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tobias

U should read this!

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So i found this in the introduce urself section written by cadaverousmob. He makes a very good point. Do u think docs n derms have ur best interest in mind when u walk into their office:

"The reason you have acne is because the world wants you to. Not the world as in you or me or your neighbor but the multinational pharmaceutical corporations (big pharma), big medica, big biotechna, big chema, etc.

"The direct cost of acne may exceed $1 billion per year in the United States." SOURCE: AHRQ, US Department of Health and Human Services

Do you think they wanna cure their $1 billion per year gold mine? Think about worldwide and how much more money acne makes them (estimated to be around $8 billion).

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but by using a little common sense and logic, one can figure out that if they completely cure acne, then they wouldn't make money. It's that simple. So they make you buy all these creams and pills that ALLEVIATE the symptoms but never tackle the root cause. They only want to suppress the symptoms and never cure it so they can continually make money, like interest on a never-ending mortgage.

What does the FDA stand for? Food AND Drug Administration. The FDA approves the food AND the drugs: Why together and not separate? Also, why do you think doctors keep saying food doesn't cause acne? You bet your ass it does. Ask the numerous people on here breaking out after drinking milk or eating pizza. Doctors say it doesn't because if they tell you the truth, then no one would buy crappy fast food since no one wants acne! Doctors make money from people being sick; Not from people being cured. Remember that. Plus, doctors are subsidized and given more money for selling particular drugs, which are approved by the FDA. Conflict of interest? You bet your ass."

If u still think all docs n derms r angels then ur a F***W**.

Edit: just to clarify, I'm emphasising the political side of this, not the food part. Food does play a role in acne, but not the entire role.

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Ive been having a lot of mcdonalds breakfasts lately and have broken out with like 5 or more spots and ive only been off tane 3 weeks, so im guessing it might be to do with that.. i dont know.

I dont want to give them up though cause im trying to put weight on cause im a bit underweight and really picky with food haha!

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I understand what your saying but the average person is basically getting screwed over several times a day from major corps in all elements of every day life.

Which is why you have to take things at face value. I don't personally think that roaccutane is the be all and end all of this condition. Prevention over cure is better in my opinion. But that takes quite a lot of self motivation to put into practice. I don't think consultants are all blood sucking pigs… if you think about it they are pretty far down the food chain when it comes to this industry.

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I understand what your saying but the average person is basically getting screwed over several times a day from major corps in all elements of every day life.

Which is why you have to take things at face value. I don't personally think that roaccutane is the be all and end all of this condition. Prevention over cure is better in my opinion. But that takes quite a lot of self motivation to put into practice. I don't think consultants are all blood sucking pigs… if you think about it they are pretty far down the food chain when it comes to this industry.

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I tried one of the food fast things on here before where you order a crazy amount of vitamins and supplements and then just eat apples for so many days to flush your system out and it made me really ill because im anaemic, i was pale as a ghost, sweating and felt weak and like i was going to faint.. i dont know if thats supposed to happen but im guessing not so i stopped it.

I wouldnt mind eating healthily ALL the time if i wasnt so thin! I need the calories and eating healthy stuff all the time makes me feel like im loosing weight.

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U don't miss ur water till the well runs dry.

Translation-U keep ur customers as long as u can to keep food on ur table and shelter over ur head.

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Yeah my last derm was deffinately squeezing me for money... Made me buy a bunch of Obagi stuff, and make me do these UV flash treatments and peels. They never really worked, I just ended up a lot redder in the face when I walked out than when I walked in. I requested Accutane multiple times, but was denied each time, assured that this new treatment was all that I needed. Then I went to my new Dermatologist and she was like "Yeah you're a perfect canidate for accutane". Now I'm stuck taking tane my fresman year of college :wacko: not to mention out all the money I wasted...

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Its the same when you see a schrink - theres probably nothing wrong with you but they tell you that there is so that you buy medicine and need to see them more often.

There would be some dodgey derms who string you out for ages before they will give you acctuane. I went to some bitch before I changed derms and she kept on giving me this BS stuff for ages, which made my skin worse, and cost me heaps of $, all the while telling me accutane was the devil. If i had of gone to the derm im seeing now straight away this hell would be over.

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The main point I'm emphasising, particularly to alotta tha moderaters here, is that derms aren't ur holy saviour, they don't always have ur best interest in mind, and that u r an aspect of their income they don't want to lose. I've had acne 4 years now and I've finally learnt the things I wish I knew all along about treating it, medications, and the propaganda surrounding the disease.

Don't get me wrong, I think accutane is the best there is, aside from mayb what cadaverousmob went on to say about eating completely organic and changing his lifestyle, but thats just too diffucult, too expensive at this point in time for me to b willing to try. I myself am on accutane for my 2nd time.

It just REALLY bugs me when I see ppl post a new topic asking 4 advice coz they think their getting stuffed around by the derm/doc, and they obviously are, and then the moderators who have been members for ump-teen years and made thousands of posts, who can obviously be very impressionable on these ppl who haven't yet learnt the propaganda surrounding acne treatment, say

"No no, ur derm wldn't stuff u around, their only doing whats best for you, accutane's a really dangerous drug and ppl shld avoid it as long as they can"

CUT IT OUT!

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This happens to be my first post here... in fact, I just registered so I can get my own 2 cents in here, so bear with me.

I'm a 29 year old male and I've been dealing with acne my whole life. I also happen to be on Accutane myself (in my last month of treatment) (and yes, it's working wonderfully.) so I found it interesting to see what other people on this board are experiencing with side-effects and results as well.

But that aside, I'm also a board-certified, practicing internist in eastern Pennsylvania. And while I don't write isotreitoin at all for myself or patients (with the iPledge nonsense, it was easier for me to just see a colleague with more experience) I do treat a lot of other "big gold-mine" diseases, so I wanted to just comment on a few things here.

1) I doubt that the $1 billion industry you're quoting is trade in FDA-approved pharmaceuticals. Any idiot can get a late night infomercial for skin cream, the same way they can for "fat-burners" and "Super-Amazing Colon Blow Weight Loss Pill To the Stars". Like obesity, acne has more than its fair share of quacks and hucksters out there that are willing to take your money. And yes, I'm sorry to say some of these guys are doctors.

2) I've heard the whole "doctors want to keep you sick so they can make BMW payments" theory a million times over. We don't. Honest. If there was a pill that we could prescribe to cure, say, hypertension completely and irrevocably, we would be prescribing it. And the drug company would be making as much of it as possible, since a drug that is not only proven effective for a condition but is also chemically unique to its competitors will net a company billions of dollars over the course of the patent. A quick example is Plavix, which is a unique antiplatlet that made me wish I bought stock in Bristol-Myers-Squibb 10 years ago.

As for the docs, we don't want to keep people sick any more than you want to be sick. In fact, with an HMO, we get a monthly fee from your insurance company when you designate one of us as your primary care provider, and that fee doesn't change if you don't have an appointment the whole year or you come 10 times a month. (And trust me, that fee is low. A young patient may be $5-$20/month depending on the insurance) In fact, if you call my office on a daily basis with questions, we give you answers free of charge. Try to find a lawyer or a tech support hotline that can claim the same.

3) The decision as to what drug to treat a patient with isn't always our decision, especially in the US. For brand names, we have to go by the insurance company's formulary. And with the hundreds of variations of hundreds of companies, we usually don't know what will be paid for until you get the pharmacy and we get a phone call. (Which, as I mentioned above, we answer for free.) And as for being subsidized by the pharmaceutical companies to write specific meds over others... maybe they're paying these subsidies to us entirely in free pens, since that's all I've ever recieved from them.

4) (and this is my own personal rant after a long day) I'm sorry if you don't think your dermatologist or medical professional isn't taking your best interests to heart. Most of try to do the best we can, but some people are never going to be satisfied with the care no matter far you bend backwards. Sometimes it helps to educate yourself using tools like this board and the internet in general. Being able to ask us specific questions in the short time we have you in the exam room makes the whole patient-doctor process a lot smoother for everyone. BUT, at the same time, don't assume that glancing through a few webpages is a substitute for a medical degree. After 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 4 sets of board exams, it's sometimes a problem for us to explain simply the reasons why we make the medical decisions we do to someone that hasn't been through the educational process. You certainly have a right to know what we're doing and why, but sometimes it irks me to deal with the mistrust the general population has suddenly assumed towards doctors. In the same way you wouldn't jump into the cockpit of a commercial jet and start telling the pilot how to fly, sometimes you just have to sit back, trust us, let us do our jobs, and realize that the end results aren't always going to be exactly what you expect them to be. After all, we're human beings too, ya know.

And that's all I had to say.... thanks for the vent!

The main point I'm emphasising, particularly to alotta tha moderaters here, is that derms aren't ur holy saviour, they don't always have ur best interest in mind, and that u r an aspect of their income they don't want to lose. I've had acne 4 years now and I've finally learnt the things I wish I knew all along about treating it, medications, and the propaganda surrounding the disease.

Don't get me wrong, I think accutane is the best there is, aside from mayb what cadaverousmob went on to say about eating completely organic and changing his lifestyle, but thats just too diffucult, too expensive at this point in time for me to b willing to try. I myself am on accutane for my 2nd time.

It just REALLY bugs me when I see ppl post a new topic asking 4 advice coz they think their getting stuffed around by the derm/doc, and they obviously are, and then the moderators who have been members for ump-teen years and made thousands of posts, who can obviously be very impressionable on these ppl who haven't yet learnt the propaganda surrounding acne treatment, say

"No no, ur derm wldn't stuff u around, their only doing whats best for you, accutane's a really dangerous drug and ppl shld avoid it as long as they can"

CUT IT OUT!

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why would the doctors want to do that? they should want to help people, that way they can get more patients. people ask about doctors, and if a doctor has a reputation for not ever helping/curing, then people aren't going to want to go to them. how would that benefit them? duh.

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doctors are trained to understand the disease and treat it with the available tools set up as a business.

They are interested in helping you but sometimes they give advice based on there own bias, making money. Everyone wants to maximize their gains regardless of someone elses loss if they can get away with it, everyone would LOVE a monopoly because its so god damn profitable. This is why they have a hierarchy of drugs and typically can drag out the treatment process if they are that evil, but they CAN do it and the incentive to do it does exist. So you could either be lucky and get one with a concious (they do exist) or you could get the oppressor(the business savvy).

My prediction is that the older the derm the more likely to be an oppressor because they will have had time to understand their advantages over you, while the younger ones probably have this desire to help people still, the young and idealistic types.

there may be more money in jobs for scientists offered by pharmaceutical companies, then there is funding for research for the exact cause.

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This happens to be my first post here... in fact, I just registered so I can get my own 2 cents in here, so bear with me.

I'm a 29 year old male and I've been dealing with acne my whole life. I also happen to be on Accutane myself (in my last month of treatment) (and yes, it's working wonderfully.) so I found it interesting to see what other people on this board are experiencing with side-effects and results as well.

But that aside, I'm also a board-certified, practicing internist in eastern Pennsylvania. And while I don't write isotreitoin at all for myself or patients (with the iPledge nonsense, it was easier for me to just see a colleague with more experience) I do treat a lot of other "big gold-mine" diseases, so I wanted to just comment on a few things here.

1) I doubt that the $1 billion industry you're quoting is trade in FDA-approved pharmaceuticals. Any idiot can get a late night infomercial for skin cream, the same way they can for "fat-burners" and "Super-Amazing Colon Blow Weight Loss Pill To the Stars". Like obesity, acne has more than its fair share of quacks and hucksters out there that are willing to take your money. And yes, I'm sorry to say some of these guys are doctors.

2) I've heard the whole "doctors want to keep you sick so they can make BMW payments" theory a million times over. We don't. Honest. If there was a pill that we could prescribe to cure, say, hypertension completely and irrevocably, we would be prescribing it. And the drug company would be making as much of it as possible, since a drug that is not only proven effective for a condition but is also chemically unique to its competitors will net a company billions of dollars over the course of the patent. A quick example is Plavix, which is a unique antiplatlet that made me wish I bought stock in Bristol-Myers-Squibb 10 years ago.

As for the docs, we don't want to keep people sick any more than you want to be sick. In fact, with an HMO, we get a monthly fee from your insurance company when you designate one of us as your primary care provider, and that fee doesn't change if you don't have an appointment the whole year or you come 10 times a month. (And trust me, that fee is low. A young patient may be $5-$20/month depending on the insurance) In fact, if you call my office on a daily basis with questions, we give you answers free of charge. Try to find a lawyer or a tech support hotline that can claim the same.

3) The decision as to what drug to treat a patient with isn't always our decision, especially in the US. For brand names, we have to go by the insurance company's formulary. And with the hundreds of variations of hundreds of companies, we usually don't know what will be paid for until you get the pharmacy and we get a phone call. (Which, as I mentioned above, we answer for free.) And as for being subsidized by the pharmaceutical companies to write specific meds over others... maybe they're paying these subsidies to us entirely in free pens, since that's all I've ever recieved from them.

4) (and this is my own personal rant after a long day) I'm sorry if you don't think your dermatologist or medical professional isn't taking your best interests to heart. Most of try to do the best we can, but some people are never going to be satisfied with the care no matter far you bend backwards. Sometimes it helps to educate yourself using tools like this board and the internet in general. Being able to ask us specific questions in the short time we have you in the exam room makes the whole patient-doctor process a lot smoother for everyone. BUT, at the same time, don't assume that glancing through a few webpages is a substitute for a medical degree. After 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 4 sets of board exams, it's sometimes a problem for us to explain simply the reasons why we make the medical decisions we do to someone that hasn't been through the educational process. You certainly have a right to know what we're doing and why, but sometimes it irks me to deal with the mistrust the general population has suddenly assumed towards doctors. In the same way you wouldn't jump into the cockpit of a commercial jet and start telling the pilot how to fly, sometimes you just have to sit back, trust us, let us do our jobs, and realize that the end results aren't always going to be exactly what you expect them to be. After all, we're human beings too, ya know.

And that's all I had to say.... thanks for the vent!

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After 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 4 sets of board exams, it's sometimes a problem for us to explain simply the reasons why we make the medical decisions we do to someone that hasn't been through the educational process.

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If a doc wasn't helping me, I'd go to another doc. It's not like there's only one out there and they can continue to screw you over and you'd just have no recourse... When I went to ask for Accutane, I told them that was what I wanted and I wanted nothing else. They cautioned me about the IB, told me to start right away on anti-biotics, in that first month while waiting for 'tane initial test results to come back. I was skeptical based on what I'd heard regarding how some derms do not want to prescribe it, so I said I just wanted the 'tane and nothing else. If they didn't give it to me, the next month I would have been at another derm's office. And I live in a small town! So no, I do not buy the conspiracy theory.

These people may be knowledgeable, but they are also not the only source of knowledge. We do have a responsibility to know how to research and use those tools to obtain the best results.

tobias, you're also kinda contradicting yourself where Accutane happens to be your champion drug the derms won't tell you about. I bet all the skin care products I've used put together have not cost as much as Accutane. To date, I've paid $550 out of pocket, insurance has paid $200 for office visits and tests, drug cost has been $360 x 5 = $1,800 and I still have one month left! This is while taking Amnesteem, not Accutane, so I wonder how much the non-generic version costs. You said pottedmeat was talking out his arse, but this seems a lot like the Plavix wonder drug situation he mentioned. If making money for the medical and Pharmaceutical professions is the goal, shouldn't they be prescribing Accutane more?

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tobias, you're also kinda contradicting yourself where Accutane happens to be your champion drug the derms won't tell you about. I bet all the skin care products I've used put together have not cost as much as Accutane. To date, I've paid $550 out of pocket, insurance has paid $200 for office visits and tests, drug cost has been $360 x 5 = $1,800 and I still have one month left! This is while taking Amnesteem, not Accutane, so I wonder how much the non-generic version costs. You said pottedmeat was talking out his arse, but this seems a lot like the Plavix wonder drug situation he mentioned. If making money for the medical and Pharmaceutical professions is the goal, shouldn't they be prescribing Accutane more?

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Watch sicko.

Though undoubtedly biased, it raises and answer many questions asked in this topic. (Mostly going through the american system though.)

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This happens to be my first post here... in fact, I just registered so I can get my own 2 cents in here, so bear with me.

I'm a 29 year old male and I've been dealing with acne my whole life. I also happen to be on Accutane myself (in my last month of treatment) (and yes, it's working wonderfully.) so I found it interesting to see what other people on this board are experiencing with side-effects and results as well.

But that aside, I'm also a board-certified, practicing internist in eastern Pennsylvania. And while I don't write isotreitoin at all for myself or patients (with the iPledge nonsense, it was easier for me to just see a colleague with more experience) I do treat a lot of other "big gold-mine" diseases, so I wanted to just comment on a few things here.

1) I doubt that the $1 billion industry you're quoting is trade in FDA-approved pharmaceuticals. Any idiot can get a late night infomercial for skin cream, the same way they can for "fat-burners" and "Super-Amazing Colon Blow Weight Loss Pill To the Stars". Like obesity, acne has more than its fair share of quacks and hucksters out there that are willing to take your money. And yes, I'm sorry to say some of these guys are doctors.

2) I've heard the whole "doctors want to keep you sick so they can make BMW payments" theory a million times over. We don't. Honest. If there was a pill that we could prescribe to cure, say, hypertension completely and irrevocably, we would be prescribing it. And the drug company would be making as much of it as possible, since a drug that is not only proven effective for a condition but is also chemically unique to its competitors will net a company billions of dollars over the course of the patent. A quick example is Plavix, which is a unique antiplatlet that made me wish I bought stock in Bristol-Myers-Squibb 10 years ago.

As for the docs, we don't want to keep people sick any more than you want to be sick. In fact, with an HMO, we get a monthly fee from your insurance company when you designate one of us as your primary care provider, and that fee doesn't change if you don't have an appointment the whole year or you come 10 times a month. (And trust me, that fee is low. A young patient may be $5-$20/month depending on the insurance) In fact, if you call my office on a daily basis with questions, we give you answers free of charge. Try to find a lawyer or a tech support hotline that can claim the same.

3) The decision as to what drug to treat a patient with isn't always our decision, especially in the US. For brand names, we have to go by the insurance company's formulary. And with the hundreds of variations of hundreds of companies, we usually don't know what will be paid for until you get the pharmacy and we get a phone call. (Which, as I mentioned above, we answer for free.) And as for being subsidized by the pharmaceutical companies to write specific meds over others... maybe they're paying these subsidies to us entirely in free pens, since that's all I've ever recieved from them.

4) (and this is my own personal rant after a long day) I'm sorry if you don't think your dermatologist or medical professional isn't taking your best interests to heart. Most of try to do the best we can, but some people are never going to be satisfied with the care no matter far you bend backwards. Sometimes it helps to educate yourself using tools like this board and the internet in general. Being able to ask us specific questions in the short time we have you in the exam room makes the whole patient-doctor process a lot smoother for everyone. BUT, at the same time, don't assume that glancing through a few webpages is a substitute for a medical degree. After 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, 3 years of residency, and 4 sets of board exams, it's sometimes a problem for us to explain simply the reasons why we make the medical decisions we do to someone that hasn't been through the educational process. You certainly have a right to know what we're doing and why, but sometimes it irks me to deal with the mistrust the general population has suddenly assumed towards doctors. In the same way you wouldn't jump into the cockpit of a commercial jet and start telling the pilot how to fly, sometimes you just have to sit back, trust us, let us do our jobs, and realize that the end results aren't always going to be exactly what you expect them to be. After all, we're human beings too, ya know.

And that's all I had to say.... thanks for the vent!

The main point I'm emphasising, particularly to alotta tha moderaters here, is that derms aren't ur holy saviour, they don't always have ur best interest in mind, and that u r an aspect of their income they don't want to lose. I've had acne 4 years now and I've finally learnt the things I wish I knew all along about treating it, medications, and the propaganda surrounding the disease.

Don't get me wrong, I think accutane is the best there is, aside from mayb what cadaverousmob went on to say about eating completely organic and changing his lifestyle, but thats just too diffucult, too expensive at this point in time for me to b willing to try. I myself am on accutane for my 2nd time.

It just REALLY bugs me when I see ppl post a new topic asking 4 advice coz they think their getting stuffed around by the derm/doc, and they obviously are, and then the moderators who have been members for ump-teen years and made thousands of posts, who can obviously be very impressionable on these ppl who haven't yet learnt the propaganda surrounding acne treatment, say

"No no, ur derm wldn't stuff u around, their only doing whats best for you, accutane's a really dangerous drug and ppl shld avoid it as long as they can"

CUT IT OUT!

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I don't have time to read about conspiracy theories but I get the point.

To all of you who think your doctor is squeezing you for money: Find another doctor!

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