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I did not mean to insult the moderators here at all. I think the website is great. But yes, if they think a thread promotes dangerous activity they will shut it down. I was reading some guys log last night about megadosing vitamin A (not much different from this thread) and it was closed by staff relatively quickly. Not saying its right or wrong, just saying it happened.

Adam 15, you should be taking them with meals, preferably meals high in fat. This is critical for maximizing absorption of these vitamins. (they are fat soluble)

i could understand that logic as something experimental like that which is known to be potentially dangerous and to let a thread like that continue may just start an unhealthy trend so they decided to stop it, that seems fairly reasonable. Same reason why they dont let people talk about getting illegal accutane, they dont advocate it because it is dangerous, especially when young kids get involved. but there doesnt seem to be any bias with this site as far as dissing pharma companies or the medical industry.

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Adam 15, you should be taking them with meals, preferably meals high in fat. This is critical for maximizing absorption of these vitamins. (they are fat soluble)

Bring on the full english breakfasts eh; this I shall enjoy! :D

ed: oh unfortunately my order didn't arrive today, hopefully tomorrow then ^-^.

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I did high doses of Vitamin A as well, and it definitely helped.

I have been using Dan's BP lotion for many years and it kept a lot of the pimples at bay, but I could never quite make it to "100% clear". The acne got better with age (I am now 27) but it never quite stopped - it just went from teenage acne to mild adult acne.

Anyway, about six months ago, I heard about vitamin A and acne, and I figured what the heck. I took 100,000 to 150,000IU a day for about 4 months, with a little break in between. I was reluctant to go any higher because there can be some serious consequences with vitamin A toxicity. However, my understanding was that 100,000IU per day is at the upper end of the still relatively safe range for short periods of dosing.

My skin became less greasy, and the pores on my nose shrunk a little bit. I haven't had a full-blown pimple in a long time, and if I keep up with the BP lotion, I can keep all of the whiteheads away. I have become a bit lazy about applying it though, since my skin is so good now. As far as I could tell, I had zero negative side effects.

Anyway, I'm a believer in the Vitamin A treatment. I don't know how well it would work for anyone else, especially since my acne was pretty mild compared to most people, and I wouldn't say it was a 100% cure for me - I still need the regimen pretty regularly. However, I do attribute it with being what finally got me 100% acne free. I certainly wouldn't recommend it outright to anyone (your body, your risk - do your research), but I do think that it might be useful for some people.

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random thought, I think this may possibly even be safer then accutane with less side effects.

Currently accutane is 13 cis retinoic acid which the body normally makes in certains quantitys from vitamin a in the diet. The problem with accutane therapy is that when you ingest it and it enters your blood stream its in unusually high quantitys and gives lots of side effects as it has a chance to effect other areas of the body where it is not needed at such quantitys.

So even now the industry is trying to develop a class of drugs called retinoic acid metabolizing blocking agents or ramba's that inhibit the enzyme which breaks down retinoic acid at specific places in the body to regulate its amount, this will massively reduce side effects increasing levels of retinoic acid only where the body usually needs it.

But with a&d treatment, i would say that the only side effects would be from high quantitys of vitamin a and d in the blood stream, but if they both complement each other then taking them simultaneously eliminates the side effects of toxicity, and possibly by achieving a higher level of vitamin a, the body may be able to increase the amount of retinoic acid at certain sites due to the intial substrate, vitamin a, being present in high quantities, although the amount of retinoic acid that would be formed would be limited to the quantity of enzyme that converts it out of vitamin a, so while i think side effects are less then accutane, Im still not to certain that the levels of retinoic acid can go as high as accutane therapy to be as strong as the blood levels only need to outnumber the enzymes which breaks it down, vitamin a and d would still be able to increase retinoic acid content to some degree but its got to fit through the small front door first, or rather its dependant on the enzyme which creates retinoic acid, whereas with accutane there is no limit to how high levels of RA can reach in the blood, its only hurdle is the enzyme that breaks it down which is easily solved by taking a higher dose.

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Interesting post, AutonomousOne1980!

What is the enzyme? And can you find it as a supplement - my question being - which is safer, higher dosage of Vitamin A and D; or lower dosage of Vitamin A and D with enzyme supplement (or supplement that increases production of this enzyme); or does the body automatically increase production of this enzyme upon detecting high levels of Vitamin A?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

edit: Lol, just looked up Polar Bear liver... ~15,000 IU per GRAM! Holy moly! No wonder people who've eaten it got ill! A human liver weighs 2-4% of total body weight - if this is the same for a polar bear... an entire polar bear liver would weigh (using 600kg and 3%) 18Kg, that's 18,000*15,000: 270,000,000 IU of Vitamin A. Wow! Makes sense, since I read a 1/4 - 1/2kg portion of polar bear liver would carry between 3mil and 13mil IU Vitamin A. 375 * 15,000 = 5,625,000 IU. Crazy :).

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Interesting post, AutonomousOne1980!

What is the enzyme? And can you find it as a supplement - my question being - which is safer, higher dosage of Vitamin A and D; or lower dosage of Vitamin A and D with enzyme supplement (or supplement that increases production of this enzyme); or does the body automatically increase production of this enzyme upon detecting high levels of Vitamin A?

Or have I got the wrong end of the stick here?

edit: Lol, just looked up Polar Bear liver... ~15,000 IU per GRAM! Holy moly! No wonder people who've eaten it got ill! A human liver weighs 2-4% of total body weight - if this is the same for a polar bear... an entire polar bear liver would weigh (using 600kg and 3%) 18Kg, that's 18,000*15,000: 270,000,000 IU of Vitamin A. Wow! Makes sense, since I read a 1/4 - 1/2kg portion of polar bear liver would carry between 3mil and 13mil IU Vitamin A. 375 * 15,000 = 5,625,000 IU. Crazy :).

you may be confusing digestive enzymes with other enzymes in the body i mean there are perhaps thousands of them in your body doing many things, they arent going to put these in pill form, im not sure they would survive the digestion process, but i do not really know that.

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Of course I also take a lin the form of dairy and meat (I take a separate magnesium supplement). I don't believe that vitamins alone can do the trick, but if they can they don't do the trick well. Just make sure to get enough of the three main minerals: calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus. Milk contains plenty of phosphorus (heck, most foods do) and calcium. You can get magnesium from whole grains and vegetables but you have to deal with phytates and oxalates that hampers absorption.

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What do you guys and girls think about taking these two products:

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/vf/labels/004293HB.pdf

http://www.hollandandbarrett.com/vf/labels/001253HB.pdf

Along with the Vitamin A and D? Lots saying about the three minerals on here, but how about a B-complex? They're both on 75% off at the moment till monday, so I could get both for a measly £12 inc. delivery - and they'll last 4 and a half lunar months (125days); taking 2x each/day, that's 10p/day: Hardly breaking the bank!

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Of course I also take a lin the form of dairy and meat (I take a separate magnesium supplement). I don't believe that vitamins alone can do the trick, but if they can they don't do the trick well. Just make sure to get enough of the three main minerals: calcium, magnesium, and phosphorus. Milk contains plenty of phosphorus (heck, most foods do) and calcium. You can get magnesium from whole grains and vegetables but you have to deal with phytates and oxalates that hampers absorption.

Thanks for "quoting" my previous post and treating it like your own.

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I thought this was interesting:

Kligman AM, Mills OH Jr, Leyden JJ, Gross PR, Allen HB, Rudolph RI.

Oral vitamin A (retinol) is generally not considered useful in the treatment of acne vulgaris. We conducted a study which showed that retinol was indeed ineffective at the usual doses of 50,000 to 100,000 IU daily. Retinol was highly efficacious in doses of 300,000 units for women and 400,000 to 500,000 units for men, toxicity was slight and limited mainly to skin (xerosis) and mucous membranes (cheilitis). The danger of hypervitaminosis A in this dosage range has been exaggerated. Retinol is a valuable drug for treating stubborn, severely inflammatory acne vulgaris. It is administered until the disease is brought under control, usually within three to four months. Then the dosage is progressively reduced relying on conventional drugs to keep the disease in abeyance.

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it's interesting though. i was talking to a famous dermatologist who teaches at UCLA. She suggested that I take high dose vitamin A (300,000) also. She says that vitamin a was ignored because accutane came into the scene. Vitamin A is just as effective but is not toxic to the body.

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The main thing about vitamin A compared to accutane is that vitamin A doesn't lead to remission of acne. You still have to maintain it with topical means.

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I'm currently taking 120,000 IU / day; 10,700 IU / day of D3. I'm not too sure - if I were to take 300,000 IU / day (I wouldn't take 400-500k o.O), i'd definitely book a liver function test for around the 2month mark.

Thing is everyone's liver is different - I was reading about toxicity and it can range from between 25,000 IU to ~1.3million IU / day taken for months. The average being 120,000 IU. So this definitely isn't a cure for everyone - and liver test is very important incase you're one of those people whose liver can't take that much!

I'm going to be taking a B-complex and Zinc, Magnesium & Calcium supplement when it arrives next week - in normal doses of course. Zinc is meant to help greatly with whiteheads anyway. But gee - looking over the H&B site, there's so many different supplements! I mean there was one called "Horny Goat Weed" under the same section as the Zinc, M & C. That is, the "Preconception" section. You see, all their pregnancy supplements are 75% off at the moment :P!

Thing is, the toxicity symptoms of Vit A and Accutane are identical. Roche can't trademark a Vitamin - so they changed it a bit. Imo, Vitamin A megadosing is just as safe (and as dangerous!) as Accutane. Otherwise you wouldn't have to have liver tests on Accutane! Anyway i'm off to bed now, sleep is important in skin-healing too! xD

My log is here: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Vitamin-a...og-t210951.html so you can see what I end up doing :). I think i'll stay on under 200K IU for at least a week as a break-in dose. But I don't see point in spending any longer at a lower dose, since I was hoping it'd avoid an initial breakout - but it hasn't. I mean geez, i've even got 3 spots on my thigh - I haven't had any spots there for like a year! I'm just hoping it's how I think it is: everything that was gonna come in the next few weeks, coming all at once from the increased epidermal turnover (interesting) - then slowly getting clear over next few months. I hope, anyway!

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But I think accutane and vitamin a are much different in terms of what they do to our body and how our body handles it.

This is what the professor told me:

"Accutane is toxic (synthetic compound, cis molecular configuration, not

metabolized by the body's enzyme systems, and kills brain cells, skin

cell, liver etc).

vitamin A is non-toxic until you get to 20,000 IU (natural compound, trans

molecular configuration, is metabolized by the body's enzyme systems, and

does not kill brain cells etc.)"

I'm currently taking 120,000 IU / day; 10,700 IU / day of D3. I'm not too sure - if I were to take 300,000 IU / day (I wouldn't take 400-500k o.O), i'd definitely book a liver function test for around the 2month mark.

Thing is everyone's liver is different - I was reading about toxicity and it can range from between 25,000 IU to ~1.3million IU / day taken for months. The average being 120,000 IU. So this definitely isn't a cure for everyone - and liver test is very important incase you're one of those people whose liver can't take that much!

I'm going to be taking a B-complex and Zinc, Magnesium & Calcium supplement when it arrives next week - in normal doses of course. Zinc is meant to help greatly with whiteheads anyway. But gee - looking over the H&B site, there's so many different supplements! I mean there was one called "Horny Goat Weed" under the same section as the Zinc, M & C. That is, the "Preconception" section. You see, all their pregnancy supplements are 75% off at the moment :P!

Thing is, the toxicity symptoms of Vit A and Accutane are identical. Roche can't trademark a Vitamin - so they changed it a bit. Imo, Vitamin A megadosing is just as safe (and as dangerous!) as Accutane. Otherwise you wouldn't have to have liver tests on Accutane! Anyway i'm off to bed now, sleep is important in skin-healing too! xD

My log is here: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/Vitamin-a...og-t210951.html so you can see what I end up doing :). I think i'll stay on under 200K IU for at least a week as a break-in dose. But I don't see point in spending any longer at a lower dose, since I was hoping it'd avoid an initial breakout - but it hasn't. I mean geez, i've even got 3 spots on my thigh - I haven't had any spots there for like a year! I'm just hoping it's how I think it is: everything that was gonna come in the next few weeks, coming all at once from the increased epidermal turnover (interesting) - then slowly getting clear over next few months. I hope, anyway!

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Im on accutane but a low dose (i've only taken 120mg total so far) I've always been a bit leery of taking it to begin with.

Do you think I should stop and try this instead?

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Im on accutane but a low dose (i've only taken 120mg total so far) I've always been a bit leery of taking it to begin with.

Do you think I should stop and try this instead?

Yes definitely, the best way to cure your acne is diet and no chemicals on face, vit A and D could help but too much is risky.

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Im on accutane but a low dose (i've only taken 120mg total so far) I've always been a bit leery of taking it to begin with.

Do you think I should stop and try this instead?

since you have already started the accutane process and know you can get it through your derm, you have the option to tell him you decided to wait or changed your mind for the moment. As he can always put you right back on it.

Take note this is an experimental treatment, and not proven the way it should be proven, but by all probability it could help you as the reasoning behind it is fairly decent. even hypothesis that are well reasoned can produce limited results, so just be aware that this is experimental, but even accutane is experimental when you think about it as its succes varies from patient to patient but has a decent track record for results.

Im on accutane but a low dose (i've only taken 120mg total so far) I've always been a bit leery of taking it to begin with.

Do you think I should stop and try this instead?

Yes definitely, the best way to cure your acne is diet and no chemicals on face, vit A and D could help but too much is risky.

we are loooking for causation, not bandaids or interventions.

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Here is what i've had pop up since starting my vitamin A & D. Pic is in my log. It could be due to the increased epidermal turnover - thus an initial breakout of taking the vitamins, or it may be due to using a tea tree wash on my chest, as it's anti-bacterial thus leaving P.Folliculitis to thrive. I'm hoping it's the first, since just having one thing to treat is much simpler! Or it could be i'm just allergic to something!

Of course my chest was never completely clear, and had a few little red dots, but not this many.

ps. Oh btw it's my bday!! So i'm gonna be an attention wh-- [badword :D] about it, and tell you all :>!. So i'm off to get drunk and party in a few hours :P.

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What additional ingredients are in the vitamin a pills? they might irritating...

happy b-day! forget about acne!

Here is what i've had pop up since starting my vitamin A & D. Pic is in my log. It could be due to the increased epidermal turnover - thus an initial breakout of taking the vitamins, or it may be due to using a tea tree wash on my chest, as it's anti-bacterial thus leaving P.Folliculitis to thrive. I'm hoping it's the first, since just having one thing to treat is much simpler! Or it could be i'm just allergic to something!

Of course my chest was never completely clear, and had a few little red dots, but not this many.

ps. Oh btw it's my bday!! So i'm gonna be an attention wh-- [badword :D] about it, and tell you all :>!. So i'm off to get drunk and party in a few hours :P.

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Hey dingo i've read this entire thread with great interest- i'm currently taking supplements of vitamin c and e, so would you recommend stopping these in favour of high dose vitamin a+d? How lond did this treatment take for you to have clear skin?

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