Stem Cells for Acne Scar Repair (SCIENCE FACT, not science fiction!)

[Roller 5]

GBL- I don't think you really need to waste any more time. The people with common sense will get it, and the people who don't won't. Dagobert is just trying to do damage control , but the more he tries, the more foolish he looks.

[no_hope 71]

Im here to back up gbl! dagobert stop making these fake accusations. wtf is ur prob? r u jelous she got the procedure done and u havent? leave her alone she is kind enough to document her progress and here u are trying to sabatage it by making false accusations. Give the lady a break and stop acting like a child!!!!!!!!!!!

[gbl 20]

Frankly, I'm not even going to discourage any of this --it's exciting!

what is? The treatment or the conspiracy drama?!!

BOTH!!! But I really hope you're doing well(I dont believe it's a conspiracy) --but hey--all in good fun!

By the way, I'm not trying to make light of your issue GBL, I just woke up and read the flurry of posts and found the whole idea pretty amusing. You know, I'm banking that you WILL have a significant improvement in your scars. Maybe that's self-interested wishful thinking. But I do think its possible!

hey its ok, i've had a chuckle over the craziness of it as well, but its started to pee me off as i dont want it to detract from the real issues - i.e trialling the treatment

I think dagobert will only be happy if i get sh!t results and therefore 'prove' it doesnt work....sad...

[dagobert 0]

I think dagobert will only be happy if i get sh!t results and therefore 'prove' it doesnt work....sad...

Edited August 30, 2011 by dagobert

[Rez77 53]

oh god "Hopefully, one day, there will be a 7 day medication to get rid of acne, cysts, and scars. But to late for most of us - youth is almost gone " --that's depressing --thanks a lot Dagobert! : ))

Come one, I need to cheer up --tell me there's something just on the horizon that will give me smooth youthful skin again --soon!

[dagobert 0]

Until a very few years

ago, laser ablative resurfacing of the whole face was the

method of choice, with strong debate as to which of

the two most commonly used lasers, the CO2 and the

erbium-dosed yttrium aluminium garnet (Er:YAG), is

‘the best’ resurfacing laser. Reports have also appeared

on a combination of these laser modalities in the one

system. The aim of the process was to ablate the ‘old’

epidermis off the dermis as cleanly as possible,

deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage

(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto

mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed

essential to ‘kick-start’ the wound healing process,

including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by

tissue remodelling, to produce a tight, well oriented

superficial dermis under a new, fresh ‘young’

epidermis. Results with this approach were excellent,

even in very severely aged skin, but the side effects

were severe, including oedema, crusting, discomfort

and prolonged erythema during a wound healing

process that could last as long as six months. This

meant downtime for patients before they could return

to full social and work routines and which for many

was unacceptable.

(http://www.touchbriefings.com/pdf/2268/trelles.pdf, Mario A. Trelles Medical Director, Vilafortuny Medical Institute, Cambrils, Spain)

I know, this is about skin rejuvenation, but by totally removing the epidermis, any (!!!) existing scar will be removed with it, right?!(see bold underlined text) At least, this is the method "my" doctor is referring to. The downtime is 6 months - so, no question, this is surgery, not just some laser treatment. Very risky also - everbody says that, and that's also the reason, why they refuse to do this treatment on me (!). But I give a s...; gonna find someone for sure. I would even accept some russian butcher-like doctor.

...

Oh, and in case somebody is complaining because of the topic ... stem cells are involved, but they don't have to be applied, they'd stream out of the dermis

(...)deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage

(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto

mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed

essential to ‘kick-start’ the wound healing process,

including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by

tissue remodelling,(...)

[dagobert 0]

A combination of the laser surgery (see last post) with A. Baader's (http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Stem-Cells-Acne-Scar-Rep-t222851.html&st=1300) treatment and it will probably heal faster with less side effects.

[Hakuchibijin 0]

"but by totally removing the epidermis, any (!!!) existing scar will be removed with it, right?!"

Absolutely not!!! Removing the epidermis alone usually doesn't do anything at all for scaring. Scaring goes through all (three) skin layers. CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods. Look into Fraxel instead, if you're hell bent on using lasers.

Edited September 10, 2011 by Hakuchibijin

[Mr.Don 2]

Absolutely not!!! Removing the epidermis alone usually doesn't do anything at all for scaring.

That's true.

Scaring goes through all (three) skin layers.

That's not true. Most acne scars don't reach through the dermis. Usually only severe burn scars go this far.

[dagobert 0]

It's funny how you guys are ignoring facts, studies ... so science iin general.

deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage

(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto

mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed

essential to ‘kick-start’ the wound healing process,

including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by

tissue remodelling,to produce a tight, well oriented

superficial dermis under a new, fresh ‘young’

epidermis. Results with this approach were excellent,

Edited September 10, 2011 by dagobert

[Mr.Don 2]

It's funny how you guys are ignoring facts, studies ... so science iin general.

deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage

(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto

mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed

essential to �€˜kick-start�€™ the wound healing process,

including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by

tissue remodelling,to produce a tight, well oriented

superficial dermis under a new, fresh �€˜young�€™

epidermis. Results with this approach were excellent,

I also think, that you did not get the idea behind this treatment.

And if you believe in Fraxel, than all you read about it was the theory, and you totally ignored the rather disappointing results. Actually, Fraxel can also be used in the described treatment. Instead of using the CO2 laser to create the (so called) RTD, Fraxel (two wavelengths) is used to initiate the "kick-start", by causing no or less thermal damage to the dermis.

You can think, I just wanna attack you - that's not true, believe me. But this

CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods.

... is total bullshit. Actually, that is exactly how Fraxel laser manufacturers brochures start with 'CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods. But with our new breakthrough super duper bling bling shiny pulsing light .......'

CO2 lasers are used for surgery. There is no other laser, powerful enough and suitable for this.

But I give you a real fact: The current Fraxel systems give you NO IMPROVEMENT AT ALL on any type of scar.

And by the way, please tell me about those three skin layers (ROFL), I am keen to hear from your tremendous medical knowledge. Next time, first you should -at least- go to wikipedia before.

My dad always told me: Think first, then talk ! :)

wtf ?? You don't even know that scars reach into the dermis and blame him for telling the truth ?

There are three skin layers. If you had gone to wikipedia yourself you would know...

btw. I agree with you about Fraxel

Edited September 10, 2011 by Mr.Don

[Hakuchibijin 0]

It's funny how you guys are ignoring facts, studies ... so science iin general.

deliberately causing a zone of residual thermal damage

(RTD) in the dermis extending down into the upperto

mid reticular dermis. This RTD zone was deemed

essential to šškick-startšššž the wound healing process,

including angiogenesis and collagenesis, followed by

tissue remodelling,to produce a tight, well oriented

superficial dermis under a new, fresh ššyoungššš

ž

epidermis. Results with this approach were excellent,

I also think, that you did not get the idea behind this treatment.

And if you believe in Fraxel, than all you read about it was the theory, and you totally ignored the rather disappointing results. Actually, Fraxel can also be used in the described treatment. Instead of using the CO2 laser to create the (so called) RTD, Fraxel (two wavelengths) is used to initiate the "kick-start", by causing no or less thermal damage to the dermis.

You can think, I just wanna attack you - that's not true, believe me. But this

CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods.

... is total bullshit. Actually, that is exactly how Fraxel laser manufacturers brochures start with 'CO2 and erbium lasers are old and largely useless methods. But with our new breakthrough super duper bling bling shiny pulsing light .......'

CO2 lasers are used for surgery. There is no other laser, powerful enough and suitable for this.

But I give you a real fact: The current Fraxel systems give you NO IMPROVEMENT AT ALL on any type of scar.

And by the way, please tell me about those three skin layers (ROFL), I am keen to hear from your tremendous medical knowledge. Next time, first you should -at least- go to wikipedia before.

My dad always told me: Think first, then talk ! :)

Can you please cool it a bit? I am really not your enemy.

I have spent years reading scientific medical literature (I have institutional access through my work). Try to realize that just because something is published in a peer reviewed journal doesn't mean all that much.. it definitely does not mean it's an indisputable fact for the likes of you to use bashing each other on the head on some web forum. I you really think that, then you just don't understand scientific process.

If it offends you that I prefer to not use medical terms or language on a public forum, then I'm so sorry. I'm not here to impress you or anyone else with my knowledge of medical vocabulary, nor do I care about earning anyones respect in some imaginary male pubescent pissing contest. I find it more important to express myself in a way that is accessible to everyone. What was it exactly you had a problem with? Me not using the Latin names of skin layers? Kind of irrelevant, don't ya think.

For scaring to occur the injury must lie deeper then the epidermis, otherwise removing the epidermis would scar you horribly, don't you think? Or maybe your dad isn't here? I have done non fractional CO2 myself, a couple of years ago, then it was "in fashion". It did absolutely nothing for my scars. However it took close to a year and finally the use of DMSO (a non fda approved substance) for the erythema to completely subside. And it left me with a couple of new scars and slight hyperpigmentation. CO2 is apparently great for anti aging and wrinkles, not for scaring. For something to work that great for scaring, the scar tissue has to be removed (you are right about that). But CO2 just doesn't do that!

I do not advocate for fraxel. Nor do I advocate for any laser or any method that completely removes the epidermis at all. There has been discussion in academic literature whether dermal papillae regenerates completely or gets permanently damaged, which along with some other unpleasant longterm side effects might make the skin look unnatural. But you of course knew that, throwing around "scientific qoutes" and all. I do however know from discussing this with several doctors who work with this and have used all of the different lasers, that the "thermal effect" with CO2 is minute and temporary, and absent with the use of erbium lasers. I also know that fraxel, by reaching deeper than CO2 has better odds of hitting were it actually might do some good, while still keeping the epidermis undamaged. Other than that I believe them both to be pretty much useless.

The emphasis on what I wrote earlier was on if you're hell bent on using lasers, which you obviously are.

I was trying to save you pain and money.. But you are being such an arrogant unpleasant little prick everyone should just let you learn by your own mistakes, huh? You're obviously emotionally invested in this "being the cure", losing your grip like that. I'm not. I've been through that, years ago.

Edited September 11, 2011 by Hakuchibijin

[Hakuchibijin 0]

"That's not true. Most acne scars don't reach through the dermis. Usually only severe burn scars go this far."

I had my mind on surgical scars, sorry.

Btw, Hakuchibijin means girl with pale skin.

[Rez77 53]

Can you people stop all your petty arguing. NO ONE CARES. This is what we want to know : 1) is there a treatment that will minimize boxcar, rolling and icepick acne scars at least 80-100 percent??? 2) If YES, then please direct us to a website or doctor we can contact for PROOF: i.e. non-manipulated (including different lighting) so we can contact said doctor for the treatment. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF IT'S A LASER, A STEM CELL, A COMBINATION, VOODOO MAGIC OR SMEARING ELEPHANT DUNG ON MY FACE --so WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT ARGUING ABOUT THE SCIENC!!!??? None of you are doctors, most of the crap on the internet is speculative BS --just find the treatment, the doc, get it done and show us the results.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Rez77

[gbl 20]

At the risk of being torn to pieces by Dagobert, here's my 7 week post Recell comparison. I have more photos in my own thread as well as full details of the procedure. I know this is not exactly like for like photos but as Ive explained in my other thread, it gives the most accurate portrayal of the improvement. If you want to see exact same lighting and positioning, visit my other thread.

[jacno 7]

Can you people stop all your petty arguing. NO ONE CARES. This is what we want to know : 1) is there a treatment that will minimize boxcar, rolling and icepick acne scars at least 80-100 percent??? 2) If YES, then please direct us to a website or doctor we can contact for PROOF: i.e. non-manipulated (including different lighting) so we can contact said doctor for the treatment. I DO NOT GIVE A FLYING FUCK IF IT'S A LASER, A STEM CELL, A COMBINATION, VOODOO MAGIC OR SMEARING ELEPHANT DUNG ON MY FACE --so WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT ARGUING ABOUT THE SCIENC!!!??? None of you are doctors, most of the crap on the internet is speculative BS --just find the treatment, the doc, get it done and show us the results.

i agree with this guy, being proactive and doing something about it makes 1000% difference then doing nothing, some of you have this strong belief that nothing can be done, which if you believe it will cripple you from taking action. I'm sure we'd be happy with any improvement. Oh yeah gbl i'm glad to see your scar has regained color, it looks better.

[dagobert 0]

@ Lady gbl Have to admit - it looks better now.

[gbl 20]

@ Lady gbl Have to admit - it looks better now.

Why hello Dagobert! Thank you. I'm pleased with the result so far. that pic above was 7 weeks after, this includes the 3 months comparison

Edited December 13, 2011 by gbl

[galch8 0]

hello Dr bulgarian, my name is Gonzalo, I have 17 years. I suffer from acne scars. Your post cheered me up. The images that went up are very promising, showing a total restoration of damaged skin. I refer to the post of January 19, 2009, has been almost three years. I was wondering if you perform the procedure today, and if I could help, I suffer a deep depression, do not leave my house for several months. I have attempted suicide. My scars are recent (few months). Please I beg you help me somehow, I'm too youngand I feel that my life was over. The images show a totalrestoration, I was wondering if you can eliminate my scarscompletely. Perhaps it can be achieved with stem cell therapy, repeating several times.

Please Help me I beg you in some way.

[mikesmith1 2]

it would be nice if the before and after shots were in identical lighting

[gbl 20]

it would be nice if the before and after shots were in identical lighting

i do have more pics in my thread (link in sig)

its harder than you think to get identical pics when seasons /lighting changes plus i select to post the photos that give the truly most representative view of the scar.

[coconut scar 0]

Has anyone had the stem cell procedure for scars ? . is there a reputable person performing this using autologous stem cells in the United States? On the East Coast? I'm really not interested in fat being used.

[jacno 7]

What about skin printing? Or organ printing? Theres videos on youtube but im on a phone so i cant post. Also i read a artical that a heart injected with stem cells reduce scar tissue by 66%, im also lazy to get it too but you google stem cells and heart it should pop up. Unfortunatly the heart attack victims although theres reduced scar tissue, the heart is still limited and not very much improved fuction wise. But if they can reduce scar tissue in the heart im sure eventually they can do it with acne scars.

[Rez77 53]

So i think all in all GBL you cot about 30 percent solid improvement. Which frankly is really good --I mean better than ANY laser has produced out there so far. I would strongly recommend you check out a new laser called LUMENIS SCAAR FX --i is apparently able to penetrate 4mm deeper than any other laser --just google it and you'll see all the press and it is specifically designed for scars deeper and more severe than acne scars. It might be the last thing you need -though I would certainly combine it with laviv, isolagans or recell. I think you should definitely do it. It might provide the other 40 to 50 percent improvement you eed.