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macguyver

my take on scar revision from a nurse point of view

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I believe Acell is not approved by the FDA for human use, I understand that acne scars are a terrible thing, I also suffer from moderate/ severe acne, but I would not put this product on my face after co2 or dermabrasion procedure you don't know if it would impair healing, make the scar worst, or cause cancer. One of the best thing you can do for healing is just stay indoors keep the wound nice and moist, even after the scabs have fallen off. I've read in a recent medical journal that folic acid and creatine when applied to the face helps collagen remodeling. I'm waiting till fall to have co2 fraxel done. Well that depends if I see more people with great results, because the cost is pretty substantial. One of the things I will be doing to prep for it is applying heavy amounts of vitamin c, folic acid, and creatine for a month ahead of time. So after the procedure there should be enough of a store in the skin tissue to aid in healing. There also a vitamin c cream that many doctors recommend you use post co2 procedure.

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read the link on the scarless healing thread...the military has a enzyme that has been proven to eat scar tissue.after it eats the scar tissue the skin grows back normally....it by AFIRM.it has been used on iraq vets and works great.....looks like these docs and their snake medicine lasers,thermage's ect are gonna be out of business....oh dont worry the docs will fight something that really works tooth and nail until they get these high priced machines paid for and have made a hefty profit on acne scar patients....dont these docs know we dont get a cent from our insurance companys for these treatments.oh yea and again if it is made avaible...it will come at a hefty price tag.....probably the enzyme cost a couple of dollars to make in the lab and when it hits the docs office it will cost a arm and leg..no pun intended....

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I had an opportunity to contact a friend who works in the army division of medicine. he informed that AFIRM is not a company. It the military research and development to improve battlefield injury this is quoted from popular science Armed Forces Institute of Regenerative Medicine (AFIRM), a consortium of 30 research institutions established in March by the U.S. Department of Defense. As far as he is aware of their is no product known product that eats scars and replaces it with scarless skin tissue. They are working on stem cells to generate lost skin an are growing skin for skin crafts but that still many years away before it could be used in the open market.

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Guest delta force operators

macguyver what do u reccomend to best heal sun damaged skin,? Can the skin ever repair itself from the damaged?

what do u reccemend for a large sorta like chicken pox scar, would u reccomend needling or subcission followed by fraxel?.

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lasers can do wonders for sun damage skin there no question about that, I've seen them in action and I'm always amazed by the results our clients get, its a marked improvement even after 1 treatment. I would recommend that you go to your md and see what sort of laser he or she suggest for your skin condition. With regards to your chicken pox like scar. If the scar is a result of some sort of burn, I have not seen anything that would help burn victims whether it be from fire or from acid burns. If your scars are from chicken pox, your best bang for the buck and almost a sure thing from what I've seen is dermabrasion in the right hands beats any laser 7 days a week for scar removal and fine wrinkles. This technique has such a huge down time plus you would probably have to remove every single mirror in the house just so its not a mental drain on you. The healing process makes you look like something from a b movie horror movie, but the end result can nothing less than a miracle. I've seen a patient who came to our office to get photo rejunivation treatments. I knew her when she had scars from chicken pox, it made my acne scars look like smooth as a baby behind. If I had to rate her scars from a 1 to 10 10 being road kill face. I would say she an 8, but after 2 treatments of dermabrasion her skin looked like a million bucks you could barely see any scars at all! 6 months without setting foot out of the house! i wish I could do that because I'm sure dermabrasion would get rid of all my acne scars, but can't affor that sort of down time!

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TCA for scars? Seriously I'm just totally against acids unless its very very mild like 12 to 15 % aha maybe high as 20%, but at those percentages they are not really going to do much for scars, they give better tone to your skin and may reduce pore size. Any sort of acid that can actually reduce scars is a risky at best if you ask me. Reason being you have to be white as snow white, and have thick skin, plus a very experience MD performing the procedure to even make it

He was referring to TCA cross on ice pick scars, which is advocated by many derms and acne.com followers. You are saying to stay away from anykind of scar repair involving acids. Hmm, very interesting.

Did i read you said, one should never bleed under needling? because it usually happens. By the way, i had needling done but it takes couple of trials to see results.

Funny about creatine, it is used to pump up the muscles, is actually a water retention product. Do you mix the powder in your favorite cream? or else?

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I realize he was asking about TCA, I'm totally against it for most people, as I stated in my original posting. " You have to be white as white can be, thick skin, and procedure performed by a very experience md. "Experience" being one that messed up other people faces with acid so he knows whether you are good candidate for the procedure" With that being stated the only acid that most people should ever use is an aha peel in low % this is what most doctors use when they say power peel. This type of peel, doesn't really do much for scars though. You mentioned that doctors recommend tca peels, yeah they recommended co2 lasers for acne and we all know how that went, if acne scars were that simple everyone would be going to do a cheap peel vs all the money we spend on other products trying to get rid of our scars. There so many complication with peels that can actually get rid of scars, that its just not worth it. IN regards to needling, I was suggesting that one should not wipe off the blood on the scar, a scab should be allowed to form for at least 2 days to insure new scar tissue is being formed to close the icepick

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In regards to the CROSS method, many people have been self applying it and seen great results. I'm talking all different types of skin color. It really depends on the type of scarring one has. Icepicks seem to respond the best to this treatment. The procedure itself isn't as dreadful as one would think. If one does his research and doesn't just pour 100% acid on his scars, the danger present is no different than having a laser treatment.

I wouldn't be too quick to not recommend the CROSS. The feedback it has generated is much more positive than any laser treatment I've heard of. Lasers weren't made to correct acne scarring. CROSS was. The whole study was based on acne scarring. Before recommending every new laser that comes out to people, I'd advise them to do all their research first, and try something less expensive and more acne-scar oriented.

I will be applying CROSS very soon. And I'm not worried at all, due to all the research I've done over the years. I never opted for a laser treatment for my tiny icepicks simply because 85% of the feedback I've either heard or read was negative. Not a risk I'm willing to take for my little scarring. Applying CROSS by myself doesn't worry me, whereas having a surgeon perform a laser treatment on my face, does. Go figure. That means something.

Just my two cents.

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I would beg to differ here, with all do respect. With all do respect, one really has to look at the science behind treatments and the end result. Acids are less predictable than lasers. With non co2 lasers often times you are disappointed with the end resul, but no real damage if you followed the doctors direction. With acid you can get 2nd and third degree burns from them, plus that unnatural plastic shinny look to your skin even if you didn't get a burn. Any acid that you put on your face that going to cause you to scab over can have some terrible side effects even if you do your research. As the results you mentioned, most of what I have seen aren't what I would call your average acne scar, furthermore the results may be more of a superfical peel you can get with aha at 15% the scar will return in the long run. I suppose if you did a hundred thousand superfical peels your skin would look good given the fact that you have average acne scar. Scars tend to soften with age as the skin turn overs. I've done all the research on this area, and have seen very little evidence it does anything to the scar in the long term and in our practice I all the problems that can go wrong with people who have had acid peels done by so call professional with clinical grade acids and not some ebay acid one buys. As I've stated earlier, if scars were that simple everyone would just go get an acid peel and be done with it, but the problem is people forget about the science behind scars. You have to remove the scar tissue at probably the dermal part of the skin which is quite deep. Putting acids strong enough to go that deep is just asking for problems. One of the other areas you are forgetting with lasers, I can pop the swtich and the lasers turn off. With acids I have to put a neturalizer on to stop the chemical action, however if the acid has soaked into my skin, its going to take just as long for the neturalizer to soak into my skin to neturalize that acid, at which point the acid is still eatting my face away. If i had real thin skin or olive skin I would be toast if I didn't time it perfectly. When looking at the complex issue of scar revision, its important to know the science behind whats going on.

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I have done TCA CROSS with 100% TCA. I am a registered nurse. I will eventually be doing another one as I am quite pleased with the results. The original study was done with persons of Korean descent; I suppose they had darker than the whitest white skin.

I do not advocate young persons or persons with unsteady hands doing a TCA CROSS. I would prefer to see people go to their doctors to have it done, or find an highly experienced RN aesthetician who can provide the service.

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I had 1 fraxel tx last summer and it ruined the left side of my face. several pock marks and a noticeable loss of depth in skin in comparison to adjacent areas.

Although, I don't know if it's fat loss because it plumps up after I wake up - from waking up since all the blood has rushed to that side?

I am indian with brown skin.

I was really hoping that TCA Cross or needling could help me with my depressed scars but seems there's nothing that can be done?

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I would beg to differ here, with all do respect. With all do respect, one really has to look at the science behind treatments and the end result. Acids are less predictable than lasers. With non co2 lasers often times you are disappointed with the end resul, but no real damage if you followed the doctors direction.

No real damage? Well, now I'm going to have to beg to differ. Many people who have had laser treatments have not only wasted thousand of dollars, but some have said that the laser either made their scars worse, or didn't make a difference at all. Some continue to have redness, uneven skin tone and/or other pigmentation problems. Others have said that they saw mild improvement and some great. So much for predictable!

Whereas, with CROSS, I have yet to hear an extremely negative review. Most people who stick with the treatment get great results. Especially those who have mild icepick scarring. Screw the science! Look at the facts and feedback. You can't go wrong.

With acid you can get 2nd and third degree burns from them, plus that unnatural plastic shinny look to your skin even if you didn't get a burn.

I never said CROSS didn't have it's dangers. I even mentioned it in my last post. Every treatment has it's risks. The point is, which one is worth it. And, sorry, with all the feedback I've read on lasers, I don't think it's worth the thousands of dollars, let alone the risk. Do you really want me to go down the list of what the laser can do to ones skin and it's epidermis? That's a battle the laser will lose if put up against CROSS.

Any acid that you put on your face that going to cause you to scab over can have some terrible side effects even if you do your research.

I really wish you would stop telling everybody here to do their research. Like I said in my post, I have done mine. Once again, nobody is saying that CROSS isn't risky, but to make it seem as if the laser has no flaws is ridiculous. Any laser that burns your skin and it's epidermis and will cause you to be red and what not for a month and more can have side effects that are just as bad.

As the results you mentioned, most of what I have seen aren't what I would call your average acne scar, furthermore the results may be more of a superfical peel you can get with aha at 15% the scar will return in the long run. I suppose if you did a hundred thousand superfical peels your skin would look good given the fact that you have average acne scar.

I think you're the one who has to do your research. Most of the results were not on average scars. And once again, in my post, I mentioned that for little icepick scars, CROSS works wonders. Furthermore, superficial peels at 15% won't do shit for your scars lol. It will even out the skin around it and whathaveyou, but you can have 50 of them in the span of 3 years and your icepicks will remain in tact.

As I've stated earlier, if scars were that simple everyone would just go get an acid peel and be done with it, but the problem is people forget about the science behind scars.

Same can be said about lasers! If scars were that simple, everybody would just have a laser done - and most have - and most reported negative results or no results at all. Stop promoting the laser and wrap your head around what I said in my initial post. For mild icepick scarring, CROSS has been proven to give very impressive results. You can bash it all you want, and promote lasers until you're blue in the face. But the facts remain the same. Lasers were not built to treat acne scarring. CROSS is for acne scarring. Most people who have had laser surgery to remove acne scars have had little improvement or no improvement at all. Most people who have stuck with the CROSS treatment saw a significant improvement in all the areas treated.

One of the other areas you are forgetting with lasers, I can pop the swtich and the lasers turn off.

And this reverses the burn that the laser made on your face? No. Also, you don't need to manually neutralize with CROSS.

I believe that it is important to know the ins and outs of CROSS and one's scarring before bashing it and claiming that the laser is the best way to go. Like I've said in my initial post (I'm starting to wonder if you actually read it or just saw someone supporting the CROSS method and not lasers and decided to start typing right away) it REALLY DEPENDS ON ONE'S scarring. And for mild icepicks, CROSS has been proven to be effective. Don't see why people with that type of scarring should listen to you, NOT look into it, and opted for the laser. Ridiculous.

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I have done TCA CROSS with 100% TCA. I am a registered nurse. I will eventually be doing another one as I am quite pleased with the results. The original study was done with persons of Korean descent; I suppose they had darker than the whitest white skin.

I had 1 fraxel tx last summer and it ruined the left side of my face. several pock marks and a noticeable loss of depth in skin in comparison to adjacent areas.

Although, I don't know if it's fat loss because it plumps up after I wake up - from waking up since all the blood has rushed to that side?

I am indian with brown skin.

Further feedback that proves my point. Ruling out CROSS as a potential treatment for scars and promoting lasers = ridiculous.

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I want to get dermabrasion, but I need to get it done in an area close to where I live. I do not have the funds to travel across the country. How do you suggest I find A doctor in my area. I have done searches and went through the phone book but I can't seem to find one that still does the procedure. And if I do find one how do I know if he is any good? By the way I live in las vegas so if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate it.

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I have done TCA CROSS with 100% TCA. I am a registered nurse. I will eventually be doing another one as I am quite pleased with the results. The original study was done with persons of Korean descent; I suppose they had darker than the whitest white skin.

I had 1 fraxel tx last summer and it ruined the left side of my face. several pock marks and a noticeable loss of depth in skin in comparison to adjacent areas.

Although, I don't know if it's fat loss because it plumps up after I wake up - from waking up since all the blood has rushed to that side?

I am indian with brown skin.

Further feedback that proves my point. Ruling out CROSS as a potential treatment for scars and promoting lasers = ridiculous.

I'm with you, Yezzir. I've had about 8 icepicks/scarred pores treated with TCA cross and all have gone really well (except one where the derm put too much acid in the hole and it spread, and is still in healing mode; but that's human error and doesn't make the treatment itself unworthy, just risky like anything else including lasers).

And it's been a long while since I've posted about fraxel so here goes....from my perspective it is not useful for icepick scars and pores. I'm six months post my fifth treatment and my verdict is it made my already smooth bits look wax/plastic-like but left me with a crap looking T-zone (the area I was trying to fix :confused: ). Ok, macguyver, I can hear you saying that I need many more treatments for it to work. Uh uh :snooty: . I'm also pretty sure it made my pores larger - I'm not the only person who has found this - and if I did keep going, by the time the laser had (potentially) done its work on my icepicks I shudder to think of the effect it would have had on my healthy skin.

If I could go back in time to last September when I started having fraxel, I would have saved my bucks and opted for just TCA cross and retin a instead. Fraxel didn't achieve a damn thing that I was told it would.

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I have done TCA CROSS with 100% TCA. I am a registered nurse. I will eventually be doing another one as I am quite pleased with the results. The original study was done with persons of Korean descent; I suppose they had darker than the whitest white skin.

I had 1 fraxel tx last summer and it ruined the left side of my face. several pock marks and a noticeable loss of depth in skin in comparison to adjacent areas.

Although, I don't know if it's fat loss because it plumps up after I wake up - from waking up since all the blood has rushed to that side?

I am indian with brown skin.

Further feedback that proves my point. Ruling out CROSS as a potential treatment for scars and promoting lasers = ridiculous.

I'm with you, Yezzir. I've had about 8 icepicks/scarred pores treated with TCA cross and all have gone really well (except one where the derm put too much acid in the hole and it spread, and is still in healing mode; but that's human error and doesn't make the treatment itself unworthy, just risky like anything else including lasers).

And it's been a long while since I've posted about fraxel so here goes....from my perspective it is not useful for icepick scars and pores. I'm six months post my fifth treatment and my verdict is it made my already smooth bits look wax/plastic-like but left me with a crap looking T-zone (the area I was trying to fix :confused: ). Ok, macguyver, I can hear you saying that I need many more treatments for it to work. Uh uh :snooty: . I'm also pretty sure it made my pores larger - I'm not the only person who has found this - and if I did keep going, by the time the laser had (potentially) done its work on my icepicks I shudder to think of the effect it would have had on my healthy skin.

If I could go back in time to last September when I started having fraxel, I would have saved my bucks and opted for just TCA cross and retin a instead. Fraxel didn't achieve a damn thing that I was told it would.

My entire point exactly. Great post!

Found it truly absurd that this "nurse" is acting like CROSS is blasphemy and the work of the Devil, and that everybody with icepick scarring should opt for laser surgery.

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Yeah, I mean I love my derm (in a platonic way :shock: ) but alas they (...and their employees ;) ) are in the position of having to make money and seems to me they'll try and push a more expensive treatment over a relative 'cheapie' like TCA cross. I wouldn't even have known about it if it weren't for this site...

My derm said most of his clients prefer the minimal downtime and post-care of lasers - not me, gimme an end result, screw the downtime :D !

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Hold me to it. Cross and ACell will be the complete package for pretty much any scars. Maybe not those individuals with internal scar tissue, but our faces will see smoothness soon.

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If you had bothered to read my all of my posting, how in the world did you come up with the fact that i was in anyway shape or form promoting lasers? If anything I gave an accurate assessment of what non co2 fraxel can do for acne scar and indicated it was not worth the price . Furthermore, when I said that non co2 lasers carry with it very little risk being since its not frying the top layer of your skin, and punching holes underneath, what tends to happen is that the procedure is more of a waste of money which I indicated as much, and that redness etc... that you are trying to fix may not go away. Basically wasting your money unless you have money to burn, can you say the same for acids? I mean the kind high enough to actually cause you to scab over and peel? When I indicated that people should do their research? I don't see a whole lot of science in the quotes you brought up? Talk about pimping tca, at least I indicated that it works for a few select patient in an experience hands. If your so call research shows that using tca in percentage strong enough to cause your skin to actually bleed and scab up is relative safe for MOST PEOPLE. Than I suggest you put enough on your face so the whole thing scabs up and oozes up and we will see what wonderful skin you have in a couple of weeks. If you are talking about TCA or AHA in percentages that will give a light peel thats going to do wonders for the your tone and soften the scar in the short term, but long term it doesn't do anything unless you get tons of peels. By the way if TCA is just a wonderful thing, how come you still on this board, I would figure you solve your scar issue by now. If you are wondering why the strong tone, in this reply stems from the fact that I was providing my observation and the science behind why things happen, and you elected to throw in some colorful 4 letter words in your response. I don't mind disagreements or differing opinions, but does one have to be so uncivil?

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When you said you did your research, if you had gone to the acne info on acid peels there are hundreds of people who have done peels and from what I have actually read so far they tend to support my case more so than yours about acid peels and scars and before anyone starts to debate about tca , aha and phenol peels. Its all about the concentration folks light concentration isn't really going to do anything strong concentration that will scab you over is where problems come up.

Anonymous

Dec 20th, 2006

How well it works

:) Agreeability

:) Affordability

:):):)

Bottom Line: I had a 35% tca peel for my acne scars at a Dermatologist's office a month ago. It looks a ton worse than before. I orginally had the erbium laser (with a little C02)done about 8 months ago. After that my scars ended up only looking about 35% better. Then he recommended this peel on my left cheek. It made my scars look about as bad as they were before the laser surgery. DO NOT USE THE TCA PEEL!! My $4,000 has went down the drain. If he doesn't fix this I will make sure to post his name and city on this site so you know what docter to avoid. If you tried anything that actually works PLEASE let us all know.

Bottom Line: IVE HAD BAD ACNE ( CYSTIC TO B EXACT ) SINCE I WAS 16ISH AND NOW IM 24, I HAVE SCARING AND STILL GET BREAK OUTS ONCE IN A WHILE. IVE TRIED EVERYTHING FROM INJECTIONS TO PILLS TO MICRODERM....I FINALLY WENT TO A SPA AND STARTED GETTING PEELS. ITS BEEN 4 WEEKS NOW, I GET THEM DONE EVERY WEEK. IVE NOTICED A CHANGE IN BLEMISHES, NOT IN ACNE YET. I WAS TOLD ITS GOING TO TAKE A LOT MORE PEELS AND SOME LASER ( WHILE I SWEAR BY, IVE DONE IT BEFOR ) AND I SHOULD B SEEING RESULTS IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS. I RECOMMEND MICRODERM, PEELS AND LASER B4 I RECOMMEND MEDICATION. THE PEELS ARE 88$ PER PEEL. WELL WORTH IT

ros: zippo. SENSITIVE AND THIN SKINNERS KEEP AWAY!

Cons: More scarring, more rednedss. more uneven texture, expensive, f**king painful, requires your face to be f**ked up and get you embarrased for a couple weeks.

Bottom Line: I regret doing it so bad. dermatologist gave me glycolic acid. I did 6 sessions and was brave enough to go up the strength all the way to 70. After 3 times, I hadn't noticed anything, after 5 times i considered the possibility that all these peels are doing is making it worse, and the 6th time they really did me in and f**ked my face up all over. Red marks that were never there appeared, Gashes and small pits opened, i have much more scarring and burned skin. a sh*tlaod of moeny too. none of my dermatyologists say they can do anything else to improve it if you have any suggestions or were like me

Glycolic acid peel (series of 6 peels): The esthetician that did mine was more interested in money than my face. I also couldn't ever go above 35% peel because my skin is so sensitive (but the peel does go up to 70% if you are a good candidate for it).

It helped lessen some of my scarring, but left red marks on other areas and made me break out the first few times, but it seems to dry up acne fast once your skin is used to it. It takes a while to look better after the peel..sometimes a week, and if you don't have your acne under control, it may not ever be fully satisfying.

p.s. after knowing how the peel is done, i just bought my own bottle of 35% solution to use once in a while. continued, moderate usage of glycolic acid peels are the best way to achieve results. it's really no different than going to the esthetician..only about 300 dollars cheaper! just know what you're doing(follow the directions) and pay attention to the skin at all times when you apply it.

ros: Makes skin soft, temporary reduces acne formation & facial shine

Cons: Did not help with my small scars, expensive & faced was red for 2 weeks

: i did a chemical peel and it was a strong peel,i didnt read the instruction well,and i had to mix the bottle with half the medication and distilled water .

Cons: I have real bad pigmentation and now it l;ooks worse,and anyone tell me what to do .

did the medium peel. My skin is 'sensitive' and so the doctor decided on a 25% TCA peel. I went into the procedure, perhaps foolishly, expecting it to be like a tingling sensation when the TCA is applied. Not so. The acid burns like the dickens, and the treatment is roughly equivalent to getting a second-degree burn on your face. Apparently you can have pain medication to ease the pain during the treatment. This might be a good idea to consider, but my main recommendation from the procedure is this: insist that your doctor give you an anti-swelling medication for post-op. My doc gave me two pills. It might have been helpful to have a few more. Secondly: DON'T RUB YOUR EYES. It's a very uncomfortable sensation to have skin peeling around your eyes. However, you will just cause your eyes to burn if you rub them. Plus, they could get infected. Lastly, play videogames to keep your hands off your face. Don't pick at your skin, unless you like having your face burned off.

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DR. RAPAPORT WEBSITE

They don't even recommend higher concentration and indicate higher concentration of TCA is VERY RISKY. Even on here people rrecommend peels for mild acne scaring!

Recent studies have shown that the reticular dermis heals with scarring. They offer an explanation for some of the increased risk associated with the use of TCA for deeper peels, suggesting that peeling with higher TCA concentrations is very riskyand definitely not recommended.8 We also have limited experience and very little information regarding the effects of higher TCA concentrations for acne scars in dark­complexioned patients, including Koreans (types IV­VI), whose skin is known to develop postin£lamma­tory hyperpigmentation.

In order to maximize the effects of TCA and to overcome complications such as scarring, hyperpig­mentation, and hypopigmentation, we suggest a tech­nique consisting of the focal application of higher TCA concentrations by pressing hard on the entire de­pressed area of atrophic acne scars using a sharpened wooden applicator (Figure 1).11 Eventually it produces multiple, frosted white spots on each acne scar (Figure 2). This technique is called chemical reconstruction of skin scars (CROSS) by the authors; however, the tech­nique itself has not been patented or restricted to pre­vent usage. The CROSS method, achieved with 65% or 100% TCA alone, has the advantage of reconstruct­ing acne scars by focusing on the dermal thickening and collagen production that increase with high TCA concentrations.7 Healing is more rapid and has a lower complication rate than conventional full-face medium to deep chemical resurfacing, because the adjacent nor­mal tissue and adnexal structures are spared. This tech­nique does not involve the classic full-face chemical resurfacing, but rather it can be used on focal chemical scar reconstruction. We have used this technique suc­cessfully for treating facial acne scars and dilated pores for the past 10 years. The purpose of this study was to evaluate the clinical effects of the CROSS method on atrophic acne scars in dark-complexioned patients

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Whoa! 2 back-to-back posts the size of Kentucky? There's no way I'm even going to waste my time with that. Simply because I skimmed through them and realized you were just repeating yourself and missing my points.

And I'm fully aware of Dr. Rapaport's site.

You have promoted lasers throughout this thread. And you have stated that CROSS is not a good solution for scarring and that some people should opt for lasers instead. All while mentioning all the possible risks of CROSS and saying that lasers are predictable and the risks can be avoided.

You disagreed with my post about CROSS when I said that it has been proved effective for mild icepick scarring. And began to ramble on about lasers again. Anyone who generalizes and says that lasers are predictable, that the bad side effects can be avoided, that it is a better treatment for icepick scarring than CROSS, and that those who have not-so-serious icepick scarring should not even consider CROSS, is ridiculous to me. This is my entire point.

Once again, your post has you telling someone to "do their research". It's beginning to prove my theory that you are a programmed robot more than you are a nurse. For your information, I have read ALL the feedbacks on acne.info. What the hell does feedback on PEELS have to do with the feedback on CROSS??? People who turn to chemical peels to remove scars/cure breakouts are wasting their time, and money. Full-facial peels are not for removing scars, but for rejuvenating the skin, removing marks, etc. You copy/pasting those reviews is irrelevant. Once again, maybe you should do your research on CROSS and the feedback it has received. I reckon this is important if you plan on continuing to tell people to stay away from it.

I know about peels, from personal experience, far too well. I been getting them for over 6 years. Beautiful treatment if you want a great skin complexion - does diddly squat for actual scarring. I also have sensitive skin, have peels done MUCH higher than 25%, and can't complain. It has always done what I expected it to.

Once again, do your research on CROSS and the feedback it has received. Read members posts on here (not reviews on the website, actual elaborate posts of members experiences) who have had both done, and wish they had never had a laser treatment. Stop highlighting the risks of CROSS while brushing off the risks of lasers. Stop comparing chemical peels with the CROSS method. Notice how people who have had both the lasers and CROSS method done, aren't agreeing with you.

There's a reason for that. Stop telling people to do their research, and start doing yours. Open your eyes and read the experiences on here. You'll see and understand my points, instead of ignoring them. CROSS was created as an acne scar treatment - lasers were not.

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can't believe you guys are fighting over this, both of you have a point I think poster who warns about tca has a legitmate point, as well as the responder can't we all get along

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I don't intend to respond publicly to this posting anymore since its gotten way too negative for my taste, so anyone who is diy when it comes to acid and wish to take your adivce instead error on the side of caution . I wish them the best of luck, wouldn't want anyone to get hurt thats the bottom line. If anyone has any question pertaining feel free and pm me, I will try to give honest advice with an explain things in detail if possible. Do the only place you do research is on here and we all know this place is full of how to videos and full of step by step guides and what to look for and what not to look for. If you've done your so call research on here, how come you forgot to mention on the board home page where all the treatments are ranked it indicates that peels are suitable for very mild acne scar? Try to do some real research when it comes to moderate acne scar and peels. I never said peels don't have a place skin repair, I'm just saying it risky for moderate acne scar repair. I just wish you would the whole posting instead of cherry picking.

This is what i wrote in regards to TCA and lasers from my very first posting? Care to point out where i was promoting them for scars? Be nice if you read the whole post before you cherry pick and jump down my throat.

I would highly advise anyone to think very very carefully before they pour any sort of acid type of peel on themselves. I have not seen anything that would resemble satisfactory results compared to the risk involved.

fraxel, its pretty worthless for the money if you ask me, it does tighten skin make the skin tone even out or if you have large pores it can make them smaller but if you have acne scars that are moderately bad you probably need 15k before it looks really good.

total fx from what i've seen its way better than just doing the deep fx or active fx. Thats not saying it really works miracles, its just saying deep fx and active fx isn't as impressive when it comes to acne treatments.

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can't believe you guys are fighting over this, both of you have a point I think poster who warns about tca has a legitmate point, as well as the responder can't we all get along

Noone is fighting. It was healthy debating. There's nothing wrong with warning people on the risks of the CROSS method, but macguyver doesn't stop there. What this poster has been saying regarding CROSS and lasers has been absurd to say the least. The poster compares peels to CROSS (lol), posts up chemical peel reviews to back up opinions on CROSS (lol), disagreed with me when I said that CROSS has proven to be more effective on icepick scars than lasers, and tells everyone to do their research when the poster clearly needs to be doing some. Not to mention, tells us that lasers are more predictable than peels/CROSS.

However, I don't intend on replying to this "nurse" any longer. This nurse misses all points and repeats the same stuff constantly. A broken record, if you will. The nurse has the right to voice opinions, but to enforce them in such an ignorant manner makes me not even want to bother anymore.

My advice? Like I said in my first post in here, if you have mild icepick scarring, look into CROSS before signing up for a thousand-dollar laser treatment. The CROSS method has gotten more positive reviews for treating icepicks, than lasers have. Maybe it's because one was made to treat icepick scars... And the other... Well wasn't.

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