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Everyone should watch this video

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What the frak is wrong with you guys. This man is a crackpot at best, and ridicules himself so often it was quite a funny watch.

Within the first minutes, he is rejecting evolution (even naming creation explicitly later), the effect of genes, and talkes nonsense about newtonian physics. It gets even better in the second part, where he tries to link quantum mechanics to holism. Or the part with the atom (Bohr model, lol) where he puts a negative charged particle into the nucleus (!), and depicts the rotation of the atom as the reason for the emitting wavelength. Best part was the EPR effect, where he states it could connect people. Quote: "prayer can be send ot other people and influence their biology".

But there is no way I can remember the enourmous amount of bs in that talk.

He's constantly mixing the physical term of energy with that religious/spiritual form of "energy", which is a typical property of pseudosciences. He also never explicitly tells what kind of waves he's talking about the whole time (electromagnetic? Yeah right, a tuning fork emits electromagnetic waves). Unbelievable how someone can actually take that prick serious after the first 60 seconds

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What the frak is wrong with you guys. This man is a crackpot at best, and ridicules himself so often it was quite a funny watch.

Within the first minutes, he is rejecting evolution (even naming creation explicitly later), the effect of genes, and talkes nonsense about newtonian physics. It gets even better in the second part, where he tries to link quantum mechanics to holism. Or the part with the atom (Bohr model, lol) where he puts a negative charged particle into the nucleus (!), and depicts the rotation of the atom as the reason for the emitting wavelength. Best part was the EPR effect, where he states it could connect people. Quote: "prayer can be send ot other people and influence their biology".

But there is no way I can remember the enourmous amount of bs in that talk.

He's constantly mixing the physical term of energy with that religious/spiritual form of "energy", which is a typical property of pseudosciences. He also never explicitly tells what kind of waves he's talking about the whole time (electromagnetic? Yeah right, a tuning fork emits electromagnetic waves). Unbelievable how someone can actually take that prick serious after the first 60 seconds

its good to see someone is here to dismantle this man and his ideas, hopefully with skill.

Although he does seem to make extraordinary claims you cannot rule him out as a complete quack, he is actually highly likely to have the knowledge he claims to have due to his experience studying cell biology at accredited universitys, so he is not the type of person that i would suspect as being a quack, quacks are hacks that have little to no likelihood of ever knowing what they claim to know at all, although that doesnt mean he cant make errors and may also be susceptable to his own ego and perhaps desire to make a few bucks selling a book well anything is possible but in this case it doesnt seem probable. For a man to have dedicated most of his life for the pursuit of reliable knowledge is the least likely person to be peddling mythological stories.

If you could please explain further the precise reasons you find this guy to be a hack so that everyone can understand, that would be great i still dont fully understand your position.

Background info-

Dr. Lipton began his scientific career as a cell biologist. He received his Ph.D. Degree from the University of Virginia at Charlottesville before joining the Department of Anatomy at the University of Wisconsin’s School of Medicine in 1973. Dr. Lipton’s research on muscular dystrophy, studies employing cloned human stem cells, focused upon the molecular mechanisms controlling cell behavior. An experimental tissue transplantation technique developed by Dr. Lipton and colleague Dr. Ed Schultz and published in the journal Science was subsequently employed as a novel form of human genetic engineering.

In 1982, Dr. Lipton began examining the principles of quantum physics and how they might be integrated into his understanding of the cell’s information processing systems. He produced breakthrough studies on the cell membrane, which revealed that this outer layer of the cell was an organic homologue of a computer chip, the cell’s equivalent of a brain. His research at Stanford University’s School of Medicine, between 1987 and 1992, revealed that the environment, operating though the membrane, controlled the behavior and physiology of the cell, turning genes on and off. His discoveries, which ran counter to the established scientific view that life is controlled by the genes, presaged one of today’s most important fields of study, the science of epigenetics. Two major scientific publications derived from these studies defined the molecular pathways connecting the mind and body. Many subsequent papers by other researchers have since validated his concepts and ideas.

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its good to see someone is here to dismantle this man and his ideas, hopefully with skill.

Well I'm studying physics, so I should at least have a faint idea about it, in contrast to that guru. Some of the entertaining points of the video:

7:45 part 1

There are 3 assumptions that science is based on that are totally wrong at this time. [...] and third: the assumption that the Darwinian evolution provided for the existence for the biosphere as we see it. this again is another mistake in our assumption. [...] what we find now is that your genes will adept to your beliefs.

rejecting evolution ... nuff said

4:00 part 2

the bs about newtonian and quantum physics is put together so weird that I don't know where to start. He basically tries to apply microscopic rules (smearing of atoms edges because of the uncertainty principle) to the macroscopic world ("you are connected to your environment"), which is impossible. There is a physical principle (Correspondence principle) which says that quantum mechanical systems act like classical systems for a large number of particles - and humans have large numbers of atoms! Therefore you can't apply quantum mechanics for everyday stuff. Even if you run against a wall for 1000 times, you'll never tunnel through it, although you could if you were an electron.

quantum mechanics is a bit more complicated as one might know from discovery channel.

equation_21.gif

6:25 part 2

My personal favorite ... comedy gold:

This is a theoretical model of an atom. Let's say the red side of the nucleus is negative, and the green side is positive. If I put a voltmeter on this side [red side] of the atom, what am I gonna read? Positive! And if I read on the other side? Negative! And if I read it at the middle in between both sides? Neutral! [...] But here's the truth: The atom actually are spinning, and as they spinning, if I put a voltmeter over here, what's am I reading? Positive, negative, positive, negative ... ! [...] If I now get a printout of the voltmeter, what does it look like? Then you see this ... this wave [...] and they vibrate at different frequencies. Each atom has a unique characteristic vibrational frequency. and it broadcasts it because the energy is not held at the edge, the energy travels throughout the environment.

physics 101: In a very (!) simplified view, "An atom has an electron cloud consisting of negatively charged electrons surrounding a dense nucleus. The nucleus contains positively charged protons and electrically neutral neutrons." (Wikipedia) - So much for negatively charged nucleus particle. He's also completely ignoring electrons, and claims that the whole atom is a rigid, spinning construction. Look at the Video, the animation is priceless!

The electrons are are in different "orbits" around the nucleus. When an electron absorbs energy, it may jump to a higher orbit ("Quantum leap"). It may also (for not so easy reasons) jump to a lower orbit, and emit photons. Photons can be interpreted as electromagnetic waves with a specific frequency. This frequency is proportional to the energy the electron absorbs. So the frequency of the emitted energy is entirely dependent on the energy difference of the transition levels. To calculate these may be easy or not ... depends on the atom and the levels and how precise you want to do it, because this is a very simplified version of the atomic model which isn't really used anymore.. But for the love of Jesus: It doesn't depend on how fast the atom is "spinning" ;)

I'll skip the breaking glass, EPR Effect and energy babble here for now. hopefully this is enough to convince.

science_shirt_front_thumb.png

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Hey guys, I'm glad some of you found this video worthwhile.

I am not a scientist. I cannot prove or disprove any of the things that Bruce Lipton says. However, I personally feel that much of the information he presents makes sense and has been validated in my life through personal experience.

I am also going to point out that if you believe science can explain the extremely complex organism that is our body, you have a lot of learning to do.

Here are a few important points that the video talks about that are definitely backed even by science:

  1. Our mind and our body are interconnected and inseperable. Your mind's health affects your body's health and visa versa.
  2. Belief affects your physiological response to a situation. Placebo effect anyone? This is not even new information.
  3. A positive outlook and a trust in your body's ability to heal is far more powerful as a healing tool than any dietary changes.

Here is a link to another (more mainstream) source of information related to this topic.

From a personal perspective. I have seen much evidence to support some of these views.

Mental Stress has always been correlated to disease. Stress is the MOST unhealthy thing you can do to your mental and physical health.

I believe the following are extremely important (if not necessary) for mental and physical health to be achieved:

  1. Know who you are
  2. Love who you are
  3. Be part of a group that loves and accepts you for who you are
  4. Be true to yourself
  5. Stand up for yourself
  6. Project and concentrate on loving every moment of life and taking it as a gift and a learning experience

I will be compiling research to add to the original post and I would appreciate it if anyone here who does their own research could PM it to me so I can be sure to add it to this post.

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its good to see someone is here to dismantle this man and his ideas, hopefully with skill.

Well I'm studying physics, so I should at least have a faint idea about it, in contrast to that guru. Some of the entertaining points of the video:

7:45 part 1

There are 3 assumptions that science is based on that are totally wrong at this time. [...] and third: the assumption that the Darwinian evolution provided for the existence for the biosphere as we see it. this again is another mistake in our assumption. [...] what we find now is that your genes will adept to your beliefs.

rejecting evolution ... nuff said

4:00 part 2

the bs about newtonian and quantum physics is put together so weird that I don't know where to start. He basically tries to apply microscopic rules (smearing of atoms edges because of the uncertainty principle) to the macroscopic world ("you are connected to your environment"), which is impossible. There is a physical principle (Correspondence principle) which says that quantum mechanical systems act like classical systems for a large number of particles - and humans have large numbers of atoms! Therefore you can't apply quantum mechanics for everyday stuff. Even if you run against a wall for 1000 times, you'll never tunnel through it, although you could if you were an electron.

quantum mechanics is a bit more complicated as one might know from discovery channel.

equation_21.gif

6:25 part 2

My personal favorite ... comedy gold:

This is a theoretical model of an atom. Let's say the red side of the nucleus is negative, and the green side is positive. If I put a voltmeter on this side [red side] of the atom, what am I gonna read? Positive! And if I read on the other side? Negative! And if I read it at the middle in between both sides? Neutral! [...] But here's the truth: The atom actually are spinning, and as they spinning, if I put a voltmeter over here, what's am I reading? Positive, negative, positive, negative ... ! [...] If I now get a printout of the voltmeter, what does it look like? Then you see this ... this wave [...] and they vibrate at different frequencies. Each atom has a unique characteristic vibrational frequency. and it broadcasts it because the energy is not held at the edge, the energy travels throughout the environment.

physics 101: In a very (!) simplified view, "An atom has an electron cloud consisting of negatively charged electrons surrounding a dense nucleus. The nucleus contains positively charged protons and electrically neutral neutrons." (Wikipedia) - So much for negatively charged nucleus particle. He's also completely ignoring electrons, and claims that the whole atom is a rigid, spinning construction. Look at the Video, the animation is priceless!

The electrons are are in different "orbits" around the nucleus. When an electron absorbs energy, it may jump to a higher orbit ("Quantum leap"). It may also (for not so easy reasons) jump to a lower orbit, and emit photons. Photons can be interpreted as electromagnetic waves with a specific frequency. This frequency is proportional to the energy the electron absorbs. So the frequency of the emitted energy is entirely dependent on the energy difference of the transition levels. To calculate these may be easy or not ... depends on the atom and the levels and how precise you want to do it, because this is a very simplified version of the atomic model which isn't really used anymore.. But for the love of Jesus: It doesn't depend on how fast the atom is "spinning" ;)

I'll skip the breaking glass, EPR Effect and energy babble here for now. hopefully this is enough to convince.

science_shirt_front_thumb.png

the excessive passion in his voice was for me intitially a slight sign of too much invested self interest in his own ideas, which is usually a sign of errors to come, but there is still some interesting things he had to say and seemed overall fairly solid, but according to what you pointed out about that atom illustration, seems like hes totally wrong on that one, what the fuck is the point of that? almost seemed like an infomercial. But then agian i have to ask myself whats with this guys credentials?? they are great!!! not like im using his background to accept every statement he makes as true, ill always judge everything anyone says on the strength of their arguments and on a claim by claim basis.

But all this may prove is that he knows less about physics then he does about cell biology, even then the dude is just presenting various hypothesis or rather his opinions and you either consider its truthfullness and its usefullness or you dont.

can we rule him out as a total quack yet or just a dude that doesnt know shit about physics? and wants to sell books now?

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one thing occured to me when he showed those pics of those dancers and immediatly came to the conclusion that they were younger just because of their beleifs, it hadnt occured to me immediatly but there is no way you can ever really prove that is why they are the youthful and healthy, perhaps its because they get alot of exercise!!! or perhaps that isnt even their real ages?? either way the problem is that he immediatly just passes it of as true, a man of science would not do something like this so carelessly, he should say it is merely his own hypothesis to be tested and NOT pass it off as just an immediate fact because he thinks he is so smart, its his opinion or tentative explanation not an obvious fact.

i missed this initially but now it pisses me off when i think about it, thats pretty irresponsible of him.

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Dude I know what your saying. And I really appreciate this conversation. BUT, that crazy guy/video is one of the things that keeps me from wanting to tell anyone I know about my recent foray into meditation and such.

Some of you may have seen that slightly physics-y doc. "What the Bleep Do we know?!" And I just got the new book "the intention experiment" from the library and skimmed it. Plus this google vid. Now, this upsets me too, because in these things, people who have 'sort of' studied high level sciences MIX wrong info, and weird out-there ideas into their discussions about particle physics, cell bio, and meditation and mind-body research, therefore almost completely negating your initial interest and their credibility!!

This always happens, and then I end up not being able to share with anyone I know because theyll eventually get to the nutjob parts and be like..uhhh hold on, what the hell is this, where when Ive read it I mentally seperate out the useful parts and shake my head at the bull****.

Like the 'intention experiment' book, it has a tad in common with oprahs' fav the secret, which everyone makes fun of, just a TAD, and the only parts I found useful were the very beginning about meditation research, and an end chapter telling about how to send intentions out in your meditations.

Anyway Im hopeful that respectful scientists start to give credit to these ideas of how our thoughts influence our biology, and produce some damn decent books/movies without the pseudoscience and nonsense talk mixed in, so people can trust it, which would make it more accepted by society and help so many people!

~~~~~~~~~

On that note, has anyone here had any success in helping super negative/anxious friends or maybe parents with stress conditions get turned on to meditation? I really want to help my parents and a friend feel better but they are ignorant of it and I feel like Im just preaching to them and being gay if I say " just take a deep breath, calm down", etc. MAybe I should start a new thread tho with that.....

; )

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Here are a few important points that the video talks about that are definitely backed even by science:

  1. Our mind and our body are interconnected and inseperable. Your mind's health affects your body's health and visa versa.
  2. Belief affects your physiological response to a situation. Placebo effect anyone? This is not even new information.
  3. A positive outlook and a trust in your body's ability to heal is far more powerful as a healing tool than any dietary changes.

1. There is no such thing as a mind. The thing closest to it is the brain, which obviously is connected to the body ... duh

2. Placebo effect works very well, nice thing you realize that these voodoo priests rely on it, and there is no "magic" involved

And a so called scientist rejecting evolution is commonly referred to as a "crackpot" ;) . I don't have the slightest idea what drives a phd to change over too voodoo stuff, but money might be a reason. There's nothing wrong in doing so, as long as there are lemmings following even the most ridiculous things. Flat Earth Society, creationists, religions ... this is just another iteration of organized nonsense.

I haven't seen "What the Bleep Do we know?!", but what I read is that it tries to connect quantum mechanics with spiritual garbage.

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Hey MalboroMan,

Thanks for taking palce in this discussion. It's good to have someone's input that seems to have a knowledge or physics.

I am not here to get in an internet battle. I am here to better myself and hopefully help other people better themselves. I hope you can help me do that :)

1. There is no such thing as a mind. The thing closest to it is the brain, which obviously is connected to the body ... duh
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Here are a few important points that the video talks about that are definitely backed even by science:

  1. Our mind and our body are interconnected and inseperable. Your mind's health affects your body's health and visa versa.
  2. Belief affects your physiological response to a situation. Placebo effect anyone? This is not even new information.
  3. A positive outlook and a trust in your body's ability to heal is far more powerful as a healing tool than any dietary changes.

1. There is no such thing as a mind. The thing closest to it is the brain, which obviously is connected to the body ... duh

2. Placebo effect works very well, nice thing you realize that these voodoo priests rely on it, and there is no "magic" involved

And a so called scientist rejecting evolution is commonly referred to as a "crackpot" ;) . I don't have the slightest idea what drives a phd to change over too voodoo stuff, but money might be a reason. There's nothing wrong in doing so, as long as there are lemmings following even the most ridiculous things. Flat Earth Society, creationists, religions ... this is just another iteration of organized nonsense.

I haven't seen "What the Bleep Do we know?!", but what I read is that it tries to connect quantum mechanics with spiritual garbage.

is it possible you are using a few things this guy got wrong to disregard everything else he is saying???applying the inaccuracies of one idea to be applied to all the rest? if that were the case, thats irresponsible, perhaps its your own ego that also feels good about calling him a crackpot rather then saying, ok ok this guy has some things wrong that i was able to point out.

Its just not logical to disregard everything a person says based on a few things that were wrong plus with his level of credibility, he still carries alot of weight, you truthfully cannot get anymore credible then this guy, that HAS to be worth something otherwise you better drop out of college right now because that education you are paying so dearly for, which bruce lipton has been apart of all his life, is obviously a big waste of time, how much more experiance and education is a person supposed to have before you lend them your ears?

Im not defending him at all but i dont even think you are credible enough to disregard everything he says, even though you were able to point out some goofy things he was talking about physics can logically never be applied to his other claims. And hell if i know if anything he says is 100% factual, i dont have a lab to confirm everything he has seen and i never will and that is why i consider his experiance and education to consider the possibility that what he is saying carries a decent amount of weight.

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This is something that has been debated to death. It is basically the foundation of philosophy. Let's just say there is no definite answer to this problem. Some people believe that consciousness is nothing more than neural impulses - to me that's like saying music is nothing more than sound waves vibrating at different frequencies.

The brain/soul question is somewhat like evolution: There is overwhelming evidence for it, and yet there are people doubting it - but willingly believing utter nonsense (creatonism, religion, whatever). Philosophy is dead, it's been replaced by science for quite some time. The so called philosophers in today's universities don't know what they're talking about. Just listen to them when they're talking about the "philosophical implications" of quantum mechanics. Very funny stuff ;)

And music is just sound waves, or am I missing something? oO

This is not a valid argument. Just because voodoo priests rely on it, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. There is a reason why there is a placebo group in every controlled scientific experiment - it is a very real and documented phenomenon that has profound implications if you are willing to open your mind.

"voodoo" wasn't meant literally. I like the word and use it to refer to nonsense. And yes, placebos are very real, that's what I meant. The only thing that's working in this "beliefs can change your genes" blabla IS the placebo effect ... nothing else.

Evolution is a theory. It is a very solid theory with tons of research to back it up, but our current understanding of life is not 100% correct. Do not forget that there was a time when it was considered a known fact that the earth is flat.

And evolution ... yes it's a theory. The word 'theory' is used for all scientific knowledge. It shouldn't be read as "just a guess", but rather as "a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise verified through empirical observation." (Wikipedia) Yes, evolution may be wrong. But the world wouldn't collapse in that case, it will just be replaced by a better theory. That's the way science works. But as of today, evolution is together with quantum mechanics and special relativity the best tested (!) scientific theory. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to be skeptical about it, let alone call it plain wrong without a given reason. (lipton anyone?).

is it possible you are using a few things this guy got wrong to disregard everything else he is saying???applying the inaccuracies of one idea to be applied to all the rest? if that were the case, thats irresponsible, perhaps its your own ego that also feels good about calling him a crackpot rather then saying, ok ok this guy has some things wrong that i was able to point out.

Its just not logical to disregard everything a person says based on a few things that were wrong plus with his level of credibility, he still carries alot of weight, you truthfully cannot get anymore credible then this guy, that HAS to be worth something otherwise you better drop out of college right now because that education you are paying so dearly for, which bruce lipton has been apart of all his life, is obviously a big waste of time, how much more experiance and education is a person supposed to have before you lend them your ears?

Im not defending him at all but i dont even think you are credible enough to disregard everything he says, even though you were able to point out some goofy things he was talking about physics can logically never be applied to his other claims. And hell if i know if anything he says is 100% factual, i dont have a lab to confirm everything he has seen and i never will and that is why i consider his experiance and education to consider the possibility that what he is saying carries a decent amount of weight.

What more can I do ... I debunked several of his main points, the evolution alone should be enough to set off everyone's "crackpot alert". If you want I can continue with his trash talking about the EPR effect, where he's again simply wrong.

I don't have a PhD, that's right. I'm just a lousy physics student. But I do know that there are no electrons in an atomic core, I can derive the correspondence principle, I calculated a myriad of energy levels in quantum systems, I do know what the Schrödinger-, Dirac-, Klein-Gordon equations are telling... You're blindly believing him because of his PhD title. You must consider the possibility that he switched to "totally nuts" mode at some point in his life. If you don't believe me that's totally fine, ask Wikipedia, or call a local physics professor (a high school student should be enough for the "spinning atom" stuff), whatever.

It's not like the points I debunked are side notes, they're the basis for his "beliefs can change you" thingy. And that's plain crap (sorry for all those words, but the English language offers numerous insults, and they beg to be used! ;)

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[

is it possible you are using a few things this guy got wrong to disregard everything else he is saying???applying the inaccuracies of one idea to be applied to all the rest? if that were the case, thats irresponsible, perhaps its your own ego that also feels good about calling him a crackpot rather then saying, ok ok this guy has some things wrong that i was able to point out.

Its just not logical to disregard everything a person says based on a few things that were wrong plus with his level of credibility, he still carries alot of weight, you truthfully cannot get anymore credible then this guy, that HAS to be worth something otherwise you better drop out of college right now because that education you are paying so dearly for, which bruce lipton has been apart of all his life, is obviously a big waste of time, how much more experiance and education is a person supposed to have before you lend them your ears?

Im not defending him at all but i dont even think you are credible enough to disregard everything he says, even though you were able to point out some goofy things he was talking about physics can logically never be applied to his other claims. And hell if i know if anything he says is 100% factual, i dont have a lab to confirm everything he has seen and i never will and that is why i consider his experiance and education to consider the possibility that what he is saying carries a decent amount of weight.

What more can I do ... I debunked several of his main points, the evolution alone should be enough to set off everyone's "crackpot alert". If you want I can continue with his trash talking about the EPR effect, where he's again simply wrong.

You're blindly believing him because of his PhD title.

read my words carefully and you will see that conclusion is contradicting my exact attitude towards this mans words, i said i CANNOT prove anything he says is true unless i have a lab to see what he may or may not have seen for myself, knowledge is derived from empirical observations, words are merely representations of the physical world.

I am not defending this guy,i dont want to fuck him, I just want to evaluate his words responsibly.

He can fucking die for all i care, just let me hear him out in all his possible quackiness before he does die!!!ha

All a belief is, is an emotion of certainty, a perception or awareness of a perceived fact, if you are tied up in a chair by some some thugs with a knife under your throat how will those perceptions of certainty change your physiology??? you are going to be scarred shitless and adrenaline will be pumping and so forth so then again we can conclude that emotions of certainty(beliefs) can effect your physiology.

same goes for if you wake up everyday and you are CERTAIN things will not change and you become depressed, you have a belief about something, this can affect you bodys functioning, this guy isnt THAT crazy.

And i still dont want to fuck him.

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It seems that people are milling over the fact that acne persists (in those prone) regardless of mental state. Growing up, sure, acne did affect my attitude, but in the beginning when it was mild I actually liked it because I considered it a sign that I was becoming a man (puberty) and a lot of people had it. It was much, much later that it started causing me grief because it had become uncontrollable.

People with acne aren't all stressed out of their minds because of it, the body is very capable of dealing with all kinds of stressful situations and I seriously doubt that not worrying about your acne is going to make it magically disappear, at least that never worked for me. I know this because my acne was extremely mild at first and I didn't think about it until it worsened.

I can actually clear my skin or make my breakouts worse through diet, regardless of what mood I'm in. This I know and can test repeatedly in a very predictable way. Stress can be very deteriorating but it doesn't get that serious unless you are truly taxing your system.

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You guys are arguing over those same things everyone always does. Congrats.

Do you realize the guy might have a few good MAIN IDEA's, if you ignore all the weird crazy stuff? Which is how it usually is with this topic. Like I was saying, too bad someone who isnt nuts isnt talking about that, w/o the wrong stuff.

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All a belief is, is an emotion of certainty, a perception or awareness of a perceived fact, if you are tied up in a chair by some some thugs with a knife under your throat how will those perceptions of certainty change your physiology??? you are going to be scarred shitless and adrenaline will be pumping and so forth so then again we can conclude that emotions of certainty(beliefs) can effect your physiology.

same goes for if you wake up everyday and you are CERTAIN things will not change and you become depressed, you have a belief about something, this can affect you bodys functioning, this guy isnt THAT crazy.

Your body will change (adrenaline level etc.), but never will your genes (which he clearly stated)

Do you realize the guy might have a few good MAIN IDEA's, if you ignore all the weird crazy stuff?

Why do you want to believe him so desperately? In the talk it was obvious that he has a major lack of understanding of virtually all scientific fundamentals his main points are built on. So why do you still try to find at least a bit of truth in the remains? What is it which makes this guy so appealing?

It's the same thing which makes for example "traditional Chinese medicine" so attractive. Scientifically it's not even worth talking about, but it claims to cure all your problems by sticking a needle in your bum. It tells you all your expensive and distasteful pills are poisoning you, and you can be healed by altering your "energy flux".

Same with most forms of religion. They're promising forgiveness for your sins, a place in heaven, rebirth and all kinds of weird things, although they've made themselves ridiculous throughout history, and teach funny tales about an old man in sandals who could walk over water. And still over 85% of the world population believe in a religion and a god.

And now comes this guy, lipton, even claiming to rely on scientific fundamentals, which are clearly nonsense, and there are still people trying to believe him and discredit the critics. I stand no change against such stubbornness. Just accept that he's a priest who teaches a religion you have to believe in, rather than a scientific theory. I'm all fine with another bunch of lemmings following another dogma, just don't claim it makes any sense.

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The fact is nobody on this website is in a position to disprove with certainty every statement he makes unless they have reproduced his experiments, that is a fact.lets not speculate too much, i guess we could continue to makes fools of ourselves but recognize this, its merely your personal opinion. except for the few facts about the atom that were rather easy to look up and disprove, reproducing his experiments, well not so easy.

He may be a quack he may not be, big deal though but you have to wonder how evolution happens, is it an adaption to the environment?? isnt the environment experianced through our perceptions?? isnt anything we are certain of a perception?? isnt anything we are certain of a belief?? could there be any possiblity these certaintys have an effect on our genes?? why the fuck not, is it a well known fact yet?? is radio technology possible?? it was not only possible now it is a well known reality, few of us are ever in a position to know what is entirely possible, do you STILL even know that much about how a radio or television works?? not everybody does until you look it up, but the scientists who studied this stuff were in a position to know things people couldnt dare dream of, it is entirely within the range of possiblity that this dude knows something, i cannot ever prove it to be true but as a healthy skepticist, a cannot commit to absolute doubt, nor can i commit to absolute belief, we suspend belief untill all information is gathered, we are no where near that point yet to come to an ultimate conclusion.

One more thing for marlboro man, there is a new science called nutrigenomics which is based on studying how our diet interacts with our genes over our life time, they hope within this research they will be able to read peoples genetic profile, asses certain risks they have and assign an optimal diet they should follow through a lifetime to help avoid disease. so it is well known the inner dietary environment has an effect on our genes. The reason why i mention this is because it is related to your environment, well inner environment rather although this doesnt ensure your beliefs have an effect on your genes, it is a small supportive reason for bruces argument.

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The fact is nobody on this website is in a position to disprove with certainty every statement he makes unless they have reproduced his experiments, that is a fact.lets not speculate too much, i guess we could continue to makes fools of ourselves but recognize this, its merely your personal opinion. except for the few facts about the atom that were rather easy to look up and disprove, reproducing his experiments, well not so easy.

It wasn't just the atom, don't forget the babble about newton, quantum physics, evolution, gene altering, EPR. In fact I don't think there's much more in his talk. In between was mostly noise.

isnt anything we are certain of a belief?? could there be any possibility these certaintys have an effect on our genes?? why the fuck not, is it a well known fact yet??

An effect on our genes in a sense of "could change the effects our genes have on our body" maybe, but as of today there is nothing known in science that can change the actual genes, i.e. the AGCT-sequence. That's fact.

is radio technology possible?? it was not only possible now it is a well known reality, few of us are ever in a position to know what is entirely possible, do you STILL even know that much about how a radio or television works?? not everybody does until you look it up, but the scientists who studied this stuff were in a position to know things people couldnt dare dream of, it is entirely within the range of possibility that this dude knows something, i cannot ever prove it to be true but as a healthy skepticist, a cannot commit to absolute doubt, nor can i commit to absolute belief, we suspend belief until all information is gathered, we are no where near that point yet to come to an ultimate conclusion.

With Maxwell's electromagnetic theory at hand, radios were the logical consequence (and aren't very complicated devices by the way). For the genes, well it may even be possible at some time that there will be a way of altering them, be it through nanobots or whatever. The point is, his claim that they can be changed by pure belief is a bit clumsy, don't you think? Here's what this discussion is like so far:

Lipton: Hello there. My name is Lipton, I like spinning atoms. And by the way: Evolution is all wrong, genes can be altered, and here's how: your belief! G'day Mate

You: Well, that sounds like nonsense, you have no scientific basis to back it up, didn't know elementary physics. But hey, I like your tie, you might be right

Me: There are many reasons not to believe him, and his main point cannot be proved because he didn't say how it works (beliefs changing genes). So why believe him?

You: Why not? He might be right after all

Me: wtf

Again: why believe him? Of course he could be right. Of course most modern science could be wrong, and he the knight in shining armor rescuing the world from damnation. And to be correct, we must take even the most obvious crackpot serious to the end of mankind. But sometimes, you just have to to make a reasonable cut. I guess you also don't take every "the world ends tomorrow. Give me a penny for a place in my cloaked X-Wing" serious. But according to your attitude, you should!

Hope that made my point more clear

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People with acne aren't all stressed out of their minds because of it,

lol...wrong generalization to make. Go to the psychological forum then come back and tell me otherwise. And yes diet is still a major factor, its all about the well being of the mind AND body together.

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The fact is nobody on this website is in a position to disprove with certainty every statement he makes unless they have reproduced his experiments, that is a fact.lets not speculate too much, i guess we could continue to makes fools of ourselves but recognize this, its merely your personal opinion. except for the few facts about the atom that were rather easy to look up and disprove, reproducing his experiments, well not so easy.

It wasn't just the atom, don't forget the babble about newton, quantum physics, evolution, gene altering, EPR. In fact I don't think there's much more in his talk. In between was mostly noise.

isnt anything we are certain of a belief?? could there be any possibility these certaintys have an effect on our genes?? why the fuck not, is it a well known fact yet??

An effect on our genes in a sense of "could change the effects our genes have on our body" maybe, but as of today there is nothing known in science that can change the actual genes, i.e. the AGCT-sequence. That's fact.

is radio technology possible?? it was not only possible now it is a well known reality, few of us are ever in a position to know what is entirely possible, do you STILL even know that much about how a radio or television works?? not everybody does until you look it up, but the scientists who studied this stuff were in a position to know things people couldnt dare dream of, it is entirely within the range of possibility that this dude knows something, i cannot ever prove it to be true but as a healthy skepticist, a cannot commit to absolute doubt, nor can i commit to absolute belief, we suspend belief until all information is gathered, we are no where near that point yet to come to an ultimate conclusion.

With Maxwell's electromagnetic theory at hand, radios were the logical consequence (and aren't very complicated devices by the way). For the genes, well it may even be possible at some time that there will be a way of altering them, be it through nanobots or whatever. The point is, his claim that they can be changed by pure belief is a bit clumsy, don't you think? Here's what this discussion is like so far:

Lipton: Hello there. My name is Lipton, I like spinning atoms. And by the way: Evolution is all wrong, genes can be altered, and here's how: your belief! G'day Mate

You: Well, that sounds like nonsense, you have no scientific basis to back it up, didn't know elementary physics. But hey, I like your tie, you might be right

Me: There are many reasons not to believe him, and his main point cannot be proved because he didn't say how it works (beliefs changing genes). So why believe him?

You: Why not? He might be right after all

Me: wtf

Again: why believe him? Of course he could be right. Of course most modern science could be wrong, and he the knight in shining armor rescuing the world from damnation. And to be correct, we must take even the most obvious crackpot serious to the end of mankind. But sometimes, you just have to to make a reasonable cut. I guess you also don't take every "the world ends tomorrow. Give me a penny for a place in my cloaked X-Wing" serious. But according to your attitude, you should!

Hope that made my point more clear

hey marlboro man, your a smart dude, whats your theory on acne?

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I have no bloody idea, that's why I'm here. But I hope you didn't seriously think it was just "bad thinking", which could be healed by praying oO. Well it actually might work due to the placebo effect, but that'll only work for a few believers

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You know what's funny?

One day, I just woke up with clear skin and it stayed that way for a month (even through my entire cycle). But everyday, I'd wake up thinking "oh, there's no way the clear skin will last. I probably have about 10 pimples on my face".

It's almost like I'm expecting acne and unable to accept my clear skin.

Then what do you know, after a month, my face went to hell again.

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Go Autonomous!

shut up.

I have no bloody idea, that's why I'm here. But I hope you didn't seriously think it was just "bad thinking", which could be healed by praying oO. Well it actually might work due to the placebo effect, but that'll only work for a few believers

Dont undermine what has been said just to ridicule someone.

It's almost like I'm expecting acne and unable to accept my clear skin.

Thats the mental block that acne sufferers have that i've been talking about. How can anyone get clear if they cant accept or even visualize themselves clear???

For the record, my take on the whole little discussion: Notice I never endorsed the video or what he said, just that some of his ideas supported or validated some of mine. I only watched half of the first video. It was fucking boring. I dont know how the hell an atom is supposed to look or function, im a journalism major, so for most of what he was saying I was just thinking "whatever, yea, great, get to the point." The big ideas are whats important, which is why im staying out of petty arguments about details between people that hold very different beliefs. People have very different views, thats ok. All im saying is its pointless to discuss this with someone that doesn't believe in the existence of the mind. Dont argue about right or wrong. Just know what you believe and run with it.

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The big ideas are whats important, which is why im staying out of petty arguments about details between people that hold very different beliefs. People have very different views, thats ok. All im saying is its pointless to discuss this with someone that doesn't believe in the existence of the mind. Dont argue about right or wrong. Just know what you believe and run with it.

This has nothing to do with belief, this IS just about right or wrong. There is nothing more in our head than a brain, that's fact. Everyone who beliefs there's in a "soul" or some form of mystical singularity in there is wrong. Same of changing genes: impossible. It's that easy. It's called science. And it works.

If you don't accept that, it's your personal choice. But I think this forum is a place to discuss REAL issues on a scientific basis. Otherwise we could turn rename this into "voodoo central".

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