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Bulgarian R.

Stem Cells for Acne Scar Repair (SCIENCE FACT, not science fiction!)

I had a follow up consultation with dr khan yesterday and will be getting the PRP treatment in march to help the stem cells along. I had a chance to look at pictures of my scarring before the stem cell treatment and I actually forgot how bad it was. There is a huge improvement in the overall condition of my skin. Maybe not as much as I first thought right after the treatment because that may have been swelling but looking back, my skin looks so much better now. Hopefully after the PRP it will look even better :)

Edited by dostoyevsky

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I had a follow up consultation with dr khan yesterday and will be getting the PRP treatment in march to help the stem cells along. I had a chance to look at pictures of my scarring before the stem cell treatment and I actually forgot how bad it was. There is a huge improvement in the overall condition of my skin. Maybe not as much as I first thought right after the treatment because that may have been swelling but looking back, my skin looks so much better now. Hopefully after the PRP it will look even better :)

That's great news! :dance: Swelling can indeed be sorta misleading. I had the same experience when I had my laser treatments. Anyway, I'm glad things aren't as bad as you thought they were. :)

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So this whole stem cell thing ... is it a filler or does it actually get rid of the scar tissue and generate new skin, collagen , elastin etc. I got my hopes up about this treatment but from what ive read this just seems like an expensive filler that only last around 3 years. i wanted something that actually gets rid of the underlying cause of the scars and not just something to temporarly 'mask' teh scars .

BRD if you still read this thread can you tell us what results your patients ahve been getting ... when do you think you will be able to send me the before and after photos as i do want to get this treatment done as long as its not just some kind of filler

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Dear All,

I have been quietly reading all the posts on acne.org for about a year now and this is my first post. I too suffer from scarring on my face and I am thinking of having stem cell treatment with dr khan in harley street.

I saw dr khan last week and he was a lovely genuine doctor and he went through the stem cell treatment option with me. I left his place feeling pretty happy and content. My only concern was the cost. I do agree that the cost for stem cell treatment is very high and it is a lot to pay, but if it can achieve great results, i guess it will be worth it. After my appointment, I had more questions to ask, and I emailed dr khan and he gave me a call instantly and answered all of my questions.

The appointment with dr khan was free of charge. I am thinking over having stem cell treatment with him and if I decide to do so, I will create a new thread with my pictures before and after. I will update my pictures every week. I know lots of you out there are considering stem cell treatment and are unsure, but I believe this is the way forward.

One of my primary concerns was that a few people have commented that stem cells would only last up to 1 year. I questioned dr khan about this and he told me that when he has used stem cells for breast scars, the results have lasted for over 3 years and he has no reason to doubt it would be the same for facial scars. He also told me that although there are no guarantees with any treatment, he still expects a minimum of 80% improvement in total with my scars and this is a minimum. He does not recommend using fraxel, just stem cells to start with and then we monitor after 3 months.

I did my research on this board and I believe dr khan is the best doctor offering this treatment and he is getting great results. He has treated around 50 patients in total for facial scars and so far he has had positive results with every patient, so he must be doing something right.

I am trying to get the funds together for his treatment and if I do go ahead, I will make a new post so all of you can follow my story.

Regards,

Faizal

What type of scars do you have ?? how bad are they ?

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I agree with you if it is a filler it doesn't worth the costs I feel its unfair to pay such amount of money for a temporary solution.

We must leave the comment for the bulgarian doctor if he is still on the thread:(

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So this whole stem cell thing ... is it a filler or does it actually get rid of the scar tissue and generate new skin, collagen , elastin etc. I got my hopes up about this treatment but from what ive read this just seems like an expensive filler that only last around 3 years. i wanted something that actually gets rid of the underlying cause of the scars and not just something to temporarly 'mask' teh scars .

I understand how it can be confusing. I was confused about it myself. haha Anyway, here you go:

can someone roughly please explain what could I expect from this stem cell treatment? How does it work for acne scars? I suppose that it does not act like filler and raise scars up? So what does it do then? Someone, shortly pls :angel:

It basically works similar to a filler, the way I've understood it. But it lasts a lot longer than others. And it's combined with the stem cells which supposedly do actual repair to the subdermal layer.

http://www.harleystreetskinclinic.com/www....s/info.php?p=24

http://stemcellutions.co.uk/page_1247915450200.html

But now icaretohelp says Dr. Khan may start using pluripotent cells. And I've read that those have the ability to create all cell types. E.g. check out this diagram:

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/etc/medialib/l...1.Image.566.gif

You see that there on the bottom right? It says "skin cells of epidermis". However, if I understood it correctly, it's not as simple as using the pluripotent stem cells alone. I think there's more that needs to be done to actually achieve total regeneration. So therefore, I think in the near future it will still be solely an improvement that you'll get from any stem cell treatment. Just as is the case now.

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check this please from:

www.stclife.com

Artificial Skin BAS II

BAS II is the product developed by seeding onto BAS I the human fibroblast that is initially cultured on the skin tissue (of patient or others), which is an ideal synthetic bio-artificial skin to force the treatment for scars caused by the wounds such as burn, incurable ulcer or diabetic ulcer, etc.

Dermis defects/ wrinkle recovery therapy

It is a cell therapy to improve wrinkle generated by dermis defects by injecting the adult stem cell originated from fat tissue of the patient himself, letting it produce the inter-cell material such as collagen or elastin that is the main component of dermis without any immune rejection

The bad thing that it says it improves

any comments on that?

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I'm sorry if someone has already said this and I don't know is this any help either, but...

Didn't Dr. Oz talk about Stem Cells on Oprah? The episode had this man who had had the top of his finger cut off and his brother who was a doctor used Stem Cells to repair his finger and it worked. They also talked about the "bigger" things, like making a new heart.

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the cells mother only serve to regenerate internal bodies, for the skin is used but it does not eliminate the scar rather attenuates it

the only way to eliminate a scar is by tissue engineering, increasing or suppressing genes, or perhaps growth factors. also the scaffold is a key factor

sten cells it does not work , like those of dermarolling, copper peptides ,peelings, vitamins, etc

Edited by eterna_maldicion

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the cells mother only serve to regenerate internal bodies, for the skin is used but it does not eliminate the scar rather attenuates it

the only way to eliminate a scar is by tissue engineering, increasing or suppressing genes, or perhaps growth factors. also the scaffold is a key factor

sten cells it does not work , like those of dermarolling, copper peptides ,peelings, vitamins, etc

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Check it out, this is from L'Oréal's site. Nothing earth shattering but I thought I'd post it anyway. ;)

In order to continue the pace of innovation, L’Oréal is pursuing its research into stem cells and is broadening its field of investigation. Numerous collaborations have been set up with international teams in order to develop research programs concerning not only epidermal and hair follicle stem cell biology but also to better understand other stem cells in the skin.

The challenges of L’Oréal Recherche are on developing new preventive concepts and improving the performance and effectiveness of our products. Over the next five years, new treatments for the prevention of skin aging and hair loss and hair greying will be proposed. In the future we will also increase and reinforce our know-how in creating human reconstructed skin.

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Check it out, this is from L'Oréal's site. Nothing earth shattering but I thought I'd post it anyway. ;)

In order to continue the pace of innovation, L’Oréal is pursuing its research into stem cells and is broadening its field of investigation. Numerous collaborations have been set up with international teams in order to develop research programs concerning not only epidermal and hair follicle stem cell biology but also to better understand other stem cells in the skin.

The challenges of L’Oréal Recherche are on developing new preventive concepts and improving the performance and effectiveness of our products. Over the next five years, new treatments for the prevention of skin aging and hair loss and hair greying will be proposed. In the future we will also increase and reinforce our know-how in creating human reconstructed skin.

I think any topical will do NOTHING for scarring and those companies are advertising to harvest money from scar sufferers, they will do their research not to benifit the patients more than their pockets.

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Check it out, this is from L'Oréal's site. Nothing earth shattering but I thought I'd post it anyway. ;)

In order to continue the pace of innovation, L’Oréal is pursuing its research into stem cells and is broadening its field of investigation. Numerous collaborations have been set up with international teams in order to develop research programs concerning not only epidermal and hair follicle stem cell biology but also to better understand other stem cells in the skin.

The challenges of L’Oréal Recherche are on developing new preventive concepts and improving the performance and effectiveness of our products. Over the next five years, new treatments for the prevention of skin aging and hair loss and hair greying will be proposed. In the future we will also increase and reinforce our know-how in creating human reconstructed skin.

I think any topical will do NOTHING for scarring and those companies are advertising to harvest money from scar sufferers, they will do their research not to benifit the patients more than their pockets.

That's probably true. I agree.

They've got a little section on stem cells on their site:

http://www.loreal.com/_en/_ww/index.aspx?

Look under the window in the center where it says "Stem cells of the skin". You can read a bit more there about what they're up to. ;)

Edited by I do not have acne

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the cells mother only serve to regenerate internal bodies, for the skin is used but it does not eliminate the scar rather attenuates it

the only way to eliminate a scar is by tissue engineering, increasing or suppressing genes, or perhaps growth factors. also the scaffold is a key factor

sten cells it does not work , like those of dermarolling, copper peptides ,peelings, vitamins, etc

[well i watched on youtube from stanford university what supports your idea (eterna_maldicion)

the scar tissue cannot be repaired thats what the lecturer said you can check. she mentioned that in minutes 13 to 14.

we have to look for another solution??

the question is for BRD[/size]

I pretty sure they mean that they can not be repaired through stemcells/injections alone and that makes sense. If you have a scar and inject something under it what do you expect to happen? For the skin to magically fix? What has to be done is something similar to what Ernest had on the other thread. The scarred skin must be damaged through lasers, needling,or resurfacing so that the stemcells can repair the skin to what it once was. Though we may not be completely their yet that is the goal.

That is why I never really understood how the stem cell injections were to work. If you had rolling scars the injections would lift them but the texture/discoloration if the scar would remain. What did one expect to happen for the scar to be sucked in and replaced with perfect skin.The stem cells were not going remodel the skin from the inside out. The best results I have seen are from aggresive treatments with the addition of stemcells like Re-Cell. That is the only path that made complete sense to me. It would cause damage to skin, induce collagen production, smooth out scars, help with texture and with the addition of the stemcells help with repair and healing time.

Some one mentioned the man who used the stem cell powder on his finger. He used it when his finger was still injured this allowed the stem cells to work from the inside out. If his finger had healed into a nub the stemcells would not have done a damn thing. Many people are looking for a easy solution that will take a few minuted long with no downtime. If you want to rid yourself of your scars you are going to look like hell for the first few days.

Edited by michael24

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I wish more patients of Dr. Kahn who had the stem cell treatment done would speak up about their results and/or be willing to share pictures of their scar improvement online. It would certainly be helpful, though I can understand the treatment in itself and the aftermath must be quite stressful and posting about that would perhaps add to that.

I just read an article written by Dr. Ellenbogen who claims the processing of stem cells derived from fat makes the stem cells less potent. He states the stem cells should not be seperated from fat and simply centrifuging the fat is the best way to keep the stem cells active; any other processing will actually de-activate the stem cells, is his opinion. I'm wondering if he's talking for his own good though - sales of simple fat transfer calling it 'stem cell' fat transfer.

However, as far as I can see most surgeons seem to agree at least combining the processed stem cells again with the fat seems to be the best way to go instead of injecting them separately.

BRD mentioned he would be working on his method in 2009 to possibly reasses the first results in 2010 if I remember it correctly. Does anyone know if he posted something about his first results? It's great that he's looking into this the way he does.

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Some one mentioned the man who used the stem cell powder on his finger. He used it when his finger was still injured this allowed the stem cells to work from the inside out. If his finger had healed into a nub the stemcells would not have done a damn thing. Many people are looking for a easy solution that will take a few minuted long with no downtime. If you want to rid yourself of your scars you are going to look like hell for the first few days.

This makes sense. I read about the stem cells (derived from fat) injected after horses suffered from knee injuries. Remarkable results were seen, but only if the stem cells were injected within a week after the injury occurred.

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michael24, i'm not trying to start an argument (maybe a debate though), but i don't think we should give up faith just yet. stem cell injection is acompletely different approach than scar prevention or abrasion, where the aim is to supress the natural formation of scar tissue.

BRD has always claimed that he would like to see stem cell injection in conjunction with subcision or fraxel which would take advantage of the body's natural healing mechanisms to provide maximum results. however, i don't think just because acne scars are not open wounds does not necessarily mean stem cells would be ineffective. i think in the case of the severed finger, yes, i agree stem cells would only work immediately after in order to restore functioning, but in the case of acne scars, i think it would work even on the most aged scars. the reason i think that is this, at the scale of most acne scars, it would take only a minor wound to trigger the healing process, and what is an injection but a minor wound? the way i see it, stem cells would not do much to heal the epidermis, but would help rebuild sub-dermal tissue and build up the structure of the skin. the hope is that epidermal skin would eventually shed and allow healthy skin underneath to eventually show.

the fact of the matter is, we don't know, and it's not just magic we are banking on, but sound science.

i would also like to echo some of the previous post and encourage anyone who has had stem cell injections to document and share with us. thanks.

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michael24, i'm not trying to start an argument (maybe a debate though), but i don't think we should give up faith just yet. stem cell injection is acompletely different approach than scar prevention or abrasion, where the aim is to supress the natural formation of scar tissue.

BRD has always claimed that he would like to see stem cell injection in conjunction with subcision or fraxel which would take advantage of the body's natural healing mechanisms to provide maximum results. however, i don't think just because acne scars are not open wounds does not necessarily mean stem cells would be ineffective. i think in the case of the severed finger, yes, i agree stem cells would only work immediately after in order to restore functioning, but in the case of acne scars, i think it would work even on the most aged scars. the reason i think that is this, at the scale of most acne scars, it would take only a minor wound to trigger the healing process, and what is an injection but a minor wound? the way i see it, stem cells would not do much to heal the epidermis, but would help rebuild sub-dermal tissue and build up the structure of the skin. the hope is that epidermal skin would eventually shed and allow healthy skin underneath to eventually show.

the fact of the matter is, we don't know, and it's not just magic we are banking on, but sound science.

i would also like to echo some of the previous post and encourage anyone who has had stem cell injections to document and share with us. thanks.

elevate

micheal24 was saying the same thing you are saying but maybe in different words.

he said: the use of fraxel or needling is a must in conjunction with stem cells injection which is plausible.

I am contacting the stclife in south korea to have treatment for my scars i hope i could pay the costs and go for it. they said the results are permanent they will use a skin sample to culture stem cells and inject or spray them (after some procedure maybe)them into the scarred skin.

I will ask how would they culture these stem cells in (16 days)

if anyone interested visit (www.stclife.com) and click the stem cells box

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michael24, i'm not trying to start an argument (maybe a debate though), but i don't think we should give up faith just yet. stem cell injection is acompletely different approach than scar prevention or abrasion, where the aim is to supress the natural formation of scar tissue.

BRD has always claimed that he would like to see stem cell injection in conjunction with subcision or fraxel which would take advantage of the body's natural healing mechanisms to provide maximum results. however, i don't think just because acne scars are not open wounds does not necessarily mean stem cells would be ineffective. i think in the case of the severed finger, yes, i agree stem cells would only work immediately after in order to restore functioning, but in the case of acne scars, i think it would work even on the most aged scars. the reason i think that is this, at the scale of most acne scars, it would take only a minor wound to trigger the healing process, and what is an injection but a minor wound? the way i see it, stem cells would not do much to heal the epidermis, but would help rebuild sub-dermal tissue and build up the structure of the skin. the hope is that epidermal skin would eventually shed and allow healthy skin underneath to eventually show.

the fact of the matter is, we don't know, and it's not just magic we are banking on, but sound science.

i would also like to echo some of the previous post and encourage anyone who has had stem cell injections to document and share with us. thanks.

elevate

micheal24 was saying the same thing you are saying but maybe in different words.

he said: the use of fraxel or needling is a must in conjunction with stem cells injection which is plausible.

I am contacting the stclife in south korea to have treatment for my scars i hope i could pay the costs and go for it. they said the results are permanent they will use a skin sample to culture stem cells and inject or spray them (after some procedure maybe)them into the scarred skin.

I will ask how would they culture these stem cells in (16 days)

if anyone interested visit (www.stclife.com) and click the stem cells box

Exactly, otherwise stem cells would just be a natural version of silicone injections. Lets say you have a depressed burn scar, the stem cell injection would raise the scar even if it is temporary but, the burn scar would still be there. The stem cell injection is not going to remove the scar because it is under the skin.

However if you have an aggresive treatment be it lasers, dermabrasion, or needling and then have stemcell injections the stemcells would work from the inside out. The stem cells must have something to repair.

Really think about if you have an ice pick scar how would an injection alone fix it? First off the injection is not done directly on the scar. Second, the size of a needle is not big enough to cause real damage. It is not a minor wound,most if not everyone does not even bleed after an injection. I do believe that it would work for aged scars but the skin must be damaged to let the stem cells repair.

Many people made the mistake of thinking that the injections themselves would remove the scars, you go in have some injections and then wait for results. Not possible.

Edited by michael24

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Kiwi physician on the verge of discovering a way to prompt cells to regenerate at the site of a patient's injury:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/natio...-grow-new-limbs

Humans may one day be able to regrow organs and limbs, a Kiwi working on breakthrough research says.

Vishal Bhasin, a former Wellingtonian, has spent the past six years in Sydney researching tissue regeneration – which he says may soon enable humans to regrow parts of their body in the same way some amphibians do.

It was not science fiction, he said. "I've already managed to turn [skin] cells into fat cells and bone cells. The next step is to engineer those cells into complex three-dimensional structures."

The key lies in finding a way to prompt cells near a wound to grow new tissue, rather than scar tissue.

When a salamander or newt loses a limb, the cells near the wound turn into "progenitor" cells, which are similar to stem cells. These multiply and form into the different types of cells needed to grow a replacement limb, such as bone, skin and tissue.

Human cells cannot turn back into progenitor cells, so instead scar tissue forms over the wound.

"There was some pathway there that they were able to switch on that we can't," Dr Bhasin, 36, said. "There's a worldwide race to find this pathway. The breakthrough, when it happens, is going to transform medicine."

Researchers have already made significant advances in growing body parts from human stem cells, such as a piece of jaw and a full-sized windpipe. One group, at Wake Forest University in North Carolina, has managed to get bladder cells to regenerate, using the technique to grow bladders in a lab that were later transplanted into patients.

However, Dr Bhasin said he was on the verge of discovering a way to prompt cells to regenerate at the site of a patient's injury. "There's a natural way to do it and I think I know what it is."

Dr Bhasin, who has been self-funding his research since a grant ran out in 2008, hopes to publicise his findings within 18 months.

He was hoping to sign a new funding contract within the next few months.

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He hopes to publicise his findings within 18 months? That's very interesting. Let's hope we get some good news!

18 months? Great. More wait. Though some news is better then no news, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high up.

There are numerous scientific reports which claim that scientists believe that we are close to finding out the secret of regeneration. Even before year 2000, there are already such reports. Thus, this new finding isn't really new. I won't be too excited seriously.

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He hopes to publicise his findings within 18 months? That's very interesting. Let's hope we get some good news!

18 months? Great. More wait. Though some news is better then no news, but I wouldn't get my hopes too high up.

There are numerous scientific reports which claim that scientists believe that we are close to finding out the secret of regeneration. Even before year 2000, there are already such reports. Thus, this new finding isn't really new. I won't be too excited seriously.

I thought other scientific reports said similar things but they always concluded with things that were kind of vague regarding when a cure would be real like "Ultimately, we'll get there" or something like that. Not "In 18 months you'll find out what we found". So I got a bit excited. But yeah, if they've been saying that for over 10 years then I understand your reaction.

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There are numerous scientific reports which claim that scientists believe that we are close to finding out the secret of regeneration. Even before year 2000, there are already such reports. Thus, this new finding isn't really new. I won't be too excited seriously.

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