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Bulgarian R.

Stem Cells for Acne Scar Repair (SCIENCE FACT, not science fiction!)

I am a HUGE advocate and have researched and read countless references on Stem cell research. Honestly though, I'm not impressed. Stem cell research has so many more types of ailments/diseases that can be cured that (no offense) are far more important then what to me looks like just a better for of botox...

Yeah, we all have acne, we all want it gone, and we all deal with the scars afterwards...

But any idea on how much this type of prcedure would cost? And at what expense??

Lets keep the stem cell research to more important things like .. oh .. I dunno... Juvenille Diabetes, Alzheimers, and Parkinsons disease, etc etc???

Thanks

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I am a HUGE advocate and have researched and read countless references on Stem cell research. Honestly though, I'm not impressed. Stem cell research has so many more types of ailments/diseases that can be cured that (no offense) are far more important then what to me looks like just a better for of botox...

Yeah, we all have acne, we all want it gone, and we all deal with the scars afterwards...

But any idea on how much this type of prcedure would cost? And at what expense??

Lets keep the stem cell research to more important things like .. oh .. I dunno... Juvenille Diabetes, Alzheimers, and Parkinsons disease, etc etc???

Thanks

:rolleyes:

So you're saying that I can't take my own stem cells from my abdomen and use them as I deem best? Is there anything else from my body that I can't use as I like? :think:

Tell you what, the day you have your own lab where you're working on curing "Juvenille Diabetes, Alzheimers and Parkinsons" will be the day I'll invite you to come over to my lab and teach me about morality. Until then good luck with med school and Sunday school, but not before you graduate from kindergarten.

PS: You are very bright for a young child.

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Guest oknowwhat

WOW.... If doctors are offering scar treatments in other countries ..What do you think acne scar patients should do? NOT recieve treatment because stem cells should only be used for spinal cord injuries or diabetes? Or maybe you are the type of person who feels if they arent offering this treatment IN THE USA that means it's worthless? I think if I had any of the conditions that you listed above and of course was lucky enough to have the money I would have already tried this therapy like huundreds of thousands of other patients from the US. As for the cost... the clinic in Japan is charging about $8,000 and I know several people who have spent a great deal more on lasers that the doctors push.

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I am a HUGE advocate and have researched and read countless references on Stem cell research. Honestly though, I'm not impressed. Stem cell research has so many more types of ailments/diseases that can be cured that (no offense) are far more important then what to me looks like just a better for of botox...

Yeah, we all have acne, we all want it gone, and we all deal with the scars afterwards...

But any idea on how much this type of prcedure would cost? And at what expense??

Lets keep the stem cell research to more important things like .. oh .. I dunno... Juvenille Diabetes, Alzheimers, and Parkinsons disease, etc etc???

Thanks

This seems like a rather simplistic view. Do you suggest we allow research on a points basis and only those which are most serious should be funded? Let's just find the worst one and forget about the rest. And how would you even go about determining which are the 'top' diseases? In fact, I'm sure acne affects more people in the population than more serious diseases... sure it may not be life or death for most but for a lot it can cause serious mental issues. It can cause depression, anxiety, low self-esteem so surely this has a negative effect on society as a whole and we should be aiming at finding a cure. Yes, something like juvenille diabetes isn't fun to live with but neither is not being able to leave the house for months, even years, because your self-esteem has become so low from acne either.

When it comes to medicine, all diseases and their effects need to be given consideration, not just the ones people consider to be the worst.

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Everyone the BEST derm in the UK is Dr ammar Khan he is the only one whos doing this STEM cell therapy. the funny thing is i didnt know he did it..hes infact taught most of the practitioners in europe. i saw him to today saying my scars are 70% gone.can u get it to 90% plus?.do you know about this thing called stem celly therapy with platetes etc. and before i finshed he said yes ive helped pioneer it..he showed me before and afters VERY IMPRESSIVE..im going in oin the 6th for it:) i was really lucky..btw BRD i tried PMing u but ur inbox was full

btw u should see Dr Khans before and afters for acne scarring..PHENOMENAL.,..I doubt dr chu can match this guys expertise.Hes the only one that offers this in the UK.

Does this doc have a website?

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Guest icaretohelp

yeh but its not been updated ina while..hes on 96 harley street.www.harleystreetskin.co.uk

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yeh but its not been updated ina while..hes on 96 harley street.www.harleystreetskin.co.uk

Can you please describe how Dr. Kahn will proceed with the treatment? Will he follow the procedure outlined by BRD at the bottom of page 1 of this thread? Will he be using Platelet Rich Plasma (which BRD describes in post #75)?

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Everyone the BEST derm in the UK is Dr ammar Khan he is the only one whos doing this STEM cell therapy. the funny thing is i didnt know he did it..hes infact taught most of the practitioners in europe. i saw him to today saying my scars are 70% gone.can u get it to 90% plus?.do you know about this thing called stem celly therapy with platetes etc. and before i finshed he said yes ive helped pioneer it..he showed me before and afters VERY IMPRESSIVE..im going in oin the 6th for it:) i was really lucky..btw BRD i tried PMing u but ur inbox was full

btw u should see Dr Khans before and afters for acne scarring..PHENOMENAL.,..I doubt dr chu can match this guys expertise.Hes the only one that offers this in the UK.

Hey,

Glad to hear that your appointment went well.

There is just one thing. You mentioned "stem cell therapy with platelets", yet there is no such procedure. Stem cells and platelets are two different things and they likewise refer to two different procedures.

Platelets are taken from the blood and are utilized in so-called Platelet Rich Plasma (PRP) injections. The platelets release a host of growth factors while coagulating at the point of injection (haematoma formation), which causes a histological response whereby collagen is built up. The end result is a flattening effect to the skin depression.

Stem cell injections are more difficult to do because the cells have to be isolated from somewhere, preferrably adipose tissue during a liposuction procedure. The question is, what exactly did Dr. Khan promise to do? You say he claims to have pioneered stem cell injections in Europe, and yet there is not a sigle mention of him doing so everywhere I've looked. After a detailed overview, I am quite certain he does not perform stem cell injections as of yet.

I don't mean to be critical, but I simply don't want you to confuse between the two procedures and come away disappointed on the day you go in to have the treatment. Worse yet, I don't want you to receive inaccurate information if that is in fact the case herein.

As always best wishes,

BRD

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A few of questions...

1) Is there ANY chance someone could have a bad reaction to this? For example, I know that laser therapy works for a lot of people but some have said it made their skin even worse. I'd love to try stem cell therapy but would not take the risk if there was any chance it could make my skin worse.

2) Is there any down time?

3) Would it help with red marks and acne in general?

4) How many sessions would you need for mild scarring and do you know how much it would cost in total at the clinic in Japan?

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Great post, Many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, or maybe it was just paste & copied!!!,

Who knows!!!, great topic anyway.

I have spent many hours writing here on acne.org about my perspectives, theories, clinical experience and thus conveying information that can help people. If you are going to be making statements about "copy and pasting" then I challenge you to find another doctor or person who has written what I have presented herein since becoming an acne.org member. I challenge you to put your money where your mouth is.

BTW, I'll also take your comment as a compliment. After all, things that are written badly are seldom copied and pasted. So indeed, many thanks... What do you think, should I make a career change and write blogs and books for a living?

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Guest icaretohelp

hes doing both BRD.. doing lipo from my abdomen and also Blood ..i know what im in for:)..ill get a full report on the 6th..

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There is hope,my friends.I found the origin of the pictures.They are from a clinic in Beijing.I have also talked with the doctors there on the phone.If in fact the things they had told me was true then we CAN restore our skin back to ALMOST the way it was before the scarring.I was so excited at first and thought to myself...WOW,finally this is the solution to all our pain and suffering.But from what they were telling me,their scar repair treatment is actually Isolagen which some members here had tried.Some reported success I think.

Check out the site and you'll see there are doctors in the USA that are involved with the clinic..Does anyone know if those doctors offer Isolagen or something similar?Should I be concerned about the risks of having this treatment in China,a country with a poor record of safety issues?

http://www.aoluosi.com/detail/5563.html

I also looked at the clinic's information and I do not see any mention of Isolagen. The information I have received states that the particular pictures represent the use mesenchymal stem cells according to the technology used by the two Japanese Clinics shown below. I made a phone call and was told that "干细胞" were used, which means stem cells. If this is indeed the case and I was given the correct information, then the stem cells were recombined with adipose tissue before reinjection:

1) http://www.saisei-iryou.com/english/cellantiaging/

2) http://www.cellport.jp/english/cal/

Read through those two links for more information.

Hi BRD,thanks for the links.I'm really confused about this now.I hope you can help clear up things for me.When I was talking with the doctors from Beijing.They said they need to culture the patients own fibroblasts before injection.The doctors also told me that this treatment was being offered in the west since the 1990s and they have just started using this technology a few years ago.The USA docs on their site were involved with Isolagen.However,the Japanese clinics were very clear about using stem cells.BRD,are the 2 Japanese clinics in partnership with the Beijing clinic?I couldnt find any info on the China-Japan joint program which they have mentioned on the site.

Btw BRD ,did u receive my email ?I know you are not a fan of laser resurfacing but I'm thinking of doing fraxel CO2 to treat not only scarring but the overall texture and pigmentation on my face.What's ur opinion?Thanks so much for your input.

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hes doing both BRD.. doing lipo from my abdomen and also Blood ..i know what im in for:)..ill get a full report on the 6th..

not to pester you or anything, but i didnt see anything on the clinic's website about stem cell injections. Is this something very new that theyre not advertising? And how much does it cost?

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hes doing both BRD.. doing lipo from my abdomen and also Blood ..i know what im in for:)..ill get a full report on the 6th..

Yeah but lipo by itself is something that is performed in any traditional fat transfer. Also you should know that a normal fat transfer does still infuse your skin with a small quantity of stem cells. Nonetheless, that still doesn't qualify as a stem cell treatment/injection.

Again I say this because according to the info you're getting everything done on the 6th. Then how is Dr. Khan planning on extracting, isolating and culturing your stem cells on the same day? It doesn't work this way! Stem cell culturing requires a few days at the very least. So the thing I am concerned about is that he is only doing PRP injections and fat transfer, while you think you're getting more for the buck.

I only want the best for you, which also means that I am concerned you have not received 100% correct information. I have my reasons to feel this way, and I hope you understand that I care about your outcome especially after hearing about your personal story from the private message conversations we've had in the past. So if someone tells you (the patient) that they will be using stem cells to treat your scars, then they better be telling the truth... If on the other hand there is any unintentional miscommunication, then you still dererve to find out exactly what will be done to you so that you can make an informed decision about your treatment options.

I simply suggest that you call and ask your doctor how he plans to process and culture your stem cells. On top of this, ask him how he'll be able to achieve this in the span of a few hours. If he can't answer that question, you'll know for certain what the real deal is all about. If however he has valid answers, and he stands by his statement that he will injecting you with an extracted and concentrated quantity of stem cells (not just the residual stem cells that are present in relatively small quantities within your adipose tissue) then by all means I hope he is able to restore your skin to its natural and beautiful state.

If you need anything what-so-ever give me a shout. Furthermore if you want me to talk to Dr. Khan I can call him and have a professional one-to-one conversation...

Best of luck Sam...

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Also, BRD, what advice would u give in the meantime in terms of collagen production? (or if we cant afford an extensive trip and procedure) What are your thoughts on derma rolling/needling?

Also you had mentioned before that you were doing your own research and wanting to try out this procedure in your lab- you could probably get some funding from people on here looking to support this, and i for one would be interesting in hearing in more detail about how you go about this (i.e. recording the steps you perform, who your working with or sharing/publishing this work with, etc) whenever you start.

that may be for another blog, or atleast another post tho :P

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There is hope,my friends.I found the origin of the pictures.They are from a clinic in Beijing.I have also talked with the doctors there on the phone.If in fact the things they had told me was true then we CAN restore our skin back to ALMOST the way it was before the scarring.I was so excited at first and thought to myself...WOW,finally this is the solution to all our pain and suffering.But from what they were telling me,their scar repair treatment is actually Isolagen which some members here had tried.Some reported success I think.

Check out the site and you'll see there are doctors in the USA that are involved with the clinic..Does anyone know if those doctors offer Isolagen or something similar?Should I be concerned about the risks of having this treatment in China,a country with a poor record of safety issues?

http://www.aoluosi.com/detail/5563.html

I also looked at the clinic's information and I do not see any mention of Isolagen. The information I have received states that the particular pictures represent the use mesenchymal stem cells according to the technology used by the two Japanese Clinics shown below. I made a phone call and was told that "干细胞" were used, which means stem cells. If this is indeed the case and I was given the correct information, then the stem cells were recombined with adipose tissue before reinjection:

1) http://www.saisei-iryou.com/english/cellantiaging/

2) http://www.cellport.jp/english/cal/

Read through those two links for more information.

Hi BRD,thanks for the links.I'm really confused about this now.I hope you can help clear up things for me.When I was talking with the doctors from Beijing.They said they need to culture the patients own fibroblasts before injection.The doctors also told me that this treatment was being offered in the west since the 1990s and they have just started using this technology a few years ago.The USA docs on their site were involved with Isolagen.However,the Japanese clinics were very clear about using stem cells.BRD,are the 2 Japanese clinics in partnership with the Beijing clinic?I couldnt find any info on the China-Japan joint program which they have mentioned on the site.

Btw BRD ,did u receive my email ?I know you are not a fan of laser resurfacing but I'm thinking of doing fraxel CO2 to treat not only scarring but the overall texture and pigmentation on my face.What's ur opinion?Thanks so much for your input.

Hi Tofu,

I'll try to sort things out with them and find out some more info. As for your email, did you just recently send me a PM?

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Also, BRD, what advice would u give in the meantime in terms of collagen production? (or if we cant afford an extensive trip and procedure) What are your thoughts on derma rolling/needling?

Also you had mentioned before that you were doing your own research and wanting to try out this procedure in your lab- you could probably get some funding from people on here looking to support this, and i for one would be interesting in hearing in more detail about how you go about this (i.e. recording the steps you perform, who your working with or sharing/publishing this work with, etc) whenever you start.

that may be for another blog, or atleast another post tho :P

Hi,

The thing is needling and dermarolling can work, but it can also damage the dermis if done improperly. For example, I would only recommend you get a high quality dermaroller and make sure that its needles are perfectly straight before each and every use. Disinfecting the needles is also supremely important.

As for my experiment, I am not looking to get funding from people who suffer from acne scars. Also this particular procedure is not expensive to perform when done with traditional extraction, isolation and culturing techniques. However a doctor could for example purchase the Cytori Celution machine (price of this tech = $75000 - $100000), which helps automate some of the steps.

Anyway, the way I'm going about it does takeup a lot of time because I'll have to to go through each and every step in a precise manner. Plus, I've never done it before so who knows what challenges I'll encounter. I'm a rookie...

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BRD,

Is your procedure similar to Dr. Roger Amar's "FAMI" or "AMAR" (Autologous Mesenchymal Anatomic Restoration) technique? It seems as though his procedure differs from traditional fat grafting/transfer, but I am no expert. His before and after pictures are impressive, especially in restoring large volume losses. Do you think his technique would work for superficial rolling scars?

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Hi BRD i know you probably get a lot of PM's but if you get a spare min could you try and reply to the pm i sent you

thanks

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Hi BRD,it wasnt a recent PM but an email.

On one of the Japanese website,it says the effective period is 3 years for stem cell treatments.I thought this was permanent......some temp fillers last just as long and cost much cheaper.

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BRD,

Is your procedure similar to Dr. Roger Amar's "FAMI" or "AMAR" (Autologous Mesenchymal Anatomic Restoration) technique? It seems as though his procedure differs from traditional fat grafting/transfer, but I am no expert. His before and after pictures are impressive, especially in restoring large volume losses. Do you think his technique would work for superficial rolling scars?

Yes,I would like to know as well.The photos didnt have patients with acne scars.

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http://www.theamarclinic.com/index.html

Another link of Dr Roger Amar's.I was just reading the site and I find the stem cell treatment to be a better choice over silicone injection.I just hope this is not another"too good to be true" ....so many false hopes and promises from the past.

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BRD,

Thank you for posting this information. I've been researching this for a while now, and I think we're on the precipice of a revolution in skin renewal.

The thing I'm curious about is how to bridge current standards of treatment with stem cell procedures. I don't think the leap will happen without a current standard "building on" a tested and accepted method.. as opposed to a new method altogether.

For example, I think a treatment that might branch out into a stem cell method is the current acellular allografts. Don't you think this might be a good delivery system for stem cell therapy? If they incorporated stem cells, this might be a breakthrough which wouldn't require starting from scratch.

--------------------------------------

Acellular allograft dermis (AlloDerm[R], LifeCell Corporation) appears to present a significant solution to treating acne scars and deep wrinkles. The material is flexible, easy to implant, has a low infection rate, and elicits no rejection response (Jones, Schwartz, & Silverstein, 1996).

The graft material has been in use since 1992 as a surface graft for burn patients, with use as an implant material more recently. Human donor skin, obtained from United States tissue banks, is processed in detergent washes to remove all the cells, eliminating targets of the rejection response.

This process yields an acellular matrix with normal human collagen structure (Livesey, Atkinson, Call, Griffey, & Nag, 1994; Livesey, Herndon, Hollyoak, Atkinson, & Nag, 1995). The processed dermis is packaged under sterile conditions, then freeze-dried with a patented process, allowing the grafts to be kept in standard refrigeration for up to 2 years after the date of initial processing and easily accessible when needed.

An additional advantage of this material is its flexibility, which allows it to be cut to fit the individual size and shape of a scar or depression. To customize the size of the graft material for the varying depth of scars, several layers can be implanted (Jones et al., 1996), or a single layer can be planed down for shallower depressions.

--------------------------------------

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