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Jolian

Leaving Everyday Minerals?

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Y'all, for the past month I've been considering not ordering from EM ever again because of this BS in which they've placed themselves. Personally, I've yet to have a truly "bad" encounter with them--thank God--but I'm seeing dozens and dozens of customers on EM's forums who are having serious problems with placing orders, finding out where their orders are at the moment, and then finally receiving their orders. It's been more than a month after their new site launched and their situation is still as awful.

What's even worse is how their CS and Carina herself has responded to their own customers. Deleting posts (especially Lutya's and some others from Slovakia), responding to inquiries with half--ssed answers, and even implying that their customers were liars, or were incompetent fools who didn't know how to place orders on the broken site that they, EM, generated themselves... I just don't feel I could give my money to a company that provides such awful service, or even recommend their products to people, such as I've done in the past. Seriously--how can I suggest people give their hard earned money to a company that I'm not even sure will even deliver the services I paid for?

Anyway, it's been a long journey to come to this point. I know I've recommended some EM products to people yesterday, but what I discovered a few hours ago was the straw that broke the camel's back (which, by the way, had nothing to do with me directly had something to do with a specific customer)--so I won't be buying stuff from them in the distant future.

I'm not sure if I will stop my patronage forever. I'm hoping this is just some fluke season they're having and that things will get better--but some of EM's responses are really difficult to forgive. *shrug* I'm not a veteran with make-up or with internet companies, so I'm not sure if I'm overreacting or not. What do you guys think?

Note: If anyone knows a good mineral makeup company that offers olive shades, please recommend :D .

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I think it's admirable that you are stopping your patronage if only temporarily. I can't believe a successful company like EM has such horrible customer service. I can kind of understand Carina's response, she's the creator/owner, right? I mean...she might not have the abilities to actually respond to customers and that's what it seems like, not to mention all the stress she's probably going through. She probably just doesn't like seeing her company bashed and becomes defensive...unfortunately, she's creating a poor image of herself and the company. She definitely needs to step back and let the appropriate employees with the right credentials deal with customers while she works on having the website fixed. I think she is taking on too much when an owner should foresee projects are going well which are beyond their capabilities. idk if I'm making sense but it is pretty sickening that they just really don't care, I'm sure if there was a problem with them getting money, though, they would.

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Jolian, I too think it's admirable that you will not give your patronage to a company that treats their customers the way that EM has recently. I think the saddest part of all, is that EM was once praised for their excellent customer service, the new website (I never thought there was anything wrong with the old one...) has created a nasty situation for all.

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i too think it's an admirable decision. as an ordinary consumer, our only weapon is our wallet. edm products are definitely not unique, there're so many alternatives out there, i'm sure you'll find a good substitute.

i've been comtemplating whether i should continue buying edm. i never had a problem with cs, so that's not i'm troubled with. rather, i'm concerned with safety issues. edm contains titanium dioxide and zinc oxide that's probably nano- or micro-sized (i emailed cs and waiting for answer). because it's so new, we just don't know how particles that small will affect the human body internally. what bothers me especially is that edm is a powder, we'll undoubtedly inhale some along the way. airborne nano-sized titanium dioxide and zo can potentially pose so many concerns even at low doses: absorption risk, reproductive toxicitiy, cancer mutation, respiratory effects. etc. that's why powdered sunscreen is not recommended for the ewg.

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredien...ingred06=726566

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i too think it's an admirable decision. as an ordinary consumer, our only weapon is our wallet. edm products are definitely not unique, there're so many alternatives out there, i'm sure you'll find a good substitute.

i've been comtemplating whether i should continue buying edm. i never had a problem with cs, so that's not i'm troubled with. rather, i'm concerned with safety issues. edm contains titanium dioxide and zinc oxide that's probably nano- or micro-sized (i emailed cs and waiting for answer). because it's so new, we just don't know how particles that small will affect the human body internally. what bothers me especially is that edm is a powder, we'll undoubtedly inhale some along the way. airborne nano-sized titanium dioxide and zo can potentially pose so many concerns even at low doses: absorption risk, reproductive toxicitiy, cancer mutation, respiratory effects. etc. that's why powdered sunscreen is not recommended for the ewg.

http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/ingredien...ingred06=726566

Who are the EWG? I'm as skeptical about non-profit groups as I am the FDA. There's so many groups & websites online that can make you seriously paranoid if you buy into it all. Powder sunscreens seem to be promoted more & more lately, so if they are really a true threat to health then I hope they get pulled soon.

I'll take a guess & say that walking outside and breathing Los Angeles' bad air pollution is probably more detrimental to my health....

About EM's customer service...I had a recent order that went smoothly, but I've also had an experience where the owner was nothing less than a condescending & rude b*tch when I had a problem. I think she's her own worst enemy in the growth of her company. The CS has been nothing but kind & helpful to me, and so I hesitate to boycott the entire company when I personally cannot say they've been unprofessional.... Let's face it too, you know some customers are morons & overly demanding, just as some of the EM employees & the owner have likely been rude & wrong also.

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Who are the EWG? I'm as skeptical about non-profit groups as I am the FDA. There's so many groups & websites online that can make you seriously paranoid if you buy into it all. Powder sunscreens seem to be promoted more & more lately, so if they are really a true threat to health then I hope they get pulled soon.

I'll take a guess & say that walking outside and breathing Los Angeles' bad air pollution is probably more detrimental to my health....

i know what you mean. but it's always good to be at least skeptical about what we're putting ourselves into. we have to breathe in air, pollution or not, but we can choose to be more careful with cosmetics. there're soooo many products on the market, why not choose a safer option backed by science. nanotechnology is so new, we just don't know the full extent of its effects. the particles are so small, therefore there's a potential risk of it absorbing into the skin. so far a few scientific studies have shown that it doesn't absorb thru the skin. i'm personally ok with using nano TD&ZO in lotions because it's cosmetically elegant and ok for sensitive skin. but the case is different with powders because it undoubtedly is inhaled.

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Y'all, for the past month I've been considering not ordering from EM ever again because of this BS in which they've placed themselves. Personally, I've yet to have a truly "bad" encounter with them--thank God--but I'm seeing dozens and dozens of customers on EM's forums who are having serious problems with placing orders, finding out where their orders are at the moment, and then finally receiving their orders.

Do you realize that the dozens and dozens of order problems were mainly from the launch special when they received and shipping something like over 40,000 orders? It kind of puts things in perspective.

As I understand it, they have had a lot of bogus emails (and even some posts) with people trying to take advantage of the situation while they are vulnerable - either to get free reshipments or worse, to interfere with their business operations and further harm their excellent reputation. It makes me sick really.

I have always had terrific customer service from them.

Last year after my first sample kit, I ordered too hastily and chose the wrong foundations. They were very nice about it and exchanged them at their shipping cost even though I had purchased them in a kit and it was totally my fault.

During the 20% off special I placed three orders and all were delivered just fine. A couple of the blushes were less then full and when I emailed customer service with the pictures, they promptly replied and issued me a refund to my credit card which way more than I had paid for them in the kit. That must have been before they started getting slammed with bogus emails though. I'm not sure of all the details about their email situation, (lots of fake emails, some kind of spam filter problem, plus tons and tons of duplicates) ...but they really need to get that fixed ASAP.

I also had a misunderstanding about something I ordered, and posted about it in the forum. Lisa took care of it right away.

I see them sorting through to find the legitimate problems and correcting them very quickly, usually at their own expense - like shipping overnight which is very costly.

They also hired four additional people to help clear up the mess, but you know it can take a while before the new hires are up to speed, and they could be making some mistakes too just because they're new and everyone's so busy. (Just going by what happens when my office hires new people.)

So in my observation and experience they have still been demonstrating the same great customer service to those who posted their order problems in the forum. It's unfortunate that they haven't been able to properly handle those issues by email though, because addressing dozens of order problems so publicly on the forum makes it look like the problems are much greater than they are.

At least you also have a lot of people posting that they received the reshipments plus extra gifts and are now satisfied.

It doesn't seem like some people pay any attention to those posts though. They only notice the posts of the people still in the process of having their issues researched and resolved.

I don't really get why someone would jump ship from a company that offers great products at amazing prices just because they can see the tiny fraction of a percent of orders that had some problem during a website transition period. Especially since they are being properly acknowledged and resolved as they are made aware of them. I don't see why refusing to order from them ever again is so admirable, but that's just me.

And yes, Howling Bells, the site is down for me too. Which makes me very worried since they have been having sabotage issues. I hope the site wasn't hacked.

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Definitely valid thoughts Maria, but you mentioned nothing of the way Carina has rudely replied to some customers who, like Jolian said, spend their hard earned money on EM. Deleting posts is suspicious and deceitful, why not just leave it up and reply with an explanation that could potentially make the company look better...more helpful

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I think deleting posts is a very bad policy and I don't like to see that happen.

I will say that even though that I posted a number of extremely critical posts on the forum, and none of them were ever deleted.

I did read about the Slovakia thing on the Yahoo EM group... and the person who posted about the incident there opened their post with something like "They're all a bunch of crooks"...

So if what was deleted was unfair, inflammatory, misleading, destructive... then I could somewhat understand it.

I don't know the specifics because I wasn't involved in any way.

They pay for the forum and it seems to me that they leave on there plenty of posts criticizing their own shortcomings for all to see. I don't know that I would do that if I were in the same position.

In my observation, there were a lot of misunderstanding about the Slovakia situation. It may have been at least partially due to the language barrier.

I read that whole thread, and I know that some of the Slovakian customers misunderstood why EDM wasn't shipping to their country. They said that since EDM had shipped there before, they had to be lying when they said they couldn't. They didn't seem to understand that it was a software/technical glitch that hadn't been sorted out that was preventing them from ordering online. It wasn't that EDM wanted to stop selling to people in Slovakia, but the website had a glitch that weren't able to fix yet... and EDM was being very upfront about it IMO.

If any posts were deleted containing erroneous accusations and misinformation that would further confuse people reading the thread with regard to what the actual situation was... then that I could understand. False information has a way of being repeated as fact.

Also... you can't always assume that Forum Admin purposely deleted certain posts. I have deleted my own posts on occasion after re-evaluating what I had posted. (I wondered if anyone would notice the missing posts and get their panties in a twist thinking they were deleted by EDM.)

I know that happened one time when a bunch of us got all irate that an entire thread had been deleted right in the middle of our debate... and it turned out the thread starter had deleted it.

Definitely valid thoughts Maria, but you mentioned nothing of the way Carina has rudely replied to some customers who, like Jolian said, spend their hard earned money on EM.
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Oh I don't know... maybe she's human or something? Maybe it was that time of the month and she was under a boatload of stress, exhausted from weeks of not sleeping, upset by the number of people trying to take advantage of the situation in some way and frustrated at being at the mercy of programmers that were obviously quite incompetent.

It always kind of amazes me when people demand absolute perfection from others. They must be way more perfect in their own lives than I could ever hope to be.

I think she's shown a lot of graciousness, kindness, restraint and generosity as Lisa (who's been filling in for her) has also. I doubt I would have been able to remain so calm and composed if I were her in that situation. YMMV of course.

No, she is consistently condescending and rude to customers. I have not seen that woman make a reply to any complaint without getting some snide remark in.

If she is so hyper-sensitive and temperamental, then she needs to back away from the customer service end of her business & stick to what she is good at: creating cosmetics. There is no excuse for her behavior and she is stupid to continue to interact with customers. I'm a creative type and I would never be in customer service because I don't have the temperament for it. No one can do it all.

The fact of the matter is, they are a business selling a product & customers have every right to demand satisfaction & good service. It's not the customer's problem if the customer service or owner is having an off day.

I don't think that every complaining customer is trying to take advantage of a situation either...come on. There are those who have valid complaints I am sure. I have had valid complaints in the past, and while the CS was great, Carina was ridiculous in her responses. She does basically tell people they are idiots when they have any problem.

I like EM and feel no reason to stop using it, but the owner/creator does her best to drive people away. I think it's best to deal with the CS through email when possible...having a forum for complaints seems like it's just asking for trouble anyway.

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omg Maria....okay yeah I understand we're not robots, but she shouldn't put herself under all that stress and give herself so many jobs...frankly, that's just dumb. A responsible owner of a successful, and somewhat large, company should hand those positions to others that are more capable and that are not as likely to be disrespectful to paying customers. I have never talked to someone with customer service that has treated me like Carina has treated others, that is unacceptable. If I were to tell a customer off, condescend them, or disrespect them in any way I would get fired...and I work for my parents. There is absolutely no excuse to be disrespected like that especially when you're just expressing your concern or asking questions. If a customer is wrong or just merely has a question, then the policies should be explained politely...period.

"Oh I have it rough...I don't want to explain what's going on or why our policies are the way they are...I'll just delete them so no one knows how negligent I can be" like seriously? that's okay?

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I think she is taking on too much when an owner should foresee projects are going well which are beyond their capabilities.

I agree. Their website's still crazy and she takes off to Costa Rica to expand the business. If your computer system can't handle that amount of orders, you shouldn't try to make the problem worse by adding new items. *sigh* Maybe the trip was scheduled before the launch.

edm products are definitely not unique, there're so many alternatives out there, i'm sure you'll find a good substitute.

Hopefully, I can. I've been doing some research on the internet and a lot of the brands either have too limited a selection or they have other ingredients, like micronized particles, I wouldn't want in my makeup. Right now, I'm thinking of purchasing chromium oxide green and adding it to yellow-based foundations so it would match with my olive skin.

what bothers me especially is that edm is a powder, we'll undoubtedly inhale some along the way. airborne nano-sized titanium dioxide and zo can potentially pose so many concerns even at low doses: absorption risk, reproductive toxicitiy, cancer mutation, respiratory effects. etc. that's why powdered sunscreen is not recommended for the ewg.

Luckily, they don't have micronized particles :dance: .

Do you realize that the dozens and dozens of order problems were mainly from the launch special when they received and shipping something like over 40,000 orders? It kind of puts things in perspective.

Yes. I was blown away when Carina stated how many orders they had received. Having your shipment get to you a few days late is one thing, but there are some ladies who haven't received their packages in weeks. Also, it's not as if there's some external factor which prevents them from fulfilling their end of the business bargain. There haven't been any tornadoes near Austin... and, yet, it's been one month since the launch and still they haven't fixed the ongoing issues people are having with contacting customer service.

If a customer has a problem, and your communication system is either shoddy or poorly organized, the quality of your customer service will still be horrible regardless of how nice and concerned your workers are. If you have 40,000 orders, ship all but 30 of them without issue, you probably won't get 39, 970 complaints. Yet there are 30 customers who are left stranded because their attempts to contact you aren't being answered, and they don't know how else to turn to. That's a gigantic problem waiting to happen, especially if more serious problems occur in the future, and--in my book--means you have bad customer service.

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Oh I don't know... maybe she's human or something? Maybe it was that time of the month and she was under a boatload of stress, exhausted from weeks of not sleeping, upset by the number of people trying to take advantage of the situation in some way and frustrated at being at the mercy of programmers that were obviously quite incompetent.

It always kind of amazes me when people demand absolute perfection from others. They must be way more perfect in their own lives than I could ever hope to be.

May I suggest that you stay far away from the customer service sector if you feel that that behaviour is at any time and for any reason acceptable.

Being under stress is absolutely no excuse for being rude to her customers. It's a very bad business move, perhaps she skipped the customer service lecture in Business 101.

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I did read about the Slovakia thing on the Yahoo EM group... and the person who posted about the incident there opened their post with something like "They're all a bunch of crooks"...

So if what was deleted was unfair, inflammatory, misleading, destructive... then I could somewhat understand it.

Rather than deleting it, I think what is better is to reply in a polite manner. It shows that you're patient with a rabid customer, and, as other people have said, doesn't look sneaky. If the deleted posts a Slovakian client re-posted were true, then Lisa bluntly accused her of not being an "EM customer" after the Slovakian lady wrote EM a very stern complaint. Responding to customers in such a manner was incredibly shameful. Rather than apologizing, those posts were deleted.

Also... you can't always assume that Forum Admin purposely deleted certain posts.

I visit the EM Yahoo group quite often, and it looks like you do, too. A handful of former regulars have said they deleted their accounts after their innocuous posts went poof. If the FA didn't mean to delete certain posts, he/she should state it instead of just sitting back and letting their members wonder where the messages went.

Maybe it was that time of the month and she was under a boatload of stress, exhausted from weeks of not sleeping, upset by the number of people trying to take advantage of the situation in some way and frustrated at being at the mercy of programmers that were obviously quite incompetent.

I have complete sympathy for people who reacted badly because they were stressed or had little sleep. But, seriously, the way she answers people makes me wonder if she's stressed and sleep-deprived most days of the year. I hope she realizes what she's been doing soon and, like Siouxsie mentioned, give the PR reigns to some one else.

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thanks for the link! i've been waiting for a response for days to no avail. hmmm, another sign of the cs being overwhelmed lately???...... :think:

but still though, i'm worried of inhalation regardless. do a simple inhaled zinc oxide risk (or titanium dioxide) on google. i'm still debating though, edm works great for my skin, and i don't wanna go back to liquid. oyyyyy....

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I was nosey and went for a peek!

Goodness me, I won't use them again after reading the incredibly sarcastic answers from the admin. If I had a problem with my order, I wouldn't want to deal with a company like that. So much for the 'customer always being right'!

If people get good service they may tell 1 person, if they receive bad service, they will tell 10.

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I actually ordered after their issues began, and I didn't have any problems. Maybe it was just me...I'd love to see their best service, because my first sample kit came two days after I ordered it. And they have the best shade range I've seen. And the prices are awesome... *sigh*

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It's really a shame that it's been so crappy there since the launch of the new site, and it's really a shame that Carina has such a bug up her ass. Now that my account problems seem to be solved (my last order went through smoothly enough), I can get what I need.

I still maintain that I love the product and I will probably stick with them until Carina outright rages against her customers (or me personally, though I don't feel like instigating anything), the product quality changes for the worse, or I am no longer able to order from them at all. Regardless of my continued loyalty to the company, I really can't blame anyone who decides to go somewhere else after having crappy experiences with both the admin and CS.

At the moment, I'm pretty much treating them as if they were a typical company whose employees are distanced from the customer. This means my expectations of good customer service have dropped. I simply pick what I want, make my order, and hope it gets here on time and safely like I do for any other online place I order stuff from. I will communicate with CS as little as possible because I have no expectations of them giving my good, succinct information. The only thing I expect from them is the product.

So now I'm removed from them as I'm pretending they're removed from me. I'm sad that it got to this point. It's really a shame. I do hope that they get it together. I really do.

If I do get to the point where I've had it with EM: I've looked into Meow cosmetics and they will likely be the first place I sample.

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What's even worse is how their CS and Carina herself has responded to their own customers. Deleting posts (especially Lutya's and some others from Slovakia), responding to inquiries with half--ssed answers, and even implying that their customers were liars, or were incompetent fools who didn't know how to place orders on the broken site that they, EM, generated themselves...

Yes, I had my posts deleted over a month ago. It was in a thread about "How happy are you with EM" or something like that. I posted about a problem that I had with an order, having to do with an email I received from Carina telling me my order had shipped when it didn't actually ship until 5 days after that date. I felt mislead and upset. I asked for some resolution, in the form of the 20% discount which was not in effect when I ordered but was when they finally processed and shipped my order TEN days later. This was a matter of $3.60. They refused and were very rude.

I did not say anything nasty or rude but just posted the facts about my situation. Other posters agreed that it was bad customer service. My posts, and the posts that agreed with me, were deleted, but the few that said I should shut up and worship EDM (essentially) were left. One very long time member was so upset that her posts were deleted that she deactivated her account. Fortunately, I have enough makeup to last me over a year but once it runs out I'll need to find an alternative.

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I just wanted to add that they are still deleting peoples posts at the forum. They started a trivia contest today and there were all kinds of glitches with it. There was a topic about the trivia contest and it was up to 7 pages. It then suddenly went down to 5 pages with most of the key posts of frustration deleted. Geez.

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With all the customer service issues they're still having, I don't understand why they're adding a trivia contest. What a waste of time.

I emailed CS about not getting an eyeshadow brush in my eyeshadow mini kit a few weeks ago. Never got a response. I read on the forum that CS told one lady that the brush didn't come with the kit - which is funny, since a lot of other people responded that they had received a brush in their kits. Whatever.

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