To only have it come back or have to use matience afterwards. This is exactly what Roche banked on happening and they won.

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jmiri, the toxicity is a given. It's stated in the literature. There's no need for me to mention it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

I'm going to quote myself and I will clarify. It is my fault that I assume most people will use common sense, read the literature, and know that taking so much vitamin A can be toxic. Just as taking a large dose of Accutane can be toxic. I do apologize for my mishap of wording because this is simply not the case. Do with my statement what you will.

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I'm the one that said accutane was a steroid. steroids have been classified as being a psycho stimulant for decades now (depression etc.) and were used as common practice in maintaining acne. i believe Roche has found a way to make a steroid without making a steroid by medical definition, admitting this would incriminate them in thousands of cases.

As for accutane being prescribed I think it could help out those serious cases. I've seen some pretty bad stuff here on this website, let me tell you. But for me to find out what I have had for years was a moderate to light case of acne vulgaris and to be prescribed to accutane without any tries at topical antibiotics or anything! that derm was just handing out prescriptions like candy. and ultimately took 5 years from my life time if not more. i can feel it inside, everyday.

Siava, you are one of us. I cant believe you dont feel it inside. And are fighting against us. Makes me want to just worry about myself and stop coming here to help others. But I know thats just temptation like the devil when he tried to convince Jesus in the garden to not go through with the crucifixion.

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What are you people waiting for, rename this site proAccutane.org already.

Wynne you need to ask yourself why there is no mechanism presented for how Accutane works?

If you look at Roche's homepage www.roche.com they claim themselves to be the top researchers in cancer research. They have also done deep research in virology. They know lots about genetics.

Then they should easily know how Accutane works. But do they want to give this information to anyone? No.

Ask yourself why

It will phaze you when the dirty kept secret of Accutane's mechanism is revealed to the public.

Destructive is an understatement

I have to agree w/ what jimiri says about roche and accutane.

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One of you? What are you talking about? I'm not fighting against you. I don't share your opinion, that's all. When someone uses scare tactics and accusations (and sometimes religion thrown in as a salt and pepper topping), that's when I have to step in as a mod and to be honest, in this section of the forum it gets old.

jmiri, when you mentioned that this site should be dubbed as an Accutane site, I wish I could persuade you that it's not meant to come across that way. For right now Accutane is a legal means of fighting acne, and it is a popular drug of choice by dermatologista and patients. In this sense, this is why there is a section on this forum for Accutane. If it were illegal, this section of the forum wouldn't be here, but it's not. It's legal, and it has helped so many, and so it will remain and support WILL be offered for those taking the drug.

eta: Venture OUT of this particular section of the site and you'll see that this community is so much more than just Accutane. You're closing yourself off inside a little bubble if you remain just in this section of the board.

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Where in the literature does it say you are poisoning yourself with vitamin A in order to get rid of acne?

Uh...it doesn't and I didn't say it did or should or will ever. That's your opinion.

http://www.rocheusa.com/products/accutane/...ne_MedGuide.pdf

The literature states that taking "Vitamin A in high doses has many of the same side effects as Accutane." Having said that, I'll repeat what other threads already have included: Vitamin A is NOT Accutane. Accutane is NOT vitamin A. Accutane is a derivative of vitamin A which means it does not possess all of the properties of the actual vitamin.

What is it you're looking for me to say or "admit" to, jmiri? That Accutane can harm people? Yes, I believe it can! I've never said otherwise. However, there are those that it does not harm. In fact, it has helped them. Some of you aren't willing to admit that the drug can actually help vs. harm, just as others aren't willing to admit that the drug harms vs. helps. That is why I did the brickwall emoticon. So please, do not try to put words into my mouth if you have no prior basis to do so.

My lord you need to do some more research. Below I'm going to quote a paragraph from an EXPERT.

Pharmacologist Dr. James O'Donnell gave a very informative presentation explaining the similar toxicology of Accutane and vitamin A during the first Accutane Congressional Hearing held on December 5th, 2000. Here are the most significant highlights,

"I am an Assistant Professor of Pharmacology at the Rush Medical College in Chicago, and I am also a licensed pharmacist. I do not hold any federal grants, although I have testified as an expert witness in matters against Roche. I would like to project my one slide, and leave it projected for the course of my comments. My review has included the basic pharmacology and toxicology of vitamin A, and if we can focus just on the top three chemical formulas there, from the audience you won't be able to see that, but please take my word that the three molecules of retinol (vitamin A), tretinoin (Retin-A), and isotretinoin (Accutane), are practically identical. As a chemist and a pharmacologist, looking at these three chemicals, not knowing anything different, you would predict the same actions, including the same toxicities."

it is not my opinion, it is a FACT!!! Accutane causes hypervitaminosis A, thats why everyone gets chapped lips on the drug and more

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I really do like being educated. No need to get snippy about it. Do you have a link for this? I'd like to read the entire article/review.

And jmiri, this does not have to be a battle. Every single time there's a new member that is anti-Accutane it turns into a freaking battle. Can you please understand how tiring this becomes?

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I really do like being educated. No need to get snippy about it. Do you have a link for this? I'd like to read the entire article/review.

And jmiri, this does not have to be a battle. Every single time there's a new member that is anti-Accutane it turns into a freaking battle. Can you please understand how tiring this becomes?

Siava if u want to read about the congressional hearing,and people that spoke it can be found on Bart Stupak's website, roaccutane action group website, and One that I found that has Dr. J O'donnell testimoney about accutane is on http://www.accutane-suicde-help.com/pages/odonnel.htm

have a great day

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Um...obviously when steroids are taken long term there can be side effects. Obviously. But there are illnesses that require steroids to be taken for long term if not for the rest of someone's life. ANY drug can cause side effects. And again, Accutane is NOT A STEROID.

ALL drugs are chemotherapy.

Some of you haven't bothered reading what I wrote above. I'm not surprised. I'm off elsewhere and shan't be visiting THIS thread again.

It's a shame that the original poster's question has been overcome by bickering.

PS: Original poster: I took Accutane in 1998 and have no residual long-term effects whatsoever.

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Accutane is not a steroid and steroids are not vitamin A or deriatives either. Nvapro, please get yourself educated on this subject. Take biochemistry or molecular biology. Both accutane and steroids have very different chemical structures- they are not even in the least similar in anyway in terms of the molecular structure. So how could things that are so different in structure be the same thing or related?

Also steroids are very broad and most of them actually become hormones when ingested into our body. Accutane does not and will only degrade down to a particular metabolite. For steroids, it can be made into different types of hormones that have different functions. I won't go into the details because it will get too long. Besides both steroids and accutane have different receptors so they will affect different cells. EVEN IF they do affect the same type of cells of similar receptors, because of the difference in structures, the receptor is able to recongnize it and trigger different signal transduction pathways.

And transcription is a word use to describe the reading of genetic material mainly DNA to be made into mRNA to be use further to make protein products your cell needs. It only happens with genetic material, nothing else. A chemical compound like steroid or accutane CANNOT undergo transcription.

Oli girl, I'm really surprised that you relate accutane to steroid("google retinoids there are many sites that retinoids are in the family of steriod family hormones.It is known that roaccutane,retnic acid , is a form of vitiman a, and is classified as a steroid") especially when your husband is a doctor. AND thyroid hormones and calcitriol are not steroid hormones! Thyroid hormones are made of tyrosine residues( a type of amino acid) while calcitriol is made up of vitamin D and another name for it is vitamin D3. Steroid hormones are called steroid hormones because they retain the four fuse ring structure which is unique to steroid. Anything that does not have the rings are no longer steriod or steroid hormones.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, just want to make sure that everyone get their facts right. And for those who post links to journals or research papers, please note that those research papers may or may not prove anything because they are still research(not facts) so it means it may not be right all the time, if another batch of scientists continue with the research and found something else, then the previous research paper is deemed as useless because the fact is wrong. This is especially true for papers that are more then 5 years old.

I'm outta here! Good luck to everyone.

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No one knows whats in accutane. Only what other people tell us is in accutane.

allright we know retinoid and steroid are two different chemical compounds.

but if you had done what i asked and just looked at the adverse reactions of taking high doses of anabolic steroids and compared them to the adverse reactions of taking high doses of retinol medication. they are almost identical exactly! except for retinoids decreases oil production in the sebaceous glands. steroids increases production. thats the only difference.

aaaa you guys dont care

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Accutane is not a steroid and steroids are not vitamin A or deriatives either. Nvapro, please get yourself educated on this subject. Take biochemistry or molecular biology. Both accutane and steroids have very different chemical structures- they are not even in the least similar in anyway in terms of the molecular structure. So how could things that are so different in structure be the same thing or related?

Also steroids are very broad and most of them actually become hormones when ingested into our body. Accutane does not and will only degrade down to a particular metabolite. For steroids, it can be made into different types of hormones that have different functions. I won't go into the details because it will get too long. Besides both steroids and accutane have different receptors so they will affect different cells. EVEN IF they do affect the same type of cells of similar receptors, because of the difference in structures, the receptor is able to recongnize it and trigger different signal transduction pathways.

And transcription is a word use to describe the reading of genetic material mainly DNA to be made into mRNA to be use further to make protein products your cell needs. It only happens with genetic material, nothing else. A chemical compound like steroid or accutane CANNOT undergo transcription.

Oli girl, I'm really surprised that you relate accutane to steroid("google retinoids there are many sites that retinoids are in the family of steriod family hormones.It is known that roaccutane,retnic acid , is a form of vitiman a, and is classified as a steroid") especially when your husband is a doctor. AND thyroid hormones and calcitriol are not steroid hormones! Thyroid hormones are made of tyrosine residues( a type of amino acid) while calcitriol is made up of vitamin D and another name for it is vitamin D3. Steroid hormones are called steroid hormones because they retain the four fuse ring structure which is unique to steroid. Anything that does not have the rings are no longer steriod or steroid hormones.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, just want to make sure that everyone get their facts right. And for those who post links to journals or research papers, please note that those research papers may or may not prove anything because they are still research(not facts) so it means it may not be right all the time, if another batch of scientists continue with the research and found something else, then the previous research paper is deemed as useless because the fact is wrong. This is especially true for papers that are more then 5 years old.

I'm outta here! Good luck to everyone.

maddy001- if you read all of my second post on this page, I said I wasn't saying accutane was a steroid. acutally there is connections w/retinoid receptors and certian hormone receptors, but I don't care to lay out the info.

It will always be a debate.

wynne- I respect u as a mod, but I don't believe every drug is a chemotherapy drug, maybe drugs that treat acne are and there may be some others out there. Unfortuantly I never really took any meds and the one time I did it was accutane and I shouldn't been put on it to begin with.

I do have to say though we have all once or another written in posts that accutane is a dangerous drug.

I hope everyone has a great holiday......

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yea im the one who said it was a steroid. everyone pointed out to me there is only a relation. but im sticking with it is a steroid because it is a hormone, mood altering substance. hey if i were studying biology and not sociology, i would be happy to put on a lab coat and break down the chemical compounds of accutane myself to find the relationship between retinoid and steroid. retinoid has to be new to the medical science field. i would put money on that it is not over 20 years old. Accutane has not been tested through the rigors of science nor its compatibility with other medication and thus problems arise in individuals.

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Yeah continue with the delusion that accutane is a steroid. It will just make you look silly. I'm just gonna say one more time accutane has no relation whatsoever to steroid and it is not a hormone. For god's sake, just take a look at the molecular structure and stop spreading wrong information around these boards. I saw that you have also spreaded this wrong info of yours to another thread.

And being the narrow-minded and stubborn person you are, I highly doubt that anyone will allow you to enter their lab to do research. Not that you are anyway since you are not studying science.

And what are you talking that accutane has not been tested through the rigors of science? All drugs are even before they are put out in the market. They were tested beforehand. The design of the drug, to the testing and monitoring are all part of pharmocodynamics and kinetics.

This thread has made me realised that some of you, in your bid to wage war against accutane, had posted some really ridiculous replies in which you are totally clueless. Get your facts straight before you pose an arguement.

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I agree with everyone who said that he didn't ask an opinion about his age. People need to be more respectful on these threads. While I may not agree with every decision a person makes, unless I'm asked, I have no right to state my opinion.

Good luck with your course! It was a hard decision for me to make but I decided to monitor myself and keep a close eye on how my body was responding.

We arent being disrespectful

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Hello! I want to add to this post because before I started Accutane, I was excited, afraid, hopeful and reading other people's posts about their experiences really eased my mind. I am 29 years old. I started suffering from severe cystic acne at 20. I had perfectly clear skin through my teen years and was suprised when I started breaking out as an adult. I tried everything from over the counter products to monthly skin peels and micro dermabrasion. The peels seemed to work. I wasn't completely clear, but at 26 (when I started the peels) it was the only thing that had an effect. I had laser treatment, which my doctor said would smooth my scarring and erase the red spots the acne had left behind. It only made my acne flare up worse than ever and after shelling out thousands of dollars, my skin was now to sensitive to undergo my peels. As a last resort, I begged for Accutane. I underwent a 6 month cycle of Accutane. 40MG twice a day.

My skin is now smooth and clear without a blemish in site! The only side effects I experienced were dry lips (eased by an over the counter miracle in a bottle called Aquaphor), slight mood swings during the first 2 months, and some hair loss. Ok, so the hair loss does seem kind of scary. I had what seemed like tongs of it coming out in the shower, but it wasn't noticable to other people.

Was it worth it? Absolutely! For the fist time in 9 years, I can go out without makeup and feel confident. The 6 months flew by! At first I didn't see a difference. My acne wasn't better, but it wasn't worse. At month 4, my skin started to clear. By month 5, my acne seemed like a bad dream.

Good Luck on your journey. I am so grateful for this medication and I hope that it works as well for you as it did for me.

I feel a lot more at ease after reading this. I go back to the derm in about a week with my final decision on whether or not to start accutane. I'd really like to know more about the hair loss though--does it grow back after accutane? And how bad is it? I'd just like to be able to picture how bad it gets. Thanks!

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I agree with everyone who said that he didn't ask an opinion about his age. People need to be more respectful on these threads. While I may not agree with every decision a person makes, unless I'm asked, I have no right to state my opinion.

Good luck with your course! It was a hard decision for me to make but I decided to monitor myself and keep a close eye on how my body was responding.

We arent being disrespectful

I disagree :)

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And a couple of things, for those saying it is a last resort problem, ive been trying things for about a month, my derm prescribed me on 2 antiobiotics, 5 gels, and nothing worked! so i figured i would try. but

WEEK 1-

it has been a weeek, and i have notices a lot of puss filled ones around my mouth (where i typaclly get them)

more on my forehead, which i never get,

and my typical acne near my sideburns.

no side effects, at all.

One month is nothing! Thats how long you should experiment with one product. Unbelievable, you ask if you think you are two young to take accutane, we tell you what we think and you completely ignored it

he never asked if he was too young to take accutane ... :rolleyes:

all he's doing is trying to keep a log. I looked over all of the posts and don't remember seeing anything in which he asked for anyone's opinion if 13 was too young to be taking the medicine.

It is his decision. Let it go.

Yeah well he is telling us about it so we have the right to express our thoughts on it.

I agree with everyone who said that he didn't ask an opinion about his age. People need to be more respectful on these threads. While I may not agree with every decision a person makes, unless I'm asked, I have no right to state my opinion.

Good luck with your course! It was a hard decision for me to make but I decided to monitor myself and keep a close eye on how my body was responding.

We arent being disrespectful

I disagree :)

Thats not an opinional thing

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Hey, y'all!

Amentola, I wish you good luck, and if it works, you better tell me!!! (I am also 13). I feel a little shy to ask about getting that stuff from a doctor, cause I went once and they kinda suggested that I was being a bit overdramatic and my acne wasn't 'serious'. Whatever. Any acne is serious, right? Just because its not completely over my face, its clearly not just one or two pimples like other kids.

Guys, if his doctor said he could use it, then I guess he can. Yeah, there will be side effects but this has been taken into consideration I am sure. The doctor doesn't want to be, like, sued by this kid's mom or something. So its fine.

If u live in the U.S. you sign a papers, so if you get permanent sides there is no suing ur doctor. So really the doctor doesn't worry to much about that anymore.

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And a couple of things, for those saying it is a last resort problem, ive been trying things for about a month, my derm prescribed me on 2 antiobiotics, 5 gels, and nothing worked! so i figured i would try. but

WEEK 1-

it has been a weeek, and i have notices a lot of puss filled ones around my mouth (where i typaclly get them)

more on my forehead, which i never get,

and my typical acne near my sideburns.

no side effects, at all.

One month is nothing! Thats how long you should experiment with one product. Unbelievable, you ask if you think you are two young to take accutane, we tell you what we think and you completely ignored it

he never asked if he was too young to take accutane ... :rolleyes:

all he's doing is trying to keep a log. I looked over all of the posts and don't remember seeing anything in which he asked for anyone's opinion if 13 was too young to be taking the medicine.

It is his decision. Let it go.

Yeah well he is telling us about it so we have the right to express our thoughts on it.

I agree with everyone who said that he didn't ask an opinion about his age. People need to be more respectful on these threads. While I may not agree with every decision a person makes, unless I'm asked, I have no right to state my opinion.

Good luck with your course! It was a hard decision for me to make but I decided to monitor myself and keep a close eye on how my body was responding.

We arent being disrespectful

I disagree :)

Thats not an opinional thing

not meaning to be disrespectful, but you completely misrepresented and bashed him in your post where you said he was asking for peoples opinion of him being too young. Expressing your thoughts are one thing. Accusing him (which you did) is another.

Like I said, let it go.

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