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mr. matt

Man in the Mirror: Pre and Post Subcision Photos

DAMN. NEED update

O.K. It's been almost two years since my Pearl Fractional laser treatment and over two years (I believe) since my last subcision treatment.

I did a 25% TCA peel this July and peeled like a snake! It was amazing to see how much skin came off my face - good thing I was on vacation. I was kind of scary looking. :confused:

By way of reminder, I've had three subcision treatments, one TCA Cross treatment, numerous at home chemical peels (glycolic and lactic acid), and many dermarolling sessions.

I also found a product called Reviva Labs Alpha Lipoic Acid Vitamin C Ester and DMAE Cream -- 2 oz. Dr. Perracone had recommended these ingredients in one of his books and I found a similar product on vitacost.com dirt cheap. The vast majority of the reviews were very positive and I was pleased with the results and will continue to use this product.

I am scheduled to have my fourth round of subcision on December 16, 2011. I have a few scars that still bother me. My skin looks much smoother than when I started on this journey - not perfect, but oh so much better! People no longer study my face while they are talking to me, so I think my scarring has diminished enough to account for this.

I may post some more pictures to get you an idea of how my skin looks today.

Best wishes to you all on this sometimes frustrating journey. Hang in there!

Matt

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good to hear your getting nice improvement!! :angel: and gl with ur next one..from all that im reading online about subcision it seems like a very effective treatment...quick question how long did u wait after tane to treat your scars?

Edited by waitingforacure

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good to hear your getting nice improvement!! :angel: and gl with ur next one..from all that im reading online about subcision it seems like a very effective treatment...quick question how long did u wait after tane to treat your scars?

I had my first subcision treatment at least two to three years after my last round of Accutane.

I'm a firm believer that subcision is the way to go if you have tethered scars......

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good to hear your getting nice improvement!! :angel: and gl with ur next one..from all that im reading online about subcision it seems like a very effective treatment...quick question how long did u wait after tane to treat your scars?

I had my first subcision treatment at least two to three years after my last round of Accutane.

I'm a firm believer that subcision is the way to go if you have tethered scars......

when you stretched your scars before subcision, did they disappear? Mine do, but they look kind of similar to some of your before pics. I've had two different derms tell me they recommended laser and not subcision, said subcision would likely create more scarring. They said it would look good temporarily then come back. One even said he has done subcision before but just didn't think it would work on mine. However, fillers don't seem to work great on me either, they might the first few days from swelling, but then not much improvement. Swelling is honestly the only thing that has made my scars look good. Time has helped some as well, but not totally. Maybe i should drive to Columbia, it's only an hour and a half.... :think:

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They said it would look good temporarily then come back

..damn

matt, has your skin condition changed after your 30 days post-subcision-photos?

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They said it would look good temporarily then come back

matt, has your skin condition changed after your 30 days post-subcision-photos?

I'll post some additional photos in a couple of weeks and you can judge for yourself. The scar and collagen remodeling process continues for up to six months after the subcision procedure.

It's a very gradual process - at least, it has been in my situation. I had the most dramatic improvement after my first subcision treatment - I could hear the scars snapping as my doctor subcised the scar tissue. It was a very rewarding sound to hear!

Hopefully, these last three or four scars will improve with this next treatment. Fillers will be my final option. But with two high school age kids in my house attending private schools and one getting ready to go to college, it may be a while before I can afford to do fillers.

In the meantime, I'm still doing the dermarolling routine every 42 days and hope to do another 25% TCA cross either at Christmas or sometime during the spring.

I'm determined to try to improve my complexion as much as I can.

Matt

Edited by mr. matt

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Matt, Congratulations on your improvement!

I clicked the link for the vit. C recipe and I'm wondering where to get HA and propylene glycol?

My doctor discouraged me from making my own vitamin C serum because it breaks down so quickly (oxidizes) and could possibly damage my skin. I think that this may have been some sound advice.

So, I went online and found a product through Vitacost.com made by Reviva Labs that is dirt cheap and contains ester C in a stable form along with alpha lipoic acid. You can purchase hylauronic acid through the web in power form and add it to the Reviva Labs product.

After a dermarolling session, I typically apply my Retin-A cream along with the Reviva Labs product to help ensure deeper penetration.

Hope this helps.

Matt

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Just a quick update - I'm scheduled to go in for my fourth round of subcision on Friday, December 16, 2011. I have a few scars that either weren't treated or didn't respond well to previous treatments that I want subcised next month. It's been almost three years since my first subcision and two years since my last Pearl Fractional Laser treatment.

I read on one of the threads about a study involving the use of suction cups used on the skin within the first week or two after subcision to help prevent the scar tissue from re-attaching. I'm planning on trying this and will let you know if I notice any difference or not.

I did another dermarolling session on my face this evening with a 1.5 mm roller. Even with 5% Lidocaine provided by my dermatologist, it was still a bit painful especially as I got closer to my nose and my eyes. My wife thinks I'm crazy to still be dermarolling as she thinks my skin looks fine now. My younger brother has also commented how much smoother my skin looks.

Folks, this is a g-r-a-d-u-a-l process that takes time. I've said this before - filling in acne scars with new collagen is like filling a swimming pool with a small hose. It takes a while for the craters to fill.

I've been very pleased with the results that I have had with the subcision, TCA Cross Method, laser, dermarolling, and chemical peels that I've had.

Again, I don't have perfect skin, but the man that I see in the mirror has a much better complexion than he did three years ago. For me, the rear view mirror in my car is the most unforgiving as the light tends to magnify any imperfections in my skin. Now, after all of these treatments, I can look in my rear view mirror and I no longer 'wince' at my reflection. The same holds true for the unforgiving lights in our restrooms at work. Before all of these treatments, I avoided looking at my reflection in the mirror because my skin looked so awful.

I think it is really important to document your journey and progress with photos. When I look back at my 'pre-treatment' photos and photos taken months after my treatments, I can definitely see a difference in how my skin looks.

Thankfully, I learned about subcision, antioxidants, red light therapy, and so many other ways to improve my skin from reading others' insights on this website.

I want to encourage each of you to continue on your individual journey and to never give up hope.

Matt

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Hey Matt, thanks for the update. I would like to echo mooboo119 here because his question wasn't answered yet. Basically, will subcision work for very shallow scars that can only be seen in certain lights? I have heard conflicting reports. Some people have said very shallow scars are the ones that improved the most, while others say that subcision on shallow scarring will cause more trouble than good. Again, thanks!

QUOTE (mr. matt @ Apr 2 2010, 03:12 PM)

QUOTE (chee6119 @ Apr 2 2010, 11:53 AM)

Hi Matt,

what size dermaroller do you use? is it the 1.5 mm? i just order a 1.5 mm one and dont know how long it takes to heal after you roll.

I started with the 1.5mm and just "upgraded" to the 2.0mm.

My face has undergone so many procedures (i.e. peels, three subcision treatments, four laser treatments, etc.) that it tends to heal very quickly.

After my first dermarolling session, I had some small pin-sized dots on my face from the blood that oozed out that lasted for two days. The redness disappeared overnight each time I've done a dermarolling session.

It's not for the faint of heart. It does hurt, but I really feel that the results are worth it.

I wait about six weeks between treatments to allow my skin to recover before doing another session.

Hope this helps.

Matt

Thanks, Matt!

yeah, i think i'll have to stay at home for 4-5 days after each treatment of Rolling ninja.gif . I will order Terproline cream and LED lights to help skin heal better. I learned this technique from Lamarr (a member of acne.org) that had much success with dermaroller. Oh, btw... i have 4 super shallow rolling saucer shape scars that only can be seen with certain lighting, it's shallow but wide...i'd say 1/3 of an inch wide. do you think subcision would help? I have been getting saline subcision in fullerton california. What the doctor does is that he injects saline solution (salt water) under each depress scar to break up the fibrous tissue that is holding down the scar and the solution then creates a blood clot for a couple days, and the saline is suppose to promote collagen-the skin is suppose to stay leveled for about a week and when the saline goes away, your scar is suppose improve (not as depressed). So far i got 2 treatments out of the 6, and i only see... 15% improvement so far. If rolling and everythign else fails... i think i'll go for subcision... but possibly after graduate school (in 3 years). :/ im still a poor college student.

All this scarring happened when i broke out in october 2009 (6 months ago) and I am so self conscious and depressed about it where i've been avoiding lots of social events... i feel as if i threw away my life. everywhere you look, you see people with normal looking skin, and if you see anyone with scars, its super less where it doesnt even effect the way they look. I was wondering how do you cope with it(life with imperfections and scars) before you had your successful procedure.

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Hey Matt, thanks for the update. I would like to echo mooboo119 here because his question wasn't answered yet. Basically, will subcision work for very shallow scars that can only be seen in certain lights? I have heard conflicting reports. Some people have said very shallow scars are the ones that improved the most, while others say that subcision on shallow scarring will cause more trouble than good. Again, thanks!

In my experience, the deeper the scar, the better subcision works.

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December 16, 2011 - Subcision Round Four

I just returned from my dermatologist's office where I had my fourth and, hopefully, my last round of subcision.

The nurse started the visit by asking me to look into a mirror and circle the areas that I wanted treated and to rate my improvement from the last round of subcision.

Next, the doctor came in and injected my face with several shots of anesthetic which was the only painful part of the procedure. He treated several areas on my left and right cheeks. I have to tell you that I heard a lot of 'snapping' during the procedure which surprised the nurse because my face looked relatively smooth before the procedure.

I counted four spots that I wanted treat mainly on my upper cheek bones that were still visible and I think that my doctor did others that he noticed that I didn't circle. Of all the subcision treatments that I've had, this was the one where I heard the most 'popping and snapping' noises, so I am cautiously optimistic that I may experience more improvement that I had expected.

Right now, my left and right cheeks are completely covered with guaze and surgical tape: I look like a mummy from a horror movie. LOL.

I was instructed to apply pressure/ice packs to my face to help stop the bleeding and bruising over the next two days.

I am also going to use 'suction cups' to on my face over the course of the next week to see if this helps prevent the fibrous bands from re-attaching to the epidermis; we'll see if this makes any difference or not.

I will be sure to post photos in about four to six weeks as I believe that 'before and after' photos are the only way to truly assess how much progress a person has made. You can't rely on memory as your skin changes very slowly over time.

I am so grateful that I learned about this procedure from others on this website.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Everyone!!!!

Matt

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From what I've read, the way the suction technique study was conducted was with a microdermabrasion suction device. So, I'd imagine that just a suction cup would have a hard time duplicating those results. There are a few home microdermabrasion machines that look promising...

https://www.nubrilli...CFUTc4Aodvz0FlQ.

http://www.crystalift.com/

http://www.activefor...-system-_-53653

...The first two you can try before you buy so that would be perfect if you just wanted to use the machine right after your subcision.

Keyboard vacuums could probably work as well and they are much cheaper. Of course, you'd need to find one with good suction power though.

http://www.amazon.co...m/dp/B000FE99SU

For those interested in the subcision-suction study...

http://onlinelibrary...10.03711.x/full

Edited by kidrock29520

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I wanted to provide a brief update since I had my fourth subcision treatment on 12.16.11.

I decided to try to the 'suction' method that KidRock29520 mentioned above and I've been surprised by the results so far. http://onlinelibrary...10.03711.x/full

With my past three procedures, my swelling began to subside after about seven days and I could see the scars beginning to re-emerge. I used a small, hand-held vacuum sweeper and used my left hand to hold the nozzle and my right hand as a 'buffer' because the suction power of the sweeper was too strong for my skin.

I suctioned both my left and right cheek three times a day starting from the third day after my last subcision procedure. I noticed that it caused a little bit of bleeding/bruising on day three but none occurred again after this initial attempt.

This time, however, the scars on my left cheek have not re-appeared at all. I have a small bruise left on my left cheek and the orange bruising has disappeared altogether.

I'm cautiously optimistic since I know from experience that " it's not over until it's over" meaning that I could still have micro-dermal swelling at this point in time.

As in the past, I'm taking a lot of photos to document the process and will definitely post some photos at the 30 day mark - January 16, 2011 or so. My younger brother stopped by our house yesterday and he commented on how smooth my skin looked on my face.

Hang in there everyone - this is definitely a journey that we're all on.

Matt

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I wanted to provide a brief update since I had my fourth subcision treatment on 12.16.11.

I decided to try to the 'suction' method that KidRock29520 mentioned above and I've been surprised by the results so far. http://onlinelibrary...10.03711.x/full

With my past three procedures, my swelling began to subside after about seven days and I could see the scars beginning to re-emerge. I used a small, hand-held vacuum sweeper and used my left hand to hold the nozzle and my right hand as a 'buffer' because the suction power of the sweeper was too strong for my skin.

I suctioned both my left and right cheek three times a day starting from the third day after my last subcision procedure. I noticed that it caused a little bit of bleeding/bruising on day three but none occurred again after this initial attempt.

This time, however, the scars on my left cheek have not re-appeared at all. I have a small bruise left on my left cheek and the orange bruising has disappeared altogether.

I'm cautiously optimistic since I know from experience that " it's not over until it's over" meaning that I could still have micro-dermal swelling at this point in time.

As in the past, I'm taking a lot of photos to document the process and will definitely post some photos at the 30 day mark - January 16, 2011 or so. My younger brother stopped by our house yesterday and he commented on how smooth my skin looked on my face.

Hang in there everyone - this is definitely a journey that we're all on.

Matt

Congrats man! That is great. Let us know how it turns out.

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It's been 25 days since my fourth subcision treatment which took place on December 16, 2011.

By all accounts, I believe that this was the most successful subcision procedure for me. My doctor was very aggressive and I heard a lot of 'popping' and 'snapping' sounds throughout the procedure which lasted about 30 minutes or so.

Right now, I have a hematoma (bruise) which has persisted on my left cheek and which is slightly raised. I went to see my doctor's colleague on January 2, 2012 to get her opinion. She told me that it was a hematoma and she injected it to help with the inflammation. She said that it might take a few weeks to completely subside. It used to be a HUGE black and blue welt. It looked as if I had gotten into a street fight and had lost.

There is some great news to report - I cannot see the other three scars on my left cheek which were treated. There were three scars that formed an 'arc' that were deep and visible on photos in certain lighting. Now, I cannot see them at all.

My doctor was very aggressive with my right cheek which had originally been the area with my deepest scarring. There is a very minor bruise on my right cheek and the skin has lifted nicely. Hopefully, collagen will continue to develop there.

I named my thread 'Man in the Mirror' because my rear-view mirror has provided me with the most unforgiving and graphic view of my scarring. Now, when I look in my rear-view mirror, my complexion is so much smoother. When I started this entire journey about three years ago, I would wince when I looked at myself in the rear-view mirror because of the depth of my scarring. Also, we have fluorescent lighting at work and the light is also very unforgiving of any imperfections in your complexion. Before all of these procedures, my face looked so 'pitted' and 'pock marked'. Today, it looks much smoother and presentable.

I don't want to mislead anyone - I don't have a perfect complexion today. But, honestly, it SO much better than it was before. In some areas, I have had 100% improvement with some of the scar revision procedures I've had. In some areas, the improvement has been less dramatic. Overall, I would say that the areas that I have had treated with subcision, TCA Cross, dermarolling, and with the Pearl Fractional Laser have improved by at least 70%.

Again, I want to remind people that improvement is g-r-a-d-u-a-l in most cases. It can take weeks or months for the collagen to redevelop.

Here are some reasons why I believe that this was the most successful subcision procedure so far:

1) my doctor has been doing this procedure for about three years now - he has had the opportunity to treat a wide variety of patients and I believe that his skill level has improved with practice

2) he entered my remaining scars from a wide variety of angles and was able to successfully undermine the scars

3) I did not follow his advice about applying pressure for the next day or so - I was concerned about the scars reattaching. Consequently, I had the most bruising I've had so far, but also the most dramatic results to date.

4) I followed KidRock29250's advice and read the study on subcision-suction and I actually 'vacuumed' my face starting from day three up until today. To be quite honest, I was astonished when the scars did not re-appear after a few days like they had done with the past three subcision treatments. Three of them on my left cheek simply vanished. To say that I am elated, is an understatement. I used a small, portable vacuum sweeper that we have at home and used my right hand over the nozzle to reduce the amount of suctioning power as it was way too powerful for my face.

 

I'm going to try to insert some links to some of my post-procedure photos. Keep in mind that these were taken 24 hours after the procedure - I look pretty beat up.

http://img542.imageshack.us/img5

http://img210.imageshack.us/img2

http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9092/20111217facedayoneright.jpg

I'll add some more recent folks in a couple of weeks or so.

Hang in there, everyone.

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