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tampagirl

Just had UltraPulse Encore Fractional CO2

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The before/after pics are quite discouraging. I was hoping for better results. Anyways, I am having MaxFX done later this month. I am so nervous about that. Will post before and after pics. Just wish me luck. Hope I will see some good results... :pray:

I think the pictures are an accurate representation of what people with bad scarring can expect from laser treatment.

The pictures do show some improvement and that's better than nothing.

THe unfortunate reality is, no current technology currently exists to radically improve lots of deep scarring. Deep pitted scars seem to be the most difficult to treat. I'm having a hard time accepting this but that's the facts.

It's the people with moderate scarring who will probably be the happiest with laser treatment. They might see their shallow scars totally disappear. Lasers work even better on people who just have superficial red marks. Look at this guy, his acne red marks, or is that a birth mark, I'm not sure, are totally removed:

http://drfang01.so-buy.com/front/bin/ptdet...tml?Part=000001

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I don't think my scarring is as bad as the ones in those pics. I think it is mild to moderate, but to me it looks horrible anyways. I know I tend to exaggerate, but that's the way I feel. If I will see anything more than 60% improving, I will be thrilled.

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Bucksfan- I too had numbing cream and 3 tylenol...like having nothing at all.

tampagirl- When I was doing fraxel I paid $2500 all in all through many sessions for barely noticeable results. And for the Total FX fractional co2 I paid $1750 one time (doctor gave me $500 discount from $2250) and if I ever want it again only $1100. This is out of Denver Colorado.

Who did you go to?

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I could say more about differences, but that is all a person really needs to know. I hope my writing proves that you MUST do your research before undergoing and laser treatment. I knew what, when, where, how, and why before I decided to choose this laser.

AJ

PS. If i'm wrong about anything you can correct me, but I feel I'm fairly accurate in what I said.

How do you do research the person doing it though? There aren't a lot of people who have a fractional CO2 laser and since it's new, there aren't before and after pictures.

I think this is probably the only laser that will help my scarring, white hypertrophic scarring, but I don't know how to find the right person. The plastic surgeons I've been to don't focus on scarring and haven't seen scars like mine really. They mainly do wrinkles, which is more common than scarring on the face, so that's more profitable...

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Just wanted to let you guys and gals know that I am having the Total Fx done in Dec. My issues are fine lines under my eyes ( least concerned with ), sunspots, and some pitting from electrolysis and acne I guess. I had a consult with a Plastic Surgeon last week. I find it interesting that he only deals with issues of the neck up ( seeing as its my face, feel he might be more qualified than one who works on butts and boobs ). Suppose to be really good and has written books as well. His office offers microdermabrasion as well as chemical peels. Wasn't sure if either would give me results that I am looking for. After talking to him, he said that the issues I had concerns with, would be about 80% accomplished with the Total Fx. After researching several websites regarding lasers, this is what I believed would be best for me. So after having it done, I can let you know how it went.

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Good luck dolvid! Specializing in the neck up is actually quite common; he's most likely an otolaryngologist (ENT; ear, nose, throat). Very few "plastic surgeons" have actually done an integrated plastics residency.

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you will soon find that nothing comes close to ActiveFX; there are patents on the internal components and more and more, companies are trying to save money by using abandoned lasing mediums, old technologies as "new", or just inferior processes. there's a lot of crap out there.

the lumenis ultrapulse Encore does not need to be upgraded to perform ActiveFX. my father actually used the coherent model (ultrapulse 5000C) to pioneer the procedure. I'm willing to bet there are docs out there using this laser with the protocol and achieving successful results.

enjoy. pour on the questions ....I'm here to help folks!!!

nice original post as well ---- i'm a fan of the raw reports.

take care --- happy thanksgiving!

kevin

This sounds very similar to Sciton's profractional. I'm under the impression that some Drs who had full CO2 lasers, have converted/upgraded these to fractional versions. The downtime is supposed to be less, so I suppose this makes it viable for more people.

My PS's description sounds similar: microlaser peel plus pro-fractional in the same treatment. Numbing cream, plus some sort of oral sedation. Expect 4-5 days downtime. No discussion about multiple treatments.

Glad to hear that you are pleased, as I'm scheduled in a few weeks. I'm a bit nervous about it, especially the thought of oral sedation. Wondering if this is similar sedation of colonoscopy (haven't had that, either).

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The combination fx offers something over fraxel. You're getting much more resurfacing and for a cheaper price.

Deep scar resurfacing plus superficial pigment resurfacing in one treatment.

So over a course of 5-6 you'd theoretically have a much better result than with the same number of fraxels.

I'm not sure though that FX goes as deep as Fraxel for scarring. C02 is also ablative so I'm not sure more than one treatment is wise. You lose about 10 percent of your skin with each C02 resurfacing. (That's vaporized tissue that's gone forever.)

I'm still new at figuring out all the laser stuff but I'm guessing what this girl had done is the CO2 fractional laser...a combination of Fraxel but with better results. Also, the CO2 Fractional laser is NON-ABLATIVE. I made sure before I decided to do it. I haven't done yet...I'll do it this next Tuesday but I made sure that it was non-ablative and there is no ozzing or crusting involved. A big plus since you definitely don't want to run the risk of more scarring!

hope this helps a little! Good luck to everyone!

HI ,I think the CO2 fractional laser is ablative but the side effects are reduced compared to the old CO2.

hmmm...that's interesting because my doctor told me that the CO2 fractional laser was non-ablative. Now I'm curious....

Hello and it is probably too late to post this but as an MD who stumbled across this board, I wanted you to know. Fraxel CO2 (repair) is absolutely ablative and if you doctor told you differently he does not understand laser physics. I recommend the procedure but it is ablative.

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Hi guys,

I am back from Odessa (Ukraine) where I had my laser procedure on December 18 and I want to share this experience with you. I had Max Fx on my full face, whereas the doctor went deeper only on my nose, cheeks and chin, where the most scarring was. Max Fx is a deep full CO2 laser, not a fractional one, and it was supposed to give very good results. The downtime was (and still is) quite long. I am almost on my 2 week post procedure and I still can't go out in public. Face is still deep pink, the forehead looking slightly paler. All in all I am VERY disappointed by the results. I got I think less than 30% improvement. One or two scars look slightly better, the other one are exactly the same. And it is not only my impression. My family was expecting me to return home completely changed and they couldn't see any improvement. I am so disappointed you can't imagine. I put all my fucking hopes in this fucking laser treatment. And my scarring was only moderate. I am sick of everything. Hope my face will return to its initial color, otherwise I end up crazy. I took pics every day post laser procedure. Will post them later.

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FYI ---- everyone needs to research their practitioner, the skill and expertise, the anticipated results.

CO2 is an advanced laser treatment. It looks easy, but this story right here is a first-hand experience of what appears to be an unsatisfied patient. Note: MaxFX is a major skin resurfacing treatment that does require general anesthesia. ActiveFX is a fractionated version, which can be successfully performed with topical anesthesia.

I encourage anyone seeking laser treatment to thoroughly investigate the options, ask as many questions as possible, and also seek treatment at a reputable facility with a reputable physician.

my father performs laser and aesthetic procedures 6 days a week --- Dr. Glenn DeBias.

see www.ilamed.com for further info.

I'm more than happy to assist with your goals ---- however, I'm not a physician myself.

Good luck, happy new year, and stay HEALTHY!!!!!

sincerely,

kevin

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this one right? yeh his before and afters look good..but who cares..3 pics isnt enough.. docs need to put at least 30 pics up...y dont they? simple..becayse they dont have much success.

Thats what these pics are supposed to make us believe,that this treatment removes acne scar.

These pics are taken in different lighting and with different facial expressions,i couldn't believe a picture unless i took them myself.

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One of the doc I spoke to who has UltraPulse Encore, Total FX (Deep FX & Active FX) said that DeepFX is better for deeper scars than UltraPulse. DeepFX downtime (can't go out) can be 7-14 days with redness/change in color of skin lasting for months.

I think for Asians, you can't be too aggressive with DeepFX or you get discoloration for a long time (as seen in the pics in website given). But then, you'd need more Tx with weaker settings.

Some docs believe that 4-5 Erbium Fraxels (latest version) can give better result than one CO2 fraxel.

Others believe not even close. And that it even outperforms traditional CO2 resurfacing because it ablates deeper (up to 1.6mm?).

I've seen some impressive results with erbium fraxels as well as CO2 fraxels, I mean if you put them side by side, you notice that are very impressive (with moderate/severe scars, pits). I've also seen some very unimpressive results - I guess it also has to do with expertise of the doc.

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Wow- I would be happy if I got the results shown in those pics. I am planning to do ActiveFX (w DeepFX in areas) in February, but I am so scared that it will be another waste of money. When I read that some, like nma here, are disappointed, I don't know what to decide. I have seen photos online that look like there was no improvement at all and some that look amazing- so I wonder if they're fake. When reading reviews you hear of people who are very happy and others who claim it did nothing for them.

I am anxious to see silversunpickup's results.

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you went all the way to the uKRAINE based on a certain website ive seen before...saw it when i typed in acne scarring

www.vsm-skinlaser.com.ua

this one right? yeh his before and afters look good..but who cares..3 pics isnt enough.. docs need to put at least 30 pics up...y dont they? simple..becayse they dont have much success.

Yes, that's it. I live in Romania. Ukraine is not THAT far, so the cost of the plane ticket was reasonable (about 320 euro).

I did not take my decision to go there based on only 3 pics. I have been in contact with that doc since August. My father (who is Ukrainian) also discussed with him on the phone.

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Wow- I would be happy if I got the results shown in those pics. I am planning to do ActiveFX (w DeepFX in areas) in February, but I am so scared that it will be another waste of money. When I read that some, like nma here, are disappointed, I don't know what to decide. I have seen photos online that look like there was no improvement at all and some that look amazing- so I wonder if they're fake. When reading reviews you hear of people who are very happy and others who claim it did nothing for them.

I am anxious to see silversunpickup's results.

Believe me, I put all my hopes in this treatment. And since it was a deep laser, it was supposed to give good results. At first I thought, oh my god, my face looks amazing, I couldn't see any more scars. That is because my face was still a little bit swollen I guess. Gradually they became more and more visible.

Here are 2 photos before the laser procedure:

foto026.jpg

foto027.jpg

Scars look the same even after the laser procedure. :(

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hey kevin..looks like a top practise..i do believe the Smartxide and Deep Fx are the best 2 co2 fractionals out there..still tho..could your website post a substantial amount of before and afters ( acne scarring) just so people can have a good idea.I know that sounds odd but ppl are becoming very skeptical. I do know its in the right hands a great laser.but still..need more pics. like you know..breast augmentation..it seems docs have 10000000's of pics of beforeas and afters of that procedure LOL

yes, we typically show our pictures in the office. there are some reasons:

-control of materials being used and how they're being used.

-misinterpretation of the procedure because someone achieved certain results.

-ability to interact with patients on a personal level.

I'm working on this, however....

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Wow- I would be happy if I got the results shown in those pics. I am planning to do ActiveFX (w DeepFX in areas) in February, but I am so scared that it will be another waste of money. When I read that some, like nma here, are disappointed, I don't know what to decide. I have seen photos online that look like there was no improvement at all and some that look amazing- so I wonder if they're fake. When reading reviews you hear of people who are very happy and others who claim it did nothing for them.

I am anxious to see silversunpickup's results.

Believe me, I put all my hopes in this treatment. And since it was a deep laser, it was supposed to give good results. At first I thought, oh my god, my face looks amazing, I couldn't see any more scars. That is because my face was still a little bit swollen I guess. Gradually they became more and more visible.

Here are 2 photos before the laser procedure:

foto026.jpg

foto027.jpg

Scars look the same even after the laser procedure. :(

NOTE: They look the same but not worse ....there is a difference even though it may not be of interest.

Also note, there is a skin rebuilding process. These results may improve over time and it requires patience. Will they be great? I have no idea. You may elect to have the procedure performed again to improve your results .....it all depends on your goals.

Nevertheless, scars and stretch marks are one of the toughest concerns to treat and, therefore, you will see/hear/read patients who may not be impressed.

be patient and be glad you did not have a different outcome! your doc may also be more conservative .....this is not uncommon in a good laser practice.

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NOTE: They look the same but not worse ....there is a difference even though it may not be of interest.

Oh, what a relief. :))

At this moment, I only want my skin to return to its normal color. If there is no improvement in the way my scars look, at least I want my face to look like before the laser procedure.

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HELLO I JUST HAD THE C02 FRACTIONAL LASER TOO.TWO DAYS AGO.IT HURT LIKE HELL.ONE PASS AND TWO PASSES WHERE NEEDED.I JUST WANTED A CLEANER SKIN LOOK.EVEN TONED.IM LOOKING LIKE I SAT ON A GRILL OR SOMETHING BUT ITS TO BE EXPECTED.IMPORTANT PART ALL DAY LONG USE THE SALVE CREAM DONT LET SKIN GET TO DRY/PLUS I ADDED A PURE VITAMIN E.EVERYDAY GETS A LITTLE BETTER.BUT GOSH AT FIRST YOU JUST WANT TO BE ALONE.I GUESS 5 DAYS YOU CAN WEAR A UNDERCOAT BLEACH CREAM UNDER MAKE UP IF YOU PEEL ITS FINE IT WILL LOOK OKAY STILL.

NOTE: They look the same but not worse ....there is a difference even though it may not be of interest.

Oh, what a relief. :))

At this moment, I only want my skin to return to its normal color. If there is no improvement in the way my scars look, at least I want my face to look like before the laser procedure.

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Hi

I am new here. I am Chinese living in Melbourne Australia. I have severe acne scarring over my cheeks and my nose for the last 15 years. I had tried chemical peels, cooltouch laser and Affirm laser - none of which really made much difference. I had 1 treament with Fraxel in October 2008 and I thought this made a 10% improvement, but when i went back for the second treatment and looked at the before / after photo's, I realised there was almost no improvement so the doctor suggested I have a treatment with her new Deep Fx laser.

I had numbing cream on my face for an hour followed by local anaesthetic injections. I didnt feel much pain, only at times when they hit areas that were not blocked properly by the injection.

No one explained to me what the differences between the Fraxel and Deep Fx were, only that the Deep Fx was ablative and more agressive and would take a few more days to heal. I was expecting the healing to be like the fraxel.

I was horrified when I got home and found my face continually oozing and bleeding. This eventually stopped but I am now covered with thick purple scabs all over my cheeks and nose.

I am now so worried that i will get new scars from this treatment as I scar and hyperpigment very easily. It is 2 days since I had the procedure.

What are other peoples experiences? When can I expect the scabs to fall off? What can I do to help reduce the risk of more scarring? Any pills or creams recommended?

Cheers

G

post-92577-1231653098_thumb.jpg

post-92577-1231653098_thumb.jpg

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you do not want to pick or peel these scabs. leave them to fall off naturally. be gentle with washing. no harsh cleansers or exfoliants right now.

just keep your skin moist and cool.... i would just stay in touch with your treating physician/office.

aquaphor, made by eucerin, is a healing ointment that should be available in your local drug store.

stay away from anything hot and avoid prolonged direct sunlight. you will reduce many complications and aid in your skin's natural healing process.

best,

kevin

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you do not want to pick or peel these scabs. leave them to fall off naturally. be gentle with washing. no harsh cleansers or exfoliants right now.

just keep your skin moist and cool.... i would just stay in touch with your treating physician/office.

aquaphor, made by eucerin, is a healing ointment that should be available in your local drug store.

stay away from anything hot and avoid prolonged direct sunlight. you will reduce many complications and aid in your skin's natural healing process.

best,

kevin

Thanks so much Kevin,

I could not find Aquaphor in Australia so I went to see my Dr today and she gave me DermAid 1% cream to apply on the scab area.She said I scabed serious than other so it would take longer time to heal:(

I had to dress like a ninja to go out today:scarf on my face, big sunnie and hood in 36'C boiling hot weather.

Cheers,

G

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Is anyone still reading this forum? A few of my scabs have fallen off to reveal craters much deeper that the original scars. What's other peoples experience? will these craters flatten out over time? When can I expect all of my scabs to be gone - its now day 9 and only about 10% have fallen off.

I have to go overseas in 4 days and I am scared my scars will look worse than before.

G

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Hi everyone. This forum has been a wonderful source of information for me and I wanted to pay it back by relaying my laser resurfacing experience.

I just had the newest laser treatment that is a cross between Fraxel and traditional CO2.

Background: In addition to cystic acne scars, I have terrible scars from 3 seperate facial traumas and uneven skin tone. I was desperate for improvement and consulted with many plastic surgeons and a few dermatologists.

Treatment so far: 1.Face lift (recommended by 2 diff drs) to tighten skin - done 9 mo ago. Great looking but not sure it did much for scars.

2. Continued use of Tanzorak (Retin A) and hydroquinine 10% (also great but must use every single day)

Drs. recommended REAL dermabrasion (too scary for me) and CO2 (big downtime, higher risks) and Fraxel (5 treatments for $5k - you've got to be kidding - less than impressive before and afters) and this new laser - Fractionalized CO2 (my choice)

I had some sculptra injections in one very depressed area and was not impressed.

I plan to finish out with other dermal fillers in a few months - still deciding on which one.

Anyway - thought I would share my experience so far. Lumenis makes this laser. See for info and video.

TIME - It took about 45 minutes but I had to get there an hour early to get topical anesthetic and a ativan (which i insisted on). This is a one time laser treatment. I was unconvinced about the 4-8 fraxel treatments that I would have needed.

PAIN - I won't lie to you - it hurt like hell. They did 2 passes. The first pass was "DEEP FX" on the scars. It stung like being slapped in the face but was tolerable. I could actually smell burning skin - not awful, just weird smell.

The second pass was "ACTIVE FX" all over - which treated skin discoloration and wrinkles (I didn't have any after face lift)It is not as deep as DEEP FX and should not have hurt much but, evidently, the first pass made my skin VERY sensitive so the second pass felt like red hot needles being poked deeply into my face. They would do 4 pulses in a row then stop to let me breathe. No kidding. The morale of the story is don't do this without some kind of heavier sedative and a ride home (halcion?)- if you have a 2 pass treatment. However, the nurse told me that another patient had 2 pass treatment and didn't have the pain that I seemed to have. I never really thought I was a pain wimp, but perhaps I am. I had halcion for major tooth surgery and it was GREAT - don't remember a thing.

DOWNTIME - I was hidden from the public for about 4 or 5 days. On the 4th or 5th day I went to gro. store for a short time. Can't stay out too long because face continued to peel and makeup would peel right off with it.

Right after the procedure my face was beet red with tiny red dots all over. The red dots are where the laser actualy penetrated skin. I had to wear gooey gel to keep it moist for the first 4 days. Unpleasant to sleep in, but worth it. Each day I would wash my face and dead skin would slough off - not like a peeling sunburn though. Each day the redness would lessen, as would the sloughing until about the 4th or 5th day. Amazing how this didn't hurt.

However, 12 days later my skin still sloughs off - which is a good thing. Doesn't look bad with makeup, though.

--- note -- I had a deep chemical peel about 10 years ago and it DID hurt post-procedure and my face peeled off like a bad sunburn for about a week. I don't think it did that great of a job improving much of anything.

RESULTS: I will upload pictures later. I am very happy with the results so far. The Dr. says I can expect to see continued improvement (healing) for up to a year as collagen is built down deep. Specifically, depressed scars are MUCH softer already and continue to look better each day. One surprise was the reduction in pore size, which I didn't really expect. My pores look like they did at 20. I am 47 now. Skin discoloration improvement is not as great as I thought it would be, but I hope it will also improve over time. I had white spots interspursed with brown sun damage discoloration. Skin bleach was my only hope there.

COST: Here in Tampa, expect to pay at least 2500. I don't think this is bad because fraxel is about $500 each time, not including the pain-in-the-butt-factor.

OVERALL PERCEPTION:

Fast (45 min), one time - as opposed to fraxel 4+ visits

No risk of worse scarring (chem peel or co2 can scar)

High procedure pain factor (co2 is no pain because you are out)

Fair cost (CO2 would be 5k - anesthesia required -deep chem peel too)

Low post proceure pain (chem peel DID hurt afterwards)

Expect 4-6 days downtime (co2 or chem peel realistically at LEAST 10 days fraxel no downtime)

Actual improvement - I will know in about 4 months. So far I am really happy. I am glad to answer questions but admit I don't log on every single day ...

- tampagirl

I just had Active Fx 5 days ago to try and diminish some of the icepick scarring that I have. It did hurt like hell, and up until day 4, I looked like an oompa loompa alien. I don't look too great right not either on day 5, but what is really upsetting me are the onset of huge cystic acne pimples on my chin and above my lip (I never get pimples above my lip) They make you wear a heavy layer of Vaseline or Aquaphor every day on the lasered skin. I am starting to slough off the old layer of skin, but I am really bummed out about the pimples I am getting. I hardly had any zits before that weren't due to self-infliction, because I have an OCD problem with picking clogged pores, but I've been better about picking lately and it improved my complexion, but now I have a whole bunch of zits, and it's not because I picked anything, they just appeared. I also have clogged pores which don't hurt, but the whiteheads are gross, and I had to gently squeeze them out, even though I probably shouldn't have, but what am I supposed to do? Ignore them? That is impossible for me. I don't know if this was worth it. I didn't want to pay a ton of money to help my existing scars only to get more deep acne which will lead to more scarring. I am 39 years old, and my skin looked pretty decent before the Active Fx (when I wasn't picking at my face), besides the icepick scarring that I've always been so self-conscious about. To be honest, maybe it is the swelling on the tissues that surround my scars, but I feel that my scars are actually MORE noticeable than they were before Active Fx. Only time will tell if this was really worth it or not. But I FREAKING HATE PIMPLES, and this caused more of them, lots more. I am actually really depressed right now. I have to keep Vaseline on my face which is making me paranoid that more and more pimples are sprouting under that thick layer of goo. This really sucks. I wouldn't suggest doing this to anyone that doesn't have too bad of a complexion, because I think this makes acne worse.

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Is anyone still reading this forum? A few of my scabs have fallen off to reveal craters much deeper that the original scars. What's other peoples experience? will these craters flatten out over time? When can I expect all of my scabs to be gone - its now day 9 and only about 10% have fallen off.

I have to go overseas in 4 days and I am scared my scars will look worse than before.

G

http://drfang01.so-buy.com/front/bin/ptdet...tml?Part=x00010

Check out this link.

It looks worse before it gets better I think.Btw,how much did you pay for deep FX?

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