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This product is a complete non-sense.

If DHT is causing acne, why would people on this forum complain about getting acne ever since they started DHT blocking med, called "Propecia" ?

Well this statement is a bit naive. First of all, Clearogen does not contain Propecia, it contains saw palmetto and efa's to block the dht. Although they may have the same goal, they're not the same substance. There have been studies showing that saw palmetto blocks both type 1 and type 2 of 5 alpha reductase whereas fernistride (ingredient in Propecia) has been shown to only block type 2, and also that saw palmetto inhibits testestorone more effectively that fernistride.

Second, Clearogen is applied topically, Propecia internally correct? With any drugs there are going to be side effects, perhaps those taking Propecia did have reduced DHT but the drug messed up other systems internally that increased inflammatory responses, etc. and hence acne.

Finally, for these people that developed acne after taking Propecia, did the Propecia at least have any effect on their hair, reduced hairloss or growth? If not perhaps, Propecia just simply doesn't work them.

You brought up a good point, but took quite a jump in logic. With all that said, regardless, what's the point of so blantly dismissing a product without even trying it out especially if others are having positive results? However, I believe any results people are seeing in the first weeks have to be due to the SA and time-released BP rather than the anti-DHT ingredients since those are supposed to take longer to have an effect.

There is no scientific proof that Saw Palmetto blocks both type1 and type2 of dht, and you're the one who took quite a jump in logic by reading some unproven stuff that are all over the internet. Also, those who experienced acne by taking Propecia of course had some effect on their hair.

B4 criticizing someone, learn about yourself, first!

*Sigh*... Actually, the saw palmetto info is from published studies. You can check the Research section of the Clearogen website for a start. True, any empirical study for any scientific inquiry can never ultimately "prove" anything, but strongly suggest, but that's a matter of semantics. Umm no, its not type 1 or type 2 dht. Type 1, type 2 refers to the enzyme that converts testosterone to dht. Regardless, this product is working for me and others so far. Come back when you have a stronger argument or clearer motive...

Do you actually believe what's said on that commercial website? If I go like you, I can come up with thousands of theories on acne. LOL.

What makes you think it's the product that's working while you're doing so many things at once. And it's been only 2 weeks you been on it? Maybe it's all in your head. I HIGHLY doubt that it's the product.

[MOD EDIT]

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i think you should remove yourself from this thread since u dont like this product, even without trying it. hmmm why are even posting in this thread...

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This product is a complete non-sense.

If DHT is causing acne, why would people on this forum complain about getting acne ever since they started DHT blocking med, called "Propecia" ?

Well this statement is a bit naive. First of all, Clearogen does not contain Propecia, it contains saw palmetto and efa's to block the dht. Although they may have the same goal, they're not the same substance. There have been studies showing that saw palmetto blocks both type 1 and type 2 of 5 alpha reductase whereas fernistride (ingredient in Propecia) has been shown to only block type 2, and also that saw palmetto inhibits testestorone more effectively that fernistride.

Second, Clearogen is applied topically, Propecia internally correct? With any drugs there are going to be side effects, perhaps those taking Propecia did have reduced DHT but the drug messed up other systems internally that increased inflammatory responses, etc. and hence acne.

Finally, for these people that developed acne after taking Propecia, did the Propecia at least have any effect on their hair, reduced hairloss or growth? If not perhaps, Propecia just simply doesn't work them.

You brought up a good point, but took quite a jump in logic. With all that said, regardless, what's the point of so blantly dismissing a product without even trying it out especially if others are having positive results? However, I believe any results people are seeing in the first weeks have to be due to the SA and time-released BP rather than the anti-DHT ingredients since those are supposed to take longer to have an effect.

There is no scientific proof that Saw Palmetto blocks both type1 and type2 of dht, and you're the one who took quite a jump in logic by reading some unproven stuff that are all over the internet. Also, those who experienced acne by taking Propecia of course had some effect on their hair.

B4 criticizing someone, learn about yourself, first!

*Sigh*... Actually, the saw palmetto info is from published studies. You can check the Research section of the Clearogen website for a start. True, any empirical study for any scientific inquiry can never ultimately "prove" anything, but strongly suggest, but that's a matter of semantics. Umm no, its not type 1 or type 2 dht. Type 1, type 2 refers to the enzyme that converts testosterone to dht. Regardless, this product is working for me and others so far. Come back when you have a stronger argument or clearer motive...

Do you actually believe what's said on that commercial website? If I go like you, I can come up with thousands of theories on acne. LOL.

What makes you think it's the product that's working while you're doing so many things at once. And it's been only 2 weeks you been on it? Maybe it's all in your head. I HIGHLY doubt that it's the product.

[MOD EDIT]

Yeah, I don't believe stuff that is in research medical journals either as their website references. I'm not sure why you feel so strongly about something you haven't even tried. This is getting quite silly really...

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I found a link on another messageboard which might be interesting.

http://www.centerchem.com/PDFs/Regu-Seb%20prod%20descrip.pdf

Its a study of a gel which contains saw palmetto and sesame seed in oily skin. Its short so I'll let you guys read it and decide for yourself. I'll summarize it best I can.

A gel was tested with different concentrations on saw palmetto, and at its highest percentage tested (1%) it inhibited dht 35%

There was a 46% reduction in lesions after 3 months on average, with visable results after one month.

This gives clues that if anti-dht compounds work, they will take time, as in 8-12 weeks to really have maximum effect. Its not going to shut down your oil immediately.

Also, after all was said and done, saw palmetto wasn't enough to clear acne completely. However my guess is it would definately help with bp and other anti-dht compounds.

A few things worth noting, I stumbled across this pdf on a board. So I don't know the details of this experiment and how valid it is. In the study they tested it out on 10 people, which is not optimal. Also, it looks like it could be part of a company's ad campaign for all I know, so who knows how valid it is. But judge for yourself.

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Does this stuff even have Saw Palmetto in it? I find it suspicious that they say it does on the website and then its not in the ingredients on the actual bottle.

And this....

Name: Mary

Question:

"Does your product containing saw palmetto interfer with the effectiveness of birth control pill or nuvaring?"

"Clearogen does not contain saw palmetto and the anti-DHT natural ingredients are only effective on the skin. These topical ingredients will not interfer with the effectiveness of birth control pills."

http://www.clearogen.com/questions/saw-palmetto.html

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This product is a complete non-sense.

If DHT is causing acne, why would people on this forum complain about getting acne ever since they started DHT blocking med, called "Propecia" ?

Well this statement is a bit naive. First of all, Clearogen does not contain Propecia, it contains saw palmetto and efa's to block the dht. Although they may have the same goal, they're not the same substance. There have been studies showing that saw palmetto blocks both type 1 and type 2 of 5 alpha reductase whereas fernistride (ingredient in Propecia) has been shown to only block type 2, and also that saw palmetto inhibits testestorone more effectively that fernistride.

Second, Clearogen is applied topically, Propecia internally correct? With any drugs there are going to be side effects, perhaps those taking Propecia did have reduced DHT but the drug messed up other systems internally that increased inflammatory responses, etc. and hence acne.

Finally, for these people that developed acne after taking Propecia, did the Propecia at least have any effect on their hair, reduced hairloss or growth? If not perhaps, Propecia just simply doesn't work them.

You brought up a good point, but took quite a jump in logic. With all that said, regardless, what's the point of so blantly dismissing a product without even trying it out especially if others are having positive results? However, I believe any results people are seeing in the first weeks have to be due to the SA and time-released BP rather than the anti-DHT ingredients since those are supposed to take longer to have an effect.

There is no scientific proof that Saw Palmetto blocks both type1 and type2 of dht, and you're the one who took quite a jump in logic by reading some unproven stuff that are all over the internet. Also, those who experienced acne by taking Propecia of course had some effect on their hair.

B4 criticizing someone, learn about yourself, first!

*Sigh*... Actually, the saw palmetto info is from published studies. You can check the Research section of the Clearogen website for a start. True, any empirical study for any scientific inquiry can never ultimately "prove" anything, but strongly suggest, but that's a matter of semantics. Umm no, its not type 1 or type 2 dht. Type 1, type 2 refers to the enzyme that converts testosterone to dht. Regardless, this product is working for me and others so far. Come back when you have a stronger argument or clearer motive...

If Saw Palmetto had that strong effect, why would people take prescritipn medication for hairloss.

OMG, do you actually believe what's said on Clearogen website? You kind of people make it so easy to rip-off.

You've been using Clearogen for what...2 weeks and you say it's Clearogen that's making your face better? There are sooo many things you're taking right now: Paleo Diet, Fish oil, Zinc, Multi-vitamin, Probiotic. It's not even scientific to conclude that Clearogen is doing something to you.

As far as I know, Saw Palmetto's effect on dht is not proven. Some studies say there was no difference with placebo. Also, what makes you think applying Saw Palmetto topically has any effect on skin? [MOD EDIT]

[MOD EDIT]

And give me links that have published studies on Saw Palmetto. Hopefully the site is not some commercial site trying to rip you kind of people.

*Sigh*

I already replied to this but I think it was deleted (as was one of Danzel's replies to your post) after you went back and edited the above post. Not sure if that's how this forum works.

First of all, the research on saw palmetto (and EFA's) is from published medical research journals as the Clearogen website references. Its not a ripoff if there is a money-back guarantee. Second, yes there are various hairloss products that also use saw palmetto. I'm flattered by your interest in my skin, and yes I hope the other things I'm doing also are having a positive effect and I can't quantify to what degree each one is helping. I do know that I was doing the other things for over a month without any noticeable difference yet. Within days after applying Clearogen, my skin definitely has improved (as it has for others in this thread) and I simply reported those results but it definitely hasn't cured me yet. I think its safe to conclude Clearogen is helping though. The other alternative is everything else just happened to suddenly make drastic improvements at the same time I started Clearogen. There isn't much info on Clearogen so I thought I'd share my results here. If you actually went back and read my posts you'd see I believe its because of the time-released BP and not the anti-DHT ingredients yet as those are supposed to take more time.

This is really getting quite silly to be honest and hopefully my last reply to you. I don't understand what your motives are here (I can speculate though) and why you'd feel so strongly opposed to Clearogen without even trying it, its quite weird. I also saw your other thread hating on fish oil also. Hopefully, you'll find something that works for your acne. Good luck!

EDIT:

I was referring to post 178, it was temporarily removed, is back now.

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I found a link on another messageboard which might be interesting.

http://www.centerchem.com/PDFs/Regu-Seb%20prod%20descrip.pdf

Its a study of a gel which contains saw palmetto and sesame seed in oily skin. Its short so I'll let you guys read it and decide for yourself. I'll summarize it best I can.

A gel was tested with different concentrations on saw palmetto, and at its highest percentage tested (1%) it inhibited dht 35%

There was a 46% reduction in lesions after 3 months on average, with visable results after one month.

This gives clues that if anti-dht compounds work, they will take time, as in 8-12 weeks to really have maximum effect. Its not going to shut down your oil immediately.

Also, after all was said and done, saw palmetto wasn't enough to clear acne completely. However my guess is it would definately help with bp and other anti-dht compounds.

A few things worth noting, I stumbled across this pdf on a board. So I don't know the details of this experiment and how valid it is. In the study they tested it out on 10 people, which is not optimal. Also, it looks like it could be part of a company's ad campaign for all I know, so who knows how valid it is. But judge for yourself.

Thanks for the info! I agree, it is going to take time for the anti-DHT stuff to work. Any of the hairloss products also using anti-DHT ingredients are supposed to take a few months for results.

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Just wanted to tell you that if certain members (ahem, wink wink) are rude and inflammatory, to report their posts and then ignore them. Mods really appreciate when the report button is used properly because it helps us catch rude people and trolls. Y'all keep doing your thing in here - if it works it works, no questions asked! Keep it up guys.

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i think you should remove yourself from this thread since u dont like this product, even without trying it. hmmm why are even posting in this thread...

I just wanted to follow up on TGrl's comments (and the quoted post) by saying that people do have a right to question and disagree with posted information, and anyone posting on this message board should be prepared for that.

However, it is against acne.org rules to make personal attacks or flame other members. Anywhere you see [MOD EDIT] it means that the moderators have removed inflammatory language.

Sorry about the appearing/disappearing posts .... we were trying to figure out how to leave the argument intact (since it is legitimate) while removing the most offensive language.

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i think you should remove yourself from this thread since u dont like this product, even without trying it. hmmm why are even posting in this thread...

I just wanted to follow up on TGrl's comments (and the quoted post) by saying that people do have a right to question and disagree with posted information, and anyone posting on this message board should be prepared for that.

However, it is against acne.org rules to make personal attacks or flame other members. Anywhere you see [MOD EDIT] it means that the moderators have removed inflammatory language.

Sorry about the appearing/disappearing posts .... we were trying to figure out how to leave the argument intact (since it is legitimate) while removing the most offensive language.

Thanks for the clarification from both of you! I agree, kekehuhu can maybe make a valid argument that saw palmetto isn't effective (if links/sources were given) and there is also evidence that it may help. This could be an interesting debate if more knowlege was shared with a more respectable/less personal tone from all of us. Lets all keep it clean...

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Dude with the mean attitude... I started Clearogen last week, and 7 days later my skin has improved quite amazingly... trust me when I tell you this, not only can I feel the results on my face but others are noticing a huge improvement in my skin and have told me about it. This is definitely the last acne product I will have to try *high hopes*, I am hoping the results of this product last forever.

My skin is not 100% clear because of what's left from acne (red marks etc) and that will take 6 months to 1 year to completely go away if no more acne pops up on my face. My skin is still oily as well but I think it's going to take a month or two to reduce oil production. But before I started using clearogen and after 1 week there is a 100% improvement. I am not sure if this works for everyone or not but this is the only product that has worked like a charm for me. Other than accutane, I have tried everything!!!

Sorry if I sound rude at all but I am just happy with my results and someone bashing a product without trying it first seems kinda moronic. You're a complete dumb4$$. I know many others saw results with proactiv and all that other crap but I didn't, and this works for me!

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yes i understand kekehuhu has an objection to saw palmetto, but dude, like hows it affecting you if we're trying it.. your saying were wasting our money and all.. but at the end of the day its MY decision not YOURS, so whatever your gonna say is a complete waste because I decide what i try, not YOU. its my money, not yours...Good luck with whatever your trying.

:rolleyes:

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I found something that may (or may not) be of interest.

I found this link on google

http://mend.endojournals.org/cgi/reprint/19/5/1200.pdf

In a nutshell it says that retinoids inhibit androgen gene expression.

Someone with a science degree needs to read through the study because its heavy with scientific graphs and lingo I don't fully comprehend.

As I see it, retinoids work by indirectly inhibiting androgens on the skin. In theory, clearogen should be more effective in that it targets the source of the problem without (Hopefully) triggering any other nonessential receptors.

But maybe you guys already knew all of this already.

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I just wanted to let you guys know...

I was browsing other herbs like green tea that reduce androgen and inhibit DHT such as green tea has, and came across another one called

Beta-Sitosterol

So it's said to be 100x more effective than saw palmetto, so I decided to look more into it

Oddly enough I came back to one website

clearogen! :)

So thought you guys may like that. It's interesting how it also contains green tea.

Have you guys ever thought about supplementing with the ingredients directly, together?

I'm interested in Beta-Sitosterol since green tea is working effectively with the androgen. My oil production is decreasing, so I may combine them. I keep reading that Beta-Sitosterol is the most effective out of all, so has anyone tried using it before?

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http://www.healthboards.com/boards/showthr...0148&page=3

Check this out

Beta Sitosterol - Active ingredient in the below herbs. It's 3,000x more potent than Saw Palmetto (stronger than Avodart?)

Saw Palmetto (Permixon)- equally as effective as Proscar / Finesteride. Some find that it's a good alternative to Spironolactone as well.

Stinging Nettle

Pygeum Africanum

* These will also decrease cholesterol levels which is great because our bodies use cholesterol to make these sometimes highly pesky steriod hormones!

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As a budding scientist, those claims saying beta sitosterol is 1000X more potent can be misleading. What exactly does that mean? It takes 1000 times less by weight to achieve the same effects? It binds to the dht receptor with 1000X affinity? Is 1000X a good thing? That also might mean it would stop dht conversion completely, which might not be a good thing. What I'm trying to say is don't take what you read on the internet at face value. I've googled all the same research articles as well, and while they do seem to be effective in some studies at inhibiting dht, nothing shows really how effective they are topically. Are they even soluble enough to pass through layers of skin to reach the oil glands? Remember, its always good to be skeptical.

P.S. I'm not knocking clearogen, I'm using it too. But I'm still hesitant to call this the miracle cure, thats for sure.

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I just wanted to let you guys know...

I was browsing other herbs like green tea that reduce androgen and inhibit DHT such as green tea has, and came across another one called

Beta-Sitosterol

So it's said to be 100x more effective than saw palmetto, so I decided to look more into it

Oddly enough I came back to one website

clearogen! :)

So thought you guys may like that. It's interesting how it also contains green tea.

Have you guys ever thought about supplementing with the ingredients directly, together?

I'm interested in Beta-Sitosterol since green tea is working effectively with the androgen. My oil production is decreasing, so I may combine them. I keep reading that Beta-Sitosterol is the most effective out of all, so has anyone tried using it before?

Thanks for all the info! See http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=1733637

Apparently alternativista has been taking Beta-Sitosterol and it's in actually in saw palmetto. I've been meaning to get around to look into it further. I might start taking saw palmetto internally again also, but want to learn more about the side effects first.

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I just got my Clearogen face lotion today. I cant wait to try it. I have high expectations for this product. I hope it doesnt let me down. I'll keep you posted.

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I just got my Clearogen face lotion today. I cant wait to try it. I have high expectations for this product. I hope it doesnt let me down. I'll keep you posted.

Glad to have you on the clearogen wagon :)

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As a budding scientist, those claims saying beta sitosterol is 1000X more potent can be misleading. What exactly does that mean? It takes 1000 times less by weight to achieve the same effects? It binds to the dht receptor with 1000X affinity? Is 1000X a good thing? That also might mean it would stop dht conversion completely, which might not be a good thing. What I'm trying to say is don't take what you read on the internet at face value. I've googled all the same research articles as well, and while they do seem to be effective in some studies at inhibiting dht, nothing shows really how effective they are topically. Are they even soluble enough to pass through layers of skin to reach the oil glands? Remember, its always good to be skeptical.

P.S. I'm not knocking clearogen, I'm using it too. But I'm still hesitant to call this the miracle cure, thats for sure.

Wow very good point, we seem to get wrapped up in it that we forget to question it. I like how you think. That's a great question, i guess it's something we have to experiment ourselves, or try to find more in depth studies. Do you know more about it? Please do share if you find anything, and I hope clearogen really works with all these ingredients too you know? That would be the ultimate topical!

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Errr, I actually have a new break-out on my chin and on the side of my eyebrow. Do you guys think it's just old stuff coming to the surface? :/

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I just wanted to let you guys know...

I was browsing other herbs like green tea that reduce androgen and inhibit DHT such as green tea has, and came across another one called

Beta-Sitosterol

So it's said to be 100x more effective than saw palmetto, so I decided to look more into it

Oddly enough I came back to one website

clearogen! :)

So thought you guys may like that. It's interesting how it also contains green tea.

Have you guys ever thought about supplementing with the ingredients directly, together?

I'm interested in Beta-Sitosterol since green tea is working effectively with the androgen. My oil production is decreasing, so I may combine them. I keep reading that Beta-Sitosterol is the most effective out of all, so has anyone tried using it before?

Thanks for all the info! See http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...t&p=1733637

Apparently alternativista has been taking Beta-Sitosterol and it's in actually in saw palmetto. I've been meaning to get around to look into it further. I might start taking saw palmetto internally again also, but want to learn more about the side effects first.

Wow great post! It looks like it's working for alternativista too! This is interesting, thanks for that link

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Heres the thing about taking saw palmetto or beta sitosterol internally, while it makes sense that it could help prevent acne in theory no one really knows how it works in the body. Sure, there are studies which show that it helps with prostate issues most likely by inhibiting dht. The pills at any vitamin store or market are prepared with this treatment in mind. The problem is no one has done studies at how these drugs circulate in the body. Some drugs are meant to concentrate/target certain tissues. Saw palmetto may just tend to concentrate in the prostate, who knows or maybe somewhere else. Or it may be able to reach the skin, but what would be the effective dosage? 1 pill, 20 pills? Also, taking a little saw palmetto probably wont hurt you, but taking higher doses could screw you up by tinkering with your overall hormone levels. At least with topical applications, it is highly unlikely to exhibit any systemic effects.

I would maybe try zinc supplementation first before trying sp or sitosterol. Zinc is also good at regulating androgen level by controlling enzyme cofactors like nadph. In fact, look into the nicomide pill. Its a relatively new acne pill that is essentially a high dose of niacinamide and zinc. Niacinamide at 4% has been shown to be pretty effective against acne topically so it makes sense that it might work orally. It is supposedly supposed to be almost as good as antibiotics with fewer risks. I was on it for 3 months and it didn't work for me, but it does work well for people who have mild cases of acne. Google nicomide and find out more. Also, if you do decide to try that for supplementation, find the ingredients separately instead of having a doctor prescribe it for you unless you have decent insurance. Otherwise its like 80 bucks for a months supply for 2 over the counter vitamins.

P.S. I've looked up every study I can find pertaining to the issue, but the thing is there just isn't enough info. All we can do is keep with it and hope it works for us. The only piece of advice I can give is give it a good chance, because while the bp might work for some people pretty quickly, I would imagine the dht ingredients are going to take at least a few weeks to a month to even start kickin in. And I wouldn't be surprised if there was a solid breakout period. Retinoids have a long ass initial breakout, and as I cited before their mechanism might be related. Also, people who take drugs like spiro have reported initial breakouts as well. Just hang in there and cross your fingers!

p.p.s I've been using clearogen for a week now. Nothing noteworthy to report. If anything my face is worse, and just as oily as usual. I've been using bpconsistantly for years, so its not like my face has to get used to it either.

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