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hhughes

They Are Here! 415nm EnLux LED's Hooray!

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So I got them today! I now have two ultra powerful 415nm EnLux LED lamps. Along with a red one as well.

I will be starting treatment today and will post daily updates to this thread.

For complete specs... please see my original post here... http://www.acne.org/messageboard/As-promis...ps-t144254.html

All the info in the original post is the same as now, except disregard all info about the 470nm... I have 415nm's now.

I also have a complete spectral analysis of the wavelength which I will post soon. This will include all sorts of cool readings that I am sure will impress! :dance:

Spectral Analysis:

Can't post it b/c the stupid message board wont let me!

Day 1:

I am having some trouble putting the graph up here... I tried to add the image using the image button above but it wont work, I tried html as well but that doesn't work either. Anybody know how to add the pic?

As for day one review... these lights are BRIGHT. you need to wear goggles or cover your eyes, otherwise you'll get a headache. Really no different in that respect from a Lumenis machine in a derm's office or medispa.

Day 2:

Decided to do another 15min session today. I have a cool little set up now with the 2 blue lights flanking the red... so me face is basically bathed in super bright light. Believe it or not... my acne has already started to subside... but this is no different than my experience with the Lumenis Clear Light Machine.

I'll try to post pictures soon, but I only have cell phone camera which will look like crap. I'll see what I can come up with.

Day 3:

OFF

Day 4:

Another 15 min session - Im not as bumpy anymore, but not 100% clear yet (id say about 40-50%)... but I do have red spots where the acne used to be. No new pimples so far, which is great. Hopefully it stays that way. I would normally get at least one new pimple every day... but i haven't for the past 3 days or so.

I also want to emphasize how powerful these lights are... i dont know what a beauty skin looks like in person or an acnelamp... but these lights make your whole entire room bright. Looking into them directly is like how you feel when looking directly into the sun. With goggles the 415nm is not too bad... but the red light... even with goggles is blinding.

I keep my eyes closed even with goggles on and i can still see light.

Day 5:

OFF

Day 6:

Another 15min session. I am experiencing some pretty promising clearing now. Some of my redness has subsided and the bumps have calmed down... but they are still there. I did get two new pimples yesterday but they were very unimpressive and they are gone today. I'm still clearing which is a good sign.

UV Info

According to EnLux.. these bulbs do emit a trace amount of UV. No uVC and no uVA... but it does emit a bit of uVB. I'm looking into just how much at so I can post it here. I haven't noticed any sort of tanning or anything so it must not be too much. Other products on the market do too, but they all look pretty weak compared to these LED lights... so I think it is best to know exactly how much considering their power. but like I said... I have not noticed anything that would indicate that these bulbs could give you a tan.

*disclaimer - this is what is happening to ME... others may experience different results. If blue light has worked for you in the past... your results will more than likely be identical to mine. Please see the Blue Light FAQ post by Wolfy pinned to the top for more info.

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So I got them today! I now have two ultra powerful 415nm EnLux LED lamps. Along with a red one as well.

I will be starting treatment today and will post daily updates to this thread.

For complete specs... please see my original post here... http://www.acne.org/messageboard/As-promis...ps-t144254.html

All the info in the original post is the same as now, except disregard all info about the 470nm... I have 415nm's now.

I also have a complete spectral analysis of the wavelength which I will post soon. This will include all sorts of cool readings that I am sure will impress! :dance:

Spectral Analysis:

coming soon...

Day 1:

I am having some trouble putting the graph up here... I tried to add the image using the image button above but it wont work, I tried html as well but that doesn't work either. Anybody know how to add the pic?

As for day one review... these lights are BRIGHT. you need to wear goggles or cover your eyes, otherwise you'll get a headache. Really no different in that respect from a Lumenis machine in a derm's office or medispa.

Day 2:

Decided to do another 15min session today. I have a cool little set up now with the 2 blue lights flanking the red... so me face is basically bathed in super bright light. Believe it or not... my acne has already started to subside... but this is no different than my experience with the Lumenis Clear Light Machine.

I'll try to post pictures soon, but I only have cell phone camera which will look like crap. I'll see what I can come up with.

*disclaimer - this is what is happening to ME... others may experience different results. If blue light has worked for you in the past... your results will more than likely be identical to mine. Please see the Blue Light FAQ post by Wolfy pinned to the top for more info.

How do you know that they are 415nm if everything looks the same as before?

are there any special marking on the bulbs?

is it more violet than blue now?

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I have a computer spectral analysis of the bulbs (which i am having trouble posting) ... and yes you can visibly tell that they are in the 415nm range. from what i understand... the technology behind the bulbs produces such pure light that the only thing you could find more focused exactly at 415nm would be a laser beam.

I meant everything was the same as in my treatment protocol except for the fact that I have 415 bulbs now instead of 470 (the light color is not the same)... that aspect is a definite difference.

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So I got them today! I now have two ultra powerful 415nm EnLux LED lamps. Along with a red one as well.

Hello hhughes,

How were you able to get the 415nm lamps? I contacted sci art and was told that they don't have them yet but will "soon". This was a reply today 6-13-07. They also told me that the red lamps they sell are 620nm, and I understand the recommended is 660nm, though I'm not sure how much difference it makes. Thanks.

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So I got them today! I now have two ultra powerful 415nm EnLux LED lamps. Along with a red one as well.

Hello hhughes,

How were you able to get the 415nm lamps? I contacted sci art and was told that they don't have them yet but will "soon". This was a reply today 6-13-07. They also told me that the red lamps they sell are 620nm, and I understand the recommended is 660nm, though I'm not sure how much difference it makes. Thanks.

Shade451 -

The red is indeed off the study wl... but the red wl is not as critical as the blue from what others on this board have stated.

As for the 415nm lamps.... I have been pestering SciArt for months and months. Literally calling and e-mailing and so on.... I had bought some 470nm lamps months ago and returned them but requested that they instead of refunding my money... just send me 415nm when they arrive. I even at times brought their trustworthyness into account so I am sure to a certain extent they saw me as a pestering customer.

They do have the bulbs... but I bet they are waiting to hear back from the EnLux engineer on the uV that is emitted by the bulbs... I told them i didn't care and i just wanted the bulbs ASAP.

Also, they are slow to update their website and the new bulbs are about 20 bucks more than all the others. They also don't know what the package price will be yet for multiple bulbs. So in that regard... I haven't even been charged the difference I owe yet. But they sent them to me anyway.

So I think in this case, I got a little bit of special treatment. But they for sure have them, they just want to be able to put all the specs on their site... b/c I know they want to be sure of the uV and post that info on the site before they sell.

But yes, I have had the bulbs for almost 1 and 1/2 weeks now.

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I was able to order the 415nm bulb directly from Enlux. I should have them in a day or two.

Yup... looks like you can now get them from EnLux direct too!

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Hey hhughes,

Just wondering what kind of DIY knowledge u have to put these bulbs to use..

I went on the Enlux website; what exactly did you buy? :think:

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Hey hhughes,

Just wondering what kind of DIY knowledge u have to put these bulbs to use..

I went on the Enlux website; what exactly did you buy? :think:

Well, I dont know about DIY... you cant make these lights... but SciArt sells these special clamps that you can position at any angle.... i set up 2 415nm lights and a red one onto the edge of a table and i just sit in front of them.

its working beautifully so far... i go three days on and then take a day off now. but i think im gonna go 4 days on and then a day off.

MomWhoSews - the lights on the EnLux site should be labeled 415nm ... they have black fins.

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Hi all. I've been following this thread closely and was really interested in purchasing these bulbs, but sheesh - the 415nm bulbs on the EnLux site are $119! Is that how much you paid for them, hhughes? Seems like buying the acnelamp or similar would cost about the same...

Hey hhughes,

Just wondering what kind of DIY knowledge u have to put these bulbs to use..

I went on the Enlux website; what exactly did you buy? :think:

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Hi all. I've been following this thread closely and was really interested in purchasing these bulbs, but sheesh - the 415nm bulbs on the EnLux site are $119! Is that how much you paid for them, hhughes? Seems like buying the acnelamp or similar would cost about the same...

i didnt pay that much... yet.

I had paid about $85 a piece for 470 nm lights... but i sent them back... told them to keep the money and just send me the new ones.

SciArt hasn't charged me the difference yet b/c they do a special package deal for buying more than one light... so I dont know how much i will pay... but it will probably be like another $30 bucks.

I think the Acne lamp is WAY more expensive.

Here is another thing to consider... acne lamp does a bunch of tests on lights to compare... they say they have the most powerful lights but I find this highly unlikely.

Here is why...

AcneLamp has a video of their lamps on YouTube... you can see the light hitting a persons face from like 3 inches away... and it is not very bright. The light is also on top of a desk in one shot and you cant see any light shining on the table.

Based on the video... I would say that their light is not as powerful as they say it is. OR they are misleading in their representation. Its not an independent test so I would never believe them anyway since they are looking to profit from the information.

The EnLux light I have... you could turn on in the brightest light... and you would still see the violet color on anything.

IMO - based on the video and the lights I have...you would need several AcneLamps to get light as intense as you get from one single EnLux bulb. But i'm just going off the video... i have never owned an AcneLamp.

so basically... one or two enlux lights would be much more powerful than the $600 - $700 3 headed acnelamp. which is the rip off of the century if you ask me.

i would be all for the AcneLamp but it seems that the EnLux bulbs are in the correct spectrum and brighter.

I have a spectral analysis but I need to post it as a picture and the stupid message board wont let me!

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I posted the Spectral Analysis in my Gallery - just FYI

Also, some new info...

EnLux is indeed selling the lights but without any sort of guarantee. If you get them from SciArt... they give you a 90 day money back guarantee.

Apparently, EnLux has been selling the 415nm light since they are currently out of stock on their Uv 395nm light... I don't know if they will continue to sell the 415 once new blacklights are made.

Looks like the SciArt website has been updated as well with new info on the 415nm lights. They say they will be posting the curve for their red light as well.... and they say it peaks at 668nm which is pretty close to the study 660nm. I originally thought the red LED was way off but not anymore... this is very close.

Also, there is a new page about the LED technology on the SciArt site that was pretty interesting....

http://www.sci-art-global.com/acne/enlux-tech.htm

But most interesting was that they say that they will be testing their EnLux bulbs by an INDEPENDENT lab in the near future.... this is great news for us!

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Thanks for the feedback, hhughes. I think you are right about the brightness of the enlux bulbs, which is why I have been reluctant to purchase the acnelamp or any of the other commercial light products. Seems like you would pay more for a less effective product.

Based on your experience, do you think that one could get away with only purchasing one 415nm bulb? Or do you really need two to get reasonable converage? I suppose I could do one side of my face at a time...

I posted the Spectral Analysis in my Gallery - just FYI

Also, some new info...

EnLux is indeed selling the lights but without any sort of guarantee. If you get them from SciArt... they give you a 90 day money back guarantee.

Apparently, EnLux has been selling the 415nm light since they are currently out of stock on their Uv 395nm light... I don't know if they will continue to sell the 415 once new blacklights are made.

Looks like the SciArt website has been updated as well with new info on the 415nm lights. They say they will be posting the curve for their red light as well.... and they say it peaks at 668nm which is pretty close to the study 660nm. I originally thought the red LED was way off but not anymore... this is very close.

Also, there is a new page about the LED technology on the SciArt site that was pretty interesting....

http://www.sci-art-global.com/acne/enlux-tech.htm

But most interesting was that they say that they will be testing their EnLux bulbs by an INDEPENDENT lab in the near future.... this is great news for us!

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Laurza...

You could most definately get away with one bulb.

I am really busy and lazy LOL... so i don't have much time to do several session in one day... so that is why I got 2 blue bulbs.

One bulb will hit your entire face if you sit back a few inches. But of course the sides wont get as much direct light. so you would maybe want to move around from side to side... like 5min direct front... then five minutes on each side for a total of 15min. That way all sides would get at least 5min of 100% light and the rest of the time you get like 75%

I would recommend getting a red light as well... then you would be using the actual study protocol as published in the British Journal of Dermatology paper. I attached the full study to this post.... just FYI.

Also, keep in mind that 415nm is NOT the most effective wavelength for killing P.acnes, it is SECOND to.... uV at 320nm... most other products do not emit any uV... but the EnLux bulbs do emit a bit of uV just as the British study lights also did.

So all around... the EnLux bulbs are the closest thing to the British study you can get on the market today. And not to worry, the uV emitted is very low and safe. but not safe for P.acnes which are hyper-sensitive to it.

Also, even though I have had trouble with SciArt in the past... I would recommend getting the lights from there... only b/c you get a 90 day money back guarantee for ACNE... if you dont clear you can get your money back... You can also get clamps and stuff from them too.

But if you buy directly from EnLux... you cant get your money back for non-clearance... b/c they dont sell their lights for acne... they are a light company... not an acne company.

P.S. - it's been about 2.5 weeks and I am almost completely clear now (keep in mind that I've also been using Retin-A Micro for about 2 years without 100% clearance)... i just need the residual inflammation to subside which will take some time. But all indications are pointing to these lights being 100% as advertised. another positive i have noticed is that since the bulbs are so small and you can basically do anything with them, and all the colors are separate ... you have tons of flexibility to use the lights as you please.... for example... red light has been scientifically proven to accelerate wound healing.... so if i have a cut on my foot.... i can not worry about the blue light and just use the red on my foot for like ten minutes! There are just so many options with these bulbs.

british_journal.pdf

british_journal.pdf

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hhughes-

Well, I'm sold. I just ordered one blue and one red bulb from SciArt. Unfortunately, they were out of stock on the fixtures - do these bulbs have a base that can be screwed into a regular light socket? I would think that I could get appropriate fixtures at a hardware store.

I also use Retin-A Micro, but have not experienced total clearance with it. It definitely helps, but doesn't do the job completely. What has worked really well for me in the past is the RAM in combination with oral antibiotics (minocycline) but these have recently caused me some serious stomach irritation (not to mention that I've never liked the idea of being on antibiotics constantly). So I'm hoping that the lights will give me the boost that I need.

I opted for the free shipping from SciArt, so I'm not sure when I'll get the bulbs, but I will obviously report on my progress once I receive them.

Thanks for all of your help!

Laurza...

You could most definately get away with one bulb.

I am really busy and lazy LOL... so i don't have much time to do several session in one day... so that is why I got 2 blue bulbs.

One bulb will hit your entire face if you sit back a few inches. But of course the sides wont get as much direct light. so you would maybe want to move around from side to side... like 5min direct front... then five minutes on each side for a total of 15min. That way all sides would get at least 5min of 100% light and the rest of the time you get like 75%

I would recommend getting a red light as well... then you would be using the actual study protocol as published in the British Journal of Dermatology paper. I attached the full study to this post.... just FYI.

Also, keep in mind that 415nm is NOT the most effective wavelength for killing P.acnes, it is SECOND to.... uV at 320nm... most other products do not emit any uV... but the EnLux bulbs do emit a bit of uV just as the British study lights also did.

So all around... the EnLux bulbs are the closest thing to the British study you can get on the market today. And not to worry, the uV emitted is very low and safe. but not safe for P.acnes which are hyper-sensitive to it.

Also, even though I have had trouble with SciArt in the past... I would recommend getting the lights from there... only b/c you get a 90 day money back guarantee for ACNE... if you dont clear you can get your money back... You can also get clamps and stuff from them too.

But if you buy directly from EnLux... you cant get your money back for non-clearance... b/c they dont sell their lights for acne... they are a light company... not an acne company.

P.S. - it's been about 2.5 weeks and I am almost completely clear now (keep in mind that I've also been using Retin-A Micro for about 2 years without 100% clearance)... i just need the residual inflammation to subside which will take some time. But all indications are pointing to these lights being 100% as advertised. another positive i have noticed is that since the bulbs are so small and you can basically do anything with them, and all the colors are separate ... you have tons of flexibility to use the lights as you please.... for example... red light has been scientifically proven to accelerate wound healing.... so if i have a cut on my foot.... i can not worry about the blue light and just use the red on my foot for like ten minutes! There are just so many options with these bulbs.

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hhughes-

Well, I'm sold. I just ordered one blue and one red bulb from SciArt. Unfortunately, they were out of stock on the fixtures - do these bulbs have a base that can be screwed into a regular light socket? I would think that I could get appropriate fixtures at a hardware store.

I also use Retin-A Micro, but have not experienced total clearance with it. It definitely helps, but doesn't do the job completely. What has worked really well for me in the past is the RAM in combination with oral antibiotics (minocycline) but these have recently caused me some serious stomach irritation (not to mention that I've never liked the idea of being on antibiotics constantly). So I'm hoping that the lights will give me the boost that I need.

I opted for the free shipping from SciArt, so I'm not sure when I'll get the bulbs, but I will obviously report on my progress once I receive them.

Thanks for all of your help!

Laurza,

The bulbs will screw into any socket a regular light bulb will too.

You can totally get your own fixtures, the SciArt ones are just convenient b/c they clamp on to anything and can by adjusted to and angle in a complete sphere.

But if you go to a photography store, they are the same thing as what professional photographers use for their flash bulbs.

When you do get a fixture, make sure it is open air. You cannot use these bulbs in an enclosed fixture.

As for shipping, SciArt does really fast shipping, I was really impressed.

What strength of retin-a micro do you use? I use the 0.1% (the purple tubes not the gray).

I think you will get better results than anyone that way... here is why. I went to a highly respected dermatologist (referred by my regular derm - he doesn't do light therapy or laser treatments) to ask him about lasers and light therapy once. He had a lumenis blue light machine and said it probably wouldn't make me 100% perfectly clear but if I did other stuff with it... it was likely that I could get 100% clear. I was on Minocycline too from my regular derm already and I really wanted to quit... I HATE TAKING ANTIBIOTICS.

~

The Retin-A Micro doesn't kill bacteria, it gets rid of Comedones.

The blue lights are not particularly great at getting rid of Comedones, but kill bacteria easily.

All study results point to blue light being AT LEAST as effective as antibiotics with NO side-effects...

So together, you can probably get perfect skin if you skin is like mine...

Like I've posted before.... I did one session of clearlight (at a medspa) and was just starting retin-a micro at the time (almost 3 years ago id say) and I became so clear that when I went in to see my regular derm he freaked out, and said he couldn't believe it but I had no treatable acne on my face. I looked the best I had ever looked in my life.

So now, after so much waiting, I think I have finally found lights for myself! And I'm really clearing now. I never was 100% clear b/c I refused to take antibiotics for about 3 years especially after discovering the light treatments. But I didn't want to spend $75 a pop to do light treatment twice a week when the studies show you need to do it everyday anyway. I just toughed it out for a long time and never completely controlled my breakouts b/c I could never control the P.Acnes bacteria.

I think those people that have Comedones and a bacteria problem... like me... will benefit greatly from the combination treatment...

But over the counter comedone treatment would probably work as well, if it is not severe... but retin-a micro is the only one that works for me... Differin probably would too, but whats the point of trying that if retin-a micro is already working.

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I thought that the color of the LED's didn't matter :think:

the only wavelength that kills p.acne is...

1. 320nm - you cant see it (maximum according to British study)

2. 415nm - it is a violet color, almost ultra-violet (second maximum according to British study)

P.acnes is also vulnerable at all the wl in between 320-415 as well... but the peaks are as stated above.

and for the red light to stimulate the microphages and skin regeneration...

you want to be as close to 660nm as possible (a red color)

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Just had a look on the SciArt website and these things are pretty expensive. $120 for one blue bulb, $100 for a second and $90 for a red bulb. Together with postage to the UK that totals nearly $300. Then you would have to allow for import duty and VAT and a handling charge - in my experience this would likely be another $100+.

So in the UK we would be paying $400 (£200) for three bulbs. Are they likely to be that much better than a BeautySkin to make this a worthwhile expenditure?

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Does anyone know of the effectiveness of these lights with very oily skin and open pores? I rarely suffer from breakout anymore but the oily skin issue continues.

I submitted a question to Dr. Garcia in the "scar forum" dealing with oily skin and he mentioned that "Blue light" or "IPL" "may help to a mild extent".

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Just had a look on the SciArt website and these things are pretty expensive. $120 for one blue bulb, $100 for a second and $90 for a red bulb. Together with postage to the UK that totals nearly $300. Then you would have to allow for import duty and VAT and a handling charge - in my experience this would likely be another $100+.

So in the UK we would be paying $400 (£200) for three bulbs. Are they likely to be that much better than a BeautySkin to make this a worthwhile expenditure?

I dont know... it was easier for me since I am in the U.S.

I think from a tech standpoint the answer would be absolutelty... but i have never owned a beauty skin.

Is it possible for SciArt to write "Gift" or "No Value" on the package for you to avoid fees?

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Hhughes,

Im just wondering how many clamps you bought? Is one clamp for one light necessary?

Yeah, you can only fit one light into one clamp.

I bought 3 clamps, one for each bulb I have. They aren't really "clamps" literally... they are actually photography fixtures. You know how photographers in a studio just move lights around from stand to stand quickly and without effort... they are those kind of clamp on fixtures.

You can get away with one clamp if you want to only use one bulb... or you dont even need a clamp at all if you can go to a Home Depot and get an open air fixture.

The clamps are just really convenient. And they have a nice long cord with a nifty little switch. and they "clamp" onto anything that isn't too wide... and they have rubber grippy things on the clamp jaws so they don't damage anything.

I clamped all three bulbs onto the end of a my computer desk... and plugged the clamps into a power strip.

i have the two blues set up with the red in the middle.

p.s. has anyone else received and begun using the bulbs yet?

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OK.

Quick update... I have had my lights for about a month now and things are fantastic.

I have no... NO... pimples on my face at all!

I did get one pimple during this last week but today it finally subsided to nothingness.

It was the only new pimple i got since I began treatment that was noticeable and laster longer than a day.

About 2 weeks ago I started using the lights everyday instead of every other day.

I plan to continue that pattern until i feel comfortable backing off... I think I'll go for a full 8 weeks just to make sure all the p. acnes is good and dead.. then do touch-ups every few days.

I am interested to hear if the lights are working for anyone else, although I'm sure they are.

Anyway... Im totally clear now... it took about 4 weeks... and the red marks judging by appearance and fade progression so far... should be completely gone in another 3 weeks or so.

Hooray!

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