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shizz

lmao what a damn scam

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Straight off a site sponsored by proactiv

Acne Myths & Claims - Certain foods cause acne.

No, those french fries you had yesterday didn’t give you new zits today. In fact, scientists have been unable to find ANY substantial connection between diet and acne. So all the foods you’ve been afraid of pizza, french fries, chocolate are fine. Of course, that doesn’t mean you should binge on your favorites whenever you want. A healthy diet will help your body have the strength to help you in your fight against acne. So use your common sense, but don’t be afraid to indulge now and then. More about diet.

sadness.... the worse part of it is everyones doing it these days.

Glycemic load is a measure of how much a particular food increases your blood sugar levels (BL). You eat a food with a high GL level and you spike your BL levels. The pancreas responds by releasing large amounts of insulin to bring your BL levels back down.

Large amounts of insulin then cause your BL to go way down. When this happens this causes another response. Since your BL is now way down, the adrenal glands get a new message telling them to release androgen. Androgen then tells your liver to release it's glycogen storages to raise the BL back up.

So what's that do? It repeats the damn process lol. Since you got low BL levels , this triggers sugar cravings. With these cravings nagging at you, guess what? You're going to go eat something sweet which is high in GL.

Guess what process is about to start all over again?

Now this wouldn't be a problem if it only happened once in a while. However todays western diet is filled with sugar and other processed material. What happens? This not only becomes a daily cycle, it becomes a very regular cycle through out the day.

Now as this happens over and over, cells stop responding as well to the insulin. Insulin resistance. So what happens? The Pancreas has to release more and more and MORE and MORE...

If you've read my other topic, you might see where this is going.

Insulin and androgens alike all increase sebum production. The sugar itself doesn't actually cause acne to get worse, it's the byproducts that do it. So as you can see, it just gets worse and worse and WORSE. More and more sebum gets secreted onto your skin as the insulin resistance gets worse and worse. Just like a drug like cocaine where you have to take more and more everytime to get the desired affect.

Insulin and adrogen aren't the only ones that cause sebum to be secreted onto your skin.

Other hormones are also involved in this process and for the sake of time I won't bother naming them and going through their processes etc. This is all you need to know. They increase the rate at which your skin cells regenerate. Faster regeneration causes clogs. Just like dumping grease down your drainpipe is going to clog it up, same thing happens here.

What all that means is clogged pathways, clogged pores, and really friggin oily skin.

Your final product is Acne. It hasn't been determined yet by science, but I believe a normally harmless bacteria that your body carries with it becomes a threat when introduced to this enviroment. Suddenly this sess pool of oily skin and a lot of junk in there ( the overproducing skin cells ) becomes an ecosystem that allows this bacteria to thrive in and reproduce.

proactiv = :naughty:

They want you to believe their bullshit so you will keep buying a product that will NEVER cure the problem. What does this do? This makes you spend money and rich get richer and poor get poorer.

It's basic marketing techniques. They are not your friend. They are not here to help you. They are here to get rich.

:liar:

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Straight off a site sponsored by proactiv

Acne Myths & Claims - Certain foods cause acne.

No, those french fries you had yesterday didn’t give you new zits today. In fact, scientists have been unable to find ANY substantial connection between diet and acne. So all the foods you’ve been afraid of pizza, french fries, chocolate are fine. Of course, that doesn’t mean you should binge on your favorites whenever you want. A healthy diet will help your body have the strength to help you in your fight against acne. So use your common sense, but don’t be afraid to indulge now and then. More about diet.

They claim, as many doctors do and everyone else that's in cajones with corporate companys like proactiv and clean n clear, that diet has nothing to do with acne.

sadness.... the worse part of it is everyones doing it these days.

Glycemic load is a measure of how much a particular food increases your blood sugar levels (BL). You eat a food with a high GL level and you spike your BL levels. The pancreas responds by releasing large amounts of insulin to bring your BL levels back down.

Large amounts of insulin then cause your BL to go way down. When this happens this causes another response. Since your BL is now way down, the adrenal glands get a new message telling them to release androgen. Androgen then tells your liver to release it's glycogen storages in order to raise the BL back up.

So what's that do? It repeats the damn process lol. Since you got low BL levels, this triggers sugar cravings. With these cravings nagging at you, guess what? You're going to go eat something sweet which is high in GL.

Guess what process is about to start all over again?

Now this wouldn't be a problem if it only happened once in a while. However todays western diet is filled with sugar and other processed material. What happens? This not only becomes a daily cycle, it becomes a very regular cycle through out the day.

Now as this happens over and over, cells stop responding as well to the insulin. Insulin resistance. So what happens? The Pancreas has to release more and more and MORE and MORE...

If you've read my other topic, you might see where this is going.

Insulin and androgens alike all increase sebum production. The sugar itself doesn't actually cause acne to get worse, it's the byproducts that do it. So as you can see, it just gets worse and worse and WORSE. More and more sebum gets secreted onto your skin as the insulin resistance gets worse and worse. Just like a drug like cocaine where you have to take more and more everytime to get the desired affect.

Insulin and adrogen aren't the only ones that cause sebum to be secreted onto your skin.

Other hormones are also involved in this process and for the sake of time I won't bother naming them and going through their processes etc. This is all you need to know. They increase the rate at which your skin cells regenerate. Faster regeneration causes clogs. Just like dumping grease down your drainpipe is going to clog it up, same thing happens here.

What all that means is clogged pathways, clogged pores, and really friggin oily skin.

Your final product is Acne. It hasn't been determined yet by science, but I believe a normally harmless bacteria that your body carries with it may become a threat when introduced to this enviroment. Suddenly this sess pool of oily skin and a lot of junk in there ( the overproducing skin cells ) becomes an ecosystem that allows this bacteria to thrive in and reproduce.

proactiv = :liar:

They want you to believe their bullshit so you will keep buying a product that will NEVER cure the problem. What does this do? This makes you spend money and rich get richer and poor get poorer.

It's basic marketing techniques. They are not your friend. They are not here to help you. They are here to get rich.

:naughty::crazy2::bs:

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Straight off a site sponsored by proactiv

Acne Myths & Claims - Certain foods cause acne.

No, those french fries you had yesterday didn’t give you new zits today. In fact, scientists have been unable to find ANY substantial connection between diet and acne. So all the foods you’ve been afraid of pizza, french fries, chocolate are fine. Of course, that doesn’t mean you should binge on your favorites whenever you want. A healthy diet will help your body have the strength to help you in your fight against acne. So use your common sense, but don’t be afraid to indulge now and then. More about diet.

They claim, as many doctors do and everyone else that's in cajones with corporate companys like proactiv and clean n clear, that diet has nothing to do with acne.

sadness.... the worse part of it is everyones doing it these days.

Glycemic load is a measure of how much a particular food increases your blood sugar levels (BL). You eat a food with a high GL level and you spike your BL levels. The pancreas responds by releasing large amounts of insulin to bring your BL levels back down.

Large amounts of insulin then cause your BL to go way down. When this happens this causes another response. Since your BL is now way down, the adrenal glands get a new message telling them to release androgen. Androgen then tells your liver to release it's glycogen storages in order to raise the BL back up.

So what's that do? It repeats the damn process lol. Since you got low BL levels, this triggers sugar cravings. With these cravings nagging at you, guess what? You're going to go eat something sweet which is high in GL.

Guess what process is about to start all over again?

Now this wouldn't be a problem if it only happened once in a while. However todays western diet is filled with sugar and other processed material. What happens? This not only becomes a daily cycle, it becomes a very regular cycle through out the day.

Now as this happens over and over, cells stop responding as well to the insulin. Insulin resistance. So what happens? The Pancreas has to release more and more and MORE and MORE...

If you've read my other topic, you might see where this is going.

Insulin and androgens alike all increase sebum production. The sugar itself doesn't actually cause acne to get worse, it's the byproducts that do it. So as you can see, it just gets worse and worse and WORSE. More and more sebum gets secreted onto your skin as the insulin resistance gets worse and worse. Just like a drug like cocaine where you have to take more and more everytime to get the desired affect.

Insulin and adrogen aren't the only ones that cause sebum to be secreted onto your skin.

Other hormones are also involved in this process and for the sake of time I won't bother naming them and going through their processes etc. This is all you need to know. They increase the rate at which your skin cells regenerate. Faster regeneration causes clogs. Just like dumping grease down your drainpipe is going to clog it up, same thing happens here.

What all that means is clogged pathways, clogged pores, and really friggin oily skin.

Your final product is Acne. It hasn't been determined yet by science, but I believe a normally harmless bacteria that your body carries with it may become a threat when introduced to this enviroment. Suddenly this sess pool of oily skin and a lot of junk in there ( the overproducing skin cells ) becomes an ecosystem that allows this bacteria to thrive in and reproduce.

proactiv = :liar:

They want you to believe their bullshit so you will keep buying a product that will NEVER cure the problem. What does this do? This makes you spend money and rich get richer and poor get poorer.

It's basic marketing techniques. They are not your friend. They are not here to help you. They are here to get rich.

:naughty::crazy2:

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couldn't agree more.. i believe some persons can get rid of MILD acne with it, but when i used it, i just broke out like hell. and it kept on going. It just gave me 1000's of black and white-heads, that "transformed" to cysts and nodules.. hate proactiv

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I wouldn't blame proactiv...i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne. I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse, I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me. Even though the regimen products may be better than proactiv's, the concept behind proactiv and the regimen is virtually the same.

THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne...if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different? I think the reason that some studies dont find a relation between diet and acne is that for some people, diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne, this is different for everyone. Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me, but dairy does. Someone else might get acne from gluten. it's a very individual thing.

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I wouldn't blame proactiv...i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne. I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse, I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me. Even though the regimen products may be better than proactiv's, the concept behind proactiv and the regimen is virtually the same.

THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne...if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different? I think the reason that some studies dont find a relation between diet and acne is that for some people, diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne, this is different for everyone. Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me, but dairy does. Someone else might get acne from gluten. it's a very individual thing.

"I wouldn't blame proactiv"

Half the forum would disagree with that alone.

"i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne."

I think it's extremely clever marketing to a group that doesn't understand acne. One that doesn't work very well at that.

"I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse"

That makes no sense.

"I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me."

Again, that makes no sense.

"THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne"

How silly to simply state something like that with nothing to back it up. Conventional wisdom said that the earth was the center of the universe 500 years ago and that it was flat....

"if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different?"

The evidence is before your very eyes. Besides, I would think a billion dollar corporation would do it's own research rather than believing in "conventional wisdom". Unless they didn't have completely honest intentions that is. But what's the chances of that I mean they're out to help us not make money right? <_<

"Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me"

I clearly stated sugar has nothing to do with acne itself. It has everything to do with the things that trigger the reactions that cause sebum to overflow as well as the over production of skin AND THAT is what causes acne. It's not just sugar either.

"diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne"

What the heck? You go and say it positively doesn't effect acne, despite clear proof it does. Then the VERY next sentance you state "well maybe it does for some people"....

Did you even read what was posted? :think:

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I wouldn't blame proactiv...i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne. I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse, I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me. Even though the regimen products may be better than proactiv's, the concept behind proactiv and the regimen is virtually the same.

THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne...if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different? I think the reason that some studies dont find a relation between diet and acne is that for some people, diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne, this is different for everyone. Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me, but dairy does. Someone else might get acne from gluten. it's a very individual thing.

"I wouldn't blame proactiv"

Half the forum would disagree with that alone.

"i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne."

I think it's extremely clever marketing to a group that doesn't understand acne. One that doesn't work very well at that.

"I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse"

That makes no sense.

"I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me."

Again, that makes no sense.

"THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne"

How silly to simply state something like that with nothing to back it up. Conventional wisdom said that the earth was the center of the universe 500 years ago and that it was flat....

"if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different?"

The evidence is before your very eyes. Besides, I would think a billion dollar corporation would do it's own research rather than believing in "conventional wisdom". Unless they didn't have completely honest intentions that is. But what's the chances of that I mean they're out to help us not make money right? <_<

"Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me"

I clearly stated sugar has nothing to do with acne itself. It has everything to do with the things that trigger the reactions that cause sebum to overflow as well as the over production of skin AND THAT is what causes acne. It's not just sugar either.

"diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne"

What the heck? You go and say it positively doesn't effect acne, despite clear proof it does. Then the VERY next sentance you state "well maybe it does for some people"....

Did you even read what was posted? :think:

this is a very rude post. Clearly you didn't understand what I said and have twisted my words around.

First, did I say that diet doesn't cause acne? No, I said that diet doesn't cause acne FOR SOME PEOPLE. Clearly I believe that diet is related to acne and have found that dairy causes acne for me personally (and I said so in my post). I have a year long regimen log about it in the diet and holistic section. I only said that diet effects everyone differently. For instance, eating sugary foods does not cause breakouts for me (irregardless of the mechanism), I'm sure that it does cause acne for others.

Secondly, do you know the meaning of the phrase "Conventional wisdom". It's something that is generally believed to be true, even though it may or may not not have any scientific backing. An example would be "don't go outside with wet hair when it's cold out because you will get sick". In fact this has been disproven, however many people believe it to be true because it is information that has been around for a long time. In other words, when I said that it is conventional wisdom that diet doesn't cause acne, I did not mean to imply that I believe this to be true, only that this is generally believed to be true and I gave a reason why I think that people believe this -- because the diet acne connection is not formulaic. It is different for everyone and nonexistent for some.

Thirdly you can berate proactiv if you like. I didn't claim that it's a cure all. In the way of non-prescription topical treatments for acne, I think it's pretty decent. It combines exfoliation, AHA and benzoyl peroxide. It is very similar in concept to the regimen. I haven't personally tried the regimen products, a lot of people seem to like them better and they are slightly different from proactiv products. The concept, however, is very similar.

Fourthly, I'm not sure what was so confusing about my comments on my own personal experiences with proactiv. I simply said that often trying new products makes me break out. However, in my own opinion, proactiv products have never worsened the state of my acne. If anything, proactiv helped. I didn't say it was a magic bullet. There is no such thing for many acne sufferers. have you found one yet?

Please take the time to read my post this time if you do decide to respond. I'd really rather not have an ongoing argument. I don't need to argue theories with you since I have found my own way to clear skin. good luck to you.

edit: oooooh I see you think you have found the magic bullet to cure acne. I'm glad that you've found something that works for you, but I sincerely doubt that any one cure will work for everyone. How many data points do you have? You and a few friends does not really constitute scientific proof. THere are many many causes of acne and different paths to clear skin. Everything under the sun has been tried, if there were a panacea out there, we would know about it. Well, maybe you're a super genius and I'm totally wrong. That would be great, but it sounds like you're actually trying to market a book. Proactiv may not care about acne sufferers, but it seems you're also trying to profit from our problems.

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I wouldn't blame proactiv...i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne. I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse, I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me. Even though the regimen products may be better than proactiv's, the concept behind proactiv and the regimen is virtually the same.

THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne...if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different? I think the reason that some studies dont find a relation between diet and acne is that for some people, diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne, this is different for everyone. Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me, but dairy does. Someone else might get acne from gluten. it's a very individual thing.

"I wouldn't blame proactiv"

Half the forum would disagree with that alone.

"i think it's a good topical system for someone with mild or mild/moderate acne."

I think it's extremely clever marketing to a group that doesn't understand acne. One that doesn't work very well at that.

"I break out pretty easily and I've never found that any proactiv product made me break out worse"

That makes no sense.

"I actually don't even worry about trying new proactiv products whereas usually trying a new product is very scary for me."

Again, that makes no sense.

"THe fact of the matter is that it is just conventional wisdom that diet doesn't effect acne"

How silly to simply state something like that with nothing to back it up. Conventional wisdom said that the earth was the center of the universe 500 years ago and that it was flat....

"if dermatologists say that diet doesn't effect acne, how do you expect proactiv to know anything different?"

The evidence is before your very eyes. Besides, I would think a billion dollar corporation would do it's own research rather than believing in "conventional wisdom". Unless they didn't have completely honest intentions that is. But what's the chances of that I mean they're out to help us not make money right? <_<

"Sugar doesn't cause breakouts for me"

I clearly stated sugar has nothing to do with acne itself. It has everything to do with the things that trigger the reactions that cause sebum to overflow as well as the over production of skin AND THAT is what causes acne. It's not just sugar either.

"diet doesn't cause acne. And even if diet does effect acne"

What the heck? You go and say it positively doesn't effect acne, despite clear proof it does. Then the VERY next sentance you state "well maybe it does for some people"....

Did you even read what was posted? :think:

this is a very rude post. Clearly you didn't understand what I said and have twisted my words around.

First, did I say that diet doesn't cause acne? No, I said that diet doesn't cause acne FOR SOME PEOPLE. Clearly I believe that diet is related to acne and have found that dairy causes acne for me personally (and I said so in my post). I have a year long regimen log about it in the diet and holistic section. I only said that diet effects everyone differently. For instance, eating sugary foods does not cause breakouts for me (irregardless of the mechanism), I'm sure that it does cause acne for others.

Secondly, do you know the meaning of the phrase "Conventional wisdom". It's something that is generally believed to be true, even though it may or may not not have any scientific backing. An example would be "don't go outside with wet hair when it's cold out because you will get sick". In fact this has been disproven, however many people believe it to be true because it is information that has been around for a long time. In other words, when I said that it is conventional wisdom that diet doesn't cause acne, I did not mean to imply that I believe this to be true, only that this is generally believed to be true and I gave a reason why I think that people believe this -- because the diet acne connection is not formulaic. It is different for everyone and nonexistent for some.

Thirdly you can berate proactiv if you like. I didn't claim that it's a cure all. In the way of non-prescription topical treatments for acne, I think it's pretty decent. It combines exfoliation, AHA and benzoyl peroxide. It is very similar in concept to the regimen. I haven't personally tried the regimen products, a lot of people seem to like them better and they are slightly different from proactiv products. The concept, however, is very similar.

Fourthly, I'm not sure what was so confusing about my comments on my own personal experiences with proactiv. I simply said that often trying new products makes me break out. However, in my own opinion, proactiv products have never worsened the state of my acne. If anything, proactiv helped. I didn't say it was a magic bullet. There is no such thing for many acne sufferers. have you found one yet?

Please take the time to read my post this time if you do decide to respond. I'd really rather not have an ongoing argument, however. I don't need to argue theories with you since I have found my own way to clear skin. good luck to you.

That post was very poorly put together. I'm not here to argue with you either. But if you're going to come into the thread and disagree, or make it seem like you are because in this post you seem to be agreeing now, be sure to bring some substance.

Yes I have found a technique because I have found the underlying cause for the large majority of people.

Proactiv treats your skin. The skin isn't where it's starting thus you're not going to kill the problem.

I apologize that the post came off as rude. Let's forget it. This is merely here for people to see and add to their info.

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I haven't changed my stance from one post to the next, you simply don't like my opinion. I've clearly stated that while I do believe there is a connection between diet and acne, everyone is different. You think that you've found the ultimate cure and are happy to share it for the bargain price of....read my edit for my opinion on this matter. i'm done now. good luck

p.s. it's nice that you apologized for being rude, however, calling my post "poorly put together" is rude and also untrue. You don't have to insult people simply because they don't agree with you, this is a DISCUSSION forum. Additionally, I don't need to cite scientific studies in order to relate my own experiences and opinions based on observation (in response to your request for substance). Perhaps eliminating all sugar from the diet + your magical add on will cure acne, but who wants to live that way? I am clear and I still have sugar in my diet.

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Insulin and androgens alike all increase sebum production.

Do they? Do they really? Then how do you explain the careful set of experiments done by Kligman and his colleagues which found that giving as much as 300 mg/day of methyl testosterone to men had no effect on their sebum production?

.

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Shizz I have to agree with you. I found out I was a diabetic and changed my diet and found that my acne went away completely. I then ate some food with simple sugars in it and my face broke out. I am now watching my diet again and the acne is clearing up. I know it is my diet because before my face didn't clear up ever.

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Insulin and androgens alike all increase sebum production.

Do they? Do they really? Then how do you explain the careful set of experiments done by Kligman and his colleagues which found that giving as much as 300 mg/day of methyl testosterone to men had no effect on their sebum production?

.

Hey Brian,

that's interesting, I always thought that excess androgens caused excess sebum..so what in your opinion makes some people more naturally oily than others?

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Hey Brian,

that's interesting, I always thought that excess androgens caused excess sebum..

The assumption of the doctors who conducted that study was that the sebum production of men is already "maxed-out" by their normal androgen levels, so extra amounts of androgens don't produce any extra sebum. I personally am not entirely convinced that that's the correct explanation for their unusual results, I'm just telling you what THEY seemed to believe.

But in any event, people are CONSTANTLY posting things on these forums about how eating such-and-such junk-food (sugar, cookies, ice cream, cake, etc. etc.) causes pimples, and INEVITABLY their reasoning goes like this: those bad foods cause an insulin spike, which then causes more androgens to be produced, which then causes more sebum to be produced, which then causes more acne. So every time I see that, I have to post about the study where a lot of extra androgens had no effect at all on sebum levels in men. That information is usually met with nothing but blank looks on peoples' faces! :angel:

so what in your opinion makes some people more naturally oily than others?

The same thing that accounts for why some people are naturally taller or shorter than others: various complex genetic factors.

.

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I don't mean to defend proactive but, they are making claims based on scientific evidence, and only scientific evidence. So they aren't lying, they're just not giving us suggestions from different perspectives.

But of course we all know better right? :rolleyes:

of course they would want us to not care about what we eat. It protects both the junk food industry and the bogus acne product industry.

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