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Does anyone here happen to know anything about silicones and their effect on skin? I think they might aggravate acne, so I'm trying to avoid them in hair products especially, but it's hard (they're everywhere!!!). Are silicones actually a problem or am I just being silly?

Here is a post by "scientists" advocating that foundations containing silicone are okay to use on acne-prone skin, but I'm still not entirely sure, and their post isn't elaborate enough. :doh:

What do you guys think? Does it depend on the type of silicone or do they all have equal pore-clogging abilities?

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Hi! I was looking for a post by LabGirl about that very thing for you, and I just can't find it. Anyway, she said that most silicones are not bad for the skin; on the contrary, they help provide a barrier over the skin (that still lets the skin breathe) and that barrier helps prevent water evaporation. So they act almost as a breathable sealant. Their structure is also too large to clog the pores. So they are safe to use. :) Not cyclomethicones, though, I read that in another of her posts. Er, I think. Oh, here's one post I found that she wrote about silicones. It is not the one I was thinking of that is more recent, though.

...

Silicones are not completely occlusive. Higher molecular weight dimethicones are slightly occlusive, but do not coat the skin completely. They do let air through. And they can decrease trans epidermal water loss and actually prtect the skin when the barrier is compramised. Volitle dimethicones do not have much known toxicity either (none had been actually proven....evne for trisiloxane). Dimethicone Copolyol is a great silicone emulsifier and is a huge molecule....way too big to penetrate the skin, and again it's not very occlusive.

Cyclomethicones are another story. They can be small and volitle, and toxic. D4 cyclomethincone (4 member ring) had known toxicity and is banned for use in cosmetics. I do not use it.....but I used to....and I used to breathe in the vapors all the time. I used to clean equipment with it and make batches with it.....then it was banned and we can't uase it anymore.....even for cleaning.......We do used D5, D6 and D7 cyclo's but I think D5 (cyclopentasiloxane) may be banned soon (at least in California anyway). They are not nearly as volitle as D4. Cyclomethicones are starting to get a bad rap.....and I'm not sure how much of it is just BP consumer paranoia tactics or if it's actually legit this time........we are looking for alternatives to cyclomethicones if they become banned......like light esters that have a similar feel to D5 cyclomethicone......

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Hi! I was looking for a post by LabGirl about that very thing for you, and I just can't find it. Anyway, she said that most silicones are not bad for the skin; on the contrary, they help provide a barrier over the skin (that still lets the skin breathe) and that barrier helps prevent water evaporation. So they act almost as a breathable sealant. Their structure is also too large to clog the pores. So they are safe to use. :) Not cyclomethicones, though, I read that in another of her posts. Er, I think. Oh, here's one post I found that she wrote about silicones. It is not the one I was thinking of that is more recent, though.

...

Silicones are not completely occlusive. Higher molecular weight dimethicones are slightly occlusive, but do not coat the skin completely. They do let air through. And they can decrease trans epidermal water loss and actually prtect the skin when the barrier is compramised. Volitle dimethicones do not have much known toxicity either (none had been actually proven....evne for trisiloxane). Dimethicone Copolyol is a great silicone emulsifier and is a huge molecule....way too big to penetrate the skin, and again it's not very occlusive.

Cyclomethicones are another story. They can be small and volitle, and toxic. D4 cyclomethincone (4 member ring) had known toxicity and is banned for use in cosmetics. I do not use it.....but I used to....and I used to breathe in the vapors all the time. I used to clean equipment with it and make batches with it.....then it was banned and we can't uase it anymore.....even for cleaning.......We do used D5, D6 and D7 cyclo's but I think D5 (cyclopentasiloxane) may be banned soon (at least in California anyway). They are not nearly as volitle as D4. Cyclomethicones are starting to get a bad rap.....and I'm not sure how much of it is just from consumer paranoia tactics or if it's actually legit this time........we are looking for alternatives to cyclomethicones if they become banned......like light esters that have a similar feel to D5 cyclomethicone......

She knows her stuff and everything she writes is pretty darn fascinating. :)

Thanks, Wynne.......here is the post you couldn't find......

Some consumers think silicones are bad beacuse they aren't "natural." However On Earth, silicon (which is part of the backbone of silicones) is the second most abundant element (after oxygen) in the crust....it's 25.7% of the Earth's crust. The backbone of a silicone looks like this (Si-O-Si-O-Si-O-...)....contaning silicon and oxygen......

Siliocnes are pretty inert when it comes to the skin. See they aren't organic (not like USDA organic.....but like o-chem orgainc), so the microflora of the skin (inclusing p. acnes) aren't really interested in chowing down on them.......high molecular weight dimethicones and silicone elastomeres form films over the skin which prevent transepidermal water loss and also smooth over the apperence of acne scars, fine lines and large pores......they are too big to clog pores....they just sit on the surface of the skin making a slightly occlusive film.......lower molecular weight dimethicones provide emmoliency....cyclomethicnes, and very low weight dimethicones are volitle and just evaporate......

Organo-modified silicones like phenyl trimethicone provide smoothness and sheen (this may be in your makeup to give dewy finish and increase playtime).

Silicone polyethers like PEG/PPG-18/18 Dimethicone and other dimethicone copolyols are able to emulsify water inside a silicone medium.....

It's pretty hard to avoid them if you wear liquid makeup....

What I said about the D5 cyclomethicone being banned may actually happen within the next few years. It isn't because it's irritating to the skin or toxic to humans.......it's more because of the environment....it may be bioaccumlative.....

So we are looking for a replacment, but it's not as easy as switching D4 for D5.....D6 has different chemistry and it's not as easy to disperse things in it, and it's not quite as good of a solvent........so esters may be coming back........

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Yep, that's the one! I knew it went into greater detail that was even more applicable to makeup finishes, and that's the one that made me think of trying to find a moisturizer with silicones in it.

I may just stick with a primer that has silicones in it, as it really did make a magnificent difference for my own skin when I had makeup over the primer. Although I may just use plaster to spackle my scars and then makeup the plaster. :P Just kidding.

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You know I forgot to mention the effect they have on the hair. They coat the cuticle, smoothing it over, and by doing this it prevents frizz and give the hair a smooth appearence. If it weren't for the silicones in my shampoo, conditioner, and Biosilk, my curly hair would be a big poofy fro.....I've tried to use silicone free products once before (a stylist conviced me to buy this stupid line of natural shampoos and conditioners for curly hair, claiming my beloved Pantene was formulated by Satan (okay not really, but stylists hate Pantene). I was manic so I was easily convinced........

Well.....I used it an my hair was nasty and frizzy and felt like straw......

So I went back to my evil silicone-laden Pantene products and my beloved Biosilk (or my own concoction I make in my lab when I'm being cheap)...

I've never had acne problems from my hair products. My acne was worst on my face and chest.....not the back of my neck or my upper back which comes in contact with the products when I rinse. I am very careful to not get my shampoo and conditioner near my face.....since I don't know if the other ingredients could be problematic.....

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Yes! I love Pantene's Restorative Hair serum. I bet it has silicones in it. It makes my hair non frizzy and so shiny. Why do stylists hate Pantene? Most I've been to really denigrate it.

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Yes! I love Pantene's Restorative Hair serum. I bet it has silicones in it. It makes my hair non frizzy and so shiny. Why do stylists hate Pantene? Most I've been to really denigrate it.

Probably because it works 1000x better then the stuff they sell, so they tell people it will destroy their hair or make their hair fall out. I love how my stylist complemets me on my perfect spiral curls, and how smooth my hair looks.....then she asks what I do to my hair and what I use on it. She asks if I use a curling iron.....I don't. She asks what products I use and I tell her Pantene and Biosilk. She said she heard Pantene is horrible for the hair.

I told her to keep an eye on my hair and let me know if it's falling out or breaking....

She says my hair is really healthy considering it's long and highlighted, and that whoever told her Pantene was bad for the hair was wrong. But she says she has to rccomend products that they sell in the salon.....

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Thanks a bunch, ladies, for debunking the myth that all silicones are evil!

I agree with the silicones' ability to tame frizz. It's like magic!! I thought silicones were bad (I kept getting break-outs on my scalp for some reason, so I blamed it on them, aware of their notorious reputation and all) so I tried to avoid anything with them, but that just made my hair more unmanageable--quite the opposite effect I was going for!

And yeah, a lot of stylists speak lowly of Pantene because they're trying to sabotage them so they can sell the more expensive products they have in the salon they work for. That's evil. But sometimes the stylists don't know any better...

Another question: must all silicones end with "-cone" or can they end with "-ane" as well? Are they related? I've noticed that the Tresemme Smooth No Frizz Shrine spray is supposed to be a silicone spray, but I could not locate any ingredients with the suffix "-cone." And the second two ingredients have the prefix "cyclo-." Should I avoid this product then? Now I'm leery of anything "cyclo-!" I was checking out all my hair products and some of the best ones have "cyclo-" in the ingredients label. My Rusk Deep Shine spray has cyclomethicone listed as the first ingredient. It must be really concentrated. (And that's why it makes hair so... soft!) :/

Another thing: will using too many products containing silicone cause nasty build-up on the hair and scalp? I guess it's inevitable, but a good deep-cleansing shampoo will take care of that, right?

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Yes! I love Pantene's Restorative Hair serum. I bet it has silicones in it. It makes my hair non frizzy and so shiny. Why do stylists hate Pantene? Most I've been to really denigrate it.

Probably because it works 1000x better then the stuff they sell, so they tell people it will destroy their hair or make their hair fall out. I love how my stylist complemets me on my perfect spiral curls, and how smooth my hair looks.....then she asks what I do to my hair and what I use on it. She asks if I use a curling iron.....I don't. She asks what products I use and I tell her Pantene and Biosilk. She said she heard Pantene is horrible for the hair.

I told her to keep an eye on my hair and let me know if it's falling out or breaking....

She says my hair is really healthy considering it's long and highlighted, and that whoever told her Pantene was bad for the hair was wrong. But she says she has to rccomend products that they sell in the salon.....

This is one of those "your mileage may vary" things, I think. When I used Pantene (don't remember which formula), it left my hair dry and dull-looking.

Biolage has a silicone-based no-hold spray (Shine Renewal, or something like that) that's nice. Just a couple of light sprays and my hair looks and behaves much better. I did have to show my husband how to use it, though, after I walked past the bathroom one day to see him spraying it on his hair: SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ "Whoa there, honey! You've got enough silicone there to make a pair of breast implants!" :lol:

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Biolage has a silicone-based no-hold spray (Shine Renewal, or something like that) that's nice. Just a couple of light sprays and my hair looks and behaves much better. I did have to show my husband how to use it, though, after I walked past the bathroom one day to see him spraying it on his hair: SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ SPRITZ "Whoa there, honey! You've got enough silicone there to make a pair of breast implants!" :lol:

:lol: I can actually imagine a guy doing that.

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Thanks a bunch, ladies, for debunking the myth that all silicones are evil!

I agree with the silicones' ability to tame frizz. It's like magic!! I thought silicones were bad (I kept getting break-outs on my scalp for some reason, so I blamed it on them, aware of their notorious reputation and all) so I tried to avoid anything with them, but that just made my hair more unmanageable--quite the opposite effect I was going for!

And yeah, a lot of stylists speak lowly of Pantene because they're trying to sabotage them so they can sell the more expensive products they have in the salon they work for. That's evil. But sometimes the stylists don't know any better...

Another question: must all silicones end with "-cone" or can they end with "-ane" as well? Are they related? I've noticed that the Tresemme Smooth No Frizz Shrine spray is supposed to be a silicone spray, but I could not locate any ingredients with the suffix "-cone." And the second two ingredients have the prefix "cyclo-." Should I avoid this product then? Now I'm leery of anything "cyclo-!" I was checking out all my hair products and some of the best ones have "cyclo-" in the ingredients label. My Rusk Deep Shine spray has cyclomethicone listed as the first ingredient. It must be really concentrated. (And that's why it makes hair so... soft!) :/

Another thing: will using too many products containing silicone cause nasty build-up on the hair and scalp? I guess it's inevitable, but a good deep-cleansing shampoo will take care of that, right?

Don't worry about cyclopentasiloxane (D5) or cyslohexasiloxane (D6) (yes they can also end with -ane)........

Cyclomethicones, with the exception of D4 cyclomethicone, are totally safe and no they aren't comedogenic at all, they are actually volitle and just evaporate. The reason they may be under suspicion is more from an environmental standpoint. They may (not I say may.....this may blow over soon) be bioaccumlative. this doesn't mean every time you put liquid makeuo in or use a shine spray that you are polluting the environment.....it's more about how these raw materials are disposed of.........

The cyclomethicnes in hair products are more of a volitle carrier for heavier dimethicones (which are great for smoothing the hair and preventing frizz).

Actually another good thing about silicones (especially high molecular weight dimethicones) is that they sort of heat proof the hair. Silicones are stable at high temperatures.......think about silicone bakeware or parchment paper........thay are stable even in 500 degree ovens........

I have been using silicone products on my hair for years. Any decent shampoo will wash them out.....no they don't lead to build up. I've never needed to use a clarifying shampoo.....in fact I use the Pantene Daily Moisture Renewal shampoo......

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Okay, one more kind of irrelevent question (I'm just bursting with questions lately...): Since chlorofluorocarbons are bad for the environment, does that mean hydrofluorocarbons are, too? I saw hydroflurocarbon 152A listed as an ingredient in one aerosol hairspray and I was just kinda concerned.

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Okay, one more kind of irrelevent question (I'm just bursting with questions lately...): Since chlorofluorocarbons are bad for the environment, does that mean hydrofluorocarbons are, too? I saw hydroflurocarbon 152A listed as an ingredient in one aerosol hairspray and I was just kinda concerned.

Hydrofluorocarbons (HFCs), contain no chlorine. They are composed only of carbon, hydrogen, and fluorine. They have a much lower global warming potential than HCFCs and CFC's, and no known effects at all on the ozone layer

It's believed that only compounds containing chlorine and bromine are thought to harm the ozone layer. HFC's and perflurocarbons do have activity in the entirely different realm of greenhouse gases, that don't destroy ozone, but they do cause global warming. HFC's are a target of Kyoto Protocol to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.......

So they aren't nearly as bad as CFC's, but they aren't great for the global warming situation either (well neither is the amount of carbon dioxide that is generated by our modern lifestyle).....

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I've read in many articles that Pantene contains an methylisothiazoline that causes nerve cell damage leading to alzheimers, so were they not true?

http://www.newstarget.com/003210.html

Which products contain this chemical compound MIT? Head and Shoulders, Suave, Clairol and Pantene Hair Conditioner all contain this ingredient. Researchers are concerned that exposure to this chemical by pregnant women could put their fetus at risk for abnormal brain development. In other people, exposure could also be a factor in the development of Alzheimer's disease and other nervous system disorders.

among many other articles

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