Jump to content
Acne.org
Search In
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
scarlett_087

For all DIM users......

Recommended Posts

I did some research on DIM today to find out exactly what it does for both men and women, since a lot of us are asking questions about how it works but can't find relevant info, and I came across some great stuff on it for us who are taking DIM or considering it. Mine should arrive at the end of this week.

I found a site that reveals everything about DIM and I'll post the site below, but I want to highlight most of the quotes here so you don't have to read the entire site.

-------

"DIM use by men promotes the same beneficial estrogen metabolism as seen in women. Improving estrogen balance in men may serve as a basis for enhancing prostate health."

"Diindolylmethane (DIM) is the most active cruciferous substance for promoting beneficial estrogen metabolism in women and men. DIM is found in cruciferous vegetables including broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage and Brussels sprouts. DIM is formed from its precursor indole, Indole-3-carbinol (I3C), after the enzymatic release of I3C from parent glucosinolates found in all cruciferous vegetables. The supplemental use of DIM began with early experiments which demonstrated that animal diets with added DIM, like diets with added cruciferous vegetables, prevented chemically induced cancer. Pure DIM was first used in 1987 as a dietary supplement in animals, shown to be non-toxic, and to prevent breast cancer caused by the carcinogen, dimethylbenz(a)anthracene. Similarly, the initiation pathway to chemically induced colon cancer was inhibited with the DIM precursor, I3C. The mechanisms by which DIM prevents cancer in animals has subsequently been shown to involve a reduction in activity of the estrogen receptor system, promotion of beneficial estrogen metabolism, and support for selective apoptosis, or "programmed cell death" which removes damaged cells."

"Unlike soy isoflavones, genistein and daidzein, DIM is not an estrogen mimic or "phytoestrogen" and has no inherent estrogenic activity. DIM acts to balance the natural response to estrogen by adjusting the activity of metabolic cytochrome enzymes and specialized estrogen receptor molecules. In dividing cells this limits the growth promoting signal from estrogen by reducing the level of activity of the estrogen receptor system. In a complementary way, DIM also promotes the pathways of metabolism of estrogen within cells to favor the cancer preventive metabolites, 2-hydroxy and 2-methoxy estrogen. These metabolites further limit cell division and growth through influence on the cell cycle which determines growth and replication. 2-methoxy estrogen inhibits cell division by slowing the organization of tubulin, the subcellular cytoskeleton necessary for division of chromosomes."

For Women:

"The importance of supplementation with DIM is that this approach can decrease estrogen-related breast cancer risk in the majority of women."

"DIM supplementation reduces undesirable metabolites of estrogen now known to be responsible for the cancer initiating and cancer promoting effects of estrogen. Supplemental DIM acts positively to support the pathways of estrogen metabolism which produce desirable metabolites associated with lower risk status for breast cancer and other estrogen-related disorders. The increased risk of breast cancer from postmenopausal estrogen administration can be eliminated by the complementary steps of adding cruciferous based supplements like DIM and reducing alcohol consumption to below 5 grams daily. The action of alcohol predictably raises circulating levels of estrogen from all sources by as much as 200% by interfering with its metabolism. If coupled with an unfavorable pathway of estrogen metabolism away from 2-hydroxy metabolites, alcohol can promote cancer whether or not supplemental estrogen is used. DIM supplementation is an effective and established means to assure a favorable pathway for estrogen metabolism. With its estrogen balancing effects, DIM provides a margin of safety and acts to reduce the negative consequences of estrogen elevation associated with moderate alcohol use."

"In addition to a decrease in overall mortality, estrogen replacement confers better memory and a lower risk of Alzheimer's dementia, stronger bones with fewer fractures, and most importantly a 50% reduction in cardiovascular disease, the number one threat to women's longevity. In addition, estrogen may be important in preventing osteoarthritis, the most common cause of disability in women, and also may be important in reducing the occurrence of colon cancer, the third most common cancer in women. There are also the benefits of more youthful skin, less vaginal dryness, increased libido, and less urinary incontinence."

For Men:

"In men, there is a new appreciation of the effects of changing estrogen metabolism with aging, now identified as "andropause". German researchers have clearly documented a dramatic, aging-related accumulation of estrogen in human prostate glands. This work correlated age, estrogen accumulation, and the presence of benign prostatic hypertrophy. This underscores the role of estrogen as a growth promoting hormone in men as well as women. Tissue accumulation of estrogen is a unique hallmark of andropause, distinct from estrogen deficiency which characterizes menopause. Recent work shows that estradiol, the active form of estrogen, provokes increases in prostate specific antigen (PSA) production in human prostate tissue. This increase in PSA is as great as that seen with testosterone. Increased PSA production was specifically inhibited by 2-methoxyestradiol, the beneficial estrogen metabolite whose production is promoted by DIM."

"While it remains to be demonstrated through intervention studies that DIM supplementation can slow the progression of prostate disease and atherosclerosis, it is clear that DIM supplementation in men can beneficially shift estrogen metabolism."

"By promoting a healthy estrogen metabolism, use of DIM by men will increase the safety and benefits of long term supplementation with DHEA."

Other info:

"High fat diets and pesticide residues in food serve as additional sources of elevated estrogen exposure. This inadvertent estrogen exposure is increasing in both men and women throughout the world. In addition, high fat diets, especially those rich in animal fats or Omega 6 fatty acids can shift the metabolic pathways of estrogen towards 16-hydroxy metabolites. These "bad estrogens" are associated with higher rates of benign breast disease, and cancer in both women and men. A recent report of a large study of European women confirmed that dietary exposure to the estrogenic pesticide, Dieldren, was associated with increased risk of subsequent breast cancer. Exposure of breast cells in culture to organochlorine pesticides like Dieldrin increases the production of 16-hydroxy estrogen metabolites."

"Alternatively, diets rich in Omega-3 fatty acids from fish or supplemented with DIM produce more of the "good estrogens" identified as the 2-hydroxy metabolites of estradiol and estrone. Supplemental use of DIM promotes higher levels of 2-hydroxy estrogens. This use in animals has been shown to be associated with the prevention of spontaneous, estrogen related cancers of the breast and uterus."

"Dietary supplementation with diindolylmethane (DIM) from cruciferous vegetables has established an important and effective nutritional approach to increasing the safety of estrogen. The availability of dietary supplements containing DIM provide an important new alternative in preventive nutrition and offer a source of support for the hormonal systems of men and women."

"The supplemental use of DIM allows women to promote and maintain a safer metabolism of estrogen. This expands the opportunities for women to derive the full preventive health benefits from long term hormonal replacement. DIM also increases the safety of exposure to estrogen derived from DHEA. This supports the rationale for long term supplementation with DHEA by both men and women. Documented, aging-related changes in men support their need for an improved metabolism of estrogen."

"DIM use by men provides a promising dietary means to minimize the impact of increased estrogen on atherosclerosis and prostate disorders characteristic of andropause. These important benefits for successful aging in men and women all relate to an optimal and safer "estrogen balance"." http://www.dimfaq.com/site/articles.htm

---------The End--------

So, DIM appears to be the safest supplement when it comes to balancing estrogen and carries a lot of important health benefits for both men and women (besides controlling acne) which is good to know. It didn't say anything about not being able to take it if you're pregnant or planning to become pregnant, but I remember someone on here stating that if you could become pregnant, to avoid taking DIM (or genistein) but I have yet to find clear information on that. Seems that DIM can be taken long term?!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've found all this DIM stuff quite interesting. However, I've decided to approach it from a different way and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I'm a great believer in getting my vitamins from fruits/veg rather than pills so I'm upping cruciferous vegs in to my diet for the next few weeks to see if there is any effect on my hormonal spots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im interested in trying DIM. Does anyone have anyone have any ideas if it will be alright to take whilst taking herbs like Burdock Root? I still want to clean my body out so would prefer to not give up stuff like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing that makes me nervous about DIM though is after doing some research, though it lowers estrogen levels and can be great for someone who's estrogen dominant, it also raises free testosterone levels though, which contributes to oily skin, acne, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've found all this DIM stuff quite interesting. However, I've decided to approach it from a different way and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I'm a great believer in getting my vitamins from fruits/veg rather than pills so I'm upping cruciferous vegs in to my diet for the next few weeks to see if there is any effect on my hormonal spots.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've found all this DIM stuff quite interesting. However, I've decided to approach it from a different way and get it straight from the horses mouth so to speak. I'm a great believer in getting my vitamins from fruits/veg rather than pills so I'm upping cruciferous vegs in to my diet for the next few weeks to see if there is any effect on my hormonal spots.

I read a few places that you'll need to eat like 5lbs. of broccoli a day to match the dim content of the pills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that makes me nervous about DIM though is after doing some research, though it lowers estrogen levels and can be great for someone who's estrogen dominant, it also raises free testosterone levels though, which contributes to oily skin, acne, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the one that posted about DIM/Pregnancy. I read it on several websites. It went something like this, "Since DIM has anti-androgenic effects, do not use this product while pregnant because anti-androgens are proven to change the sex organs in fetuses."

You can probably find more info if you google, "DIM pregnancy".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that makes me nervous about DIM though is after doing some research, though it lowers estrogen levels and can be great for someone who's estrogen dominant, it also raises free testosterone levels though, which contributes to oily skin, acne, etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I found this article...

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsess...pageNo=0#bottom

The SHBG Issue

One consideration is the absolute versus relative effects of I3C and/or DIM on testosterone levels. The absolute effects are that it lowers the blood concentrations of testosterone, so that any time the hormone was measured, it would be lower. The relative effects refer to the alterations in biological activity that result from these absolute changes.

For example, even though total testosterone is lower, what if the free testosterone levels were increased? Increasing free T would increase the biological actions of testosterone. This doesn't seem likely, though.

There is some evidence that 2-hydroxyestrone increases sex hormone-binding globulin.(28) SHBG binds testosterone and makes it unavailable to interact with muscle and other tissues. If this occurs, the relative effects of I3C/DIM would be even more pronounced, resulting in not only lower total T levels, but also less functional levels of testosterone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So it seems that from Mandy's google search, there are some bodybuilding site and forums where DIM is discussed.

I did find this, though, which is interesting:

http://www.2tuu.com/html/diindolylmethane.html

DIM helps to eliminate active estrogen from the male body by promoting its conversion into the "good" metabolites. These metabolites then free up testosterone by bumping it off the testosterone-binding proteins. The end result is a healthier balance of testosterone to estrogen and more free testosterone circulating in the body. In scientific studies, high levels of testosterone and low levels of estrogen have been linked to lean body mass, an efficient fat-burning metabolism, and low abdominal obesity. Other benefits from testosterone are improved mood, more interest in sex, and better physical conditioning.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was thinking the placebo effect perhaps? I can't really say for sure. I think for those who've been using DIM should give it a good couple of months of use before really judging how well its clearing their skin. That goes for ANY hormonal treatment... hell, many people don't even see fast results with strong dht blockers or other hormonal treatments like spiro or birth control pills until after 3-6 months!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I was thinking the placebo effect perhaps? I can't really say for sure. I think for those who've been using DIM should give it a good couple of months of use before really judging how well its clearing their skin. That goes for ANY hormonal treatment... hell, many people don't even see fast results with strong dht blockers or other hormonal treatments like spiro or birth control pills until after 3-6 months!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So maybe a better solution for women who are estrogen dominant would be to eat as much raw cruciferous vegetables as possible, and use natural progesterone cream (since estrogen dominance means too much estrogen relative to progesterone).

Then again, if a DIM supplement could raise free testosterone, could lots of cruciferous vegetables do the same? :think:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that makes me nervous about DIM though is after doing some research, though it lowers estrogen levels and can be great for someone who's estrogen dominant, it also raises free testosterone levels though, which contributes to oily skin, acne, etc.

Interestingly, spearmint has been shown to reduce free testosterone, while leaving total testosterone unaffected. Maybe DIM + Spearmint would make a good combo?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I posted about spearmint a week ago... and according to the study, it said 2-5 cups of spearmint tea were needed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
One thing that makes me nervous about DIM though is after doing some research, though it lowers estrogen levels and can be great for someone who's estrogen dominant, it also raises free testosterone levels though, which contributes to oily skin, acne, etc.

Interestingly, spearmint has been shown to reduce free testosterone, while leaving total testosterone unaffected. Maybe DIM + Spearmint would make a good combo?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, I am new here, but like many others have been following for months. Just a little background info. I am 38 years old and always had really good skin, maybe a small pimple from time to time associated with my cycles. Approx 4 years ago, I went on Depo Provera (contraceptive injection) within days, I had several really large cyst-like pimples, mainly on my chin area for about 3 weeks out of every cycle, so large that for the one week where no more would develop, I would still have active acne, so it would feel relentless, also had redness across my nose, cheek and chin area. I went to see a derm, who said I had acne Rosacea, He said the depo Provera would not have caused it, but would irritate it. (he was rude, cost a bomb, and looked at my face for about 5 seconds, put me on an antibiotic that largely did nothing), I have taken care of the redness, but the acne still persist. Not as bad as when I was on the injection ( I have been off now for around 2 years). But still annoyingly hanging in there. Get the same sort of acne, but has cut down to about 3 - 5 on chin every couple of weeks, and a few now on my forehead - I know, doesn't sound all that dramatic, but they are large and take a long time to go away, and leave red scars. I am so tired of it.

I did have some really good success with "The healthy skin diet" book by Karen Fisher, particularly the lemon detox drink, but I am too busy to deal with having to make it every morning, and would prefer to just pop a tablet.

Have been following the DIM research you have all been doing, actually purchased some (source naturals 100mg) several months ago, but then didn't use it because I read that some people were getting worse. I had tried Vitex (chaste tree) not long before for a couple of weeks and it made me spot days before my periods, and would also make my periods last around 8 days instead of 5. I am becoming desperate again though, and have gotten about three quarters of the way through the thread about DIM clearing up acne in 1 week. But having 4 young children, I am low on time, can someone please sum up the results that you all got...last I was reading, some people had been on DIM about 4 weeks with good results.

Also is there anyone like me who has acne as a result of birth control? Would love to hear from anyone with a similar experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Personalized Advice Quiz - All of Acne.org in just a few minutes

×