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This is a log of ideas that might help with scarring. I will edit this post a lot. If you have any ideas, spot anything false, tried something before or anything else, please post! We need new ideas and people willing to try them as well as people to spot things that might be dangerous. Finding practical, low cost methods of implementation - like vinegar and lemon is also important otherwise a lot of people will be left out.

I don't know that much about biology or how our bodies work. I'm going to read up as much as I can, but if anybody knows this stuff please help. Please correct me if I'm wrong, ignoring an important part of the picture, etc, and explain how things work.

Approach 1: Supplementation of diet with amino acids

Supplementation with arganine, HMB and glutamine helps elderly rebuild collagen after a wound. (click for study)

This supplement mixture is called Juven, and it is for cancer and aids patients. A 15 day supply is $89. Look around their website. It seems like really good stuff. http://www.juven.com

Questions

0. What is HMB? It isn't an amino acid.

It is a metabolite of leucine. This means the body makes HMB from leucine. HMB is helps protect the cell membrane from damage. (what kind of damage, how?)

1. What is arganine and why is it good?

Arganine is an amino acid. It promotes wound healing and stimulates the secretion of growth hormone. IF YOU HAVE HAD HERPES, DO NOT EAT LOTS OF ARGANINE.

2. What is glutamine and why is it good?

Glutamine is an amino acid. Fibroblasts, lymphocytes, and macrophages use glutamine as a metabolic fuel and for nucleotide synthesis, which regulates cellular proliferation. Glutamine depletion can slow fibroblast growth, while adequate glutamine can stimulate growth and cellular proliferation in vitro. The dependence on glutamine in fibroblasts makes this nutrient a vital component of the healing response in wounds.

Problems:

This stuff is expensive

- Find easily digestible sources:

arganine-nuts, chocolate, fish, grains (find content)

glutamine-cottage cheese, milk products

leucine-meat & dairy

- Chew foods properly

- babyfoods & eating slowly

- Perhaps pre-digest them with papain/bromelain?

Approach 2: Niacin(Vitamin B3) & its derivatives.

One derivative of niacin, nicotinamide, has been shown to improve the ability of the epidermis, the upper-most layer of the skin, to retain moisture. In a recent study, topical nicotinamide was applied to the skin for six days. Following the study, all patients reported softer, smoother skin, less dryness and flakiness, and a reduction of fine lines.

Niacinamide, another derivative, has also been shown to be an effective skin lightening agent, especially for skin conditions where hyperpigmention may occur on the face or other visible parts of the body. Patients with hyperpigmentation applied a moisturizer containing five percent niacinamide. After four weeks, the hyperpigmentation and skin color were analyzed by computer and most patients experienced decreased hyperpigmentation and increased skin lightness.

Topical niacinamide has also been shown to have anti-inflammatory properties, which makes it a potential treatment for acne, rosacea and any blistering-type disease. Recent studies also noted that niacin and its derivatives have chemopreventative effects. When applied to mouse skin, topical nicotinamide produced a 70 percent decrease in ultraviolet-induced skin cancer. - see http://forum.lef.org/forum22/topic1004080.html#1004141

nicotinamide and nicotine are similar molecules but are not identical

-see http://www.vitaletherapeutics.org/vtlnctnc.htm

Maybe taking B3 will help with quitting smoking? I dunno, but it's supposed to be good for skin.

Approach 3: LEDS

Red light helps healing.

http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,60786,00.html

(Do a google search, there is a lot of support for this and it's already in use by hospitals and the military. It's also rather easy to buy a diode array and power it up).

I would be careful and not overdo this though. Nobody has any clue about the long term effects. They could be bad. In the 1920s Radioactivity was the rage, and I suppose it did work, in mild doses. Nobody knew it could be dangerous.

See -

http://www.clpgh.org/exhibit/neighborhoods...e/nor_n106.html

http://cnts.wpi.edu/rsh/Docs/JM95_NN/byers.html

Approach 4: Changing hormone balances - Estrogen & Spironolactone

Taking these will help skin, but don't mess around with them unless a doctor is monitoring you. If you suspect something is wrong, see your doctor. They will take a blood test to check your levels. Hormone imbalances can be an indicator of more serious problems you want your doctor to catch.

Things to Look into

-Circulation (exercise -the 100 from Pilates, cayenne, gotu kola )

-Relaxation

-Exercise

-Find out more about how our body's systems work. Not just skin. Look for general principles that might apply to skin, and learn how other systems might affect skin/health. (perhaps then I can make some sense of fasting, which does seem promising to me)

-Read up in chemistry (read a bit about proteins)

-gotu kola ( http://www.wholehealthmd.com/refshelf/subs...5,10031,00.html )

Things that are said to help

-Perricone foods:Alpha Lipoic Acid,Vitamin C,Salmon,Ellagic Acid, L-Carnitine, grapeseed oil, Coenzyme Q-10, Omega 3 oils

-sardines, salmon, tuna, shell fish, lentils, and beans - http://www.smartbodyz.com/skin-cancer-text.htm

-MSM

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781: I think the reason why he recommends salmon is because of the fish oils. He thinks there might be other as yet unindentified good stuff in salmon too - but only in wild salmon not farm raised. You could try taking salmon oil caps. Look for the words EPA, Omega 3 and Omega 6. I don't know why these fats are good or have any notion of how they work yet.

Maya: Yeah that looks soo hopeful, but there's no way I could afford it right now sad.gif. Also it might be a typo, but there are only 20 different amino acids in existence. Amino acids are like the alphabet, they are like the lego blocks that proteins are built out of - see http://www.cryst.bbk.ac.uk/education/Amino...d/overview.html .

Oh I read the new post! I think it means the special protein is built out of 53 different amino acids. What they can is so amazing, when I think about it. Damn getting a yeast to make a human protein smile.gif

I wish I was in Cuba. They have free healthcare too.

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Guest ObiWontonKenoli

How about juicing? or basically doing the 3-day 'detoxifying' diet? Like doing a 70% veggie/fruit juice and 30% regular meal or something. It won't heal the scars, but if you do it like once a month or something it may clear up the impurities of your skin quite a bit?

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Oh I read the new post!  I think it means the special protein is built out of 53 different amino acids.  What they can is so amazing, when I think about it.  Damn getting a yeast to make a human protein smile.gif

I wish I was in Cuba.  They have free healthcare too.

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Don't discount this cream so quickly. I still think 53 different amino acids means that this growth factor is a protein built out of 53 amino acids.

A peptide is 2 or more amino acids linked together. A protein is also 2 or more amino acids linked together. I'm not sure what the difference between protein and peptide is.

I don't understand all this and don't have the time to read through it carefully right now, http://www.expasy.org/swissmod/course/course-index.htm but this seems like a trustworthy description of a protein.

What I got from skimming it is that, amino acids can join together to form shapes like a helix, or a sheet. This is called a secondary structure. The helix or sheet can then have bends or folds, refered to as the supersecondary structure. Tertiary structure refers to how little add on protein chains stick onto the secondary structure, like a plan of where you put the ornaments on a christmas tree. A protein's quaternary structure refers to how different christmas trees with their ornaments attached join together -so a protein can be a terribly complex mess.

Not all proteins have tertiary or quatenary structure - some proteins are just flat sheets or helixes, then they only have secondary structure.

As far as proteins go, it seems possible to me that a simple useful protein could be made out of 54 different amino acids. 54 proteins chains seems really big, complex, and hard to make but I suppose it's possilble. I don't know enough to determine how reasonable something is yet.

Papain is made out of 213 amino acids. If you download the molecule viewer, Chime - http://www.mdl.com/products/framework/chim...ey_features.jsp

you can see papain's structure here:

http://gcg.tran.wau.nl/~haaker/s-drive/chi...pain/papain.htm.

I would feel a lot better if somebody who understood this stuff would correct me if I make any mistakes. I don't want to tell people things that aren't true. I'm trying my best to figure things out and share, but it's just so much information to go through, I am probably missing some things and making a lot of errors. The things I write could be really wrong.

Anyways, whether they say 53 amino acids or 53 peptides, I don't think we should rule this out yet. This thing still seems legitimate to me. Whether and how much it helps our scarring I'm still not sure.

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obi, I'm not ignoring you, it's just that I have no clue how or why fasting works yet. I suppose any time you increase your consumption of Vitamin C and other good stuff, it would be good for health, and we know lemon juice helps from the vinegar lemon thread. Why, I still have no clue : (.

I do know that reducing calorie intake while getting enough vitamins and nutrients will extend your lifespan. There was some famous study about that in mice.

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Guest ObiWontonKenoli

Oh no..I didn't think you were ignoring me. I was just contributing to your thread smile.gif

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I credit much of skin clearing up to starting to take fish oil supplements with my vitamins at night. I originally started taking them after reading 'The Omega Diet' - for heart health - but have definitely noticed a substantial change in my acne, which is basically gone. I know many don't believe that diet has much to do with acne, but based on my personal experience, I feel it does for me. I adjusted my eating habits after reading 'The Omega Diet' and 'Natural Eating', stopped drinking soda and limited most sugars, and started drinking four to five bottles of water a day. I'd definitely recommend the fish oil capsules, for your heart if nothing else! Be sure to take them right before bed, though, otherwise you'll be awake when you get a 'fishy burp', which is just horrible! If you can't tolerate the fish oil, similar effects can be achieved using flaxseed oil supplements, but they aren't nearly as potent as the fish oil. The two books I mentioned above are fantastic in explaining the ratios of different types of fat our bodies are made to function at, and why the current Western diet of high saturated fats and processed food is a player in the health problems that plague us as a species. Interesting read!

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Guest Scorpioness

I had wondered myself if B-3 (niacin) was collagen producing... I take it internally and get a nice flush... red, warm and tingly.... it's kind of a cool feeling actually. :-) It's obvious the blood really starts circulating during a niacin flush.... it felt like it COULD be collagen producing.... but I am not positive about that. :-)

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Scorpion Vixen, you always find good stuff smile.gif. I bought Almay's Kinetin at the store after reading your post about Kinerase (I can't afford that). 100 Niacin 100mg Yeat free Vegetarian Tablets were only $3 at the store today and I bought them too. 10 minutes after I took one, I got a sharp hunger pang that lasted for about a 3 minutes. Then my ears felt hot and my feet itched and so did my joints. They are pink now. This is suposed to be normal and temporary. I suppose it is a good thing, cause I'd like to increase the circulation to my face. I'm also going to disolve it in water and apply it topically.

Update: It has been around an hour since I took the niacin tablet. It gives me a lot of energy. I also crushed and disolved a 100mg tablet in 1 g water and applied it to my face. It feels more moiturized, like after using an AHA. I tasted the tablet/water liquid and it is a bit sour, but not bitingly so like glycolic. (ha ha using my tongue as pH paper ) Anyway my face isn't irritated. I'll keep applying topical niacin until the TCA comes. Yep Scorpy, I kinda like the Niacin flush feeling too. Maybe we'll be niacin junkies.

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Guest Scorpioness

Footprint... lolol!!! I already am a niacin junkie.... the flush feeling is like a jacuzzi for me.... it's very relaxing!

There was a poster on another board awhile back who said that a spray called Naturally Clear would help prevent breakouts and kept her skin looking more even toned... and apparently it is a niacinamide spray. I know some people had good luck keeping their acne in check with niacinamide cream.... I don't recall the vitamin ever being discussed in terms of the reduction of scarring before.... every little bit helps though, as far as I am concerned. Keep us posted about how the niacin works for hyperpigmentation also! I may need to use it after TCA CROSS.

As far as the Kinerase is concerned, it is great stuff! It seems like it was made for my skin. I got a big tube for under 40 bucks on e-bay... it was a great deal. My skin needs moisture and this is the most velvety soft, non greasy, sinks right in moisterizer I have ever used... it works beautiful under my mineral makeup and it improves the texture of my skin a lot. I am not sure if the Almay Kinetin has the N6-furfuryladenine as an ingredient does it?

I believe you are in Southern CA like me... is that correct?

:-)

Smiles,

Scorpion

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Hi guys,

I found a relatively cheap source of easily digestible amino acids and vitamins! Body builders take them. I bought 3lbs Vanilla MUS-L BLAST from rite-aid just now. Seems like good stuff. Tastes okay. I like the smell though.

Right now I'm prepping for doing a TCA peel. Loading up on vitamin C, B vitamins, Alpha Lipoic acid and now this weightlifting formula. I'm going to do the peel in around 2 weeks. My current plan is to make a 10% solution by the weight/volume method and apply repeated coats until I get to the papillary dermis. I can heal at home over Christmas break.

I hope to get rid of pigmentation and some rolling scars. If nothing horrible happens. I'll also use a toothpick to put more coats in what remains of my ice picks. If I'm not happy with the results, I'll do 100% TCA later.

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footprint:

Please be VERY careful with the TCA! My bad experience with TCA has led me to believe that one should not apply this to healthy skin. Seems like it's the rave for spot treatment, but when you peel down to the papillary dermis, there is a strong risk for some kind of irregular skin texture and permanent loss of pigmentation and permanent sun sensitivity, worsening of the scar, hyperpigmentation, etc., etc. I hope you don't think I'm lecturing you, but I guess you can tell I'm not a proponent of TCA.

On a separate note, how long have you been using Olay Regenerist? Has it helped to fill in any scars or improve skin texture, yet? It's touted to help wrinkles, but I think that if a topical is helping build collagen then maybe it can help with scars.

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I got carried away by the TCA craze, I WANT MY SKIN TO BE THE WAY IT WAS SO BADLY(don't we all sad.gif ) that I lost my judgement. Thank you.

Regenerist works well for me. I've been using it for a couple months - three months at least - around the time I started Mandelic. Regenerist,mandelic, and vinegar have helped my icepicks especially. They've blending into the surroundings and look like rolling scars/orange peelish now. I suppose I should be really happy, and I am grateful to regenerist and mandelic, but I want more too sad.gif.

So now, I'm also looking into fermenting things. Yogurt, with its lactic acid does wonders for my face - and it's yummy too. I was thinking of mixing wheatgrass with enzymes to digest them, fermenting that with a yogurt culture, and then adding emu oil as a carrier. I did a search on this. See what skinbio has to say about La Mer. I'm going to try and find out what's so great about sunflowers, kelp and eucalyptus. I bet alfalfa is pretty similar to wheat grass, and it sort amakes sense. They are supposed to play sounds during the fermentation process to make things work better. Make it shakes things up gently... I dunno, it doesn't seem like it would hurt to try.

maybe sunflower seed sprouts?

okay... look what skinbio has to say about la Mer

Creme de la Mer

Creme de la Mer (Estee Lauder) is a fermentation product that was invented by a German rocket scientist, Max Huber, but it is basically a throwback to European peasant therapies. It is a combination of kelp, alfalfa, sunflowers, eucalyptus, vitamins and minerals which is fermented for five months while enzymes break down the plants into small fragments.

The source of the idea is from European peasants who would use fermented plants (often the silage used for cow feed) to put on wounds. The fermenting plants become very warm and a handful of the plants or silage would be put on wounds and held in place with a bandage. There is no proof that these methods actually increase skin repair but the heat from the fermenting plants would increase blood flow to the injured skin and probably increase healing.

Creme de la Mer sells for $155 for 2 ounces.

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Renowned nutritionist Gary Null alleges that a severely restrictive, whole foods diet can--and will--reverse acne scars, however I don't have the discipline for it. I think it's kind of funny, actually, that I am willing to try all kinds of topical treatments and nutritional supplements to cure my scars but I will draw the line at ingesting nothing but whole foods. I try to eat right now (at least, most of the time) but I just can't seem to restrict myself to the degree that Null says is necessary to make one's scars "disappear".

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johnnery: what are the foods?? doubt i could do it though im 16 and my diets of mostly junk food jus wanna know though

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The foods Gary Null refers to are things like lightly steamed and raw vegetables, high-quality protein (the kind you find in beans and whey), herb teas and things like that. In other words, a strict vegetarian diet. I just can't do it. I like all that stuff, but not every day. He said it would take at least a year to reverse one's acne scars, perhaps even longer, IF one follows that regimen to the letter. Here's his website if you want to post a question about this to him:

http://www.garynull.com/%5b/url''>http://www.garynull.com/%5b/url' target='_blank'>]http://www.garynull.com/

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the dude talks about natural living yet he looks like he was just in a tanning bed for an hour, how natural is that? :/

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erbium yag seems do do a lot for wrinkles. Can your derm get ahold of any before and after pics for scarring?

I'm growing the wheatgrass right now smile.gif. Read about how the soaking water can be used as a fermented drink too. We'll see how that goes. It's called rejuvelac.

Just in case anybody might try it, do not go on a fast with protein powders only. You might die if you do that.

Also, I looked a little into fermentation and I'm going to try leaving little pots of milk, milk & sugar, flour and water, flour and sugar out, hoping to catch different bacteria. I'll throw the things that smell off, and keep the things that seem good.

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