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sorry if this has been asked before, but you're not supposed to do needling/dermarolling if you still have active acne, correct?

Yes, this is true. You should wait until you're practically clear of acne. Rolling on active lesions won't be good, and rolling can actually lead to a breakout if there is any underlying acne that you haven't gotten under control yet.

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This is the reason i haven't been visiting this board much anymore...there are always people doubting you.... even when your just trying to help. I appologise to those of you i haven't responded to via Pm's. I will try and muster up the motivation some time soon.

lamarr, your posts made me take the dermalroller seriously and although I haven't yet tried the LEDs, my scarring has without improved quite a bit and this is partly down to you. Let the doubters doubt all they want, the fact is that you genuinely helped to push me towards better skin and for that I will always be thankful!

Keep your chin up, you have helped a lot of people out here.

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ditto greg and munsoned........ I remember surfing last winter/early spring

for a solution to my scars/burn I had. I just stumbled across your thread

and from your info started reading everything I could. You can't imagine

how much better I feel, seeing the impovement. Only wish it was a faster

process, but it is what it is. So thanks.

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What do you guys think about this laser for light therapy? sportlaser. My mom has the ML830 and I though I might try using it. Thanks for your reply. :surprised:

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Dear all ,

I intend to do dermaroller soon .

But as English is not my first language , could someone help me answer " 1.what is saran wrap ?" .I googled it ,it seems like the plastic used to cover food :)) . Are these the same ?

2. Is it ok if i apply the emla cream without using the saran wrap ,since i don't know how to buy saran wrap in my current country right now .

3. How many treatment of dermaroller can the 30 gram emla cream last ? ( i haven't buy emla yet .Again ,it's not convenient and economical to buy emla at where i currently live :)) )

I really appreciate any helps.Thanks.

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they are the same. the saram wrap is necessary because it allows the EMLA to stick to the face. if you feel brave you dont need emla.

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If you can't use emla. try numbing your face with ice packs. Don't place the ice pack directly on the skin. Wrap it in a thin towel.

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Has anyone here had successs with this treatment for large pores ? The large pores on my nose and cheeks are my main problem. i dont even care about the scars just the pores. im thinking about using Terproline and LED's. Lemar any suggestions for large pores without the dermaroller. ?

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Dude, I have posted on several threads warning you that Terproline won't don't ANYTHING for large pores. If you want to try it then go ahead but I have used it for around 6 months with dermarolling and scars have improved but not my pores. Maybe that will change if I keep using it and I will let you know if it does but I wouldn't waster the £110 that it cost me for a large bottle if you're hoping to sort out your pores.

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Dude, I have posted on several threads warning you that Terproline won't don't ANYTHING for large pores. If you want to try it then go ahead but I have used it for around 6 months with dermarolling and scars have improved but not my pores. Maybe that will change if I keep using it and I will let you know if it does but I wouldn't waster the £110 that it cost me for a large bottle if you're hoping to sort out your pores.

Just becuase it didnt work for you doesnt mean it wont work for anyone else, that why i asked here. Teproline didnt do ANYTHING for YOUR pores.

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what kind of terpoline do I buy? There is the face cream and the "professional strength" face cream, that I am not even sure they would sell me. I am expecting my derma roller and led lights any day and want to be prepared with the right topicals. What else could I use?

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I want you ALL to begin using light therapy and dermaroller/needling. You can get yourself a whole "kit" for perhaps 750 dollars and you will get better results than anything else...

Here is a pic of my skin now

http://img81.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00109pk1.jpg

What i have been doing for the past year is having dermaroller done every 6-8 weeks and and needling individual scars with 4mm diabetic 33guage needles. I use a 1mm stopper to prevent it penetrating th full 4 mm.

I then use terproline twice per day. My dual 660/880nm array from the LED man and my 96 led yellow array from the LED man. 5 mins with the dual array 3 mins with the yellow.

You will need EMLA for doing dermaroller at home, many people don;t realise ho agressive you need to be and waste their time rolling every day or every week. Every month would be the most i would ever consider if you are rolling properly.

Take your vitamin C aswell...

good luck guys, you can beat your scars just think outside the box. It is no coicidence that i have beaten so many skin issues. I try things that most haven't thought of or try it in an inovative way till i get the results i want.

Heres my semi comprehensive guide. I may add more to it later on...

Dermarollers and needles

1.5mm derma roller (2mm for advanced rollers and if you want to take a slight increase in risk of infection or other potential side effects) personally I feel the results from a 2mm roller are better and will be better than a 1.5mm roller for most, but I do believe there is a slight increase in risk of side effects, although this is minimal. I prefer the 3 line or 4 line rollers that you can get; they are easier to apply the right pressure for penetration and to get the correct penetration depth across the whole face.

For the more stubborn and deeper scars I recommend the BD Micro-Fine Pen Needle 31 G x 5mm. I used to recommend using stoppers with these, but if you are careful in not penetrating the full 5mm, making sure you use between 3-4mm and not directly in at 90degrees, but at angles so you don’t penetrate to the full depth then you should be fine. Practice this on your arm before hand ( I recommend practicing on the arm for all stages of needling including the topical anesthetic, use of Dermaroller etc.

To clean your rollers firstly dip the roller in 70% isopropyl alcohol for about 10-15 minutes, then dip in Hibicleanse for 5 minutes or so. Using one of the UV-C disinfection devices is also a good idea.

Skin Preparation

EMLA is to be used, under an occlusive dressing for at least 1 hr (Cling film or saran wrap for you Americans). I personally use a small home Dermaroller i.e. 0.2 mm needle length before i apply the EMLA to increase absorption. I think people should try with just the occlusion and EMLA first though, if you can tolerate the pain then don’t bother with the smaller roller before hand, this way less EMLA will be entering the blood stream.

For disinfection I use a combination of 70% isopropyl alcohol, and hibicleanse/hibiscrub.. To pre the skin, again a combination of isopropyl 70% wipes, then cleaning with hibiscrub for several minutes and rinse THOROUGHLY, should be sufficient.

I always keep a tube of Bactroban ointment handy for any potential breakouts or infections. The Hibicleanse can also be used as a cleanser for a few days before and after dermaroller/needling to help prevent breakouts. Don’t use hibiscrub or alcohol in the first few days post dermaroller or needling though.

Oral supplements

The two supplements I recommend are vitamin C, at least 1000mg daily preferably 2000mg for several (split this into several doses throughout the day) months post dermaroller/needling. Another good supplement is red wine/grape seed extract (iherb have a very good red wine extract by doctors best). A multivitamin can’t hurt but for those of you who have taken Accutane I would find a multivitamin WITHOUT vitamin A.

Topicals

Now everyone prefers different topical, people know my preference i.e. terproline. I think it is a very good topical and I will always recommend it till something better comes along. If your skin agrees with retionds you may like these, but I don’t recommend starting these at the same time as needling/Dermaroller until you know how your skin reacts. Don’t use topical Retinoids if you have taken accutane in the past few years, or until you know how your skin responds to topical Retinoids. Topical Vitamin A the same applies.

Topical vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is another good one which I like. You need a good 15 or 20% solution and it needs to be the right PH. Check up on these things.

Copper peptides I have tried and wasn’t a big fan of but they did seem to refine my pores slightly, I haven’t used long term but again some people really like them.

Keep topical simple, don’t use too many of them it will only confuse matters. Don’t start topical in the middle of starting needling or dermaroller.

If you are using a topical to keep your acne under control, then you should probably keep using it. I personally recommend light therapy if you have active acne though as it won’t irritate the skin like some topical can.

Light therapy

Now this is one of the most important stages. I recommend everyone use light therapy, a combination of yellow (590 nm) red (660nm) and infra red (880nm) is best. You can use each separately or a combination of each. Some people believe using each separately is best. I use the 660/990 together and the yellow separately.

For acne you need the blue frequency at or around 405-420nm. The Beauty skin device is very good for acne.

Every day for the first few weeks or every other day at least. You need to reach the correct level of energy (joules per cm squared) we aim to hit about 6 joules. So you need to keep the distance down to about an inch or so from the skin and use them for approximately 5 minutes per are if you are using the LED mans devices.

You need to read up on each of these topic areas, I can’t go into enough detail and there will always be questions or variables which you can generally find the answers to out there, by searching. I love giving advice to people but when the questions are easy to find the answer to and they are repeatedly continuously it get a bit annoying.

Hey guys,

Some of you may remember Bulgarian derm bringing up the point that some people have suffered things such as cardiac arrest from topical anesthetics such as Lidocaine. While these incidents are extremely unlikely, they are a rare possible risk.... I was reading an article earlier and it went along with my consensus that it is the higher concentrations of lidocaine e.g. 10% applied under occlusion that pose the problem.

EMLA does contain 2.5% lidocaine and 2.5% prilocaine. Now because i recommend people use EMLA i want to make a new recommendation for safety. Because we do this at home we don't have the supervision we would have in a hospital, so here is what i recommend we do from now on to minimise the chances even further.

The half life (time for the body to eliminate half of the drug from the body) of lidocaine is aprox 2hrs, prilocane is even shorter. SO as some of you have been doing i recommend you do one section of your face at a time in the same evening, leaving and hour or two in between application of the anesthetics.

E.g. at 5pm apply anesthetic to right cheek, leave under occlusion for an hour then clean and needle/dermaroll. Then at 7pm do the same on the right cheek, then 9pm do the forehead....

This way you will have aprox 1/3-1/2 of the peak plasma concentration you would have if you were to apply it all at once. As you all should know, chances of side effects decrease with a decrease in dose. So i am confident if we all do this we will never have any problems.

I hope you all take the time to read this.

Hi guys

I want to try out Lamarr's method and have a few questions...

1) where do you buy the needle stopper? I cant seem to find them anywhere! (I'm in Asia.. so is there an online shop or something?)

2) Do you put the needle stopper at 1mm (meaning at anytime penetration is at 1mm)?

Or I read below that you said poking at an angle between 3-4mm... so what is the mininum and maximum penetration for needling?

3) I read from somewhere that we should poke untill we hear a POPPING sound? Does that apply for depressed and also raised scars? What if there are no sounds... ?

Thank you so much for your time and advise!

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Don't worry about the stoppers i just used them when i was experimenting with the longer needles. So long as you don't go directly e.g. at 90 degrees to the skin. and instead go into the skin at angles (meaning the penetration depth isnt the full 4mm) you will be fine.

The scar tissue will prove to be harder to penetrate than normal unscarred skin and you may hear a popping and you may not. SO long as you are hitting the scared area and penetrating a good few mm, your are OK.

Don't use these diabetic needles on the forehead or temples btw.

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Don't worry about the stoppers i just used them when i was experimenting with the longer needles. So long as you don't go directly e.g. at 90 degrees to the skin. and instead go into the skin at angles (meaning the penetration depth isnt the full 4mm) you will be fine.

The scar tissue will prove to be harder to penetrate than normal unscarred skin and you may hear a popping and you may not. SO long as you are hitting the scared area and penetrating a good few mm, your are OK.

Don't use these diabetic needles on the forehead or temples btw.

Hey Lamarr!

Thank you so much for your reply! Glad to have your support here..

Do you have a gauge on how deep we must go in order to know its the RIGHT depth? I did my first session and drew some blood but I fear it was not deep enough.. no sound heard btw..

Btw.. why cant we needle our forehead or temples?

And what if the scar is like a pin size hole, should we still poke inside and make it deeper? Thought of possibly making it deeper is scary...

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Don't worry about the stoppers i just used them when i was experimenting with the longer needles. So long as you don't go directly e.g. at 90 degrees to the skin. and instead go into the skin at angles (meaning the penetration depth isnt the full 4mm) you will be fine.

The scar tissue will prove to be harder to penetrate than normal unscarred skin and you may hear a popping and you may not. SO long as you are hitting the scared area and penetrating a good few mm, your are OK.

Don't use these diabetic needles on the forehead or temples btw.

Hey Lamarr!

Thank you so much for your reply! Glad to have your support here..

Do you have a gauge on how deep we must go in order to know its the RIGHT depth? I did my first session and drew some blood but I fear it was not deep enough.. no sound heard btw..

Btw.. why cant we needle our forehead or temples?

And what if the scar is like a pin size hole, should we still poke inside and make it deeper? Thought of possibly making it deeper is scary...

No, not really but around 3mm is what i consider to be the most effective and least risky. Don't get me wrong if your using the full 4-5mm you probably won't have any troubles, but as with anything it's about the trrade off between risk and results. Just aim to hit around 3mm deep if going in parrallel to the skin and you can use the full length of the needle if going in at angles.

You can needle the forehead and temples but i wouldn't go deeper than about 1.5-2mm. I have dermarolled my forehead with a 2mm roller but i have no real scarring up there so i have never needled with the diabetic needles in that area.

Hope that helps,

Take care

Edited by lamarr1986
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Hi lamarr!

Thanks for sharing what works for you...it is greatly appreciated! I was wondering if I could use Retin A when dermarolling? Should I lay off the retin A a couple weeks before or after rolling?

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I would leave it atleast 5-7 days after rolling before starting again. Simply because it won't have much chance to do anything before this point in time and may cause irritation and interupt the healing process.

Edited by lamarr1986
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Lamarr

do you know if there is a popping sound with a dermastamp as well, or only happens with dermaroller?

do you still believe dermastamp is as good as dermaroller?

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I think the 'popping' sound with dermaroller is more of a crunching/pulling of the skin as it enters and leaves the skin at slight angles (the needles are on a wheel remember).

I know what people mean when they say they hear a slightly popping sound when needling with a single needle, and that the resistance in scarred areas is normally higher when needling. Over time though i didn't even get this anymore...

Put it this way.... If you aren't hearing a popping sound i wouldn't worry, so long as the needles are penetrating the skin in the right areas and enough times. Just make sure your applying enough pressure.

Yes i see no reason as to why the dermastamp isn't as good as dermaroller.

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Dear Lamarr ,

I read some of the post in this topic and i see you said that beveled needle aren't good right?

I just purchased the BD Micro-Fine Pen Needle 31 G x 5mm ,the exact needle that you suggests. But the needles is beveled !

Hmm ,could u enlighten me .

Thanks .

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I think theres a problem with how people define the word beveled when talking about these needles!! All needles are beveled but some have almost a spear like tip, which is what you need to avoid.

In this image, look at the lower needle. This is FINE and can be used perfectly safe (remember this is under a microscope)

http://www.csen.com/Eldor-Quincke.jpg

This however is something you dont want to use (hard to see but can't find any better)

http://www.brandymd.com/images/articles/no-kor_needles1.jpg

Hope this helps!

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Hey Lamarr,

thank you for this very informative post and for taking the time to help all of us who choose to follow this method! Your before and after pics have inspired me to start this and I have ordered everything I need. I was wondering though, if it is ok to roll on my jaw line with the 2mm roller. Also, what do you do after your done rolling, do you wash your face or disinfect? Sorry if any of these questions have been answered before!!

Eric

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Hey Lamarr,

thank you for this very informative post and for taking the time to help all of us who choose to follow this method! Your before and after pics have inspired me to start this and I have ordered everything I need. I was wondering though, if it is ok to roll on my jaw line with the 2mm roller. Also, what do you do after your done rolling, do you wash your face or disinfect? Sorry if any of these questions have been answered before!!

Eric

No Problem man i enjoy helping people!

2mm should be no problem on the jawline atall... I personally now just rinse my face, with soap if you want but should be a non irritating one. Then i apply some bactroban ointment about an hour later, which takes care of the infection side of things. Neosporin or something alike would be good if your in the U.S. Just try and ensure you are very stirile before washing yoru face e.g. wash your hands with hibiscrub/hibicleanse and clean all your work area and tools with isopropyl alcohol!

Take Care

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