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I have read so much that i can construct a map in my head of how things work . Yeah i read about the hypertrophic scarring and improvement with LLLT reducing the redness and raised'ness' of the scarring.

I also know that you need to achieve the bioinhibition and that this is only really possible with lasers. With LED's i don't think it is really possible (i have learn't this from peoples experiences on the rosacea forum for instance). People actually fall asleep under LED's and don't suffer because of it. I do tend to recommend treatment times with LED's that reach the 6j mark because i would rather not risk it...

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What is the correct way to use a led light?

I just wanted to say I've used my dermaroller 2 mm several times now (paired with vitamins c and a and led lights) and my scars have been filling in dramatically. I read someone mention somewhere that they could see the bottom of the scar they had rolled--that's what's happened with me too! For a while i was freaked out because it looked like my scars were just getting bigger, but in reality i guess they really were remodelling.

Thanks to everyone for their great advice and encouragement! I plan to continue on with the regimine as long as possible...wish I'd thought to take some before pics so I could have started an acne.org journal but maybe it isn't too late for that?

I was thinking about starting some mild peels for my pores and oiliness during my six weeks in between rolling sessions. I am wondering if the collagen rebuilding process would be disturbed by the peels or if it would be okay because the peeling is happening on the surface...anyone have any thoughts on this? I thought salicylic, lactic or glycolic acid only may be alright.

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Lamar,

I have seen your before pic and after pic and you have experienced quite dramatic results. Did you suffer from fat loss or indendations? Was the method you have described even effective for that?

thanks

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What is the correct way to use a led light?

I just wanted to say I've used my dermaroller 2 mm several times now (paired with vitamins c and a and led lights) and my scars have been filling in dramatically.

just want to say that's wonderful- thanks for sharing the good news. hope your improvement continues steadily. :)

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What is the correct way to use a led light?

I just wanted to say I've used my dermaroller 2 mm several times now (paired with vitamins c and a and led lights) and my scars have been filling in dramatically. I read someone mention somewhere that they could see the bottom of the scar they had rolled--that's what's happened with me too! For a while i was freaked out because it looked like my scars were just getting bigger, but in reality i guess they really were remodelling.

Thanks to everyone for their great advice and encouragement! I plan to continue on with the regimine as long as possible...wish I'd thought to take some before pics so I could have started an acne.org journal but maybe it isn't too late for that?

I was thinking about starting some mild peels for my pores and oiliness during my six weeks in between rolling sessions. I am wondering if the collagen rebuilding process would be disturbed by the peels or if it would be okay because the peeling is happening on the surface...anyone have any thoughts on this? I thought salicylic, lactic or glycolic acid only may be alright.

Good to hear. I keep telling people to get the LEDs, they are KEY here.

I will reply to other questions over the next few days. I'm going to construct my step by step guide for dermarolling soon. I think it is by far the most effective treatment you can do at home and actually even in a clinic or dermatologists at the moment aswell. It is superior to lasers when used in combo with the LEDs and topicals.

Keep going people, stay strong your results will come eventually.

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Hey Lamarr,

sorry that I have to write you individually, but I got no answer onto my last questions in the LED toppic and I hope that I can get it this way (your mailbox is full so please don't note this sentence). I ask among other things which needle is the better one for needling:

1. BD MICRO FINE+ lancets 33G 0,20mm Becton Dickinson GmbH

2. BD MICRO FINE+ lancets 30G 0,30mm Becton Dickinson GmbH

I have to know this, because I will get my LED from Ledman in the next days and so I hope that I can start my needling treatment on the next weekend. I heard that needles, which have a gauge more than 0,25 mm can create further scars. What do you think about that? What does the declaration 33G/30G mean - maybe the penetration depth? How long did you wait, before you got your package from the LED man?

My last deals with the treatment technique: How did you avoid to deep needling (I mean more than 2 mm/ I remember that your needle with the stopper was 3 mm long) Thanks for your help.

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About 5 weeks ago i used some 0.4mm 28G lancets on my temple. The depth i went was 3mm, I have definetly seen an improvement and the scarring is not as deep.

I just have a few questions:

1)Is it okay for me to needle again this week.

2) how deep should i go for scarred pores on my nose.

3) the leds are alot of money, if i am seeing an improvement without them should i not buy the Leds. OR will i see a bigger improvement with them.

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Hey Lamar, thanks for the information on hypertrophic scars. What would you do in my case where my raised scars are also hyperpigmented? I have read somewhere on this board that the vinegar method works for hypertrophic scars... what do you think about that? I don't think I can afford anymore equipment at the moment (LLLT) and finally... do you think needling/LED light my raised and colored scars will make it any worse or help at all? Thanks for your time, I really appreciate it.

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i used needling like 2 years ago, it improved my scar about 30% - but as i didnt know a smuch as i do now, i didnt take any vitamines and didnt use a led - this time i will purchase a led, guess the yellow one? and some tattoo needles.

what i also did is, i started with taking 1-2 vitamin c and zinc pills per day.

should i also buy a vitamin c creme or do you guys think this is enough?

also i dont think iam gona purchase a dermaroller, since i dont got scars all over the face, but mainly 3 on areas..or is it recommend to use dermaroller .. even if i would touch alot of unscarred skin..??!

few days ago i bought hansaplast scar patches, shall i put them on the scars? iam kinda curious what things you could use together to get the best result.

gave me some new hope...

thankful regards

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i used needling like 2 years ago, it improved my scar about 30% - but as i didnt know a smuch as i do now, i didnt take any vitamines and didnt use a led - this time i will purchase a led, guess the yellow one? and some tattoo needles.

what i also did is, i started with taking 1-2 vitamin c and zinc pills per day.

should i also buy a vitamin c creme or do you guys think this is enough?

also i dont think iam gona purchase a dermaroller, since i dont got scars all over the face, but mainly 3 on areas..or is it recommend to use dermaroller .. even if i would touch alot of unscarred skin..??!

gave me some new hope...

thankful regards

Since I started rolling I've been using vitamin c and a topicals (as well as taking them orally)...it does get a little expensive after a while tho. I did find a place with instructions to make cheap homemade topicals...

*Moderator edit, URL removed - read the board rules. *

There are instructions for a few other topicals, including tumeric and vitamin b5. I haven't tried either, but the (very easy) vitamin C works just fine for me! Advice I have seen from other make-your-own topicals websites have included adding glycerin (you can get it very cheap even from walmart) to moisturize if you have just rolled or if your skin is dry.

Hope that helps! :)

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I did some needling on my scars yesterday and now those scars are red and raised(big red bumps) looking worse than before. Is this a good sign? And how long will these red bumps last? Thanks.

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I did some needling on my scars yesterday and now those scars are red and raised(big red bumps) looking worse than before. Is this a good sign? And how long will these red bumps last? Thanks.

~1 week ago i needled also, it was also swollen and above the other skin level - so overall i think thats a good sign.

as far as i can say, the scar isnt swollen anymore, red ofcourse... if it stays like this it has improved about 30%+

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Strelok, how long were those bumps there for?

it began to dissapear quite fast, took the swelling about 2-3 days to cpmpletly go

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Will answer all questions and write up a step by step guide later on today. I just wanted to quickly say, i think everyone who is undergoing scar revision should purchase one of the full spectrum energy efficient lightbulbs that you can get. The are much better than sitting under your standard yellow or flourescent lighting, they give off the full spectrum of the sun, just hardly any UV rays. So you get all the beneficial wavelengths and none of the bad!! i think they are so good for general health and especially skin health, think about it... our skin is the largest organ and all comes in direct contact with light, i think it is a very good supplement for the LED therapy, plus you are saving on your energy bills!!

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Dermarollers and needles

1.5mm derma roller (2mm for advanced rollers and if you want to take a slight increase in risk of infection or other potential side effects) personally I feel the results from a 2mm roller are better and will be better than a 1.5mm roller for most, but I do believe there is a slight increase in risk of side effects, although this is minimal. I prefer the 3 line or 4 line rollers that you can get; they are easier to apply the right pressure for penetration and to get the correct penetration depth across the whole face.

For the more stubborn and deeper scars I recommend the BD Micro-Fine Pen Needle 31 G x 5mm. I used to recommend using stoppers with these, but if you are careful in not penetrating the full 5mm, making sure you use between 3-4mm and not directly in at 90degrees, but at angles so you don’t penetrate to the full depth then you should be fine. Practice this on your arm before hand ( I recommend practicing on the arm for all stages of needling including the topical anesthetic, use of Dermaroller etc.

To clean your rollers firstly dip the roller in 70% isopropyl alcohol for about 10-15 minutes, then dip in Hibicleanse for 5 minutes or so. Using one of the UV-C disinfection devices is also a good idea.

Skin Preparation

EMLA is to be used, under an occlusive dressing for at least 1 hr (Cling film or saran wrap for you Americans). I personally use a small home Dermaroller i.e. 0.2 mm needle length before i apply the EMLA to increase absorption. I think people should try with just the occlusion and EMLA first though, if you can tolerate the pain then don’t bother with the smaller roller before hand, this way less EMLA will be entering the blood stream.

For disinfection I use a combination of 70% isopropyl alcohol, and hibicleanse/hibiscrub.. To pre the skin, again a combination of isopropyl 70% wipes, then cleaning with hibiscrub for several minutes and rinse THOROUGHLY, should be sufficient.

I always keep a tube of Bactroban ointment handy for any potential breakouts or infections. The Hibicleanse can also be used as a cleanser for a few days before and after dermaroller/needling to help prevent breakouts. Don’t use hibiscrub or alcohol in the first few days post dermaroller or needling though.

Oral supplements

The two supplements I recommend are vitamin C, at least 1000mg daily preferably 2000mg for several (split this into several doses throughout the day) months post dermaroller/needling. Another good supplement is red wine/grape seed extract (iherb have a very good red wine extract by doctors best). A multivitamin can’t hurt but for those of you who have taken Accutane I would find a multivitamin WITHOUT vitamin A.

Topicals

Now everyone prefers different topical, people know my preference i.e. terproline. I think it is a very good topical and I will always recommend it till something better comes along. If your skin agrees with retionds you may like these, but I don’t recommend starting these at the same time as needling/Dermaroller until you know how your skin reacts. Don’t use topical Retinoids if you have taken accutane in the past few years, or until you know how your skin responds to topical Retinoids. Topical Vitamin A the same applies.

Topical vitamin C (ascorbic acid) is another good one which I like. You need a good 15 or 20% solution and it needs to be the right PH. Check up on these things.

Copper peptides I have tried and wasn’t a big fan of but they did seem to refine my pores slightly, I haven’t used long term but again some people really like them.

Keep topical simple, don’t use too many of them it will only confuse matters. Don’t start topical in the middle of starting needling or dermaroller.

If you are using a topical to keep your acne under control, then you should probably keep using it. I personally recommend light therapy if you have active acne though as it won’t irritate the skin like some topical can.

Light therapy

Now this is one of the most important stages. I recommend everyone use light therapy, a combination of yellow (590 nm) red (660nm) and infra red (880nm) is best. You can use each separately or a combination of each. Some people believe using each separately is best. I use the 660/990 together and the yellow separately.

For acne you need the blue frequency at or around 405-420nm. The Beauty skin device is very good for acne.

Every day for the first few weeks or every other day at least. You need to reach the correct level of energy (joules per cm squared) we aim to hit about 6 joules. So you need to keep the distance down to about an inch or so from the skin and use them for approximately 5 minutes per are if you are using the LED mans devices.

You need to read up on each of these topic areas, I can’t go into enough detail and there will always be questions or variables which you can generally find the answers to out there, by searching. I love giving advice to people but when the questions are easy to find the answer to and they are repeatedly continuously it get a bit annoying.

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i really hope this works.

would be sad if your just a friend of theledman or the ledman himself.. who knows - no offense at all, just thinking about various scenarios

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hey lamar i think it would be a good idea if you edited your original post and paste the step by step guide there so people can see it on the front page instead of having to search through all these pages.

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hey lamar i think it would be a good idea if you edited your original post and paste the step by step guide there so people can see it on the front page instead of having to search through all these pages.

Good idea bro, think i will get a mod to stick it at the top of the forum...

i really hope this works.

would be sad if your just a friend of theledman or the ledman himself.. who knows - no offense at all, just thinking about various scenarios

Bro you don't have to use the LED man atall, some people are using alternative LED devices. ask anyone else who has used him though, they will vouche for him and his products.

I push certain needles and terproline aswell but i can't be friends with all the people that produce these can i?

People are getting good results so i think that speaks for itself....

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Lamar I just thought of something... you said that the LED lights induce collagen production and raised scars are caused by excessive collagen production... So would using these lights on raised scars make it worse? I ask this because I have scars that are raised and colored at the same time and I've been needling/doing light therapy with these raised colored scars...is this bad?

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Lamar I just thought of something... you said that the LED lights induce collagen production and raised scars are caused by excessive collagen production... So would using these lights on raised scars make it worse? I ask this because I have scars that are raised and colored at the same time and I've been needling/doing light therapy with these raised colored scars...is this bad?

It depends bro, if you have keloid scarring then i would say it was bad....but if you have hypertrophic scarring with some hyperpigmentation then you should be ok.... I have seen people have success on raised red scarring that WASN'T keloid.

Go slowly at first...

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