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SweetJade1980

CHALLENGE: Prove that Diet has NO Effect on our Hormones

Of course, I do apologize for my lengthy posts, but some of you are very demanding people. ;-)

Unfortunately, so far it seem like you guys are all talk. Outside of several people posting that highly outdated and irresponsible chocolate study, NO ONE has ever put any effort into supporting their opposing claims...yet you expect us to. Therefore, my CHALLENGE to all of you Anti-Acne Dieters or Skeptics is this:

Prove that DIET has NO EFFECT on our HORMONES and thus, our ACNE.

Rule # 1 - Because "My Doctor Said so" or "My Dermatologsit said so," is NOT good enough! There are increasingly more Doctors, Endocrinologists, Dermatologists (amazing huh), Allergists, Nutritionists, and Naturopaths that have said it does.

Rule # 2 - Because "Jane eats 'Junk' and She doesn't have acne, just doesn't cut it." (see prior post)

Rule # 3 - For you Brainiacs I want CLINCAL Studies to support your claims and preferrably RECENT studies.

Otherwise feel free to:

Give Detailed Personal Accounts-

a)Type of Diet - Foods you ate and avoided

B) Length of Time

c) How diligently did you avoid those foods?

d) Why did you chose that particular diet?

e) Any Results - acne, wieght, etc

Mention and post links to Websites

Mention Books

Anything that supports your claims and that's preferrably recent.

In general, you should NEVER take anyone's word for it, unless they've got the research, evidence, etc to back them up. I want to see you guys THINK for yourselves! Instead of blindly and repeatedly quoting outdated material or an out-of-date Doctor, you should do your own research first. If you approach a dead end, get creative and try other ways of researching the same problem.

I'd love it if we could have a discussion where we were actually helping to find a solution instead of arguing and disrepecting others. So, I don't know if any of you will do this for us, but I figure it can't hurt to ask. After all, you've asked, demanded, and we've delivered, so now it's your chance...

Thanks

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SweetJade have you ever thought of establishing your own website rather than using Dan's as a platform for your own quite specialised discussions?

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Frances,

Are you kidding me, that would be faaar to much work and I think Dan and other Hosts already have great boards . ;-) Besides, others post anti-diet threads, so why can't I post a not so much pro-diet, but Pro-Knowledge thread?

Thanks though =)

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Frances,

 Are you kidding me, that would be faaar to much work and I think Dan and other Hosts already have great boards .  ;-)  Besides, others post anti-diet threads, so why can't I post a not so much pro-diet, but Pro-Knowledge thread?

Thanks though  =)

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Of course, I do apologize for my lengthy posts, but some of you are very demanding people.  ;-)  

Unfortunately, so far it seem like you guys are all talk.  Outside of several people posting that highly outdated and irresponsible chocolate study, NO ONE has ever put any effort into supporting their opposing claims...yet you expect us to. Therefore, my CHALLENGE to all of you Anti-Acne Dieters or Skeptics is this:

 

Prove that DIET has NO EFFECT on our HORMONES and thus, our ACNE.

 

Rule # 1  - Because \"My Doctor Said so\" or \"My Dermatologsit said so,\" is NOT good enough!  There are increasingly more Doctors, Endocrinologists, Dermatologists (amazing huh), Allergists, Nutritionists, and Naturopaths that have said it does.

 

Rule # 2 - Because  \"Jane eats 'Junk' and She doesn't have acne, just doesn't cut it.\"  (see prior post)

 

Rule # 3 - For you Brainiacs I want CLINCAL Studies to support your claims and preferrably RECENT studies.  

 

Otherwise feel free to:

Give Detailed Personal Accounts-

a)Type of Diet - Foods you ate and avoided

B) Length of Time

c)  How diligently did you avoid those foods?

d) Why did you chose that particular diet?

e) Any Results - acne, wieght, etc

 

Mention and post links to Websites

 

Mention Books

 

Anything that supports your claims and that's preferrably recent.

 

In general, you should NEVER take anyone's word for it, unless they've got the research, evidence, etc to back them up.  I want to see you guys THINK for yourselves! Instead of blindly and repeatedly quoting outdated material or an out-of-date Doctor, you should do your own research first.  If you approach a dead end, get creative and try other ways of researching the same problem.

 

I'd love it if we could have a discussion where we were actually helping to find a solution instead of arguing and disrepecting others. So,  I don't know if any of you will do this for us, but I figure it can't hurt to ask.  After all, you've asked, demanded, and we've delivered, so now it's your chance...

 

Thanks

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Acne is a bacteria. It is, and only is bacteria. That grows on it's own. In no food can you find anything that encourages bacteria growth.

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=D> Hey SweetJade1980...thank-you for posting all of that information for us to read. I have always believed diet affects acne and actually I am on a diet right now, but I'm not sure it is a good one to be on to prevent pimples. Since you already know, when u have time could u please list some foods that would be healthy for me to eat while on an acne prevention diet. Thanks! smile.gif

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Hottie,

Here's a thread where I posted some dietary suggestions for someone. http://acne.org/messageboard/viewtopic.php?t=882 I've got soo many suggestions, but it depends on what your current diet is, etc. So after you've looked it over, if that doesn't help you any then I'd be happy to answer more of your questions on that thread.

G'Night =)

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O.D.

LOL, you are too funny. I know you are just trying to mess with me, but it's not working ;-)

Ever heard of Mendelian Genetics? Well that was a highly simplified Spin-off of it. Most definately no Punnett Square there, for I was only working with the idea of different genes combined with a non-genetic variable (Food). I choose to make it look like a Mathematical equation, because that's what Genetics is all about...Probability. That's pretty much what seperates the girl with acne, the guy with high cholesterol, and the dad with Diabetes, despite them having been exposed to the SAME toxin, aggrevator, etc.

Thank you Njacobs for clarifying that aspect of acne. P. acnes is a bacteria (among many bacteriae and parasites) that everyone has on their skin, so why would this matter to an acne sufferer? Indeed, some people are sensitive to normal amounts of this bacteria and so when trapped under the skin it causes inflammation and that indeed equals acne...for some.

Now, most of us aren't taking antibiotics internally or topically, so how are the rest of us treating or eliminating our acne???

What caused those Sebaceous Glands to get clogged in the first place?

What caused us to produce sebum (not always a factor)?

Maybe this link I found under Dan's Acne Links will help clarify this more:

"What causes acne?

Most people develop acne during adolescence. It is most prevalent in those aged 16 to 18 years. The reasons are:

There are higher levels of sex hormones at puberty than in younger children.

These hormones are converted in the skin to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) which stimulates oil glands to enlarge.

The oil glands, called sebaceous glands, produce sebum. The more sebum, the more likely it is that acne will be troublesome.

If sebum and keratin (dead skin cells) block the skin pores, comedones can develop.

The wall of the follicles may rupture.

Bacteria and comedonal debris cause acne pimples or pustules (inflammatory lesions).

Acne usually becomes less of a problem after the age of 25 years, although about 15% of women and 5% of men continue to have acne as adults.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aggravating factors

Some people have particularly severe acne. This may be because of:

Genetic factors (family members have bad acne)

Hormonal factors(higher levels of androgenic hormones) due to:

-Polycystic ovaries (common)

-Enzyme deficiency eg sterol hydroxylase deficiency (very rare)

-Excessive corticosteroids (eg Cushing's disease) (rare)

-Psychological stress and depression

Environmental factors such as:

-High humidity causing swelling of the skin

-Cosmetics especially certain moisturisers, foundation and pomades (watch out for lanolin, petrolatum, vegetable oils, butyl stearate, lauryl alcohol and oleic acid)

-Petroleum oils

-Pressure from headbands & chin straps (eg: "fiddler's neck")

Certain medications.

Why acne eventually resolves is not understood. It does not coincide with a reduction in sebum production or with a reduction in the number of bacteria. It may relate to changes in the sebaceous glands themselves. "

http://www.dermnetnz.org/dna.acne/acne.cau.html

Hmm...OK, so, what would further affect our sebaceous glands and increase our DHT levels?

"Hormone changes in acne

Patients with acne often have oily skin (seborrhoea). This may be because of:

*High overall levels of sex hormones (mainly the androgen, testosterone).

*Increased free testosterone because of low levels of circulating sex-hormone-binding-globulin (SHBG). Normally there is little free testosteronecirculating in the blood as it is tightly bound by SHBG.

*More active conversion of weaker androgens to stronger androgens such as dihydroxytestosterone (DHT) by the enzyme 5-reductase within the skin.

*Higher sensitivity of the skin to DHT.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What conditions cause high levels of androgens in women?

About 50% of females with acne have an imbalance of hormones although this is usually only mild.

It is seldom necessary to test hormone levels in patients with acne unless there are other features suggesting they are excessive (hyperandrogenism). Such features include balding (androgenetic alopecia), hirsutism, clitoral enlargement (virilisation).

High levels of male sex hormones may arise from:

Disease of the ovaries

*Polycystic ovarian syndrome: this results in hirsutism, infertility and/or irregular menstruation

*Benign (non-invasive) or malignant (cancerous) ovarian tumours

Disease of the adrenal gland

*Partial deficiency of the adrenal enzyme 21-hydroxylase

*Benign or malignant adrenal tumours

Disease of the pituitary gland

*Cushing's syndrome due to excessive adrenocorticotrophic hormone (ACTH) causes moon face, truncal obesity, thin skin, easy bruising, stretch marks (striae), hirsutism and tiredness

*Acromegaly (gigantism) due to excessive growth hormone production

Tumour producing prolactin which causes inappropriate milk secretion (galactorrhoea).

*Obesity - more androgens are made in body fat

Most patients with acne have normal circulating levels of androgenic hormones but the affected sebaceous glands have increased activity of 5-reductase. "

http://www.dermnetnz.org/dna.acne/acne.hca.html

Sorry, but personally I think the above statement about it being "seldom necessary to test hormone levels in patients with acne " is what has done myself and others a GREAT disservice! If you can get tested and see an Endocrinologist, your acne could be treated and hopefully eliminated before any further damage ensues. I would hate to see more unsuspecting women and men (yes you can have some of the above disorders) on here continue to have problems. There's no excuse for that, we shouldn't have to suffer.

Now, O.D., doesn't the above sound like the same things I've been telling you on this and the Accutane-Insulin Threads? Therefore, so far there is nothing silly or presumptious about my claims....they are based on FACTS from dozens upon dozens of reputable sources and testimonies.

Nighty night

=)

P.S. Thanks so much for correcting my spelling...no one's perfect ;-)

P.P. S. What causes the production of the above hormones?

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food definatly has a direct connection to acne. Bad foods might not cause it, but eating healthy can help you prevent it and help your skin heal better. If you dont eat the right things your body cannot function normally.

To actually answer the original post, yea, certain foods probably do cause your hormones to act differently. However i don't think eating junk food once will do anything. Its really all long term stuff.

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Heres a simple one.

Acne is a bacteria. It is, and only is bacteria. That grows on it's own. In no food can you find anything that encourages bacteria growth.

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Thanks for posting this sweetjade and taking such a massive amount of your time to help everyone here. Having gotten clear 100% through diet, and studying the subject significantly myself, I can say that your information and knowledge of acne is greater than anyone's.

Also, it does seem as if "hormonal imbalance" has become all the rage. It is easy to blame acne on something like that - nice and obscure and irrelevant. And you brought up THE question, which is:

Q. Why do you have a hormonal imbalance in the first place?

And I will add:

A. Because of the food you eat, and more importantly, what you have eaten in the PAST, for the last 10-20+ years.

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Great topic!

I tried the diet approach 1st...no go. Then topicals...no go...

Here's the combo that has worked 98% for me:

1- cleansed and flushed liver

2- started hormone therapy to reduce estrogen level (had many other problems due to too much estrogen)

3- modified diet

4- botchla's regimen

I think diet plays a HUGE role in the proper functioning of all bodily organs, including the largest organ - the skin. I believe a faulty diet contributed to my hormone imbalance and my congested liver...which in turn contributed to my acne. I personally need both diet and topicals right now. But I believe that by treating my body correctly now, I may not have to continue liver cleanses or hormones or topicals!

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I do feel diet plays a role in ACNE and skin ailments. Diet affects our whole body so how can it not affcet the skin?

I watch a lot of documentaries and never reallt see ACNE in people who live in simple agrarian socities where most if not all of their food is 'Natural' as opposed to ' Manufactured' .

I can only talk about my own experience and from my own experience, I break out with less whiteheads if I eat more home cooked meals and stay away from junk foods. Ofcourse this is just my own personal observations.

DR Perricone mentions in his best selling book that certain foods ae inflamatory and some are anti-inflamatory.

IMO Everything from Pollution to climate to foods , affects ACNE but most probably not to the extent that hormones and genes do.

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hey ...

justaguy, u said u got clear from eating healthy. Thats great. Could you please give me an example of what you eat in a day, just so I have an idea. Jade, could u also do that too? THanks! ByeBye

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Hottie,

Hey there, well if you really want me to tell you what I eat in a day, then here's what I had to eat today (Thursday):

Bowl of Hormel Chili

Rasins - 2 servings

MountainHigh Organic Yogurt - 4oz

Handful of Lay's Potato Chips

Dinner: Fried Baby Back Ribs (no batter), Collard Greens, Potato Salad, and White Rice w/ hint of margarine

Desert: Homemade Sweet Potato Pie w/ a little whipped cream - didn't eat the crust and the filling had no flour.

After dinner: 4 Sonic Drive In Tacos (not certain these are wheat free...they were weird) w/ salsa

1 Pear

4 Glasses of Water

1/2 glass of Lipton Instant Iced Tea (prefer natural stuff)

As you can see, when I'm busy, my meals don't make any sense ;-) I grab pretty much what I can, if I'm in a hurry. Sometimes it's nothing and sometimes its something less desirable. I try to have cut up fruit or veggies or dried fruit around for when I have the munchies. Here's what I had on Wednesday:

Grapes

Baked Chicken (Albertsons's) - 2 servings

1 Organic Fruit Leather - It's like Fruit Rollup, dehydrated fruit

Raisins - 1 serving (handful)

Quaker Oats Mini Apple Cinnamon Rice Cakes (prefer the Large ones) - 1 - 2 servings

Bowl of Fruit - watermelon, cantaloupe, honey dew melon

About a Handful of Potato Chips

About a Handful of Almonds & Pecans

Bowl of Hormel Chili

Grapes again (new year's tradition)

1 Apple

Drank nothing but Water

Also, I don't always get 3 meals a day. It wouldn't matter anyway my metabolism is so fast that I really have to eat 5 meals/Day, lots of protein shakes/brewers yeast, and exercise with weights to actually gain weight. I'm too busy for that =(

Some days are better than others, but obviously my meals can use more balance. However this is very similar to what I used to eat before, only there were more TV Dinners, Canned, and Fast Foods involved and less Fruits, Veggies and Nuts ( I eat seeds too). Anyway, in case you couldn't figure it out, these are the foods I'm avoiding:

Gluten Grains - Involves elimination of ALL Wheat Variets (tons of them), along with Barely and Rye and Oats (debatable). Although, I actually usually only consume Corn and Rice.

Bananas & Cherries - gives me cysts

Peanuts & Cashews - gives me cysts

Soda & non-100% fruit Juice (by choice) - soda gives me cysts

Cereal - Organic GF or Refined GF, it gives me tiny pimples in and around my earlobes. Don't know if it's the Organic Milk or the GF cereal itself.

Chocolate Candy - not Organic Dark Chocolate, but the refined/processed stuff. It gives me Sugar Pimples (tiny white heads) that usually come and go rather quickly on my neck!!!

Just so you have all the variables of my diet, I'm also naturally avoiding the following due to them being in foods that I'm intentionally avoiding(also increase our IGF-1 levels):

Dairy - I try to use Organic Diary for cooking (but I rarely need it) or Organic Yogurt. Rarely eat cheese unless it's in a taco or on some meal at resturant

Bad Oils - Have been greatly reduced by at least 50% due to consuming less fast foods, canned, frozen, etc foods.

I also try to avoid bad preservatives & MSG but when hungry and given a choice, I will take the preservative over gluten. However I recently learned that MSG has been connected to a rise in IGF-1 levels (increases all things we love about acne..ha ha) and so I'm going to be much more strict on this pesky chemical. It's basically used to make foods taste better, yet when I think about it Doritos and Flavored Chips don't really taste as good as Organic & Naturally Flavored Chips do....yet they are cheaper. Oh well, I shouldn't eat those lots anyway so it's organic flavored chips from now on ;-)

HTH

P.S. So what kind of diet are you on?

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any weightlifter with any knowledge whatsoever will purposely spike insulin after a workout. the benefits, body composition wise as well as recovery and performance wise are tremendous. usually this is done simply with a high gi carb drink + some bcaa's.

i suspect that this is also causes acne for some people to a degree.

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