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superMachi

For people actually considering suicide

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not always true. most suicdes leave a trail of clues a mile long. its just that most people don't really know the signs or try to pretend it isn't happening.

I think I already qualified my stance on this to a satisfactory level. I stated that [truly] suicidal people do in fact leave clues, but I also said that they rarely explicitly threaten suicide. That's the key difference.

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not always true. most suicdes leave a trail of clues a mile long. its just that most people don't really know the signs or try to pretend it isn't happening.

I think I already qualified my stance on this to a satisfactory level. I stated that [truly] suicidal people do in fact leave clues, but I also said that they rarely explicitly threaten suicide. That's the key difference.

that is a true point. tho i've seen it the other way. many "cry wolf" and then BAM something sends them over the edge for good. it ramps up over the years. you can never anticipate the snapping point. which is why its SUCH a delicate issue.

however you're correct, many times its subtle clues. but not always. thats my point. not always. NEVER underestimate with this stuff. never. its too risky. thats why anyone who does it for "show" is a fucking idiot and anyone who mocks them should be considered a potentially lethal weapon.

words are weapons. never EVER forget it people. you think just because its a forum you can say stuff and go to sleep at night. THINK before you post. if its a lounge post and its all bullshit then sure go shoot off your mouth it doesn't hurt anyone but if someone says "i want to die" don't automatically assume its a joke. maybe its not a full on attempt but if you push it, it can become one. you can escalate a situation.

that was my point sorry if i didn't clarify

and VNV your statistics are correct, i just have learned over the years (and years and years of being in the mental health system) that statistics are good representations for some but definetely do not ever show the full picture.

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not always true. most suicdes leave a trail of clues a mile long. its just that most people don't really know the signs or try to pretend it isn't happening.

I think I already qualified my stance on this to a satisfactory level. I stated that [truly] suicidal people do in fact leave clues, but I also said that they rarely explicitly threaten suicide. That's the key difference.

Not true. I speak from experience as a nurse. Any verbalization of suicidal ideation, threat, intent must be taken seriously as a possible suicide. Those people go on suicide watch. That watch prevents them from actually committing suicide.

This board has also had one person threaten suicide and then actually carry it out. We do not ever want a repeat of that horrible experience. That is one reason we will lock those threads and strongly encourage the person to go get help right away. It's a huge massive burden to place on an online community and I sure do wish that those people who really think of suicide would find help nearby. It is very hard for an online community to help someone in a different country, region, location. We want to, but we just can't.

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not always true. most suicdes leave a trail of clues a mile long. its just that most people don't really know the signs or try to pretend it isn't happening.

I think I already qualified my stance on this to a satisfactory level. I stated that [truly] suicidal people do in fact leave clues, but I also said that they rarely explicitly threaten suicide. That's the key difference.

Not true. I speak from experience as a nurse. Any verbalization of suicidal ideation, threat, intent must be taken seriously as a possible suicide. Those people go on suicide watch. That watch prevents them from actually committing suicide.

This board has also had one person threaten suicide and then actually carry it out. We do not ever want a repeat of that horrible experience. That is one reason we will lock those threads and strongly encourage the person to go get help right away. It's a huge massive burden to place on an online community and I sure do wish that those people who really think of suicide would find help nearby. It is very hard for an online community to help someone in a different country, region, location. We want to, but we just can't.

Wynne i think are thoughts are on the same train. we posted basically the same thing at the same time.

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Not true. I speak from experience as a nurse. Any verbalization of suicidal ideation, threat, intent must be taken seriously as a possible suicide. Those people go on suicide watch. That watch prevents them from actually committing suicide.

I understand that medical professionals are required to take any such potential threats seriously but I still stand by my statement that, as a general rule of thumb for those of us who are not in the medical field, most genuinely suicidal people have no reason to announce their plans to kill themselves if they're really set on doing it because they don't want intervention.

This board has also had one person threaten suicide and then actually carry it out. We do not ever want a repeat of that horrible experience. That is one reason we will lock those threads and strongly encourage the person to go get help right away. It's a huge massive burden to place on an online community and I sure do wish that those people who really think of suicide would find help nearby. It is very hard for an online community to help someone in a different country, region, location. We want to, but we just can't.

I understand this, but it seems like "finding help" for a person who is verbalizing suicidal feelings means exactly what you described in the first part of your response--getting placed on suicide watch. It's hardly any wonder then that they'd hope to find help here instead where they don't have to worry about being locked away for expressing those feelings (and, in all likelihood, are not imminent threats to themselves or others).

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Not true. I speak from experience as a nurse. Any verbalization of suicidal ideation, threat, intent must be taken seriously as a possible suicide. Those people go on suicide watch. That watch prevents them from actually committing suicide.

I understand that medical professionals are required to take any such potential threats seriously but I still stand by my statement that, as a general rule of thumb for those of us who are not in the medical field, most genuinely suicidal people have no reason to announce their plans to kill themselves if they're really set on doing it because they don't want intervention.

ummmm did you read my post on the pushing over the edge thingy? it isn't so much that they may not want help its that we shouldn't assume that its fair game to flame.

ever.

REPRINT:

tho i've seen it the other way. many "cry wolf" and then BAM something sends them over the edge for good. it ramps up over the years. you can never anticipate the snapping point. which is why its SUCH a delicate issue.

however you're correct, many times its subtle clues. but not always. thats my point. not always. NEVER underestimate with this stuff. never. its too risky. thats why anyone who does it for "show" is a fucking idiot and anyone who mocks them should be considered a potentially lethal weapon.

words are weapons. never EVER forget it people. you think just because its a forum you can say stuff and go to sleep at night. THINK before you post. if its a lounge post and its all bullshit then sure go shoot off your mouth it doesn't hurt anyone but if someone says "i want to die" don't automatically assume its a joke. maybe its not a full on attempt but if you push it, it can become one. you can escalate a situation.

that was my point sorry if i didn't clarify

and VNV your statistics are correct, i just have learned over the years (and years and years of being in the mental health system) that statistics are good representations for some but definetely do not ever show the full picture

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vnv, you go ahead and think as you wish. I'll go ahead and think as I know. From experience.

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ummmm did you read my post on the pushing over the edge thingy? it isn't so much that they may not want help its that we shouldn't assume that its fair game to flame.

ever.

Right, I never said anywhere that it's fair game to flame them.

vnv, you go ahead and think as you wish. I'll go ahead and think as I know. From experience.

I didn't even say anything contrary to what you posted. You said that people who express suicidal intent are placed on suicide watch and you said that topics threatening suicide here are locked. I didn't argue against either of these points.

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ummmm did you read my post on the pushing over the edge thingy? it isn't so much that they may not want help its that we shouldn't assume that its fair game to flame.

ever.

Right, I never said anywhere that it's fair game to flame them.

Hi. okay. off to a bad start. i didn't say you were saying its fair game, i'm saying that i've witnessed a lot of assholes actually DO that. hence why i said it, not because you condone it but because well, hey some people are just that horrible. Its kind of like signs that say DO NOT TOUCH THE ELECTRIC FENCE. most people are smart enough not to but the sign is there because somebody did.

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...

Its kind of like signs that say DO NOT TOUCH THE ELECTRIC FENCE. most people are smart enough not to but the sign is there because somebody did.

The sign is there because somebody touched the fence before there was a sign, therefore that person was not dumb since there was no sign, lol. For people that touch the fence even after seeing the sign are the dumb ones.

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...

Its kind of like signs that say DO NOT TOUCH THE ELECTRIC FENCE. most people are smart enough not to but the sign is there because somebody did.

The sign is there because somebody touched the fence before there was a sign, therefore that person was not dumb since there was no sign, lol. For people that touch the fence even after seeing the sign are the dumb ones.

you actually beleive that? wow. i'm sorry i dont' have a response to that. i'm so sorry you have to go through life THAT ignorant. you go touching random fences protecting dangerous things now! go on! theres no sign so you can't be stupid. :rolleyes:

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If you're contemplating suicide, put it off for 10 years. The reason I say this has nothing to do with whether your life will get any better. There's simply a not insignificant chance that in 10 years, all of modern civilization will go downhill. It has to do with the fact that world oil production is going to peak soon and when it does, civilization will be in trouble for a long time until real alternatives are found. Oil is essential for everything and nothing can replace it for a very long time. So right now, you're living in the nicest, most comfortable age in all of human history and it's possible that these are the last years of it. So enjoy as much of it as you can. When it goes downhill, then you decide what to do. But not before.

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If you're contemplating suicide, put it off for 10 years. The reason I say this has nothing to do with whether your life will get any better. There's simply a not insignificant chance that in 10 years, all of modern civilization will go downhill. It has to do with the fact that world oil production is going to peak soon and when it does, civilization will be in trouble for a long time until real alternatives are found. Oil is essential for everything and nothing can replace it for a very long time. So right now, you're living in the nicest, most comfortable age in all of human history and it's possible that these are the last years of it. So enjoy as much of it as you can. When it goes downhill, then you decide what to do. But not before.

best idea i've heard all day and why the hell do all my quotes say ophelia ends? is this some sort of sick joke? i mean my user name is ophelia begins.

somebody's going to get hit by the whacking stick......

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the problem is that when you're there you cant think objectively. you cant see things that way.

its like when a clear skinned person says that acne's not such a big deal, and you're thinking yes it fucking is, if you were in my position you wouldnt say that etc etc.. its all about perception.

for some people at certain times in their lives, there is no hope, there is no beauty, and there is definitely no point. you can have people tell you that its really beautiful if you just focus a bit further out, but you cant, it looks like shit to you and thats all you can see.

one person sees the beautiful view, the other sees the dirty window.

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best idea i've heard all day and why the hell do all my quotes say ophelia ends? is this some sort of sick joke? i mean my user name is ophelia begins.

somebody's going to get hit by the whacking stick......

Haha, I started it sorry!

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why the hell do all my quotes say ophelia ends? is this some sort of sick joke? i mean my user name is ophelia begins.

somebody's going to get hit by the whacking stick......

When you can't attack the idea, you attack the person. :P

Just let it remind you that you win and they lose. ;D

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having mulled over this thread for the last day or so, i felt compelled to weigh in my thoughts. i work in a industry that deals with death all the time. if anything, suicidal tendencies are not to be dismissed off-hand and i believe the majority of the people on this board know better.

that having been said, i also do not think that a straight "get over it" approach should be taken in any suicidal setting. and believe me i have been on the giving end of that expression more times than i care to admit. i've broken down doors to save someone from jumping to their deaths, i've talked people out of killing themselves far more than i care to remember and i've witnessed enough slit wrists to make even the most hardened person think twice about chastising someone about it. to the victim, that is their all...every waking moment sent into despair caused by this reason to kill themselves.

but i am also a stickler for tough love at the right moments. a swift kick in the ass to wake them up. but all this only works if the person is in front of me. there is only so much one can do over the internet. what can possibly be done to avoid a situation like that over the internet? not many, imho. so we have to take what we read over the net with a grain of salt. we ask ourselves, "is this person serious?" and "is this person an e-attention whore?". the anonymity of the internet is a strong curtain to hide behind.

i believe that is the essence of what the OP is trying to convey. why come onto a forum and announce something like killing oneself? i liken it to the suicide clause in life insurance policies, which is almost universal in the USA. it states that no insurance can be claimed should a person decide to kill himself during the first two years of taking out a policy. the idea and rationale behind it is that if a person is going to kill themselves whilst taking out a policy and they are serious about it, they can wait two years to kill themselves then their beneficiaries can claim the death benefits. if, within those two years they kill themselves their beneficiaries get nothing. this is data that has been amassed over hundreds of years to formulate this policy.

it is intriguing to me that a person with these tendencies are willing to kill themselves at anytime...even two years into the future. that to me signals the complete intent. yet, moreso than not, within two years of waiting most of these people get professional help and avoid that situation altogether.

in retrospect, i feel that coming onto a public forum is the worst possible way to get help or announce a suicide. because of the afore mentioned anonymity, people can say anything to trigger that final lapse. it's almost like asking to get flamed and then drowning in the sorrow. i don't have the answer to fixing the problem, but neither does a forum on an acne site. does this person genuinely need someone to talk to? does this person need some guidance? are we the right people that this person should be talking to? is telling this person to seek professional help the right advice. there is much we do know and so much more we do not. we can not in good conscience tell them anything than to keep their chin up and push through all that static and fog. in essence, what more can anyone do?

the rest lies in the hand of the person trying to commit this act. it is up to them to realize that they need help. it starts within. the classic conversation i have with people who are depressed always degenerates into what i call the vicious loop. they come to me seeking help and advice. i offer them a piece of advice and they immediately defeat it with some perceived notion of why that won't work. i offer another and they determine that won't work either. so around and around we go for an hour+ with me giving out ideas and they shooting it down. after a while i tend to think if they really are seeking help or seeking company for their misery and seeking somebody to say to them "yeah you are right, nothing is going to work..." all the while thinking to themselves "see!? i was right, nothing is ever going to be right...i should just kill myself..."

negative justification is the bane of all depressed individuals...

sorry for the long post, but i had to put it out there...

Tearless

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If you're contemplating suicide, put it off for 10 years. The reason I say this has nothing to do with whether your life will get any better. There's simply a not insignificant chance that in 10 years, all of modern civilization will go downhill. It has to do with the fact that world oil production is going to peak soon and when it does, civilization will be in trouble for a long time until real alternatives are found. Oil is essential for everything and nothing can replace it for a very long time. So right now, you're living in the nicest, most comfortable age in all of human history and it's possible that these are the last years of it. So enjoy as much of it as you can. When it goes downhill, then you decide what to do. But not before.

best idea i've heard all day and why the hell do all my quotes say ophelia ends? is this some sort of sick joke? i mean my user name is ophelia begins.

somebody's going to get hit by the whacking stick......

default_user is pretty smart IMO. One of the best posts I have ever seen on this site.

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None of you have any right whatsoever to dictate how someone should feel. Someone isn't silly or inferior for considering suicide; they're extremely delicate and need support. Acne can have such a massive effect on people's lives to the extent that they can't even leave the house because their self-esteem is so low. I expect it can all get a bit too much sometimes and since it's "only acne" it would appear that sufferers are expected to just brush their feelings aside. I find it surprising that people can be so insensitive on an acne forum.

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i wanted to kill myself but it wasnt because of acne lol

but acne leads to mental worries/problems and you know what your mind can do to fuck you up lol

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i wanted to kill myself but it wasnt because of acne lol

but acne leads to mental worries/problems and you know what your mind can do to fuck you up lol

actually to elaborate i think its that you CAN'T always know what your mind can do to fuck you up and thats why people get into situations. most people don't wake up and go "gee i think i'll wake up, have some breakfast, take a shower then have a mental breakdown...sounds like a full day". yes i'm being deliberately faceteous but the point is that when your mind turns on you you often really don't get any warning.

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