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AntzinPantz

Are we kidding ourselves?

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I have to ask this as since I've been visiting here I feel like I'm on a merry go round. Several treatments exist already that were once the next best thing yet turned out not to work or even make people's scars worse. Other gentler treatments exist, but hardly seem to make much improvement at all and there are the new treatments which are expensive and even though they may help, the improvements are once again minimal. People using creams and potions hardly see any improvement either it seems, it makes me laugh the amount of crap some people are regularly putting on their faces yet still have had little benefit.

Are we all idiots?

Are we all clinging onto tiny improvements trying to kid ourselves that the treatments are working.

Everytime someone asks for someone to post who's had satisfactory improvement from a treatment there are no replies. Occasinally people talk of up to maybe 40% improvement, but even they seem very rare.

I don't want to be negative or have a go at anyone, but I'm starting to feel that Isolagen is yet another false hope and I'm getting really depressed. Ironically CO2 laser resurfacing which many people roundly slag off has been the only treatment so far to give me a definite solid improvement. It's had its drawbacks and my skin is far from okay, but so far its propven its worth more than Isolagen. My initial estimate of improvement with Isolagen may have been too high, probably because of the swelling that you get from regular injections. I'd say its only really 10 or 20% better if I can even measure it as a proper percentage.

So I'm appealling for people who've had certain treatments for their deeper scars (not shallow surface marks) to post here and tell me what your REAL improvement has been and whether or not you are genuinely happy.

I think this is important as I'll bet there is no-one who can honestly hand on heart say their improvement has been anywhere near enough for them.

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I've had one subcision/N-lite and two seperate Artecoll injections into my deep scars. Improvement 30% to 50%. My numerous shallow scars weren't improved at all by this.

I'm still not happy w/ it. My perspective is, if you fill up 40% of the Grand Canyon, you are still left w/ a huge canyon. Maybe thats seeing the glass half empty, but this is my FACE were talking about....

I haven't given up on treatments yet, there are several I haven't tried.

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You are right, all these topical dont work, even the vinegar method, my face seems to look ok for awhile but today my face is red and looking like crap (how it used to look) topical arnt permanent.

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Hi,

Did you look at TCA CROSS. I have the document. you need to pay 30$ to view it online. If you nned more info let me know. i can email to you. The pics that are shown are awesome. You can clearly see the improvemnt. Its safe and wont cause more scars. it wont mess up with your skin texture like CO2 does.

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I have had subcision and two sessions of N-Lite.

I did get some improvement, though I am hesitant to put a percentage on it. Maybe 25%? I was happy with the results at the time, but I think that some of the improvement may have been due to swelling from trauma to the skin (as others have mentioned). Currently, I am looking for something that will improve the appearance much more dramatically.

I also had CO2 laser done several years ago ('99) and while it gave a decent improvement for a while (Maybe 30-40%) I have aged and had collagen lost since and the improvements did not seem to be permanent for me.

At this point I am considering having needling done. I had one scar needled and I was impressed with the results though I think it needs more work. I estimate 25% improvement from that.

I have spoken to a couple of highly regarded Plastic Surgeons in my area and they both said that there was absolutely nothing they could do for me. One of them recommended a Dr. in N.Y. - that he does skin grafting. The other one recommended that I see a highly skilled Dr. who performs many dermabrasions. I don't want to get either of those done since there is potential for scarring. One other Dr. suggested fat transfer but wanted $5,000 for it and could not estimate a definite percentage of improvement.

If I get to the point of desparation I will probably do CO2 laser again. It was an extremely painful process and I had a lot of downtime from it. It's also quite expensive. There is also a risk of further scarring with it.

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Oursfan,

Did you ever read that post from Marc on Voy - he did needling and thought it helped, but I guess not enough for him, so he went to a Mexican clinic and got Bio-Alcamid. He said he doesn't worry about his face anymore, its completely smooth, and now he's gone from these boards. I don't know what kind of scars he had - that'll make a big difference.

Anyway, my thinking is one more round of conventional treatments Smoothbeam/subcision) next year, and then I may fly out to San Diego and get Bio- alcamid. At least I would test a couple of scars to see how it looks, and then decide whether its worth doing the whole face. The final results are immediate, so I should know what to think. Just an idea right now.

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I had one TCA cross TX and one subsicion TX and some of my pitted scars are gone, others improved. I've had about 30% improvement of my scars and I think topicals have helped my skin over all, but not the scars. Whose to ay the topicals don't help the skin over the long term.

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If any of these treatments actually worked well for deep scars then no one in hollywood would have acne scars. Thats simply not the case though, some of them have millions and their face still looks scarred.

The bottom line IMO is that the medical community still regards the treatment of acne scars as purely cosmetic and therefore there is little research on this condition and therefore little progress and even littler improvements in patients.

I think that cancer and AIDS and all the other killers out there are terrible... however its peoples fears that get improvement in these areas. Normal people are scared of AIDS and cancer because they have a chance of getting them. Not many people think about acne scars every day or week because most dont even have serious acne.

NO research = no progress

most of the treatments available for scarring weren`t developed for scarring and are simply cross overs from wrinkle treatments and other problems that people are scared of.

If we are seriously expecting miracle cures from a scientific community that isn`t seriously researching this field with any vigor then yes we are kidding ourselves.

Dont forget there is a whole industry paying their bills with our hopes of having normal skin, they will distribute as many press releases and claims as it takes to get you to part with your cash, even if they are huge exaggerations or in some cases out and out lies.

Treatments that damage the skin and hope it repairs the scars are in my opinion old hat and can make the skin worse. Treatments that try and target collegen growth to fill up a deep scar are equally futile. We`re using outdated technology, plain and simple. Does anyone care? only if you have scars then you care....i never gave a damn about people with acne scars until i got them.....its a selfish ignorant world, but thats human nature.

Lathering all these creams on our faces is just funding these companies to advertise to more people. None of these scar creams work, most of them just reduce redness and get rid or a layer or two of skin...

i`m in a bad mood now, i`m going to kick someones ass

good day

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Thanks for the responses. I don't want to generate a lot of negativity as i know it certainly doesn't help, but I'm trying to be realist in my situation. One thing that does annoy me is a lack of honesty and integrity in the dermatological field. I get the distinct impression that most doctors go into this field for the money rather than the desire to help (Dr Chu excepted).

If I can't get any more improvement then I can deal with the truth as if I'd been told any terrible news by a doctor. No I get told before I part with my cash that a 90% improvement is achievable and not to worry. Then when it goes wrong or hasn't worked well I get told, "well what do you expect?"

I was so depressed after my last CO2 treatment even though it did give me an obvious improvement it was just so far short of 90% that i felt like I'd been outrightly lied to.

I think that the mechanics of skin biology are well understood. The reason for scarring is understood, but for some reason the research just hasn't been done to tackle turning scar tissue into soft normal skin.

I've decided to try a little experiment on part of my own skin. When I had an operation on my thigh it left a small scar that was hard scar tissue. The doctor told me to regularly rub and pinch the scar so that the tissue would break up and settle down. After about a year of regularly rubbing and pinching the skin it did actually soften up and lie flat. So I'm going to rub and pinch a small area of scars on my face. I could make it worse, but I think I have to try and see what happens.

If it does help significantly then the dermatologists aren't going to make much money of us anymore are they?

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Please don't lose all hope because 20 years ago there was nothing but the CO2 laser and now there are some other options. I think in a few years there will be fillers and lasers that work even better than what's avilable today. For very deep scars you really need some sort of filler, but subsicion may help raise them some to help it along.

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Well, my results have been great with needling. Some of my scars were pretty deep; I had some pits, and huge 1/2 inch dent on my forehead, chickenpox scars, and a pretty bad boxcar on my cheek. My boxcar is pretty much totally gone; you can see it slightly when I don't have on makeup, but only at the bottom; the rest is totally skin level. The huge one on my forehead is pretty much filled in; not totally, but you have to get on top of me to see it, and again....with makeup on, you cannot see it. My pits have almost totally filled in (they look more like large pores than pits, and are improving every day), chickenpox scars have improved greatly also.

I have done a TCA peel, V-Beam, 2 sessions of needling, and various topicals. I really am quite happy. One thing working in my favor is that I have tough skin and can tolerate things that help scar removal.

So yes, I would definately say there is hope!!! Many times you have to treat different scars with different methods.....but I believe there is hope. I'm not big on the fillers because I keep hearing (mostly) negative reports. I may go for a tiny touch-up in January for needling.....not sure yet. I may not need it for some scarred pores and I may do one last needling on the chickenpox scar on my chin. I feel like slow improvement is better than NO improvement. I am very happy to do peels and use a SB serum and see improvements over a year's time than to not see ANY improvement at all.

Don't be discouraged, Antz.....hang in there. There are enough people who have had good results in various procedures to give us all hope. I'm certainly one of those people. My skin is far from perfect, but at least over the past 2 years I've made steady progress in improving my scars, and at least my worst scars are almost totally skin level. smile.gif

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I for one seem to get over excited with my results - only to get disappointed once the swelling is over.

As some of you are aware, I am a 20ish a day smoker - I am also 40, so my collagen 'aint what it used to be.. I have been doing some research into how smoking impairs wound healing ... I am giving up smoking on the 13th of November - if I was a non smoker, I'm pretty sure I would have 60% improvement by now.

My excisions haven't healed too well (because of the smoking) - I have 1 NEW scar that is 1 inch long, on my cheek - it looks like a knife wound and is indented and the line is thick.

This year, I've had 2 needling sessions, 2 subcisions, 4 NLites and 2 punch excisions.. (plus regular lactic peels and many other topicals..)

Even though I am very unsatisfied at my results, overall, I would still say I have had at least 25% improvements overall - not an awful lot for the amount of work I have had done this year - (My skin tone has improved a lot though.. and I am happy about that).

Antz - I am sorry that Isolagen isn't proving to be as great as we all first thought, but there are other procedures. Please try to remain positive (although I understand with the expense you have been put through and all the fake promises, it's not too easy).

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sad.gif

I am with you Antz....

Weird, I got depressed today about this very issue and then turned on the computer and, well, it certainly looks like I am not alone...

I feel lied to as well.... My smoothbeam doc told me 90%-100% improvement... I didn't get even close to that. Then she says to me (after I spent $3000), "well, It's not like I have an eraser - what do you expect, I can't erase your scars..." I didn't say it 'cause I guess I am too damn polite but I thought "Bitch, that's not what you told me during our initial consultation when you were talking me into giving you $2200." She specifically told me she could get the scars to go away during my consultation. She said those exact words "I can get these scars to go away for you." Now that she has taken almost $3000 from me it's "oh I don't have an eraser... what did you expect???" But I suppose I wanted to believe it so it's my fault as well. Deep inside I knew I was being lied to, but I needed to hear it and I needed to believe it.

Yes I have had good improvement.... But not enough. Not nearly enough. And honestly my scarring isn't that bad.... so if scarring that isn't that bad is not improving enough with smoothbeam how can severe scarring improve. Either my doc did something wrong or they (candela, my doc, etc) are lying.

My doc says that I am being too much of a perfectionist and that my skin looks good. I wish I could believe her ...when she says this I feel like dragging her outside and saying - "look! this is what I am seeing! Now tell me again how "good" my skin looks." I look fine for the most part in inside lighting but outside particularly under certain light and at certain angles my scars are very much there. My doc (and often my husband) acts like I am making it far worse than it is but I don't think I am - Yes I am a bit of a perfectionist but I am not crazy - the skin on the left side of my face looks DAMAGED. Period. and I hate it.

My doc says that things will continue to improve over the next six months.... and that I need to give it time. And I think "great more false hope."

I have got to find a way to come to terms with the scarring - I have got to find a way to accept and be happy with myself in spite of it... and I think it's a challenge that I cannot meet. I don't even want to meet it 'cause I still want more than anything for my scaring to go away... I HAVE TO accept that this is what I look like now and I CAN'T accept it... But I am so tired of being depressed about it... so tired of the depression..... I wish I could take a pill that will at least make me think I look like I used to again ... a pill to take me of reality... ya know, ike those people that go into deep denial about bad stuff ... wish I were in denial about my scars... I'd even settle for that....

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sad.gif 

I am with you Antz....

Weird, I got depressed today about this very issue and then turned on the computer and, well, it certainly looks like I am not alone...

I feel lied to as well.... My smoothbeam doc told me 90%-100% improvement... I didn't get even close to that.  Then she says to me (after I spent $3000), \"well, It's not like I have an eraser - what do you expect, I can't erase your scars...\"  I didn't say it 'cause I guess I am too damn polite but I thought \"Bitch, that's not what you told me during our initial consultation when you were talking me into giving you $2200.\"  She specifically told me she could get the scars to go away during my consultation.  She said those exact words \"I can get these scars to go away for you.\"  Now that she has taken almost $3000 from me it's \"oh I don't have an eraser... what did you expect???\"  But I suppose I wanted to believe it so it's my fault as well.  Deep inside I knew I was being lied to, but I needed to hear it and I needed to believe it.    

Yes I have had good improvement.... But not enough.  Not nearly enough.  And honestly my scarring isn't that bad.... so if scarring that isn't that bad is not improving enough with smoothbeam how can severe scarring improve.  Either my doc did something wrong or they (candela, my doc, etc) are lying. 

My doc says that I am being too much of a perfectionist and that my skin looks good.  I wish I could believe her ...when she says this I feel like dragging her outside and saying - \"look! this is what I am seeing!  Now tell me again how \"good\" my skin looks.\"  I look fine for the most part in inside lighting but outside particularly under certain light and at certain angles my scars are very much there.  My doc (and often my husband) acts like I am making it far worse than it is but I don't think I am - Yes I am a bit of a perfectionist but I am not crazy - the skin on the left side of my face looks DAMAGED. Period.  and I hate it.

My doc says that things will continue to improve over the next six months.... and that I need to give it time.  And I think \"great more false hope.\"

I have got to find a way to come to terms with the scarring - I have got to find a way to accept and be happy with myself in spite of it... and I think it's a challenge that I cannot meet. I don't even want to meet it 'cause I still want more than anything for my scaring to go away...  I HAVE TO accept that this is what I look like now and I CAN'T accept it...  But I am so tired of being depressed about it...  so tired of the depression.....  I wish I could take a pill that will at least make me think  I look like I used to again ... a pill to take me of  reality... ya know, ike those people that go into deep denial about bad stuff ... wish I were in denial about my scars... I'd even settle for that....

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.... also Antz in the Pantz has a right to complain because Isolagen is very expensive.

Mary, you've gotten like 5x times the improvement of 10%, and 10%-20% sounds complaint-worthy when you spend that kind of money, but smoothbeam is VERY CHEAP compared to most procedures, inlcuding isolagen.

Anyone should be happy with 50% with additional improvement to come...

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well it wasn't "cheap" for me, fromchicago. sorry but $3000 isn't cheap in my world. That was money hard earned by my husband and myself - we had to forego our vacation. If it upsets you to hear this stuff don't come to this thread.

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well it wasn't \"cheap\" for me, fromchicago.  sorry but $3000 isn't cheap in my world.  That was money hard earned by my husband and myself - we had to forego our vacation.  If it upsets to hear this stuff don't come to this thread.

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hey you know what, fromchicago - FUCK YOU.

You don't even know me. You don't know what I look like. And I am sorry if what I say about smoothbeam isn't what you want to hear but it is THE TRUTH. You and a quite a few others simply don't want to hear it.. Can't say I blame you but it is the truth. ANd people should hear about the experience.

I didn't say anyone on this board reported 90% . I was one of the FIRST ones on this board to get smoothbeam. Way before you came along here.

And I expected the improvement my doc told me to expect. I was told to expect 90%-100% improvement.

50 % is not huge when the scars are STILL THERE. And you still feel as ugly as you did before you spent $3000.

I am being REAL - it's you that is in Lala land - though I do envy you .... I'd love to be able to live in a fantasy land...shame I am tooo much of a realist.

If you don't want to hear what I have to say THEN GET LOST... don't read my posts. But DON"T YOU DARE TELL ME HOW TO FEEL ... YOU don;t know me, you don't know my scars. .... so if I haven't made this abundantly clear to you FUCK OFF YOU SANCTIMONIOUS LITTLE SHIT!

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hey you know what, fromchicago - fuck you.  You don't even know me.  You don't know what I look like.  And I am sorry if what I say about smoothbeam isn't what you want to hear but it is THE TRUTH.  You and a quite a few others simply don't want to hear it.. Can't say I blame you but it is the truth.  ANd people should hear about the experience.

I didn't say anyone on this board reported 90% .  I was one of the FIRST ones on this board to get smoothbeam.  Way before you came along here.   

And I expected the improvement my doc told me to expect.  So call me a fool then.

50 % is not huge when the scars are STILL THERE. And you still feel as ugly as you did before you spent $3000. 

I am being REAL - it's you that is in Lalala land - though I do envy you .... I'd love to be able to live in a fantasy land...shame I am tooo much of a realist.

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BTW, smoothbeam is really cheap compared to everything else. And if you paid $3000 dollars for your treatments, -- i must say YOU SHOULD HAVE SHOPPED AROUND, because where I'm from you'd get over 10 treatments for $3000...

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Good - don't ever post to me again. And I have news for you, you little ass, that is not how to make someone feel better or feel postive or whatever new wave pop-pschology nonsense you were trying to accomplish. All you were doing was tryign to make yourself feel better not me.

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I couldn't shop around - know-it-all. She is ONLY DOC near me that has smoothbeam and even she is 45 minutes away. YOU don't know what you are talking about and You don't know my situation so take your judgmental ass away from me

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Good - don't ever post to me again.  And I have news for you, you little ass, that is not how to make someone feel better or feel postive or whatever new wave pop-pschology nonsense you were trying to accomplish.  All you were doing was tryign to make yourself feel better not me.

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Guest Tracy
hey you know what, fromchicago - FUCK YOU.  DON\"T YOU DARE TELL ME HOW TO FEEL ... YOU don;t know me, you don't know my scars. .... so if I haven't made this abundantly clear to you FUCK OFF YOU SANCTIMONIOUS LITTLE SHIT!

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