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unluckyguy123

FED UP - There is no way out.

I'm so sorry you've gone through this. I understand how frustrating it can be. Have you tried TCA cross? Dr. Chu is supposed to be knowledgable about this, ask him at your next visit. Just educate yourself on this forum. The copper peptides you can get from skin biology; the Super CP Serum is supposed to be excellent, but you need to combine it with some type of exfoliant, like glycolic peels or retinoids/Retin A. Don't give up, I know it's hard but it will get better with time and proper care. Good luck!

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so it's just your nose? maybe a lil resurfacing rhinoplasty would be cheaper than flying out to see an esteemed professional!

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I dont see a way out to be honest. I have pit scars on my nose, which are deep. I have had subcission done, dermaroller, and I dont know what to do.

I have horrible ugly pit scars and I dont know what to do. I am seeing Dr Chu but I dont think it will get any better.

Who is the best person in the world to see? I would spend £10,000 and fly there if they would sort out my damn nose.

Can anyone offer any help.. please....

Dude, you have only had one dermaroller treatment done on your nose .... you told me on msn

you have to give it WAAAAAAAAAYYYYYY more time then that

like i said to you on msn ... im getting dermaroller done every 8 weeks for about 2 years

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just continue with what Dr Chu recommends . - hes the best for scars and if he has seen your skin he will know whats best for it.

continue with dermaroller and ask dr chu for terproline

maby you wana use led therapy aswel

btw, what do you think other people are thinking when they see your face ???

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I dont see a way out to be honest. I have pit scars on my nose, which are deep. I have had subcission done, dermaroller, and I dont know what to do.

You have given things NO time whatsoever. These procedures take up to a year or so to see the kind of results everyone wants.

Use the light therapy and terporline like i told you on msn. There is NO quick fix, unless you want to risk further damage.

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I will definetely look into the newer CO2 fraxels (Deefx, ActiveFX, Fraxel:Repair) or at least give CO2 resurfacing a look (if you can withstand the downtime). Laser technology are getting better every year, so are dermatologists who are performing them. Whatever you do, if you have $10,000 pounds to fly around, at least promise yourself to spend a good 3 months, consulting as many dermatologists as you can (don't stop at one, keep going). There are many resources on the net, directing you to good dermatolgists. Goto their websites, email them. If you take a good picture of your nose, you can email these dermatologists and some will make suggestions to you what the best method is. Trust the majority's opinion who has seen, done, studied thousands of procedures and skin types (consulted at least 10), not what he said she said here. Don't even take my word for it on what I think is the best. Go look and ask for yourself. Ask to see LOTS of before/after pics of their own patients. Not the ones they got off the net.

For my moderate to deep scars (even my little ones) dermarolling did absolutely nothing for me. There are people who like to tell you to 'give it more time' - as if its a cure-all; as if everyone's skin is like theirs. My needling doc also told me to give it 6 months after my 3rd dermarolling treatment to see results; unfortunately, 10 months later, my scars did not improve and some even look worse. And if you try to post your results here, people will flame you. Luckily I took tons of pictures and woke myself up to what I was doing, I've shown them to people, even to my new doc, everyone agreed with my above assessment of 0% improvement and in my opinion and from my own eyes - even worse scars appeared (which is alot worse risk than having hyperpigmentation and laser burn risk).

If you look at the science, lasers vaporize, burn thousands, if not millions of holes in your skin. Fraxels may do 20-50% coverage, depending on the machine and number of passes. Needling is very rudimentary. A thick needle may penetrate deep (and newer fraxels can go as deep), but that doesn't mean it will cause the type of comprehensive damage and cellular responses that lasers can accomplish and are required for the type of improvement for deep scarring. To compare needling to fraxel is simply laughable. One is poking large holes, the size/diameter of the needle, the other one is vaporizing the whole column of tissue, including scar tissues, in micrometers, precisely controlled by the computer. One pokes a couple of holes per mm, the other 'pokes' but actually burn through thousands. Even if fraxel won't improve your skin as much as you like, then your skin must have moderate to severe/deep scarring, in which case, needling will do nothing, period - that is exactly what one prominent dermatologist here in my country has told me [He is the top burnt victim skin doctor in our country and has tried and used every method, including needling]. And you will find these opinions also from many prominent docs in the world. Of course the majority means nothing to those peddling dermarolling because they will accuse them of profiterring or ignorance of the method when the truth is harder to bare: Needling isn't effective for moderate to deep scarring. At least for me and most dermatologists I've consulted. If that is not true, then every medspa in the world would have these procedures because it cost nothing for them to invest. The fact is, not even alot of medspa are sold by it. Why would a doc waste hundreds of thousands of dollars on a laser machine and have to do hundreds of procedures to pay it back when they can make pure profit on each needling? So my advise again is to consult as many docs as you can, especially those who offer all these procedures (Dermabrasion, laserbrasion, Fraxel, TCA, etc).

If anything my results with Fraxel vs needling proves this. After about 12 days post my 2nd Erbium fraxel. My skin has becoming smooth to the touch, lighter and better complexioned. While my larger scars hasn't improved noticeably overall, my smaller scars, indented scars, some rolliing scars have definetely improved - something needling has never be able to accomplish after 3 sessions. There is a small % change that this maybe due to microswelling effect - but I remember almost 2 weeks after my dermarolliing sessions, most of the microswelling went away. I even compared my pictures now with right before my 3rd session of dermarolling and I can see the difference in the indented, rolling scars. BIG difference. Though the jury is still out on the deeper scars.

If my skin doesn't improve anymore than now then I'm not sure if it is because of the limitation of the Erbium Fraxels (then I will try CO2 full-face resurfacing as suggested in my package deal or perhaps next year when better CO2 fraxel machines comes along) - but even after 2nd session, I'm still willing to have 3 more sessions because I see noticeable results - Unlike after 3 sessions of dermarolling where I was hoping against hope of that temporary 10-20% improvement due to microswelling and now 10 months later with 0 improvement. But one thing for sure is that don't be afraid to try fraxels or lasers. And don't let people tell you that you did something wrong because they don't like your results.

I did something wrong alright - I wasted $1500 on an useless treatement because some people thinks it works. Despite all the conversations, it's your skin, its your money - nobody here is going to give you your time & money back - they can only make excuses such as you didn't give it time or you didn't have right environment. Basically blaming you for an ineffective method to begin with.

I'm glad I finally started with fraxel, it has given more improvements for 1/2 cost (as I calculated for now) than needling ever given me. And I haven't even done the full course.

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First of all v_singh, he did dermarolling and it didn't work. And I don't need your sympathy one bit, I'm only here to post an experience with dermarolling in a forum increasingly appears to me to resemble 'Daily Dermarolling Stockholder Forum". I sure wish someone had given me a different perspective than this cure all, 90% guarantee (Seriously, this is what one dermaroller claims) improvement with a method that has little scientific backing in improving moderate/deep scarring.

2nd, it is GREAT you are experience 'sure' results with dermarolling. All the power to you if you actually think it works. Am I attacking your experience? NO, so why should you make judgements on mine? You think LED & topical works great for you, that's great. I'm not wasting money on those and still got great results from doing erbium Fraxel alone.

As for your non-result from Fraxel, perhaps you should've waited until the next generation (I'm using 3rd generation) where it goes deeper and does better job than 1st generation. But from what some prominent doc told me, if fraxel did nothing for you, dermaroller will even do less. If you want names, I'll give it to you. What can you provide me with except he said she said?

Why can't you accept that dermarolling doesn't work for everyone and let it be? People post here all the time that fraxel doesn't do anything for them without having to respond to your type of sarcasm. It seems to be only here that anyone with a negative experience with dermarolling is treated like an outcast. And the more you want to challenge my experience, the more I will post my experience. I've recently visited other forums where people freely talk about their unsucessful experience with dermarolling - some doing it 5 times or 6 times with no results. Yet, nobody would criticize them or cast doubt on them for posting their experience there. Is it because it is in a different language than what most dermarollers trolls speak ? It is only here and here only I have to defend myself like this. Why? Makes me wonder.

In the end, who am I going to believe? Bunch of anonymous posters on the net who's never seen skin other than their own or a burnt victim specialist who has treated thousands of skin disorders/problems, who tells me that dermarolling is useless for moderate/deep scars?

Again, I can provide the names of these prominent dermatologist (as if you really care) who thinks dermarolling is useless, what can you provide me with? "He said she said." That's great, all the power to you.

Well I said it doesnt' work because I really did it. If you don't belive me, that's fine, I'm not challenging YOUR experience, why should you challenge mine?

Again this is for people considering dermarolling: I think it is a big waste of time and money.

claison..u need to get a grip..we are all sorry the dermaroller hasnt worked for u but it has worked for many others..i have had fraxel(by reliant) and it was a joke..the smartxide co 2 was pretty good ..it def improved my scars ..but so far the dermaroller with topicals is slowly but surely getting rid of my scars..you dont need to act bitter. I have also added LED light therapy for the past 10 days and see a marked improvment.. i think you need to accept that needling and the dermaroller along with topicals and led therapy is as effective if not more so then fraxel..fraxel is wonderful fro wrinkles and dun damage..for acne scarring..its mediocre and the results arent anymore impressive then yes..that simple device called the dermaroller.

however if you do want to go into the lasers id recommend

for an ebrium fractional

Sciton profractional with coagulative

for co 2 fractional

Smartxide

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Claisen, unluckyguy has had 1 dermaroller treatment .... how can you say he has tried dermarolling and it did not work ... it takes alot longer then that you know.

Claisen - 'If you want names, I'll give it to you'

can i have the names please ?

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How can you be sure he did it once? Nowhere does he say that. It's like me casting doubt on your Fraxel treatment by assuming you didn't do enough of it; saying that you didn't give it enough time; or saying you didn't give it the right environment. I gave it 10 months (my doc suggested 6 months). I gave it 3 sessions, my doc promised major improvements by 3 sessions and I saw none. You see the pattern of excuses here?

Email me and I will give you one in US and one in Asia. You can email them yourself since one was willing to respond to my email, the other actually spend a good 30 minutes on the phone with me.

But here are some excerpts from one of the skin docs on this site regarding dermarolling on their website:

http://www.lvcosmeticsurgery.com/QandAPost.asp

Question by patient: I have my doubts that dermarollers create a visible amount of collagen, but they seem like a very good idea to use for deeper penetration of topical products like Retin-A as they create tiny holes in the skin for deeper product penetration. Thoughts?

Answer by Dr. Garcia(Same one the gives advise on acne.org): might also cause a previuosly unrecognized problem due to the non-certified application depth, along with the possibility of causing pimples where the carier base is inserted too deeply. JG 10.22.08

Question by poster: How is a dermaroller any less effective than a treatment like Fraxel or Profractional when it uses micro needles up to 2mm deep to puncture holes in the skin, when fraxel uses an erbium laser to puncture holes in the skin as well and erbium generates no heat = no thermal damage, so essentially it`s different means of accomplishing the exact same injury

Answer: well, I feel they are all ineffective but the lasers have a lesser chance of introducing infection into the skin as the tissue is vaporized and no needled where surface bacteria can be introduced. Also the number of punctures per square inch is much much more with the lasers than with the dermaroller. JG 10.19.08

Sounds like to me Dr. Garcia isn't a big fan of Fraxel and likes Dermaroller even less (risk of infection etc and ALOT less coverage than fraxel).

But the Fraxel I'm using is supposedly better than 1st generation that Dr. Garcia is talking about. He is more into the 'one-shot' deal with CO2 laser resurfacing. And the reason I suggested to the original poster that CO2 laser resurfacing is worth a look.

Am I plugging Erbium Fraxel? NO. I'm simply giving my experience with Dermarolling for those undecided and now, the new generation of Erbium Fraxels. If for some reason, by my 5th Fraxel, all these improvements I'm seeing fades I will certainly say it doesn't work instead of making excuses (which seems unlikely since the improvement now I'm having is more than I ever had with needling at any given time, even almost 2 weeks later. I remember by the end of the 1st week with needling, most of the swelling was gone and the scars were back).

Claisen, unluckyguy has had 1 dermaroller treatment .... how can you say he has tried dermarolling and it did not work ... it takes alot longer then that you know.

Claisen - 'If you want names, I'll give it to you'

can i have the names please ?

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All treatments can yeild zero to marginal improvement. With the LED therapy and the terproline and other topicals, you WILL get good results with persistancy and petience. It would probably work for any scar revision technique including fraxel, but i just feel the way dermaroller inflicts dermal injury is perfect when combined with these other things.

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Oh god, the scare tactics again. That's the only thing you can resort to now? Considering there are 100-1000 times more lasering done than needling every year, considering there are idiot medspas with their idiot techs with 6 week training courses 'under supervision' of a doc doing these procedures, it is NOT surprising.

What is surprsing to me is given the limited amount of needling that is done in my country, there are already few news reports of bacterial infection and cases where a person's face is completely ruined by crooked needles - these seems alot more plausible to me than cases where the skill of the physician is in error. The error here is the needle itself.

Of course why don't you be fair and LOOK for these cases of disasters in needling as you seem to have for lasering indiscriminately.

To me 1/50,000 cases of mishap in lasering is ALOT better than 1/500 in needling. It is an acceptable risk to me. Heck, there is better chance I'll get in a car accident than a laser tech ruining my face. Yes I'm giving estimates, it is still better than your one sided blind attack on lasering.

howcome ppl are seeing results then?..look fraxels can work..i know this..but im sorry..risks? please dr hoo haa garcia is looking at very unlikley scenarios...u trying to tell me the dermaroller is capabale of doing what 2 NEW generation fraxels did in those 2 pics i showed u

nope..and no dr is going to tell me otherwise

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Oh god, the scare tactics again. That's the only thing you can resort to now? Considering there are 100-1000 times more lasering done than needling every year, considering there are idiot medspas with their idiot techs with 6 week training courses 'under supervision' of a doc doing these procedures, it is NOT surprising.

What is surprsing to me is given the limited amount of needling that is done in my country, there are already few news reports of bacterial infection and cases where a person's face is completely ruined by crooked needles - these seems alot more plausible to me than cases where the skill of the physician is in error. The error here is the needle itself.

Of course why don't you be fair and LOOK for these cases of disasters in needling as you seem to have for lasering indiscriminately.

To me 1/50,000 cases of mishap in lasering is ALOT better than 1/500 in needling. It is an acceptable risk to me. Heck, there is better chance I'll get in a car accident than a laser tech ruining my face. Yes I'm giving estimates, it is still better than your one sided blind attack on lasering.

howcome ppl are seeing results then?..look fraxels can work..i know this..but im sorry..risks? please dr hoo haa garcia is looking at very unlikley scenarios...u trying to tell me the dermaroller is capabale of doing what 2 NEW generation fraxels did in those 2 pics i showed u

nope..and no dr is going to tell me otherwise

I agree people can slip up when doing dermaroller at home if they aren't carefull. But you can't seriously believe laser is safer than dermaroller? Pigmentation problems and burning are the most prominent issue with lasers and you don't get this with dermaroller. I have seen plenty of reports of people developing new scarring after lasers aswell, which is obviously a possibility. I have never seen a report such as this with dermaroller.

The way i see it, dermaroller is more of 'natural' approach. There is less that can go wrong if the correct precautions are taken.

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I distinctively remember you responding to me that 'Everybody gets improvements from dermaroller' and in fact, you were the one that claims up to '90%' improvement. And I believe that was before you started plugging LED & terproline. Again that's your opinion.

I will not change mine: You will get no improvements to moderate/severe scarring with dermarolling whatsoever.

As for LED therapy & Terproline, you can plug them all you want, but the truth is that there are new products coming out every single day that promises to 'cure-all' acne scars. I remember 20 years ago, there was this vanishing scar cream making big headlines. Truth will prevail in the end - if it works, it will become a stable of the dermatolgoist community. If it doesn't it is just one out of a million products that has made someone filthy rich, and the gullible with poor results. And based on my own experience and what I've learned from researching, I would say dermaroller is gimmick-like, not much better than microdermabrasion (the end result for me anyways, even if it gave temporary 'better' result).

I don't think any dermatologist is going to agree with your assertion of LED therapy and terproline being critical to improvement. Majority of case studies done with CO2 laser resurfacing, CO2 fraxel, Erbium Fraxel, Erbium resurfacing, YAG lasers, have never ever used LED therapy or terproline. Yet you see improvements on the order of 20-80% (with multiple sessions, and in some cases, a combination of stated procedures were used). I would show you case studies of dermaroller IF THERE IS ONE. Yet, you can find thousands of real case studies of lasers' effectiveness in peer-review literature, you know, REAL verifiable science. Again, nowhere are Terproline or LED therapy mentioned. I'm not disputing they may or may not help because I have nothing to back my claim. They may well enhance the effectiveness of lasers, but to try to reverse the role they play (saying that nothing will improve much without them) is a serious claim that require serious research - or else anyone can say anything about anything.

I'm doing my 2nd Erbium fraxel and right now, 2 weeks later, I'm seeing I would say good results for my indented, rolling & small pits and scars - I can see them filling up for sure. Now I even see my moderate-deep scars start to soften up. My skin is also very smooth, almost baby smooth. My skin is evenly toned, lighter. Something that has never happened in all of my needling. And that is without the additional $1,000 (my guess) of this and that you've mentioned. Of course as I've stated, anything can happen and these could well be longer than usual microswelling. That is why I will not be 100% convinced until after my 5th session. But at least, I am looking forward to continuing.

I agree there is no cure to improving scars, it is a fact ALMOST every dermatologists will agree. But no method can boldy claim 70-80% in scar improvement, not even the best technology available to us today, and to do so without any case studies sounds like snake-oil sales tactic to me. Yet, dermaroller makes this claim without any scientific backing on their own website. Further, there is no disclaimer that you must use 'LED therapy' or 'Terproline' anywhere.

What is closer to the truth is that needling maybe a good device for transdermal drug delivery and that's about it. It helped my skin by swelling caused by the mechanical puncture underneath - but the swelling went away in about a week, then comes back the scars. That's why for the life of me, I was kept 'thinking', 'guessing', 'hoping' for that temporary swelling to last. And perhaps for the reason I was in denial about its ineffectiveness. I wished for the best, and truth was in the pudding - all I had to do look at all the pictures right before each dermaroller session.

What is the truth is that the best biochemist/skin scientist out there has not discovered the wonder drug you are claiming. If so, you can be a millionaire in less than a year by opening up your medspa, have a franchise like McMedSpa, with only dermaroller/LED therapy light/Terproline on the menu and guarantee serious scar improvements (perhaps up to 90%) - My guess is that you will either be the richest person in the world or go broke from the lawsuits. I'll bet all my money on the latter.

All treatments can yeild zero to marginal improvement. With the LED therapy and the terproline and other topicals, you WILL get good results with persistancy and petience. It would probably work for any scar revision technique including fraxel, but i just feel the way dermaroller inflicts dermal injury is perfect when combined with these other things.

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First of all, neither you or me have any credible data to support either of our claims. But having done both (and being type IV skin type, the type that is very very suceptible to hyperpigmentation, if anyone, I should be the one overly concerned), I can only offer my own guesses about the risk involved in these two procedures, including hyperpigmentation. I've done some research on the net and read plenty of news, and I think my estimates are as good as any non-docs here, including yours.

What you think is 'natural' is quite unnatural to me. Having a bloody face, being poked by hundreds of sharp needles isn't exactly modern science. To me needling was ALOT more painful than fraxeling and both used numbing cream and I even had 4 shots to my face when I did needling. It still hurted like h#ll. Even if you clean your face very well, there are dormant viruses, spores, bacteria underneath your skin, or the stupid tech/nurse/doc happen to spit in your face when they talk (yes some forget to wear masks), or the bacteria on his hair/clothes happen to fall off right on your face as they stand above you, rigorously rolling your face for 15 minutes. You have a serious and REAL risk of infection. Where as lasers just burns them up.

For every report you 'see' of a laser mishap, there are thousands of untold success. I don't think that's the way you should go about this. Scaring people into not doing lasers, then offering them a even more mediocre, questionable method that many prominent docs say is useless (at least for moderate/deep scars) and carries its own bad or worse risks. If one was so scared by laser's hyperpigmentation (and 99% goes away within 6 months with HQ, correct pre/post operative care, as what most docs say), they should be even more scared of bacterial, virus infections and breakouts.

And as I've stated, I think I see some parts made worse of the pricking of the needles. But I'm not going to dwell on it because what's done was done but I will never do needling again. I rather do dermbrasion if I'm going throught that again.

People need to think about this: You are actually poking big holes - hundreds times bigger than a hole of a laser - to your skin. If you don't carefully apply tempered pressure, right angle and if you dare use a 2.0 mm needle, it is very possible to cause more problems, including further scarring. I mean how do you know exactly what parts of your face can withstand a needle, many times thicker than your hair, at 2.0 mm length?

To me, I rather trust my skin to a doc who's done lasering a thousand times and trust the precison of the computer, then trust that 1 needle out of 200 doesn't break or become dull or rip into a part of my skin multiple times, making it heal not so well and cause more scars. How experienced are needling docs anyways? Most haven't done this, you are like guinea pigs to them. To me, that is a whole lot scarier. Again these are my opinions. You should consult your own dermatologist what they think is the best method.

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Even the gold standard, the one judged by majority of dermatologists and real patients who's actually had them, CO2 full-laser resufracing gets about 70% at realself.com.

Now lets look here on acen.org, if I only lived in this 'dermaroller' bubble, I could swear you all want it to be 100% effective. Heck, even dermaroller gives 80% rating to themselves. WITHOUT ANY CLINCAL DATA to back up whatsoever.

Using simple logic. Either some of you are lying (not you of course) or there simply isn't enough people posting their negative results.

Or like me, when they do, they are flamed and buried and covered up with excuses like "you haven't done enough". Right right. I'm not going to let you bury the truth here.

I hope to let people see that you can get 0% result with dermaroller, and even making your scars worse. So don't tell me at least you won't make it worse when cases of infection/ruined faces are already in the news. Simple logic will tell you that sticking a needle in your face, hundreds and thousands of times, can lead to problems.

And no, to me, dermaroller is nothing like the fraxel I'm having. It's all fine you think otherwise, you are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. If I was like you, I'd tell you that you didn't give it enough time or that you didn't do it enough time, basically blaming you for your lack of improvement.

I'm not claiming this to be the case for you - but I remember where one poster somewhere on this forum, not long ago, kept claiming he never got improvements from 4 fraxels (1st generation I think). Then this guy even posted the pictures on the net for people to see. Then most people, including me, went looking at it and could see clearly there was improvement. I would guess about 20%-30% improvement myself - which I would be very satisfied with 4 fraxels because I don't have UNREAL expectations. Then this clueless dude decided, "hey it did work".

I took hundreds of pictures. I told myself after my 3rd session, I would wait at least 6 months before making a decision whether it actually helped me or not. I waited almost 9-10 months. I was thinking 10-20% would've been acceptable to me, it would've led me to give dermaroller another shot (I was planning to anyways). Then the ugly truth slapped me in the face when I looked at all the photos then and now (before I did fraxel) and compared them - 0% (exactly what many dermatologists had told me to expect) and some parts seemed worse. I'd be a complete idiot to continue. I'm not going to waste another $1500 and let that doc say, "oh well, too bad, I don't know why, it had worked for most of my other patients (1 of them)", yea right, its too bad with me down several thousands of dollars. I will never trust that doc because he can't even tell the difference between my 3rd and 1st dermaroller sessions (saying 1st was better than 3rd, than oops, wrong date on camera).

If Erbium Fraxel doesn't work for me (It goes deeper than your Restore - up to 1.5mm), at least I wouldn't be here defending it like its my family crown jewel, I'll just move to what most of dermatologists suggested I do before and do not have the time for major improvement to scars - laserbrasion. Even my current doc has warned me I may need CO2 laserbrasion for my deeper scars. AT least I see some real improvements now, and to me 20-30% is infinetely better than 0%. Of course, again, these are premlinary assements. I'm just telling you what I see now. I've never had this type of improvement with needling.

I will not make my full judgement until after 5th Fraxel. I now can see and hope for that 50% improvement with just Erbium Fraxel alone on my 2nd treatment, whereas by my 3rd needling session, I was 'guessing', hoping against hope that 10-20% (more like 10%) swelling would last. How gullible I was then. And no LED therapy or teproline is needed here.

and btw if you go on real self.com dont be fooled by the 70% satisfactory rating on frfaxel repair..most of the happy stories are regarding wrinkles..check out acne scar reviews and then talk

i had the fraxel 1500..im quite certain thats what you had too. my scars are shallow and now thanks to dermarolling led and excellent topicals my scars will probabloy be non existant by the summer.

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I haven't read your whole reply but i have ALWAYS said that some people will respond to nothing WITHOUT the LEDs and terproline (i personally had results from dermaroller without these though, which is where you are getting confused). With them i believe everyone will.

I am already getting pms from people saying how well it is working, and i will be trying to get everyone to report how they are progressing with the needling/dermaroller and LED therapy. I can assure you results WILL be better than what you find in the fraxel thread. Just wait and see.

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Even if you clean your face very well, there are dormant viruses, spores, bacteria underneath your skin, or the stupid tech/nurse/doc happen to spit in your face when they talk (yes some forget to wear masks), or the bacteria on his hair/clothes happen to fall off right on your face as they stand above you, rigorously rolling your face for 15 minutes. You have a serious and REAL risk of infection. Where as lasers just burns them up.

That is pretty funny.... Burns up the bacteria and viruses? I guess this is why they use lasers for treating MRSA in hospital environments.... OH WAIT.......

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