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I have always thought that it should be better to 'spread' out the intake throughout the day

Test and see for yourself. My suspicion is that having a successful melatonin surge at night probably makes much more difference than small details related to supplements.

I did the following experiment. I took 210mg zinc/day, spread out in 30mg pills. All new acne was completely halted, as I expected. While I was clear, my sleep cycle was disrupted. To the best of my ability to control things, this was the only significant change. I still got >=9 hours sleep each night. I still slept in darkness via a sleep mask. But I didn't go to bed at the same time every night (varied as much as 4 hours difference). I tossed and turned all night. And sometimes I woke up in the middle of the night, couldn't sleep, watched TV a bit (destroying any melatonin surge) before going back to sleep. The result was, I started getting acne (within 24-48 hours of disrupted sleep), even while taking a large dose of zinc.

My experience continues to suggest to me that the nocturnal melatonin surge is both crucial and can be hard to control. If you just focus on hours of sleep logged, you miss the point. I was always getting >=9 hours sleep even when I'm pretty sure I was disrupting the normal melatonin curve by varying the bedtime or getting light exposure in the middle of the night.

If you want to focus on details, I would suggest the exact details of your sleep cycle and the quality of sleep (the only handy, albeit subjective, indicator of the nightly melatonin surge) may be more productive things to focus on than small details about the relevant supplements.

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But, I'm curious, do you keep improving with "zinc"? Do you have breakouts, and that's the reason you have to look for something else (Vitamine D...). Please, let us know your situation actually.

I swear, the next draft will use a different name instead of "zinc regimen". Maybe something like "circadian anti-oxidant hormone and enzyme regimen", so people can avoid fixating on the zinc pill aspect. :D Zinc is what led me down this path through a series of attempts to model the disease. Zinc metabolism is the hub of my current theory. But to orchestrate zinc metabolism requires, well, an orchestra of actions. Thus, there's data to suggest that low Vitamin D levels may make it harder for you to metabolize zinc. Since I've had high D levels for years and most people don't, I can't tell whether that might be crucial, so that's why it's in the regimen.

If I follow my regimen, I stay free of acne AFAICT. I continue to experiment because I want to understand exactly what matters and why. I would like to eat ice cream again; if I improve my understanding of how acne works, that might be possible. I would like to take no zinc supplement at all, because I suspect there's enough in my diet. Again, if I improve my understanding, that might be possible. Most of all, I would like to find the fewest/simplest actions required to dramatically reduce acne in other adult sufferers, since that's the only way to confirm that I've actually understood anything about the disease at all.

And you say you are not a doctor, but probably you have a degree in another career, please let me know if you don't mind.

My degree is in electrical engineering. But hopefully you'll look at ideas, not degrees. Test this regimen, if it helps or hurts, please let me know so I have more information to think about. I'm not trying to sell my ideas; I'm trying to learn. :D

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Look at it this way, if you go to McDonald's to eat, and have a 32 oz. Coke with your meal, you're going to have acne. No amount of megadosing on anything is going to combat that.

Sorry, I've done exactly that every day and been acne-free for weeks at a time.

That kind of "I know if anyone does X they'll get acne" shows a complete failure to grasp how little is understood about the disease and how the symptoms can be made to correlate with everything and nothing at all. If sugar has some ability to influence symptoms, it absolutely positively cannot be a simple relationship for most acne sufferers -- unless you blithely ignore the evidence of real people's experiences.

Meh, get off your high horse, I've had acne for 28 years now. I've got plenty of "experience", my own!

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That kind of "I know if anyone does X they'll get acne" shows a complete failure to grasp how little is understood about the disease and how the symptoms can be made to correlate with everything and nothing at all. If sugar has some ability to influence symptoms, it absolutely positively cannot be a simple relationship for most acne sufferers -- unless you blithely ignore the evidence of real people's experiences.

Well, you are right in that it isn't simple. Acne is a multifactoral condition and you can fool with all kinds of factors and get some results. The easiest and safest thing to fool with is diet which can not only clear your skin, but retard aging and the development of all kinds of diseases, improve your immune system and help you keep your hair.

And you know that sugar does influence symptoms. You said so in one of your first posts on these experiments. Followed by the phrase 'but I can't give up my carbs'. It influences symptoms in several ways as a matter of fact, such as inflammation, androgen production and nutrient deficiency.

I have quite a bit of experience too. And I've listened to a lot of people's expereince. This would be why I tried zinc over 4 years ago. And it was from listening to the experiences of many others that made me change my diet and led to clear skin. And I'm quite positive that it was the elimination of coca cola, formerly my addiction, that had by far the biggest impact on clearing my skin. I'm not interested in testing that though.

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This might be a really silly question, databased, but what about a melatonin-pill? Wouldn't that help? (sorry if this is amazingly obvious, I just haven't got a clue)

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Well I am no doctor either but I do think your zinc intake may be a little too high. Check out these websites

\\http://www.zinc.org/zinc_health.html

\\http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B7GJC-4J9X2TV-1&_user=10&_rdoc=1&_fmt=&_orig=search&_sort=d&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=e0eaaa91abe863bc2742e78def019c63

(sorry about the slashes in front, I'm new here, don't know how to post links)

Now don't get me wrong, I find your research really creative and I really think you're onto something. Also, I'm not sure if you're zinc deficient, in which case I guess this post is irrelevant. Just be careful, bro.

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Guest

hhhhh

Edited by Guest
mistakes
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Is 100mg of zinc/day okay? I take 50mg in morning and 50 at night. If I continued this for a while.. should I level it off after a while? And after how long? And to what amount. And.. would my acne come back?

Haha I'm just loaded with questions (:

Thanks for your experience/research.

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This might be a really silly question, databased, but what about a melatonin-pill? Wouldn't that help? (sorry if this is amazingly obvious, I just haven't got a clue)

You can't get the volume of melatonin that the pineal gland pumps out when there's a normal night cycle.

hhhhhhttp://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9933863

Another big difference between neo-Paleolithic tribes and the West.

The idea that EMF suppresses melatonin in humans currently has little credibility.

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Is 100mg of zinc/day okay? I take 50mg in morning and 50 at night. If I continued this for a while.. should I level it off after a while? And after how long? And to what amount. And.. would my acne come back?

100mg zinc/day has been used for up to a year in research.

If it completely relieves your symptoms, then why not drop the dose as

much as possible?

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How weird: this thread seems to be appearing also in "Nutrition & holistic health", in addition to the Adult section it was started in. Maybe it's just my browser.

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i think it was moved to nutrition & holistic health by a mod due to the content mainly discussing nutrition / supplements. however, its not the usual cut & paste, but a copy & paste which is not commonly used in forums but is more 'friendly' in that sense.

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Alright, question Databased:

I've decided to go on the Zinc regimen to see if it can finally push me over the edge to completely clear skin. I ordered some of that Now Brand Zinc Picolinate and my question is this:

I generally eat a big meal at night before I go to sleep. Because I have cut dairy out of my diet, I always take two calcium tablets. I generally take them with my meals. When exactly should I take the Zinc? I'm planning on taking 50mg a day (1 pill). Thanks in advance.

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When exactly should I take the Zinc?

Just before bedtime, on an empty stomach. The zinc pill ensures you

have enough available for making zinc super oxide dismutase. But

that still won't happen if you don't normalize your melatonin cycle.

If you want to see a quick miracle, keep your eyes in outdoor lighting

all day, and in darkness all night while you sleep at the same time

every night for >8 hours. In fact, if you eat a normal amount of meat,

taking a zinc pill is probably much less important than effectively suppressing

melatonin during the day, and having a normal surge at night.

Sunglasses are a real bad idea for people who want to be healthy, IMHO.

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Hi Databased,

Have read a lot abt your regimen and I want to start using it right away. You are doing a great service to help us.

I have moderate acne and have suffered from it from years now. Currently 27 years -M and have been prescribed doxycycline 100mg twice daily. Started this 3 days ago.

I would like to follow your regimen as closely as possible.

I just bought Acnacare and I would like your advice on it, if it fits the bill or not.

It contains

Composition: Each capsule contains

APC complex TM Consisting of 600 mg

Methionine- bound Zinc Complex 75.00 mg

Providing Zn 15.00 mg

Ascorbic Acid 60.00 mg

D. Salina extract 20.00 mg

Providing mixed carotenoids 6.00 mg

D-alpha-tocopheryl acetate 11.53 mg

Equivalent to natural vitamin E 15 IU

Chromium Picolinate 1.04 mg

Providing Cr 0.13 mg

I'm supposed to take 1 capsule 3 times daily with meals.

Will this help me in sticking to your regimen. I know Vitamin D3 is not present in the above, but I live in India and hopefully I am receiving enough, tho I will try to doing a blood test for this.

Please reply. And thanks again!

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br4d the supplement you listed looks very good. you'll be getting a lot of zinc and chromium, i think you should get a b-complex supplement as well to maximize the effect.

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When exactly should I take the Zinc?

Just before bedtime, on an empty stomach. The zinc pill ensures you

have enough available for making zinc super oxide dismutase. But

that still won't happen if you don't normalize your melatonin cycle.

If you want to see a quick miracle, keep your eyes in outdoor lighting

all day, and in darkness all night while you sleep at the same time

every night for >8 hours. In fact, if you eat a normal amount of meat,

taking a zinc pill is probably much less important than effectively suppressing

melatonin during the day, and having a normal surge at night.

Sunglasses are a real bad idea for people who want to be healthy, IMHO.

Whatttt? I don't know about you but I throw up and feel sick for hours if I take Zinc on an empty stomach. I've taken it during a meal and ended up vomiting it all. I have to wait awhile after I completely ate for no stomach problems.

p.s- you seem too intelligent to be eating fast food! i mean that as a compliment btw

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Swits thanks for your reply.

It has Vitamin B6 - 2 mg though listed inside the box. Is that ok? or should I take a separate B complex supplement

Here's the inside details for Acnacare

Each softgel capsule contains :

APC Complex 600mg

Consisting of

Vitamin C 60mg

Vitamin A 2500IU

Natural Vitamin E 15IU

Chromium (As Chromium Picolinate) 130mcg

Zinc (As Methionine bound Zinc Complex) 15mg

Vitamin B6 2mg

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I just bought Acnacare and I would like your advice on it, if it fits the bill or not.

I would rather have the zinc separate so it can be taken alone on

an empty stomach just before bedtime, but it may not matter that

much. More vitamin B6 might be nice, but you may get enough in your

diet. The selenium pill I referenced would be nice. Selenium is a rare

case where I feel safer taking a pill over food; you really can poison

yourself just by eating the wrong daily amount of Brazil nuts.

Unfortunately, living in India can't be presumed to indicate you're

getting enough Vitamin D. Finding 70% are deficient even in a rural

lifestyle in India has stimulated a call for nationwide Vitamin D

fortification.

I suspect your overall relationship to light holds more power over

your symptoms than the exact detail of this pill. It would be interesting

to see what happens if you could get sunlight in your eyes for

most of each day and sleep long and soundly in total darkness each

night for a week. If you have dark colored eyes (e.g., brown) that

makes it less likely you are able to effectively suppress daytime

melatonin if you are spending most of your day indoors in artificial

light. Both halves of the melatonin cycle (daytime suppression, followed

by nighttime surge) may be crucial to acne symptoms.

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Whatttt? I don't know about you but I throw up and feel sick for hours if I take Zinc on an empty stomach. I've taken it during a meal and ended up vomiting it all. I have to wait awhile after I completely ate for no stomach problems.

That's an unfortunate sensitivity. Difficulty with taking zinc has

largely disappeared from acne studies since they stopped using

zinc sulfate and switched to one of the many less harsh alternatives,

such as zinc gluconate or zinc picolinate. YMMV.

p.s- you seem too intelligent to be eating fast food! i mean that as a compliment btw

I'm not among the folks who believe they know "the healthy" way

to eat. Anybody who thinks a McDonald's hamburger is not nutritious

has to ignore a lot of scientific facts, and elevate a lot of weak (observational)

data to much more importance than it has earned so far. Heck, we

don't even know how to alter diet to achieve long-term weight loss,

though people regularly claim it's "common sense", in ignorance of every

single long-term weight-loss study that's been done. The studies keep

revealing our ignorance, and people keep on ignoring them.

I suspect there's a reason Dr. Phil never appeared shirtless on the

cover of any of his diet books. :D

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Whatttt? I don't know about you but I throw up and feel sick for hours if I take Zinc on an empty stomach. I've taken it during a meal and ended up vomiting it all. I have to wait awhile after I completely ate for no stomach problems.

That's an unfortunate sensitivity. Difficulty with taking zinc has

largely disappeared from acne studies since they stopped using

zinc sulfate and switched to one of the many less harsh alternatives,

such as zinc gluconate or zinc picolinate. YMMV.

p.s- you seem too intelligent to be eating fast food! i mean that as a compliment btw

I'm not among the folks who believe they know "the healthy" way

to eat. Anybody who thinks a McDonald's hamburger is not nutritious

has to ignore a lot of scientific facts, and elevate a lot of weak (observational)

data to much more importance than it has earned so far. Heck, we

don't even know how to alter diet to achieve long-term weight loss,

though people regularly claim it's "common sense", in ignorance of every

single long-term weight-loss study that's been done. The studies keep

revealing our ignorance, and people keep on ignoring them.

I suspect there's a reason Dr. Phil never appeared shirtless on the

cover of any of his diet books. :D

I take Spring Natural's zinc gluconate. Would you suggest something different? Aw, come on, you know that Mcdonalds or any fast food is not healthy to be eating. I stopped eating it after I read the online ingredient list. But there is a long-term weight loss plan everyone can learn about and I would say that is the food pyramid. Atleast it's somewhere to start. Ick, Dr. Phil is someone I despise. I try and stick with this for glowing skin here

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I take Spring Natural's zinc gluconate. Would you suggest something different?

If I had such a sensitivity to any pill, I would try other formulations to

see if I could find one I didn't have a reaction to. It's possible you have

a particular sensitivity to zinc itself. Due to the unique nature of the

nausea, it's not impossible it's "all in your head", which is to say you've

developed a conditioned response that induces nausea when your brain

decides you're consuming zinc. Humans are really good at that, what with

the gigantic set of neurons connecting the brain directly to the "second brain"

in the intestines and vice versa. Makes it so we don't actually even

have to eat the mushroom and get sick to learn, we can just smell

the mushroom, be near someone else vomiting, and learn the

conditioned nausea response. It's why chemo patients are

warned to avoid their favorite foods, since their sight,

smell, and taste may forever be conditioned to produce nausea.

I would at least test the picolinate form. I can't take an aspirin on

an empty stomach without nausea, but I can take 180mg of zinc

picolinate on an empty stomach with no problem. I also find that

gelcaps make it less likely for me to develop any discomfort taking

any particular pill (well, so long as one doesn't rupture in the bottle

and give all the others the sight/smell/taste of the chemical anyway).

YMMV.

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