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User47728

Fructose, Insulin, And Taurine!

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This MUST be the best thread ever on this board. So informative!

The news on Vitamin D is really really interesting! Please keep us updated!

Yeah, I love this thread.

This thread and the fructose and diet part is important to my vit D theory because an antiinflammatory diet is critical to my theory. I don't think someone who already has acne can get rid of it with the addition of vit D, without the antiinflammatory diet. (Someone without acne I think can prevent it with vit D/sun alone and eat all the pizza they want...but if they become D deficient with that pizza: watch out! Thats my theory.) There was an old study trying to use D as acne therapy but there was an inflammation problem. I doubt they countered it with diet or any other means...and I think the theory just fizzled. (Anyway, the sun is free. Who would pay for the research? Maybe the pharmas will come up with a D derivative that also counters inflammation and make money, but......OK, sorry, I won't digress. )

Another thing folks, re: D...there are 2 forms in the body: calcidiol (free D, used as raw material for the active type) and calcitriol (the active form that acts on receptors). I found info that on day 15 of the menstrual cyc there has been an observed spike of calcitriol, with no change to overall calcium. I reason that in order for that to happen, calcitriol has to be produced from calcidiol. In order for calcidiol to stay in homeostasis, the body would then either have to produce more calcidiol or borrow from its stores. If you are in a state of vit D deficiency, .... what happens? If acne is our body's outward way of saying that the body is deficient in vit D (which is produced by skin, thus making skin the likely signal-giver), then it would make sense then that there could be menstrual cycle related acne in vit D deficient people. Just a point of interest and something I will personally be paying attention to in my experiment. Also, the study showed there wasn't the spike in women on bcp.

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sie:

Thanks for the message. Great stuff on vitamin D.

I have noticed that my skin does look much better when I get lots of regular sunlight or use a tanning device.

I am testing some things using vitamin D right now on my website.

It will be interesting to see if I can get my vitamin D into a perfect optimal range using my tanning device and then see what happens.

I have also seen the connections between Vitamin A and Vitamin D and I immediately thought "Accutane" as well. It's a very interesting theory that has a lot of promise...keep us updated if you come up with anything new.

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LiliVG: You mentioned that you would switch to a coenzyme B complex?

While still aiming at at complex 25 dosage.

I have found this co-enzymate B complex: http://www.super-smart.eu/article.pl?id=0040

But I can't really figure out what "dosage" it is? :)

So if you could help me out a bit...at first glance it does seem like a "25mg" ?

Secondly, does it contain all the B vitamins it's supposed to, aswell as no bad stuff?

You know, after now having tried both regular b complex, and coenzyme b complex, I really couldn't say that the coenzyme seemed more effective. They both seemed about the same effectiveness, so it doesn't seem like it's really worth it to put in a lot of excess work to find a coenzyme form when the regular one seems to work just as well. In fact, I don't know if it was just my imagination or not, but the regular seems to work slightly better. I have noticed coenzyme is harder to come by in health food stores, so I think it's fine to get the regular b complex if that's easier for you.

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Interesting connections regarding vit D and inflammation. Looks like it's time to swap my Flora brand fish oil for some Carlson's Cod Liver Oil (vit A, D, and omega-3 all in one convenient bottle).

LiliVG, great thread BTW. You taurine, b25, cayenne combo has been working well for me so far. I'm the perfect example of "once bitten, twice shy", but I know you're on to something here. For once, I've found a meaningful thread that aims to stop the 'cause' and not the 'symptoms'.

-Cleric

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Interesting connections regarding vit D and inflammation. Looks like it's time to swap my Flora brand fish oil for some Carlson's Cod Liver Oil (vit A, D, and omega-3 all in one convenient bottle).

LiliVG, great thread BTW. You taurine, b25, cayenne combo has been working well for me so far. I'm the perfect example of "once bitten, twice shy", but I know you're on to something here. For once, I've found a meaningful thread that aims to stop the 'cause' and not the 'symptoms'.

-Cleric

I'm so glad it's helping you! :)

I have always been frustrated by the mainstream medical community's focus on symptom suppression. The last few times I went to the doctor, I was baffled by the unspoken assumption doctors seem to have that people only go to the doctor to swat away pesky symptoms, and don't care in the least about *why* they have those symptoms. I had to actually interrupt a doctor once, mid-prescription, and tell them I didn't want a prescription, I wanted to know *why* I was having that particular problem, so I could fix *that*. The doctor seemed a little thrown off and said rather dismissively, "oh, it's probably just an allergic tendency", as if that was perfectly normal. WHY do I have an allergic tendency didn't seem to be a concern for the doctor in the least. Probably just the assumption that it's "genetic" as usual. It seems doctors like to slap this "genetic" label on things that they really have no idea what's going on with, but still want to sound smart.

You might like another thread I made called "The Bigger Picture, as I see it", it's linked to on the first post of this thread. It goes into more specific detail of the direct cause-effect of the western diet on health in general.

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Interesting connections regarding vit D and inflammation. Looks like it's time to swap my Flora brand fish oil for some Carlson's Cod Liver Oil (vit A, D, and omega-3 all in one convenient bottle).

LiliVG, great thread BTW. You taurine, b25, cayenne combo has been working well for me so far. I'm the perfect example of "once bitten, twice shy", but I know you're on to something here. For once, I've found a meaningful thread that aims to stop the 'cause' and not the 'symptoms'.

-Cleric

EVERYONE MUST TAKE CARE NOT TO GET TOO MUCH VITAMIN A. I don't believe it is possible to get winter adequate levels of vit D from fish oil, without getting TOO much vit A. Fish oil is great, but if you really want the potential benefit of vit D, supplement with plain D-3 too. DON'T overdo the vit A!!!!!!!EMPHASIS!!!!!!!!!!

I think everybody should read the conclusions of this file. It pretty much solves things. took awhile to come across this. Its almost as if the "they" have known all along. they didn't include skin here, so if you have any doubts, just look up the meaning of "epithelial cells" and "proliferation" and look also at this next file...

Here's a great over view file. (You have to download the pdf file.) It also shows how insulin screws things up in the skin by causing more proliferation and how vit D and apparently calcium, among other things help fix it. I am leary of the vit A. I always thought it was more for "interior" or mucousy membranes, not external cornified skin. But vit A is mentioned in the doc too. Good reading.

I've found alot more about the insulin. Just go to pubmed and type insulin vitamin d.

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Interesting connections regarding vit D and inflammation. Looks like it's time to swap my Flora brand fish oil for some Carlson's Cod Liver Oil (vit A, D, and omega-3 all in one convenient bottle).

LiliVG, great thread BTW. You taurine, b25, cayenne combo has been working well for me so far. I'm the perfect example of "once bitten, twice shy", but I know you're on to something here. For once, I've found a meaningful thread that aims to stop the 'cause' and not the 'symptoms'.

-Cleric

EVERYONE MUST TAKE CARE NOT TO GET TOO MUCH VITAMIN A. I don't believe it is possible to get winter adequate levels of vit D from fish oil, without getting TOO much vit A. Fish oil is great, but if you really want the potential benefit of vit D, supplement with plain D-3 too. DON'T overdo the vit A!!!!!!!EMPHASIS!!!!!!!!!!

I think everybody should read the conclusions of this file. It pretty much solves things. took awhile to come across this. Its almost as if the "they" have known all along. they didn't include skin here, so if you have any doubts, just look up the meaning of "epithelial cells" and "proliferation" and look also at this next file...

Here's a great over view file. (You have to download the pdf file.) It also shows how insulin screws things up in the skin by causing more proliferation and how vit D and apparently calcium, among other things help fix it. I am leary of the vit A. I always thought it was more for "interior" or mucousy membranes, not external cornified skin. But vit A is mentioned in the doc too. Good reading.

I've found alot more about the insulin. Just go to pubmed and type insulin vitamin d.

Approximately how much vit A is too much?

-Cleric

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How much vit A is too much?

I don't really know but I know that it is an issue. Apparently it is rare that there is vit D toxicity because you'd have to take so much of it. But occasionally there is vit A toxicity where someone was trying to get enough vit D by taking too large amount of cod liver oil..and ended up w/too much A. Maybe read some websites.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition...ifications.html

(esp. read down the page where it points out that not all oils have the same vit A, some have more)

Or look up a few diff. sites online

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How much vit A is too much?

I don't really know but I know that it is an issue. Apparently it is rare that there is vit D toxicity because you'd have to take so much of it. But occasionally there is vit A toxicity where someone was trying to get enough vit D by taking too large amount of cod liver oil..and ended up w/too much A. Maybe read some websites.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition...ifications.html

(esp. read down the page where it points out that not all oils have the same vit A, some have more)

Or look up a few diff. sites online

Thanks for that.

I actually did some digging myself and found a section on vit A in an e-book I've had since 2004. It says to not take a daily dose of over 30,000 IU of vit A. Then it goes on to mention that the best way to take vit A is through beta-carotene supplementation...

"Your body will only convert as much carotenes into vitamin A as it needs; therefore, carotenes are non-toxic. It is virtually impossible to get a toxic dose; however, if you take very high doses (300,000 - 500,000 IU) your skin will orange or yellow. This is perfectly harmless however. It will return to normal after you reduce the dose." (Leo Kiesen, Your LAST Acne Solution).

...I should therefore be able to supplement with carotenoids (safely) and achieve the same results as opposed to straight vit A, right?

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How much vit A is too much?

I don't really know but I know that it is an issue. Apparently it is rare that there is vit D toxicity because you'd have to take so much of it. But occasionally there is vit A toxicity where someone was trying to get enough vit D by taking too large amount of cod liver oil..and ended up w/too much A. Maybe read some websites.

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/vitamins/vitaminA/

http://www.westonaprice.org/basicnutrition...ifications.html

(esp. read down the page where it points out that not all oils have the same vit A, some have more)

Or look up a few diff. sites online

Thanks for that.

I actually did some digging myself and found a section on vit A in an e-book I've had since 2004. It says to not take a daily dose of over 30,000 IU of vit A. Then it goes on to mention that the best way to take vit A is through beta-carotene supplementation...

"Your body will only convert as much carotenes into vitamin A as it needs; therefore, carotenes are non-toxic. It is virtually impossible to get a toxic dose; however, if you take very high doses (300,000 - 500,000 IU) your skin will orange or yellow. This is perfectly harmless however. It will return to normal after you reduce the dose." (Leo Kiesen, Your LAST Acne Solution).

...I should therefore be able to supplement with carotenoids (safely) and achieve the same results as opposed to straight vit A, right?

Not sure. As I said in an earlier post, I am currently only using vit D (and calc), not fish oil, to avoid the possibility of vit A interaction. I mean, I don't plan on any vit A supplementation because I want to see the results of just boosting my vit D first. So I haven't fully researched vit A. But i have heard beta carotene is safer and weaker. If you suppl. w/beta caro., youmight just want to follow the label. Just remember to make sure the fish oil doesn't have A too or you'll be doubleloading .

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Because of the fact that your can't overdose on beta carotene, it doesn't have the same effect as megadosing vitamin A. Beta carotene is a self limiting supplement, so the high levels of vitamin A that create results are not possible with beta carotene. Also, beta carotene supplementation is associated with a higher incidence of cancer in some.

Anyway, for the quality of the thread, try not to digress too much. The vitamin D fits in because it effects insulin resistance, but I feel like the thread is starting to stray a bit. I'm obviously not opposed to an informative discussion, I'm just keeping future readers in mind. :)

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I like the vitamin d thing though because it makes a lot of sense as far as a "natural" perspective. Clothes are pretty unnatural if you think about it (Not that I'm suggesting people run around naked, lol), and people probably spent much more time outside than we do now. That may be a factor in other cultures that don't have acne.

I just took some vitamin d, only about 800IU, but it's a start, lol. We'll see if it makes me break out or not. If it helps, I may add it to the "official" regimen, because it improves insulin resistance the way taurine does, and that's a major factor in this system.

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Great topic and research work by LillyVG. I've been reading it since Saturday and have covered 20 pages ever since (4 more to do later since it's a bit late now :))). VERY entertaining indeed. GREAT JOB LillyVG. Am I falling in love with pharmaceutics and biochem? :°)

Haven't yet tried the RedBull option yet as I know I am quite sensitive to caffeine - so a bit afraid of triggering things in the wrong direction. Have already ordered some Tau online and am definitely going to get some pure powdered or tablet Taurine and Cayenne to give it a try tomorrow at a GNC or elsewhere.

Have a few questions though on the accompanying alimentary regimen:

1. Are vinegars OK to intake, especially balsamic vinegar? Am I really fond of of the latter and would like to know if it's OK to continue with along with sauces like Worchester and the likes.

2. Are almonds OK to eat while on it?

3. What about dried fruits with no added sugar? Are they safe?

And some general ones:

4. What is the best brand for Taurine and Cayenne and where do you usually get them (and at what price)?

5. Is the Taurine regimen OK to mix with the B5 one as I find it one quite promising too. What do you guys think of it, BTW?

Am really looking forward to hearing your opinion. Many thanx in advance! :)

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4. What is the best brand for Taurine and Cayenne and where do you usually get them (and at what price)?

5. Is the Taurine regimen OK to mix with the B5 one as I find it one quite promising too. What do you guys think of it, BTW?

Am really looking forward to hearing your opinion. Many thanx in advance! :)

I've used GNC taurine and now I use a powder from Fagron. I can recommend both. I'm sure other people can recommend you some more brands.

B5 and taurine won't work together. You have to take taurine with a multi-B vitamin, because it needs B6 to work, and B6 needs the other Bs. Megadosing on B5 while taking taurine would cause a defficiency in all other B-vitamins, and taurine wouldn't even work because you wouldn't be adding any B6.

If you want to add another supplement, go for fish oil. I a take salmon oil capsule with an Ester-C pill every other day. And a multi-mineral is also highly recommended.

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I don't know. I got plenty of vitamin D from the sun up until some time in my early to mid 20s. Although, there have been people who say the sun helps them.

Also, didn't someone mention taurine being a diuretic? Because I just started taking a very minimum dosage and I am dying.

I was going to get MSM, but thought I'd try going through one bottle of tuarine in case it did some liver healing and some other reasons I don't recall. Now I wish I got the MSM.

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Thanx for your prompt response, Alfalfa.

What about my first three questions? Anyone?

Also, I would like to know what fruits are acceptable (other than Apples and Pears) beyond the initial phase of the regimen?

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Have a few questions though on the accompanying alimentary regimen:

1. Are vinegars OK to intake, especially balsamic vinegar? Am I really fond of of the latter and would like to know if it's OK to continue with along with sauces like Worchester and the likes.

According to ND, 1 tbsp. of balsamic vinegar has 2g of sugars; approx. 50:50 fructose to glucose ratio. If our goal is to minimize/eliminate inflammation caused by sugars (the most dangerous culprit being fructose), then I would say you should limit your balsamic intake. Granted, every individual is different -- I take about 1 tbsp. of balsamic daily and have yet to experience a breakout from it, though taurine could be a factor in that...

2. Are almonds OK to eat while on it?

1 ounce of blanched almonds has 1.3g of sucrose which may be mildly inflammatory on its own, but the o-9 and dietary fibre should make up for that. I'm assuming you're not allergic to nuts, so I'd say it's okay.

3. What about dried fruits with no added sugar? Are they safe?

Unless I'm missing something, I don't see why they'd be a problem. Not sure if the drying process removes any of the nutrients in the fruit, I'll look into this one.

Hope that helps.

-Cleric

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Thanx for your reply, Cleric.

Where do you get the sugar repartition from? Cauz most of the times the ND only says Sugars - how am I supposed to know if they come from Glucose, Fructose, Dextrose, etc.?

Also, would like to double-check if beans, lens and buckwheat are OK for intake?

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Have a few questions though on the accompanying alimentary regimen:

1. Are vinegars OK to intake, especially balsamic vinegar? Am I really fond of of the latter and would like to know if it's OK to continue with along with sauces like Worchester and the likes.

2. Are almonds OK to eat while on it?

3. What about dried fruits with no added sugar? Are they safe?

And some general ones:

4. What is the best brand for Taurine and Cayenne and where do you usually get them (and at what price)?

5. Is the Taurine regimen OK to mix with the B5 one as I find it one quite promising too. What do you guys think of it, BTW?

Am really looking forward to hearing your opinion. Many thanx in advance! :)

1. Vinegar is great for digestion, so a big yes on vinegar!

2. Some people have allergies/ acne reactions to nuts. I'd leave them out until you would be able to test to see if they caused you a reaction or not. I can't eat almonds or most nuts at all.

3.Dried fruits are extremely high in sugar, I'd stay away from them for now until you can test them individually to see if they give you problems.

4. I've tried Jarrow, and that worked great, but is more expensive, and Now Foods taurine in 1000mg capsules which Now Foods calls "double strength" for some reason, which is much less expensive. They both work fine. I haven't tried any other brands.

5. B-5 interferes with taurine in the body, so they are incompatible regimens. In addition to that, high doses of one single b vitamin drains you of several of the other b vitamins due to their interdependent nature. For example, if you were to megadose on b-6, you'd quickly have a b-2 deficiency because the liver uses b-2 in order to convert b-6 to it's active form. So then you'd start having b-2 deficiency symptoms: chronically chapped lips, flaky skin, and dry irritated eyes. All of the b vitamins rely on several other b vitamins in order to work properly, so it's very important to not megadose on any single b vitamin, and it it's also important to always takes all the b vitamins together.

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Thanx for your reply, Cleric.

Where do you get the sugar repartition from? Cauz most of the times the ND only says Sugars - how am I supposed to know if they come from Glucose, Fructose, Dextrose, etc.?

If you scroll down to the carbs section, you can see the breakdown...

Here's the one for balsamic vinegar (1 tbsp):

Carbohydrates

Amounts Per Selected Serving %DV

Total Carbohydrate 2.7 g 1%

Dietary Fiber 0.0 g 0%

Starch ~

Sugars 2.4 g

Sucrose 0.0 mg

Glucose 1211 mg

Fructose 1181 mg

Lactose 0.0 mg

Maltose 0.0 mg

Galactose 0.0 mg

Also, would like to double-check if beans, lens and buckwheat are OK for intake?

1. What type of beans?

2. Raw lentils... fibre, vit C, K, B6, beta carotene, zinc, selenium, no arachidonic acid (A-).

3. Buckwheat is just awesome... no sugars, lots of fibre, and a complete amino profile (A+).

-Cleric

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Great! Thanx a lot Lili for the constant counseling you provide to me and the thread readers.

Also, would like to know if the Tau intake in sparkling water is really that much more efficient compared to a more convenient capsules method? I actually read somewhere that all carbonized liquids (incl. non-sugared) are rather non-recommended since they seemingly tend to trigger acne even more. Is the statement totally "out-of-bounds"?

[Off-topic] Do you actually detain a med/biochem/pharma degree of some sort? :°) Or is it just an inborn researcher that you are? Coz you tend to treat any question in a very in-depth professional way. :°) Or so it seems.

_________

Thanx a lot Cleric for your precisions. Great news! I am actually naturally very fond of all unproceeded grains, and buckwheat is my all-time fave. :))

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Great! Thanx a lot Lili for the constant counseling you provide to me and the thread readers.

Also, would like to know if the Tau intake in sparkling water is really that much more efficient compared to a more convenient capsules method? I actually read somewhere that all carbonized liquids (incl. non-sugared) are rather non-recommended since they seemingly tend to trigger acne even more. Is the statement totally "out-of-bounds"?

[Off-topic] Do you actually detain a med/biochem/pharma degree of some sort? :°) Or is it just an inborn researcher that you are? Coz you tend to treat any question in a very in-depth professional way. :°) Or so it seems.

No problem, I like helping people :)

Studies have shown that carbonation increases the absorption of several nutrients, but there's no study that says that it improves taurine absorption specifically, that I know of, but theoretically it should. It's an untested theory.

I don't know why carbonation on it's own would make acne worse. I think people assume that carbonation is bad because it's always consumed as either 1) soda, or 2) alcohol, both of which many people have bad acne experiences with. I think it's criminalization by association. I don't think carbonation makes acne worse on it own. It's possible I'm wrong though, so if there's some information I don't have, by all means, let me know. I certainly don't want to be recommending something that would make people's acne worse!

I have no degrees whatsoever, I am just an info addict, lol. I also realize that being the author of this thread which has really taken off, puts me in a position of responsibility and I don't take that lightly. I know from 13 years of personal experience how horrible it is to have acne, and I know that people are desperately looking for a solution. When they decide to try something new as a treatment, they are putting their trust and faith in that person's theory and research. Knowing this, I try to make sure my sources of information are very reliable and solid.

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Lili,

As you know, taurine has worked great for me so far; however, I've experimented with the doses every week, and noticed that 1,500 mg doses, 2x per day for a one week period, caused some gastro-intestinal upset. Since then, I've split them into 1,000 mg doses, 3x per day, and it doesn't seem to be troubling my stomach at all.

What's the idea behind this? How do bodybuilders avoid this problem when they often take 5 to 10x the standard dosage?

-Cleric

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Lili,

As you know, taurine has worked great for me so far; however, I've experimented with the doses every week, and noticed that 1,500 mg doses, 2x per day for a one week period, caused some gastro-intestinal upset. Since then, I've split them into 1,000 mg doses, 3x per day, and it doesn't seem to be troubling my stomach at all.

What's the idea behind this? How do bodybuilders avoid this problem when they often take 5 to 10x the standard dosage?

-Cleric

I was taking 2000mg 3x a day for a while as an experiment, and I didn't notice that problem, but higher doses can cause a laxative effect in some. I really don't know how the body builders handle their higher doses (some take almost 20 grams a day! lol). I think it's a personal sensitivity thing. But either way, splitting it up does help with absorption I believe, so you're better off anyway.

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