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What if we are wrong about huge amounts of omega 3's?

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from a wikipedia articles full of references on omega 3 fatty acids, especially EPA and DHA found in some fish oil supplements and in fish we eat. For those of you who don't quite understand, i explain it some towards the bottom

Health risks

In a letter published October 31, 2000, the United States Food and Drug Administration Center for Food Safety and Applied Nutrition, Office of Nutritional Products, Labeling, and Dietary Supplements noted that known or suspected risks of EPA and DHA n−3 fatty acids may include the possibility of:

Increased bleeding if overused (normally over 3 grams per day) by a patient who is also taking aspirin or warfarin. However, this is disputed.

Hemorrhagic stroke (only in case of very large doses)

Oxidation of n-3 fatty acids forming biologically active oxidation products.

Reduced glycemic control among diabetics.

Suppression of immune and inflammation responses, and consequently, decreased resistance to infections and increased susceptibility to opportunistic bacteria.

An increase in concentration of LDL cholesterol in some individuals.

Subsequent advices from the FDA and national counterparts have permitted health claims associated with heart health.

Cardiac risk

Persons with congestive heart failure, chronic recurrent angina or evidence that their heart is receiving insufficient blood flow are advised to talk to their doctor before taking n−3 fatty acids. It may be prudent for such persons to avoid taking n−3 fatty acids or eating foods that contain them in substantial amounts.

In congestive heart failure, cells that are only barely receiving enough blood flow become electrically hyperexcitable. This, in turn, can lead to increased risk of irregular heartbeats, which, in turn, can cause sudden cardiac death. n−3 fatty acids seem to stabilize the rhythm of the heart by effectively preventing these hyperexcitable cells from functioning, thereby reducing the likelihood of irregular heartbeats and sudden cardiac death. For most people, this is obviously beneficial and would account for most of the large reduction in the likelihood of sudden cardiac death. Nevertheless, for people with congestive heart failure, the heart is barely pumping blood well enough to keep them alive. In these patients, n−3 fatty acids may eliminate enough of these few pumping cells that the heart would no longer be able to pump sufficient blood to live, causing an increased risk of cardiac death.

NOW WAIT! before you slaughter me, i just want to induce some discussion and learning. and don't stop your fish oil supplements or anything. i'm not saying that at all. i'm just a smart, educated person who wants to know more about things i haven't experienced yet. plus i think i know the answer

these articles suggest DHA and EPA omega's from fish oil lead to complications with

1) already sick people that have diabetes and heart disease- hopefully none of us

2) most likely people taking huge and unnecessary amounts of fish oil (FDA doesn't set a dose or % daily value for things like this, so this is subjective)

3) people using fish oil who do not also take measure to protect against biologically active oxidation products (fancy talk for free-radicals that can damage cells and cause cancer. protective measures would include antioxidants like vit c and e)

But what about the part that says DHA and EPA cause reduced resistance to opportunistic bacteria? opportunistic bacteria is usually already present in your body and is usually harmless until it finds a way to attack. and believe me, it's always working on that. the way DHA and EPA from fish oil allows for this is by the main reason we acne suffers love it- it reduces inflammation. but it also reduces our immune response. even a simple cold can last longer and lead to a sinus infection- opportunistic bacteria are just waiting!

has anyone had any of these side affects from FISH OIL ONLY? increased incidents of colds, sinus infections, stomach flu, diarrhea? what i'm really looking for is someone who knows their body and has been able to prevent this through dosage and antioxidants and maybe a few more supplements like MSM or DMSO.

now, lets talk- what do you think?? i want encourage all discussion, but please keep it from being vague or defensive. or any questions about what i said, message me

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these articles suggest DHA and EPA omega's from fish oil lead to complications with

1) already sick people that have diabetes and heart disease- hopefully none of us

Before making this conclusion, I would try to find the sources for the statements about heart disease and diabetes, and then try to analyze them subjectively. You shouldn't only trust what a Wikipedia article says.

2) most likely people taking huge and unnecessary amounts of fish oil (FDA doesn't set a dose or % daily value for things like this, so this is subjective)

Actually, there is an RDA for EPA and DHA.

3) people using fish oil who do not also take measure to protect against biologically active oxidation products (fancy talk for free-radicals that can damage cells and cause cancer. protective measures would include antioxidants like vit c and e)

Find a study that prove that free radicals cause cancer. Then, find a study that states that Vitamin C and Vitamin E do anything for your cancer. I bet you'll have a hard time.

Just keep in mind that when people start taking fish oil, they're generally advised to also reduce the amount of omega-6 fatty acids they eat, because it's usually excessive. The net effect would be that the oxidation rates would be the same, or lower.

But what about the part that says DHA and EPA cause reduced resistance to opportunistic bacteria?

In gigantic doses (15+ grams a day), EPA and DHA will suppress the immune system, sure. But the most I've seen recommended on this site is about 7 or 8 grams, which is a big dose, but is not going to suppress your immune system to the point that bacteria will grow wherever they want.

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Actually, there is an RDA for EPA and DHA.

whoops, i must still be in the dark ages, i haven't looked it up since the craziness started years ago. sorry bout that. just to clarify the FDA recommends 3 grams per day, 2 to come from supplements. straight from the FDA website about omega 3's.

Find a study that prove that free radicals cause cancer. Then, find a study that states that Vitamin C and Vitamin E do anything for your cancer. I bet you'll have a hard time.

ok, here is where i get a litte confused and would really want to know how you feel and what you think about this. what's your take? message me if you want, so we don't get too much off topic here.

to clarify, i did say preventative measures against free radical damage would be antioxidants like vit c and e. unfortunately, yes, they can't cure cancer. anyone else who has questions about the relationship between free radicals, cancer and antioxidants- take a look around for yourself and see what you find. anything that is suggested to reduce the risk of cancer and damaged cells /cell function couldn't hurt as long as it is taken responsibly and in the right doses.

Just keep in mind that when people start taking fish oil, they're generally advised to also reduce the amount of omega-6 fatty acids they eat, because it's usually excessive. The net effect would be that the oxidation rates would be the same, or lower.

In gigantic doses (15+ grams a day), EPA and DHA will suppress the immune system, sure. But the most I've seen recommended on this site is about 7 or 8 grams, which is a big dose, but is not going to suppress your immune system to the point that bacteria will grow wherever they want.

what about people who are different? i'm so sensitive to bacterial infections, i've been battling them all my life. i've finally found a few fantastic ways to restore my hearing and sense of taste and smell due to nasty respiratory infections. i don't want to take the risk of losing them again. but my acne needs treating too and i know the properties of omega 3's can help.

has anyone had any of these side affects from FISH OIL ONLY? increased incidents of colds, sinus infections, stomach flu, diarrhea? what i'm really looking for is someone who knows their body and has been able to prevent this through dosage and antioxidants and maybe a few more supplements like MSM or DMSO.

i'm hoping someone out there who is like me can give me some guidance and support about how i can work around this, before it happens!

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this stuff has all been well documented on here before, and it has also been established that taking "huge amounts" of omega 3 is completely unecessary. It is good for people to know its affects on the blood and inflammation responses of the body to decide if it is at all risky for them but for 90% of people it isnt, and is a much needed supplement.

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honestly I find fish oil a bullshit and useless supplement from personal experience. If you look at this board, many people seem to have negative experiences it with acne, despite "theoretical" claims. sure, it may have to do with the supplement brand, who knows.

look up lipid peroxidation....

But i do like fish.

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it goood to question this, and yes mega dosing for along time, say more then a month is probably not good, in fact i dont think you need all that much of fish oil, you could probably take 4 pills a week and be all good, just so long as you watch you o6 intake. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

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honestly I find fish oil a bullshit and useless supplement from personal experience. If you look at this board, many people seem to have negative experiences it with acne, despite "theoretical" claims. sure, it may have to do with the supplement brand, who knows.

look up lipid peroxidation....

But i do like fish.

bad fish oil is not good, if you are going to take it, pay for the good stuff.

It would be stupid though to write it off as bullshit though before you understand it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EFA_to_Eicosanoids.svg

if you mean bullshit as in its not going to cure your acne, yes you are right it is not, but it can improve it. Its just something that may help that is all, nothing groundbreaking, but more logical then an enema!!

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Until a complete study verifies the effects of omega-3s on acne (there is one currently on trial), I will stick with my personal experience: fish oil is not effective for acne. I have no faith in anti-inflammatorys in effectively clearing acne. The drug zifloton (sp) did not make it through phase 2. Cortisone injections work through inflammation modulation. I have had over 200 in my whole life. The cysts that get injected disappear but come back later to haunt me. I realized that even if the inflammation is cooled down, it makes no difference if the pores remained clogged and keep clogging. In fact, I find that inflammation actually is the REASON my acne heals. The cysts that blow up and go through all the stages of inflammation are the ones that don't haunt me again.

Just a rant. I don't think fish oil deserves all the hype as a "cure-all." Perhaps I should say the hype behind fish oil is bullshit.

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Until a complete study verifies the effects of omega-3s on acne (there is one currently on trial), I will stick with my personal experience: fish oil is not effective for acne.

You might as well give up on that one, as fish oil has managed to help some people immensely. The majority? Perhaps not.

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I'm not sure what you mean by that. But we'll see when the study comes out--hopefully it has a big sample size. Then again, the study includes fish oil, zinc and green tea extract---but again, we'll see. As my acne has been flaring up and down through the years, I've begin to put less trust in what works for others and even what works for myself. With all the hype surrounding fish oil, I find a placebo effect highly possible. I have read many posts on here who say they get cysts whenever they take even the highest quality fish oil. Sigh, I'm getting more skeptical and less hopeful everyday.

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Until a complete study verifies the effects of omega-3s on acne (there is one currently on trial), I will stick with my personal experience: fish oil is not effective for acne. I have no faith in anti-inflammatorys in effectively clearing acne. The drug zifloton (sp) did not make it through phase 2. Cortisone injections work through inflammation modulation. I have had over 200 in my whole life. The cysts that get injected disappear but come back later to haunt me. I realized that even if the inflammation is cooled down, it makes no difference if the pores remained clogged and keep clogging. In fact, I find that inflammation actually is the REASON my acne heals. The cysts that blow up and go through all the stages of inflammation are the ones that don't haunt me again.

Just a rant. I don't think fish oil deserves all the hype as a "cure-all." Perhaps I should say the hype behind fish oil is bullshit.

i think i understand what you are explaining about inflammation thing, but what you mean is the ones that come to a head instead of staying a lumpy hard type of cyst with no head.

yes whatever hype you have been sold, is 90% bullshit, in the beginning i was pumping it up a bit because i was excited as usual, due to the logic behind it, but it was merely an hypothesis to be tested, it was a minor success for me, success being defined as improvement, not a cure.

A massive thread that becomes pinned somehow begins to symbolize the amount of effectiveness it will have, it is a bit deceptive for those who dont reason very well. Then they get dropped way down and say fish oil is total bullshit, when its not at all, its just your expectations were way to high to begin with.

This process will happen again and again for all the newbies trying to figure something out, high unsubstantiated, unreasonable expectations and devastating disappointments. Go through about 100 of these and now you become a hardend vet, but the dissapoinments dont stop there, now your expectations just arent as high as they once were, the falls arent as devastating:)

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If you think that I am referring to some thread, then please don't misunderstand. I'm talking about almost 100 percent of the books on acne/diet (I've read quite alot, i'm sure you have also). I'm talking about all the websites on the internet. I'm talking about the fish oil craze that went on in the 90s, when the whole medical community was jumping up and down about how fish oil is the cure all for every disease--only to find disparity in results according to their expectations. I'm talking about dr. perricone's outlandish claims in his deceptive best-selling acne book that pushes fish oil like crazy. :naughty:

I'm just a bitter old teeanger : )

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