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primo1

Does having a strong immune lead to autoimmunity?

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Ok this is really confusing. Some say we have to have a strong immune system to fight off the infections, bacterias, etc. But according to this website http://www.curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1092148 having a strong immune system can also lead to autoimmunity.

What the study showed, if you look from a slightly different perspective, is that when it comes to the immune system, more is not always better. Improving the strength of the immune system comes at a cost. Optimizing the immune system, then, comes down to "cost benefit analysis."

The bottom line is yes, you want your immune system to respond strongly to any pathogens -- but not too strongly. If it responds too strongly, the costs can outweigh the benefits. An overactive immune system can lead to:

* Sustained systemic inflammation

* Autoimmune disorders

* Overactive responses to allergens

* Even death, as in the case of avian flu

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Let's look at this logically: a strong immune system wouldn't attack its own cells unwittingly. Thus, strong immune systems, by definition, will not set off autoimmune disease.

That is all.

(And by the way, that article's claim that a strong immune system causes autoimmune disease is just ridiculous. Research peer-reviewed studies, not sensationalized articles written by shady internet bloggers with no credentials.)

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(And by the way, that article's claim that a strong immune system causes autoimmune disease is just ridiculous. Research peer-reviewed studies, not sensationalized articles written by shady internet bloggers with no credentials.)

LOL! I searched Jon Barron, the one conducted the study, on Google and surprisingly, he isn't an ordinary person at all. He conducted several studies regarding diabetes, etc.

Jon Barron is one of the rare exceptions: after 40 years of research.

World-leading nutraceutical researcher, cutting-edge formulary consultant, Director of The Baseline of Health Foundation, Health Sciences Institute Board Member Editor, Publisher, and Lecturer.

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first of all, even if the body did overreact to p.acnes, it wouldnt be autoimmune. p.acnes, although it is all over our skin, is still bacteria and is not "us"; it is seperate from our cells. the problem, like you said, is that people's hair follicles have weak walls that are prone to collapsing. when these walls collapse, the bacteria does collect and multiply. when this happens, ANY immune system will respond accordingly. the problem with acne prone people is that their follicles collapse too easily, not that they overreact to p.acnes.

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Hmm interesting.. Rheumatoid, arthritis, etc. is a symptom of an autoimmune disease (all of those has inflammation) and doctors often prescribe them immune suppressants.

Hmm maybe that's why I get breakouts after taking pau d' arco? (known to have very strong effects on immune system).

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I think autoimmunity is involved in acne, but not the way this article presents it.

I've recently taken a food allergy test that examined my blood against 96 different foods (ELISA). I was surprised to discover that I have a very strong reaction to eggs and even Lima beans, which involved a delayed IgG type immune response.

When experimenting with elimination diets I never stopped eating eggs, never thought they were causing me problems and they've been a staple in my diet for as long as I can remember. I decided to stop eating them and after just one week my skin has been gradually producing less oil, no breakouts, less flaky skin and my sinuses are clearing. I've been dealing with these issues for like 15 years and I never once thought about food allergy because I didn't know about IgG reactions which aren't immediate like IgE.

I also have a cousin who's allergic to eggs but his is immediate and severe requiring a trip to the ER if he eats it.

I highly recommend you get a good food allergy test done, this has been like a miracle for me. I guess I should make a separate post about this.

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is anyone listening? AUTOimmunity is when your body attacks ITSELF. not eggs or lima beans, and not p.acnes bacteria. your immune system is involved with the treatment of acne but it does not cause it, and autoimmunity has absolutely nothing to do with it.

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first of all, even if the body did overreact to p.acnes, it wouldnt be autoimmune. p.acnes, although it is all over our skin, is still bacteria and is not "us"; it is seperate from our cells. the problem, like you said, is that people's hair follicles have weak walls that are prone to collapsing. when these walls collapse, the bacteria does collect and multiply. when this happens, ANY immune system will respond accordingly. the problem with acne prone people is that their follicles collapse too easily, not that they overreact to p.acnes.

Well you may be correct. But the question still remains, does have a strong immune lead to autoimmunity?

Let's not just dump this right away guys. Remember what dermatologists and greedy pharmaceutical companies always say? Foods such as chocolates, fatty foods, blah blah blah doesn't cause acne. We know it's complete BS, they do it for profit and for us to keep visiting derms and keep buying anti-acne topicals. It may also be possible in this case, pharmaceutical companies wants us to strengthen our immune to the fullest (via loads of supplements, etc.) and the result is hyper-active immune system (aka autoimmune disorder). Then if that happens, we'll have to buy from that company AGAIN for anti-rheumatoid arthritis, anti-addison's disease, anti-type I diabetes, anti-dermatomyositis and so on (all of those disease, disorder are from having autoimmune disease). Remember having a type 1 diabetes is probably worse than having an acne.

Now I'm not confirming that having a strong immune lead to an over-active immune system. I'm just saying let's not ignore this possibility and let us not be manipulated by pharmaceutical companies again and again.

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is anyone listening? AUTOimmunity is when your body attacks ITSELF. not eggs or lima beans, and not p.acnes bacteria. your immune system is involved with the treatment of acne but it does not cause it, and autoimmunity has absolutely nothing to do with it.
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is anyone listening? AUTOimmunity is when your body attacks ITSELF. not eggs or lima beans, and not p.acnes bacteria. your immune system is involved with the treatment of acne but it does not cause it, and autoimmunity has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Why would you state this as fact when you have absolutely no idea. Obviously if you have an allergy to any particular food your body is going to try and rid itself of this food, but it will "attack the body" during this process and the severity depends upon the degree to which your immune system considers it a threat. Ever heard of "silent inflammation"? Yes, part of this is my own theory but I'm always open to others opinions and as I've stated it is working, for me at least.

The problem is even the people studying autoimmune disorders don't know why it occurs, so lets not pretend that that part of the equation is already clearly understood. You don't know the cause, in fact, your theory doesn't even make sense.

Why is my name on the quote? Im not the one posted that reply.

Are you serious? How would "loads of supplements" strengthen the immune system?

To name a few, by taking pau d' arco, glutathione, melatonin, vit. a, c, e.

Look Im NOT saying we shouldn't strengthen our immune system. I guess we just have to know what's the "optimal" level.

pharmaceutical companies are more interested in treating SYMPTOMS rather than finding ROOT CAUSES. It's really that simple.

That's what Im saying.

As in pharmaceutical companies purposely having us strengthen our immune systems.

They do that by saying take this vitamins and you wont get sick blah blah blah. Just like dermatologists, do they tell you not to eat chocolate, foods with high sugar content? NO.

Pharmaceutical companies also tells us that we shouldn't dry our skin too much or strip its natural oil or else the skin will produce much more oil. Kligman is probably the only doctor who tested this, and thanks to bryan of this forum for convincing most of us. You'll know those companies create a lot of marketing hype. Those studies, even just one study, is really an eye opener for all of us. What am I saying? Well this is the only study I know that tells us that having a strong immune is always a good thing. Who knows, maybe this will soon be an eye opener for all of us as well.

Look Im not just speaking for myself. Im also basing this from Dr. Spottiswoode's study. I recommend reading the study first.

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Pharmaceutical companies don't want us to take supps or use natural treatments for our health and immune system. They would rather us have weak immune system, nutrient deficiences etc- which then puts us in their hands. Then after taking their drugs our immune system is compromised further putting us in a never-ending cycle with toxic drugs.

Autoimmune diseases as well as allergies are caused by a weak (poorly-functioning) immune system. Why would HIV/Aids and cancer patients be more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. When the immune system is weak it works very hard to fend off invaders and repair the body. This is what it means when the immune system over-reacts- not that it's doing too much, but that it's working too hard because it doesn't have the required nutritional fortitude to effectively heal.

Candida and poor digestion have been found to be related to autoimmune diseases, and these do not go hand-in-hand with a strong immune system.

Digestion + Autoimmune

Low immunity/candida + autoimmunity

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Acne symptoms can be explained in immunological terms, but Acne is not autoimmune disease. Nor is it the result of strong immune system. The body only mounts a immune response against P.acnes when they are trapped inside a clogged pore and digest our sebum, releasing irritating by-products that would activate any immune system. The problem is, why does the pore get clogged in the first place, trapping p.Acnes? That's the bottomline. Why does the pore pinch off? The tendency for the pore to pinch off is what distinguishes individuals for acne-proneness, not necessarily the state of one's immune system.

Also strong immunity never leads to autoimmunity. Autoimmunity is when our immune system mounts an abnormal attack against a substance in our body that was otherwise normal and common. I don't see how a strong immune system could lead to that.

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Autoimmune diseases as well as allergies are caused by a weak (poorly-functioning) immune system. Why would HIV/Aids and cancer patients be more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. When the immune system is weak it works very hard to fend off invaders and repair the body. This is what it means when the immune system over-reacts- not that it's doing too much, but that it's working too hard because it doesn't have the required nutritional fortitude to effectively heal.

That's what I read too.

Interesting replies guys. To tell you the truth Im not that agreeing on the study yet, Im just looking at the possibility. And honestly Im still taking my daily supplement regimen such as zinc, garlic, vitamin D, C.. :lol:

The body only mounts a immune response against P.acnes when they are trapped inside a clogged pore and digest our sebum, releasing irritating by-products that would activate any immune system.

Hmm interesting. Though what does the P.acne's irritating by-products release? Never heard of that before.

Autoimmune diseases as well as allergies are caused by a weak (poorly-functioning) immune system. Why would HIV/Aids and cancer patients be more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. When the immune system is weak it works very hard to fend off invaders and repair the body. This is what it means when the immune system over-reacts- not that it's doing too much, but that it's working too hard because it doesn't have the required nutritional fortitude to effectively heal.

That's what I read too.

Interesting replies guys. To tell you the truth Im not that agreeing on the study yet, Im just looking at the possibility. And honestly Im still taking my daily supplement regimen such as zinc, garlic, vitamin D, C.. :lol:

The body only mounts a immune response against P.acnes when they are trapped inside a clogged pore and digest our sebum, releasing irritating by-products that would activate any immune system.

Hmm interesting. Though what does the P.acne's irritating by-products release? Never heard of that before.

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No, taking vitamins and eating well to strengthen immune system will not cause auto immune.

You should be looking at ways to reduce inflammation. Like an anti-inflammatory diet. Most of the nutrients in supplements and a healthy diet are anti-inflammatory.

I think autoimmunity is involved in acne, but not the way this article presents it.

I've recently taken a food allergy test that examined my blood against 96 different foods (ELISA). I was surprised to discover that I have a very strong reaction to eggs and even Lima beans, which involved a delayed IgG type immune response.

When experimenting with elimination diets I never stopped eating eggs, never thought they were causing me problems and they've been a staple in my diet for as long as I can remember. I decided to stop eating them and after just one week my skin has been gradually producing less oil, no breakouts, less flaky skin and my sinuses are clearing. I've been dealing with these issues for like 15 years and I never once thought about food allergy because I didn't know about IgG reactions which aren't immediate like IgE.

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