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wop

I'm sorry but i had to take a stand

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I think a key issue here is the type of response or support that is given to people posting on this board. The sympathetic waffle that many people give out (on autopilot) treats the symptoms, but not the cause.

Fictional example:

"I'm so depressed...I have a big outbreak, i've been crying in my room all day. I don't know what to do, i hate life blah blah blah."

Typical response:

"Oh poor (insert name here) I really feel for you, i've been there myself! You know that things will get better eventually blah blah blah"

I'm not saying every response is as vapid and pointless as my exaggerated one. But many of them are meaningless empathetic sentiments, from one internet stranger to another.

Sure, this gushy stuff makes the person feel better for a while...but it DOES NOT ADDRESS THE TRUE CAUSE OF THE POSTERS MISERY.

Telling someone how you really feel for them and all that gush is nice, but at the end of the day it is not useful advice to stop the persons pain.

The only thing that can stop the pain is the person themself. You have acne? So what, so do millions of people. Go out, hold your head high, have fun. Don't live in your room, doing nothing, going nowhere, and cry to the internet strangers every five minutes about how much your life sucks.

Personal anecdote time: I used to be a typical emo acne kid, holed up in my room, miserable. I abandoned my friends and was generally a sad sack of shit. Peoples sympathy, peoples pity did not help me. Who has ever got better from being pitied??

Eventually I resolved to just grow a pair. instead of feeling sorry for myself I went out, I hung with my friends. The acne was still there, but you have to grin and bare it. Life isnt meant to be easy...if you have acne, for gods sake, get over it. It isnt the be all-and end-all.

I still have acne, much the same as before. I have plenty of friends, a girlfriend, a job, a place at uni, a career ahead of me.

wop said it best:

The only way to cure the pain is you.

Life is your only right.

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Very great insights from different point of views.

Indeed, the time I found out that there was literally billions of people out there suffering acne it gave me a milestone of comfort in my heart. I initially thought that very few had this and so I secluded my self from the world. But I guess I must thank ProActive for this one, it's failure led me to my quest on the internet regarding acne. I feel at home here. =]

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Did you not realize this was the emotional and psychological effects section of the board? If you don't want to hear people complain, there are all the other sections for you to look at.

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I agree somewhat with the OP’s post and I wholeheartedly agree with skindisease’s posts.

In some cases with depression and suicidal thoughts yes, only the “victim†can will himself out of the rut.

But the OP is forgetting so many variables that come into play with depression (3rd being the most important):

1. Depression can be caused by chemical factors. (in fact, medicine indicates that depression is a chemical disorder although I do not wholly agree with this) I am not a doctor but it is possible that acne has caused people’s depression to become so imbalanced that depression is now a chronic condition for them. Medication may be necessary. If some people are able to will themselves out of depression related to chemical imbalances all the power to them. Not everybody can.

2. (not so much dealing with acne but…) Depression can be caused by physical factors that are not just chemical. I indirectly know someone who had a brain tumor which caused depression. If he had acne that would have only exacerbated his condition. This individual requires anti-depressants for the rest of his life. Hopefully this is an unlikely situation for anybody visiting this board but people in this category cannot just will themselves out of depression.

And most importantly…

3. Many people (especially teenagers) with acne do not have the ability to RATIONALIZE. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve wanted to commit suicide in the morning when I’ve discovered a new pimple (in addition to the 15 pimples already on my face). Many people would think that one new pimple should not be a cause for suicide but I cannot rationalize that. The only thing on my mind is death. If you told me at the time to just “buck up, cowboy, only the strong surviveâ€, then sorry, that would not have helped me very much considering at that very moment I am considering NOT surviving. I REPEAT – PEOPLE WHO ARE SUICIDAL MAY NOT WANT TO SURVIVE.

What would have helped is if you said something along the lines of “Cheer up, everything will be ok. What medications have you tried…try this, try that etc etc etc†Yes, that would have helped me.

If you met a burn victim who had no face, are you going to have the guts to tell him to just grow a pair? I don’t think so. According to your post, if the burn victim cannot muster the courage to endure his condition he should be wiped away from natural selection. I do NOT agree with that.

Many people with depression and suicide on their minds cannot just snap out of it. Yes, some people can, but not all people. Some people need some compassion, some people need some nudging.

Djfunz – I think there are some people on this forum that actually do truly care for one another. Random acts of kindness are proofs that random, unknowing, and anonymous people can care for one another.

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I'm tired of people posting stuff about how depressed they are only to get a heart warming, comforting response by so many people. IF YOUR DEPRESSED OR BUMMED:

1. Get off prescription meds and other drugs.

People have told me I need anti-depressants. I've got alot of fucked up stuff in my life, and the fact that i'm young and have to go thru this just compounds the situation. What doesn't kill you only makes you stronger. The human brain is too complex for a little pill to tell it how to function. All my friends have been on these types of dopamin something or another, and they've went down the drain. My freind easily could have gotten valedictorian, ever since he's been on seroquel and zoloft, he never goes to school, tries to kill himself for attention on a regular basis, and sleeps all day and night. My other friend followed the exact same story, expect he calls me all day bitching about how bad his life sucks. Then i tell him to quit being a pussy and call somebody who gives a damn. He shuts up real quick.

2. Quit feeling sorry for yourself.

DO NOT tell me i don't have as bad of life as yours either. Quit moaning and crying about your acne. It's sucks. I know, but don't go posting about how your Friday night of drinking and sex was ruined because of acne. This website should be about helping people find ways to overcome, and little e-hugs aren't the way to combat the situation. Take a stand. Get the hell up and do something about it, or at least do something with your life that makes you happy. Go help the mentally ill, volunteer, at least find someone that dosen't care about damn bumps on your face. Take some damn risks. You know that girl or guy that you've been holding back talking to because of acne? Go ask for that number. It's time for a revolution or something. The people on this site need to stand up. All that suffering we've been through is for a reason. The strong survive, and if you've made it this far with all this shit on your face, then you can tackle just about anything.

3. Tough Love

I've been warned and banned once because i said "Suicide is for pussies" It is. The strong survive, the weak don't. If your to big of a little bitch to go thru suffering, then you are weak. The world could use one less person, and if you're not willing to make the best of your life, then why live at all? Nice, comforting, hopeful reponses to peoples whiney post about their life and acne isnt going to solve anything. Tough love will. Quit being so damn emo. My language might be offending to some, but this isn't a nice little fairy tale world, were everybody has clear skin and a bueatiful complexion. This is life. It's time to be tough and not let anything get you down. Revolution. The day that we all wake up and look in the mirror, no matter how bad of a break out you've got and just say "I'm ready to suck the days dick!" is the world i one day long for. Revolution is what we need. You think all otc, prescription meds, and vitamins are going to cure your pain? Lol. The only way to cure the pain is you.

Life is your only right.

I'll probably get warned/banned for this.

But if i change one persons outlook on life It'll be totally fucking worth it.

1. you're an idiot for telling people to stop medication unless you're their doctor

2. you obviously have not spent some quality time with some of the more serious disorders

3. this is a support community, its not like people whine constantly in real life, they need an outlet hence the support of this forum

there is tough love and there is compassion, clearly you need to realize that compassion is understanding that people have a tough time but not everyone is a cookie cutter whiner who refuses to get help and just wants sympathy.

many people HAVE to be on medication, just because it didn't work for you doesn't mean that it isn't a life-saver for others.

many people do not have a strong support base or can't afford therapy so they look to places where they can meet like minded people to give themselves some solace that they aren't alone.

compassion is understanding that problems are multifaceted. If someone is consistently rude yes, i can understand ignoring pleas for help if they simply throw it back in your face, however genuine people ask for support, and since we can't tell whos who in real life, we have to assume that people are being honest upfront otherwise sites like this would literally self-destruct if we assume everyone is just a lying, attention whore.

please work on your people skills, i mean damn i have no people skills and even THIS is a no-brainer for me.

*also mods may want to consider making part of the rules that nobody advises other people to stop medication or not seek medical help as that can really cause deaths in some people who have no other support systems.

giving advice on what worked for YOU is one thing, to impose it on someone else is dangerous.

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I think there are different versions of support. I personally did not come here to get a shoulder to cry on. While acne does affect me emotionally sometimes, it's usually something I just get over after a day or so on my own. It's about a mindset and to be in control of ones thoughts. The reason I did come here is to aquire information and learn from different experiences on TREATING acne. I know I'll probably get flamed for this, but nobody TRULY cares about anybody on this board like family or good friends. Were all avatars and typed text to each other. So to come here for something much more than info is slightly delutional.

If you need really good inspirational advice and reprograming, listen to Tony Robbins or something. I believe in the ole' kick in the pants once in a while, not the marshmellow crap that the shrinks in society these days shove down our throats.

The argument above is not valid either. Back in the days when man was a hunter, he had to brutally kill animals for food and other men to protect their families. Women cooked, cleaned and took care of the children and needed the nurturing qualities. This is why men have more testosterone and women have more estrogen. It's only modern day society that has attempted to alter these pre-programmed traits.

Ill end with the famous noun that comedian George Carlin made famous.

pussification

pussification(noun): the state in which a society becomes less and less tough.

I agree that there are several manifestations of support, information being the one I came here for too - initially. However, there is an abundance of emotional support here, simply reading about other people's experiences can be helpful. Engaging other forum users about their personal struggle with acne can be even more helpful, and what would be even more helpful to me, was knowing that this was a place I could share my acne-related story too, without fear of needless criticism (such as wop's post).

Are you really recommending Tony Robbins as a form of therapy to individuals who are suffering from acne and possibly one or more mental illnesses? Tony Robbins is not a scientist, so I need not say any more about him. The medical profession does not attempt to shove 'marshmellow crap...down our throats', especially considering the majority of mental health services are voluntary. Patients have the right to self-determination in Britain, and in many Western countries.

To call psychology and psychiatry 'crap', demonstrates your ignorance of the scientific method (i.e. medicine is based on observable facts gleaned from medical research). The 'crap' mental health professionals use to treat their patients with is science. I do not need to defend science, it can defend itself - it is fact after all, until contrary evidence is discovered.

Quoting a comedian (twice - once in another post) may serve to reassure you of the validity of your point of view, but George Carlin's observations were not based on his long, arduous career in the social sciences...but rather, from cracking jokes on stage - need I say more?

To conclude then, if you believe that society has suddenly been sprung upon us, despite our 'pre-programmed traits', and we are now being 'pussified' as a result, have you tried considering that the origins of society rests in our minds and the minds of our ancestors? It is a fact that humans have evolved to think, and to develop larger brains than our ancestors. It is by thought alone we enjoy the great technological advances we have today. Brutally killing animals is not a pasttime men (and women) have abandoned it seems, yet we still have time to create societies and develop industry, science and social skills in abundance.

Your post seems to imply that you would like humanity to put down its modern tools and return to the social conditions of our ancestors. Even if that is not the case, you seem to be advocating some kind of reverse in evolution - which is strange, considering that the reason we are both alive, is because of our ancestors, and their ability to think, adapt and employ new methods of dealing with their environment and each other. Repeatedly murdering each other over food, territory and women, would have resulted in very little intelligent evolution indeed, but for the few of us who spent our time pondering our thoughts, feelings and ideas - which undoubtedly included women.

Modern day altruism is arguably a result of our heritage, as argued by the wonderful field of evolutionary psychology. Such a desirable trait was sought by our ancestors in prospective mates, and so it goes today. Sensitivity and compassion are biological traits, not ones caused by modern society, please take note of that. You may feel that nobody on this forum is sincere in their apparent concern for your welfare, and it seems you are basing your feeling on the fact that we are indeed avatars and text. That argument is invalid - whilst there is less of an emotional risk when engaging people anonymously, online, and the risk of insincerity is greater, it does not rule out sincerity's existence at all. Conversely, when one primarily engages with people face-to-face, the possibility of insincerity is still extant.

This is not the place for arguing anyway, because it seems that some of us like to base our points on evidence, and others on personal anecdotes. I shall go back to reading posts and offer emotional support where I can - to people who are struggling with acne and want someone to talk to. So to those who disagree with me, please continue to believe that wop has a valid point to make about mental illness and acne (based on what seems to be anger alone), and that djfunz has a valid point to make about masculinity being a precursor to human evolution and citing comedians and money-driven self-help 'gurus' as references.

Good night.

I have a gigantic crush on your mind for writing this response as it was eloquent and 100% correct.

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I like what you're saying here. But its one thing to say it, and another to do it. Some people are "weaker" as you would say, then others.

Some things can't be overcome by sheer get-up-and-go...

For the most part, though:

Viva la revolucion!

I have bad acne, and I dont give a flying fuck. i sing, i dance, i party like a white boy!

you have some serious personal problems if you consider somebody else's pain a "weakness" to not ever feel overwhelmed and in need of help is more abnormal and to me a sign of something greatly unstable inside.

also people may want to consider that severe reactions to acne may actually be some other contributing factor. To make such widespread generalizations is not only morally wrong but dangerous you have no idea who you're spouting to. The least you can do is admit its an OPINION and not a proven fact. That is good science, every good scientist will tell you everything is a theory as in science everything is changing constantly in flux and tomorrow new evidence may change entire ways of thinking.

i find the "revolution" of people thinking that others need to be pushed head first into things rather than being given a chance for support is pretty horrific.

and for anyone to agree that suicide is for pussies is just sick. You may not agree with it but you sure as hell don't have to say things like that. You could phrase it like "suicide is not a viable option, please seek medical attention if you're contemplating it". Even the mods intervene in suicide threads, closing them and asking the poster to seek medical attention. They close them due to the severity of the issue.

its not something to fuck around with, if someone is not already over the edge its like pushing them over the edge by telling them by contemplating it they're already a pussy.

holy crap people, have you all lost your morality marbles? its okay to have an opinion but its WRONG to assume everyone has to agree with it and if they don't they're "weak". Thats just a nasty way to force people into agreeing with you out of sheer peer pressure.

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I like what you're saying here. But its one thing to say it, and another to do it. Some people are "weaker" as you would say, then others.

Some things can't be overcome by sheer get-up-and-go...

For the most part, though:

Viva la revolucion!

I have bad acne, and I dont give a flying fuck. i sing, i dance, i party like a white boy!

you have some serious personal problems if you consider somebody else's pain a "weakness" to not ever feel overwhelmed and in need of help is more abnormal and to me a sign of something greatly unstable inside.

1. I have no "serious personal problems." You don't know me, stop drawing ridiculous conclusions.

2. I put the term "weaker" in quote marks because i was referencing the language of the OP. I do not agree with his term.

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I like what you're saying here. But its one thing to say it, and another to do it. Some people are "weaker" as you would say, then others.

Some things can't be overcome by sheer get-up-and-go...

For the most part, though:

Viva la revolucion!

I have bad acne, and I dont give a flying fuck. i sing, i dance, i party like a white boy!

you have some serious personal problems if you consider somebody else's pain a "weakness" to not ever feel overwhelmed and in need of help is more abnormal and to me a sign of something greatly unstable inside.

1. I have no "serious personal problems." You don't know me, stop drawing ridiculous conclusions.

2. I put the term "weaker" in quote marks because i was referencing the language of the OP. I do not agree with his term.

1. i said to "me" a sign of something greatly unstable. I based soley on the communication. I said sign and i did not say that it necessarily specifically applied to you just to those that consider pain a weakness, this was how it came across to me.

2. Quotes are not necessarily derivative of sarcasm but could be a simplification of a long post by the OP.

3. you specifically said I like what you're saying here. regarding the OP theory, thereby leading one to assume that you were also concluding that you agreed with the "weaker" theory note that i just used quotes to indicate that the idea was not mine, not that it was sarcastic or in disagreement.

4. in no place did you openly state that "weaker" was in fact not your opinion, you simply said that But its one thing to say it, and another to do it and that Some things can't be overcome by sheer get-up-and-go you at no point indicated that you felt the label was incorrect just that not everyone was up to the challenge so to speak.

I will now openly apologize that i did not make my point clear that the "serious problems" was not specifically directed at you but at people who looked down at the pain of others. I want to clarify that it was a response to those with lack of emotional compassion and not a direct attack at you, just at the concept and that it was an opinion and not a statement of fact.

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I specifically said "I like what you're saying here"

Did you notice the word after it?

But

*sigh* In this context, the word 'But' indicates that the following sentence is one of the parts of the OPs post I don't necessarily agree with. "Weaker" is in quote marks because it is his word not mine, and would not be my choice of word.

I hope you don't need me to justify and explain in trivial detail every sentence and word I write. Otherwise this will become a 1000 page legal document. Please spare us that.

I support certain aspects, but not all, (once again that word BUT) of the OP's opinion.

I don't look down on the pain of others. I simply want to help them find a better way through that pain. Mollycoddling and cotton wool is not always the most useful response.

Read my more recent post again. I'm trying to help people by lending my viewpoint and personal story, so lets quit with the pedantic nitpicking, OK?

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I specifically said "I like what you're saying here"

Did you notice the word after it?

But

*sigh* In this context, the word 'But' indicates that the following sentence is one of the parts of the OPs post I don't necessarily agree with. "Weaker" is in quote marks because it is his word not mine, and would not be my choice of word.

I hope you don't need me to justify and explain in trivial detail every sentence and word I write. Otherwise this will become a 1000 page legal document. Please spare us that.

I support certain aspects, but not all, (once again that word BUT) of the OP's opinion.

I don't look down on the pain of others. I simply want to help them find a better way through that pain. Mollycoddling and cotton wool is not always the most useful response.

Read my more recent post again. I'm trying to help people by lending my viewpoint and personal story, so lets quit with the pedantic nitpicking, OK?

my apologies. I can not often discern sarcasm or disdain in others so when it is done subtly I will inevitably confuse it.

Thank you for clearing that up for me, thats all i needed, some clarification. I'm not looking to start a long debate.

:)

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I'm tired of people posting stuff about how depressed

they are only to get a heart warming, comforting response by so many people.

I agree :clap: at the end of the day it's only acne

i hate to think how some of these people would deal with real troubles

the way some of them go on you would think they had cancer or something :naughty:

Its not fun having bad skin but it's not the end of the world either.

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I should have stepped in here earlier, guys, sorry for that.

1) This is the "emotional and psycological affects of acne" forum, where we encourage members to talk about the feelings that acne gives them. Often times these can be feelings of sadness, of bitterness, of anger and even depression. While these feelings can be uncomfertable to read about, we at Acne.org recognize the value of the good old fashion vent and understand that a good way to let people know they aren't alone in thier struggles is to share the very struggles we personally are going through.

2) You're right in the fact that acne is not life threatening and as such, "should" not be affect us as much as those who have cancer or suffer other such illnesses. Unfortunatly, human pain, insecurity, fear, and upset isn't limited to what others think we "should" or "shouldn't" feel. I'm sure you've run into this in your own life and have been frustrated with it.

But I also think there is a way to be supportive and get the information across without minimizing anothers pain. A simple "Hey, it's not so bad, get out there and see the world! You can do it!" is going to be alot better (and piss off fewer members) than "You pussy. You're complaigning about nothing."

This is the emotional and psychological effects of acne forum, and yes, it can get raw in here. Depressing. But this, too, allows us the chance to come together and do what I believe makes this forum the BEST forum on the entire messageboard, and that is to support and encourage others through the rawness and depression.

When we do that, I truly believe EMO shines as the best part of Acne.org.

We would all do well to remember that, certaintly at least before this thread takes a dive and I have to switch to a less suitable hat for dealing with it.

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my apologies. I can not often discern sarcasm or disdain in others so when it is done subtly I will inevitably confuse it.

Thank you for clearing that up for me, thats all i needed, some clarification. I'm not looking to start a long debate.

:)

Cool thanks, no hard feelings. :)

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Spoolice, I understood what you're saying. I feel powerless. I try to help, and sometimes I feel like I'm not doing anything important. Do you ever wish you had the ability to cure somebody's problem on your own? I hate coming to the conclusion "There's nothing else I can do for you".

I was also careful to see that you wrote "meaningless empathetic sentiments". Your problem isn't with the members who write these consoling posts. I agree wholeheartedly that is doesn't address the internal problem. People have to accept themselves, but it's hard due to societal pressure. I think it's important that we stay to help the members in need. Those words can help that person go out in the world and do as you say (go out, hold your head high, and have fun). I don't feel like we should be so harsh after someone reveals their private feelings to us. But yes, I think there is a lot of truth in your post, Spoolice. Thank you for sharing that.

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Spoolice, I understood what you're saying. I feel powerless. I try to help, and sometimes I feel like I'm not doing anything important. Do you ever wish you had the ability to cure somebody's problem on your own? I hate coming to the conclusion "There's nothing else I can do for you".

I was also careful to see that you wrote "meaningless empathetic sentiments". Your problem isn't with the members who write these consoling posts. I agree wholeheartedly that is doesn't address the internal problem. People have to accept themselves, but it's hard due to societal pressure. I think it's important that we stay to help the members in need. Those words can help that person go out in the world and do as you say (go out, hold your head high, and have fun). I don't feel like we should be so harsh after someone reveals their private feelings to us. But yes, I think there is a lot of truth in your post, Spoolice. Thank you for sharing that.

Thankyou for the response Nike73086. As usual, I admire the thoughtfulness and eloquence of your post. :)

In a way, I guess I too am despairing at the fact that there is a limited means to which these people can be 'helped.' Momentary comfort and warm fuzzies can be given... but these are a quick fix and not a solution. My utmost respect goes to those people such as yourself who take the time and effort to bestow some comfort upon the multitudes who come to this section to vent.

However, the end solution lies within each person. Only they can address their own problem. And if it takes a harsh or blunt message to let that sink in, then so be it.

At the end of the day, I believe a thread such as this will be more productive in inspiring people to chan ge their life than a typical vent/comfort response emo thread.

If anyone at all is inspired by aspects of the OPs post or subsequent posts within the thread, I will be happy.

:D

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Having reviewed this thread, I find it is the second of the OPs three points that I most strongly agree with.

His first point I cannot comment on because I know nothing of medication.

His third point I largely disagree with.

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That was kind of you to say, spoolice. Thank you. We will have to stand in disagreement about how blunt and direct our responses should be. It's tough for some people to take another kick when they're already down. And yes, we need to explore and discuss the totality of the problem. Just as I am so adamant about my way being the proper approach, you're well within your rights to believe in an alternative idea. Acne suffers need to see both views, and remain open to different avenues. The only thing that matters is our passion to bring a small ray of positivity in somebody's life.

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