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aragorn

Diet & Acne

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Dear Dan and all other members,

I strongly advise you to remove the part in your regimen that says

that diet does not have any effect on ance - because it does. It was

even proved, a research was published recently. The research said

that people living in non-Western world, people who never eat the

same things we do, have no acne at all.

I myself did an experiment. When I was on a heavy diet (I lost

more then 30 pounds), I tried not to eat things like french fries,

hamburgers, bread, milk, cereals and so on. And guess what? My

acne improved drastically. Now, since I didn't do anything else at

the time, the only answer is that diet is one of the factors.

It makes logic. Where did things like acne or diabetes come from?

That's right, from the modern awful poison we have been eating.

For example, cereals are sugar-boombs, which cauces huge amounts

of insulin to be released in a short amount of time. This is not natural.

Diet (and enviornment, as well as stress) has huge effect on ance.

It seems better not to accept that and continue eating chocolate.

But trust me, it isn't. Acne is the sickness of 21st century. It

reflects the modern way of life. As well as diabetes, and cancer.

Do not ignore the obvious!

MP

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I am sorry but I have to disagree...it all depends on the individual as I am proof of that.

I have been a vegetarian for 14 years and now a vegan for 3...I have eaten nothing but whole unprocessed foods for all of this time...fruits, vegetables, whole grains...no sugar, no caffiene, no dairy...NOTHING. I drink only water and herbal tea.

I have seen no impact on my skin whatsoever...prior to becoming a vegetarian I consumed meat, dairy, sugar, caffiene....everything. My skin has had acne then and it has it now.

It all depends on the individuals chemical makeup and metabolism. For some people diet may improve or worsen acne due to allergies or other metabolic influences, for others diet has absolutely no impact.

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My website is based on studies, not on conjecture. It seems like an obvious conclusion that diet and acne would be related, however, studies do not back up this claim. To the contrary, diet and acne have been proven to be unrelated in many studies.

The one study you refer to is actually not a study at all, but an article that calls for study to be performed I believe. If they perform a study on the "hunter/gatherer" diet and it shows that people stop getting acne, and this study is further backed up by other studies, then I will be change what I say on the site. Until then, it would be irresponsible for me to do so.

-Dan

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Guest fatman_uk

Why don't u just do as the masses have done and say it *may* have sumthin to do with acne but the link differs from person to person?

It'd be a sad affair, after all, if sum1 read that sentence on ur site, followed it, then found out later in life (off a homeopath or whatever they're called) that the problem lied within dairy, sugar, or whatever. Don't u think?

-Gaz

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Why don't u just do as the masses have done and say it *may* have sumthin to do with acne but the link differs from person to person?

Exactly !! Its as simple as that. Some people could eat the best food in the world but they would still get acne, some people find certain foods (dairy etc) irritate their skin, others something else.

Adam

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I am also living proof that diet helps acne...So are others I know...Actually to be honest with you, I stayed for like 2 weeks eating nothing but Raymond noodle soup and some cracker stuff, and even though I suffered being hungry, I didnt have ONE pimple on my face nor scar! Im not saying to starve yourself but staying away from junk food and eating more healthy food DOES do something....Ive been drinking like 2 bottles of water a day and boy does it do wonders as well......I think you guys should investigate more if you disagree.

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bobo i don't disagree with u. About a year ago i started to drink lots more water and eat better and i did notice an improvement but at the same time diet isn't the sole reason i got acne.

Adam

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:D After reading the posts, I agree with Gaz, actually, his view is more of a middle view. I have two older brothers - one had acne when he was younger (not as bad as mine) and still gets a pimple on his forehead. He works out and eats pretty healthy, not eating much junkfood or anything. The other exercises a little but he rarely had any pimple; in fact, I don't remember him having any or still does not, and he eats more of the fast food stuff. I have been off dairy 4 years and my skin has not improved. BUT I have gone off coffee, which I think aggravates it, as well as soy, and I believe this has helped my skin of late.

I think to find out if which food you eat aggravates your skin, avoid it for 2 weeks and then have it alone and see how you react; that is the most common and cheapest way, although it can be hard. I am positive that for many people, something you eat is aggravating your acne. I did not say was the major cause, although that could be true too. For others, your genes must help you go without acne despite what you eat. At least that has been my experience. For what my opinion is worth, Karen

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I do concede and say "Some people absolutely insist that a certain food causes acne for them. In this case, doctors sometimes recommend that they avoid that food". That's as far as I'm willing to go. There just isn't evidence to support anything more at this time, and lots of evidence to suggest that diet and acne are not related.

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Guest fatman_uk

Darn it, maybe i should lock myself in a room in a lab a eat nuthin but choccy biscuits, be the first freak of nature with the non-existant acne-diet link, LOL..... hmmm, might get famous, who knows?

-Gaz

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:D Yes, I think you should lock yourself in a room, eat the chocolate stuff (cookies or whatnot), and let us know how you fared after 2 weeks! If your skin got worse or better would be the scientific result; however, you would then become your acne.org internet name for sure! lol.

Karen

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Ok, the problem is that there hasn't been any official studies, but there are individual studies that when you ADD them up, lead to this conclusion. Of course, you would have to be genetically prone to get acne, in order for diet to have a negative affect on you. The one of the largest misconceptions here is that Meat is the problem. Maybe for some people, but obviously ask Vegans on here and they'll say otherwise. So, even though their diets are "healthy", they aren't the RIGHT type of diet for an acne sufferer. I'm NOT trying to spam, but I'm going to post two posts that I put up on another message board, and you can judge for yourselves.

Thanks =)

"I would also like to add that there's only two types of people who get acne: those going through puberty and those who arent. It has nothing to do with how overweight or underwieght you are. Nor does it specifically have to do with junk food vs. health food. When it comes to the SPECIFIC WAY that our dietary habits affect us, that indeed is Genetic. That's where you might see a correlation to those being overweight, constipated, acneic, etc having something to do with the foods they eat, but WHICH foods are they? So, just because you have Hormonal Acne, does that mean it's not treatable by Diet?

You know, I'm a hormonal case...BC, Spiro, Avandia, and I've been fighting acne since I was 6 (I'm 22 now). Used topicals, Taken oral/external antibiotics (a few days to a max of 3 months), herbs, supps, and have been tested for so many disorders that I don't even remember their names anymore. Yes, I do have excess Androgens and finally I was diagnosed last summer as having Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome or Insulin Resistance (I don't fit all the symptoms, but I do know I make more Androgens than normal). Since I was 10, I've fought to find answers and looked to the derms, doctors, endocrinologists, and alternative medicine to do it. I must admit, each one was helpful in handing me a piece of the puzzle. Unfortunately, I wish I could have had the last 5 years of my life much earlier, the time I really made the most advancement and perhaps even miraculous discoveries.

Whether your problem is Genetic, it's still Hormonal. If it's hormonal, it can be treated with medicines. If it can be treated with medicine, then it can usually be treated with Herbs, Vitamins, Amino Acids, etc. I've stumbled across medication, herbs, supplements, probiotics, and dietary changes that were HELPFUL in ways I NEVER would have thought.

Just because it doesn't specify that line of treatment as an answer for acne or some other disorder, does NOT mean it's Impossible.

All it means is that they either haven't tested the POSSIBILITY Yet or they're aren't enough testimonies stating that it can do more. Oh, but when people start talking, and when enough people do, that's when the doctors and reserchers think twice and see if there's some validity behind it all. Science is NEVER 100% certain and they are always going back and finding deeper answers to problems they previously thought they had solved.

For me the answer wasn't just 1 thing, but a combination of things, but diet had the most impact. (Visit 20withacne's "Who has found a cure for their acne?" for my regimen on healthboards)

1. Avoidance of outside irritants (wrong detergents or pore clogging skincare)

2. Getting tested and finding the right medicine

3. Using detoxifying & non-inflammatory supplements (this is actually my next step)

4. Avoiding the foods that increase/aggrevate my body's hormones & acne (most improvement)

Depending on your budget or stubborness you can visit an Endocrinologsit, Allergist, Gastroentorolgist, and/or a Naturopath to get tested to see what nutrients & hormones you are Deficient in or In Excess of. To see if you truly have a Hormonal Imbalance (& what kind), Allergies, and/or an Intolerance. If ANY of these are true, that's probably what's aggrevating/causing your acne.

Now, there's several possible reasons why wheat, dairy, and other foods can cause us problems. It's a VERY personal & individual thing and most find out through "trial and error," unless they go on an elimination diet. Yet, you will NEVER know 100% for sure, if something in your diet is negatively affecting you if you REFUSE to even temporarily eliminate it.

Look at this:

"Subjects fed a high-protein diet (44% protein, 35% carbohydrate, and 21% fat) show substantially less 5-alpha-reduction of testosterone and enhanced cytochrome p-450 hydroxylation of estradiol, both therapeutic goals. A high carbohydrate diet (10% protein, 70% carbohydrate, and 20% fat) had the opposite effect."

"Where diet is concerned in the treatment of acne, the safest thing is to avoid and eliminate all refined or concentrated carbohydrates and limit high-fat and high-carbohydrate foods. Focus on avoiding foods containing trans-fatty acids and iodine"

www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-117.shtml (Acne protocol)

Now, it's been proven that less carbs means less of an insulin spike, which means less DHT, which means LESS androgens, thus less acne (and body hair), weight gain, etc. It's along the SAME principle and practice as these popular treatments: Spironolactone, Flutamide, Diane35, Avandia, Metaformin, Insulin (works for some), Chromium (other vitamins), Saw Palmetto, Nettle, and hopefully Beta-Sitosterol (concentrated version).

The problem is that there aren't any studies to determine what they mean by "low carbing". Everyone has their own opinion on what "healthy" carbs are but there have been numerous TV reports, medical articles, books and even doctors (like my endocrinologist) that are saying "Carbs aren't that healthy after all." Is it ALL carbs or just CERTAIN carbs??? That's where a study should be done, has anyone found one???

Hence, why when people go on low carb diets to lose weight they also notice a clearing of their acne or other health problems (like diabetes). Most people are on a 60% - 70% carb diet (did you know they want us to go up to the 70% average?), but we should be on a 30% carb diet to get the above postive effects. Infact depending on the source, the ratios vary a bit, but it should be something like:

20% Fat (fish oils, olive oils, etc)

30% - 35% Carbs

45% - 50% Protein

For me, and others, this is easily remedied by dropping Lectins, grains, sugars, OR gluten. You don't have to drop the fruits and vegetables because they provide neccessary fiber, which helps eliminate toxins in the body. I'm 95% clear now (skin improves everyday) and I've achieved BETTER results with Spiro (150mg) and a Gluten Free diet, than when I was on Spiro (150mg) and Avandia (2-4mg) OR on Spiro (200mg) and Birth Control!!! I'm not the only one, there are others out here with similar plans, but the point is we did have to alter the type or quality of our carb intake.

Therefore, based upon what I've read and heard about Carbs, Glutens, and Lectins, these are the possible reasons why this diet is helping me (and others):

-I've lowered my sugar/carbs (I still have "fun" eating)

-I've eliminated or lowered my Insulin-mimickers (Gluten and some Lectins)

**I've drastically and dramatically lowered my INFLAMMATORY Reactions (caused by Wheat, Gluten, Lectins, etc)**

**I'm not a Celiac, but since I did have a FEW Gluten/Gliaden antibodies (most HEALTHY people do), I must've eliminated their irritance in my system (maybe everything will eventually balance out) **

**I'm a Type O and since MOST people are a Type B or O, according to "Live Right 4 Your Type" (I don't follow this diet), Wheat, Carbs, Gluten, and Lectins are troublesome for us (symptoms vary).**

Like I said above, symptoms vary. It's your life and you should do as you please. Just know that not everyone get's acne, some are overweight, some get IBS, diabetes, arthritis, or cancer from eating food they're bodies can't handle or aren't "evolved enough" to eat. Meaning, what if we were NEVER supposed to eat these foods in the first place?

Unfortunately, at this moment it's hard for some doctors and the general public to believe that more people could be intolerant to Gluten or other foods, than they think "should" be. Therefore, the gluten IGG antibody test MUST be "too sensitive." OK, so why is it that most people are having adverse reactions to Grain Carbs? Why is it that Most "healthy" people have Gluten Antibodies (we shouldn't)? Why is it that MOST people have Type B or O Blood and supposedly cant properly tolerate Gluten and Lectins??? Is it right of us to continually eat something "because it tastes good" and "makes us happy" when it could be hurting us now or in the long run?

Symptoms manifest themselves at ANY time (for some puberty is great time to TRIGGER it) and in different ways for us all. That's what makes it so hard to pinpoint, doctors and derms treat the symptom and NOT usually the problem (or the cause). It's known that Carbs (wheat, etc) and Nightshades (Lectin veggies) cause an inflammatory reaction for those with Rheumatoid Arthritis. Eliminate these, and the problems subside. So why can't these do the same for us with Acne?

Furthermore, the evidence above and elsewhere directly links Androgen increases to High Carb Diets. My endocrinologist even said that I'd have better results if I chose the Salad over a Pizza or Sandwich and he was right. No, I have a completely normal blood sugar and am not Diabetic. So, even he's amazed at the difference in my skin, just wait til he see's me in February. I'm living proof that there is a connection, and I still get to eat "junk" food ;-)

Yes, of course, there's other good solutions out there, but if you KNOW your acne problems are due to ANDROGENS (there's several of them) or you get CYSTIC INFLAMMED Acne, then altering your carb intake should, at the very least, reduce your breakouts. So, just keep that in the back of your head, maybe one day when after you've tried & tired of other methods (that's why I did this) you might want to test it out ;-) "

I'm not promoting one board over the other, but the info is just as long as what I've said above, and they include further links and discussion. So here's the links that will take you to more information on My diet or regimen, etc:

http://www.clearskin4me.com/viewtopic.php?t=334

http://www.clearskin4me.com/viewtopic.php?t=322

http://www.clearskin4me.com/viewtopic.php?t=273 "

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I 'd like to say something about diet and acne too.

First of all, of course you don't get acne because of your diet, you get acne because you are genetically prone to acne. But I believe (and I am not the only one) that you can heal you skin with food.

I also believe that it depends on your type of acne. Diet is very important in hormonal acne, because we all know that there are some foods that can help you to keeep your hormones balanced.

The majority of the people think that choccolate and pork meat is the most problem, that's what I thought too, so i avoided those foods and I kept on eating a lot of white bread and pasta.

But now I know that carbs are the main problem for me!

That's something I've tried a lot of time..no carbs=less spots!

It reallly works for me!

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I'm not saying that diet is your ONLY option, but for some of us, it's the more affordable and "easier" of the options out there. Obviously, there are lots of great options out there, some I continue to implement, but my goals have always been to find as many natural methods to balancing my hormones and if I can do that by NOT taking 30 - 40 pills a day, I will glady do it. =)

So, yes this is almost like I'm in a weird dream or something, yet I know I'm awake. I have ALWAYS had a Breakout Cycle that runs from August - March/April and normally with MEDICATIONS, I would only be 60% - 70% clear, but I'm 95% clear right now! =) In the summer I'm clearer, about 80% - 85%, so I KNOW this diet has got to be doing something. Of course everyone asks WHY would a diet work?

Thing that makes makes me kinda sad is that some people aren't seeing the BIG picture. These diets work for at least 1 of the 2 most significant reasons that you've probably heard about:

Reduction/elimination of Inflammatory Reactions

and

Reduction of High Insulin/Androgen Levels.

For that alone, I don't understand why more people aren't paying attention to what they eat. Of course, it's because they don't KNOW. You've had acne or certain other disorders for 5, 10, 15, 20 or more years and all you had to do was NOT eat certain foods! Except, everyone keeps coming up with misinformation, excuses, and negative reasons for you not to do it. Yet had you KNOWN the RIGHT way years ago, think where you would be right now... You can read the books, journal articles, and listen to the doctors, but until you've found the right combination for yourself ( I hope more do), you won't ever "know."

How can anyone sit there and say that food-carbs-sugar- insulin may impact those with Diabetes, Insulin Resistance, PCOS and Obesity, but it has NO affect on acne? Huh? Maybe it's OK for a Dermatologist to say this, but if they are doctors, then they obviosuly needs to have their license revoked. Those in doubt, please read these:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...7&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...3&dopt=Abstract

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...8&dopt=Abstract

For those of you wondering about Gluten and Lectins, I wish that that Lectins thread we had up (it was 30 pages) was still around. The only security I can give you is that of the ACTIVE USERS on the Absolute Forum who tried either the Lectin Or Gluten Free diet (22 total) during the summer, MOST are 100% clear. A few, myself included, are at least 90% clear (we're on the Gluten free diet). Only 1 person said they tried the Lectin Diet and it didn't work. He never responded again, so I dont know what he was actually eating & avoiding.

Now, Gluten and Lectins are both proteins. Gluten is found in certain grains, while lectins are found in practically all foods. Now when gluten and CERTAIN lectins enters your system, they are capable of causing damage to your body by mimicking Insulin or some other protein. Now, some people's systems aren't fooled by these, but others are. If your body senses these proteins they'll send antibodies that will start to attack these invaders. Unfortunately because they look like proteins your body normally makes, your body will essentially start to attack itself.

The negative results of this is endless. Studies are currently being done on the role lectins play on our body and certain diseases. Yet so far, I believe, OZ has been researching the effect of lectins in regards to rheumatoid arthritis (??), there's not alot known. Now, that form of arthritis is known as an autoimmune disease because well, for some reason (lectins?), the body is attacking itself and causing Inflammation and Pain in the joints.

The same can be said for Gluten, in Celiac or Gluten Intolerant individuals, this protein can be life threatening. Most have an immediate reaction to gluten, but others can be asymptomatic, meaning they show no outward signs of a problem. Unfortunately, those who's bodies don't show symptoms, sometimes end up with intestinal cancers, etc and...die.

See, just because you see people eating "all the food and junk they want", doesnt mean that one day, it won't effect them very badly. In a way, you can say we're the lucky ones. We got the outward signs of there being something wrong inside of us and we have a chance to figure out what it is. A good way for us to mark our progess, is to see if our symptoms, usually acne for us, go away. If we work NOW to eat foods that are internally HEALTHY for us, we may not have to wake up one day with diabetes, arthritis, or worse.

Now, the thing with long term acne sufferers and possibly those going through puberty, is that a group of us MAY just be Insulin Resistant. Over and over we have heard how bad chocolate, soda, sugar, dairy, and carbs are for us right? Well in the simplest sense, that's becaue they will all be converted into SUGARS once they enter our system.

It's a myth with a lot of truth, but the trick is to find out which sugars irritate your body the most. Ususally, it's the ones found in Carbohyrodrates. Although, that doesn't say much since most foods are carbs ;-) So let's break it down even simpler by saying it's the sugars found in Wheat, Grains, Gluten, or Lectin foods.

Obviously you know what wheat and grains are, but your question was about Gluten and Lectins right? Well, remember how I said that these type of proteins can LOOK Like Insulin? Well, I think that MAY be why some of us have had greater success on these diets. We aren't simply low carbing to get rid of some of that sugar, but we are also getting rid of the "extra" insulin that our bodies sense.

Furthermore, by NOT adding synthetic, fake, pretend, or whatever you want to call these proteins that mimic Insulin, into our more susceptible systems, our bodies hormones will remain more balanced. Hence, by low carbing and elimininating the insulin mimickers, we are reducing the amount of insulin in our system, therefore lowering the amount of other hormones (estrogen, testostrone, etc) that are affected by it (posted some clincal data above). If that's not enough, we've also possibly eliminatied the proven Inflammatory reactions that are a result of eating certain carbohydrates. Could this be the reason why people get cystic acne?

So, in the order of LEAST restrictive you could eliminate all Wheat, Gluten, Grains, or Lectins from your diet. While some people only needed to drop wheat, it really depends on how sensitive YOUR system is. Below is a quick summary of the differences. I'll make a second post on the specfic list of foods for you tomorrow, in the mean time, PLEASE check out these links:

Gluten: Eliminates mainly Wheat, Barely, and Rye Grains.

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/learning/heal...n_Free_Diet.htm

Lectin: Eliminates most Starchy foods (grains, beans, etc) and Nightshades (peppers, tomatos, potatos, etc) and Bananas.

http://www.krispin.com/lectin.html

So there you have and I do apologize for the lenghth. I just wanted to give a good amount info. in case there was any confusion. Oh and I'm not deprived, I still eat "junk" nor do I get stressed out if I unknowingly "cheat" and eat something I shouldn't (why???). I know that I can control/prevent breakouts through diet, etc and so I take the neccessary steps. I take what I need to take, avoid what I NEED to avoid, and live the rest of my life. =)

Wish you all the BEST of luck!

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Guest fatman_uk

Arghhh! My scrollbar shrunk! LOL

I remember u from the Healthboard forums, Sweetjade. Dam, u sure gotta lotta praise there an ur posts were always LOOOOONG, hehe. :D An they normally confused me so i just agreed, lol.

I saw that cat sed she believes u can 'heal' ur skin with food. I guess this sounds about logical, since the right amount of nutrition would give u optimum healing an tissue regeneration. But hell, theres no way of findin anyones optimum so i guess the only choice (if u think diet affects YOU) is to eat healthy.

Which i do... but.... i been eatin a HELLA lotta biscuits these past 2 weeks an im gonna carry on eatin em BECAUSE that 2 weeks ago i ran outta my fave brand of shaving gel an hadda get some Gillete crap which is probly the almightiest of comedogenic satan spawned products. An i got 4 pretty big red bump knda spots down the left side of my neck, which is a shaving area, so it could be either the biccies or the shaving gel (Gillete).

So i figure if i carry on eatin biccies an enjoyin it for 2 more weeks while goin back on my fave brand of shaving gel, which i finally manage to get some more of, ill know whether it was the biccies, or the Gillette that caused the few spots down the left on my neck the past week. :lol:

-Gaz

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hey original poster aragorn,

will you let us know whether you start breaking out again when you stop losing weight?

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by the way, i wrote a very long post about this several months back, which seemed to have hallen on deaf ears.

http://acne.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php...=882&highlight=

obviously i agree with what you say. it is ridiculous to say that certain foods can help promote better skin while also rejecting the idea that acne can be worstened by an improper diet.

"Some people absolutely insist that a certain food causes acne for them. In this case, doctors sometimes recommend that they avoid that food."

what is this? you seem to concede that acne can indeed be affected by a poor diet. yet at the same time you outright reject it.

the problem doesnt just pertain to acne, but health in general. as i said before, hunter-gatherers lived were much healthier people than we are, a great deal due to a diet rich in protein (in the form of wild game), vegatables, and NO CEREAL CROPS. it is absolutely agreed upon that "cheap calories" such as processed carbs and cereal crops are a weak alternative to diet rich in wild plants and animals. it also seems pretty clear to me that health and the condition of your skin go hand and hand. it is proposterous to claim that foods such as "sugar, greasy foods, milk, and seafood, among others" have no affect on your health. obviously these foods are things that out bodies are not accustomed to processing. as jared diamond, author of "guns, germs, and steel" puts it: " If the history of the human race began at midnight, then we would now be almost at the end of our first day. We lived as hunter-gatherers for nearly the whole of that day, from midnight through dawn, noon, and sunset. Finally, at 11:54 p. m. we adopted agriculture".

please understand that our modern day diet, stressing high carbs, is something which is compeltely foreign to our bodies.

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so wtf do you eat then?

loooool damn man...ummm fruit , vegtables and stuff like that !

No more KFC or Taco Bell for me I guess :D

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I hesitate to tell people Specifically what they shouldn't eat, but I can say that it doesn't hurt to avoid grains or extra sugar for a few weeks. If you do this, then of course you will be eating:

Beef, Poultry, Pork, and Seafood

Beans/legumes

Nuts, seeds

Fruits

Vegetables

Fats/oils

Dairy

water

Not everyone has to follow a diet that "strict", but I know that some people MUST. As a result, they are 100% Clear. If you try the above diet for a few weeks and you notice improvement, then you can choose to stay on this or TRY and add foods that you like back in slowly.

The best way to to that is to, start eating Bread, for example, 2 - 3x a day for at least 7 Days and see if you breakout. Breakouts from cheating tend to show up 3 - 5 days later, hence why you MUST remove the suspect item from your diet for a period of at least 2 weeks. You WILL know if you are breaking out from the bread (or whatever food you choose) because your acne may be cystic and it should be more persistant than usual. If you don't, then you can add that food back in. Easy, right? ;-)

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SweetJade ... How about non-processed wheats & rice :?: For example: brown, natural rice? Or 100% whole wheat bread? Or are these things that you advise cutting out as well.

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