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Wolfheart

Milk bad, junk food ok?

I just read a Danish article based on a study from Harvard claiming that with the participation of 47000 young girls they have concluded that cows milk, especially skimmed and low-fat milk DO cause acne. Furthermore they claim that junk food has no effect on this. As far as I know, Harvard is one of your top schools over there, so there must be some truth there :think:

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True for me, but I was not in the survey.

But I honestly breakout from this dairy stuff tried and tru, anf not from fast food , so I believe ya!

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I just read a Danish article based on a study from Harvard claiming that with the participation of 47000 young girls they have concluded that cows milk, especially skimmed and low-fat milk DO cause acne. Furthermore they claim that junk food has no effect on this. As far as I know, Harvard is one of your top schools over there, so there must be some truth there :think:

Well ... most junk foods contain milk so ...

Also, I wouldn't trust those kind of studies as they just feed isolated foods to the subjects and after a week or two of eating only or mostly that food they observe how much the acne is improved or worsened

But the body and food doesn't work in isolation and epidemiological studies are better for this as it's not single food contributing to the development of acne but the nutritional spectrum including excesses and deficiencies of certain nutrients

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Hey, I am a fast food hater. while in the U.S. though experienced Sonic Burgers.

1) I was really hungary

2) Beats the shit out of Wendy's. And I hate all fast food burger units.

Was I just hungary, or are the Sonics good. (Ithink I was hungary), but beats the shit out of like Wendy's.??????????????????????

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I can't imagine that a survey of 47000 people was properly controlled, detailed or longterm. Maybe it was. The fact is, some people (maybe even most) will eat excessive amounts of fast food and consume a whole lot of milk throughout their lives and never suffer from acne. Others will do so but they will get acne. If you believe that for you personally milk, fast food (or any other arbitrary lifestyle/diet choice people get excited) affects your acne then it's pretty easy to cut it out. Nobody is going to die from using soya milk instead of dairy or from eating burgers made from beef rather than cardboard. It may do FA for your acne, but chances are it will taste better.

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I can't imagine that a survey of 47000 people was properly controlled, detailed or longterm. Maybe it was. The fact is, some people (maybe even most) will eat excessive amounts of fast food and consume a whole lot of milk throughout their lives and never suffer from acne. Others will do so but they will get acne. If you believe that for you personally milk, fast food (or any other arbitrary lifestyle/diet choice people get excited) affects your acne then it's pretty easy to cut it out. Nobody is going to die from using soya milk instead of dairy or from eating burgers made from beef rather than cardboard. It may do FA for your acne, but chances are it will taste better.

We have gone through this before

Imagine a city protected by a dam that keep the water levels under control

Imagine a city has a big damn and even after a violent storm the water never flood the the city

Imagine a city has a smaller dam and after a violent storm the whole city is flooded is destroyed

Everyone will agree that while the dam in a passive factors in what happened the cause is the storm

The dam is our passive genes and the storm is the external variable factors in our like like diet, sleep patterns, pollutant exposure, physical activity and so on

Even more food for thoughts: just because a SMALL DAMN caused the water to flood and destroy the city it doesn't meant that BUILDING A BIGGER DAMN after the storm has occurred will result in the flood reversing and the houses being as intact as before.

That's just to say that just because something caused a condition it doesn't mean that it can also provide the cure to the condition it caused. That's why prevention is better and reversing a condition is not always possible and at least not always possible through the same means that caused it in the first place

To say that diet/lifestyle is the cause doesn't imply that by turn acne/lifestyle is the CURE

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The interesting thing here is that they specifically mention low-fat skim milk.

Raw, whole milk, is probably very good for the skin and acne. It's been used in the past for psoriasis.

Skim milk lacks the healthy fats and fat soluble vitamins.

Lesson: get the real stuff, not processed garbage.

I guarantee that most people wouldn't get acne, and may see acne reverse, in those that consume raw milk.

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We have gone through this before

Imagine a city protected by a dam that keep the water levels under control

Imagine a city has a big damn and even after a violent storm the water never flood the the city

Imagine a city has a smaller dam and after a violent storm the whole city is flooded is destroyed

Yes we certainly have and your analogy still doesn't work.

In your example the dam is a truly passive factor. The dam has no bearing on whether there is any rainfall or not. The rain will fall whether or not the dam is there. However, in the case of acne, the "genes" (or whatever you want to call them) do have a role to play in the development in acne because they have a role in determining things like your hormone levels and perhaps the other things that contribute to acne - e.g. the amount of oil your glands secrete. Therefore your genes are not a passive factor in the same way as the dam.

Secondly, if you are saying that even if the condition is caused by diet it may not be possible to cure it with diet, you have to ask yourself why one should bother making drastic dietary changes if at this point it will have no effect.

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hm... Well is supposed to mean that the lowfat milk is healthier for the body but the whole milk is more helpful for the skin. I'm not sure about this although does it matter that it came from Harvard, since there are products of Harvard that do not demonstrate their abilities...

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We have gone through this before

Imagine a city protected by a dam that keep the water levels under control

Imagine a city has a big damn and even after a violent storm the water never flood the the city

Imagine a city has a smaller dam and after a violent storm the whole city is flooded is destroyed

Yes we certainly have and your analogy still doesn't work.

In your example the dam is a truly passive factor. The dam has no bearing on whether there is any rainfall or not. The rain will fall whether or not the dam is there. However, in the case of acne, the "genes" (or whatever you want to call them) do have a role to play in the development in acne because they have a role in determining things like your hormone levels and perhaps the other things that contribute to acne - e.g. the amount of oil your glands secrete. Therefore your genes are not a passive factor in the same way as the dam.

No genes are passive factors. You will never find any genetics research evidence that genes have an active roles. In the instance of hormone levels genes just predispose you to excessive hormonal activity when a triggering factor is present. So you're more susceptible to the hormonal activity raising of certain external factors, but your genes alones can't cause an absolute increase hormonal activity

The same goes for diabetes, heart disease, stroke, osteoporosis and many other conditions

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People cant blame Genes on everything its only a very small number of acne sufferers that have a genetic condition,a rough guess would probably tell me 95% on this board do not have acne caused by genes.Its all about the hormones baby,and dodgy facewashes with more chemicals than a drugs factory.

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People cant blame Genes on everything its only a very small number of acne sufferers that have a genetic condition,a rough guess would probably tell me 95% on this board do not have acne caused by genes.Its all about the hormones baby,and dodgy facewashes with more chemicals than a drugs factory.

I have a perfect combination of my mother and my father's skin: oily like my father, irritable like my mother's. My father had acne until his mid twenties. In looks I'm also an almost perfect combination of my parents: I have my father's facial shape and oily scalp, but I have my mother's eye color, hair color, and thick hair. My school friends could always pick my parents out of a crowd before I introduced them.

You're going to tell me that that's not genetic?

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I didnt say anything about your appearance in my post plus most people dont get inherited genes until later generations its very rare to be handed down in the first generation.

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People cant blame Genes on everything its only a very small number of acne sufferers that have a genetic condition,a rough guess would probably tell me 95% on this board do not have acne caused by genes.Its all about the hormones baby,and dodgy facewashes with more chemicals than a drugs factory.

I have a perfect combination of my mother and my father's skin: oily like my father, irritable like my mother's. My father had acne until his mid twenties. In looks I'm also an almost perfect combination of my parents: I have my father's facial shape and oily scalp, but I have my mother's eye color, hair color, and thick hair. My school friends could always pick my parents out of a crowd before I introduced them.

You're going to tell me that that's not genetic?

Your genes would become irrelevant if there was no external factor to predispose

In other words people with oily skin genes can have less oily skin than people without onli skin genetics, people with heart disease genes may not develop heart disease while people without the genes can develop it, people with the diabetes gene may not develop diabetes while a person without the genes may develop it

The point is that genes become revelant as they predispose you to the effect of certain factors while protect more others from those same factors. If you remove those factors there's nothing your genes can predispose and they remain passive and cannot cause any condition

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No genes are passive factors. You will never find any genetics research evidence that genes have an active roles. In the instance of hormone levels genes just predispose you to excessive hormonal activity when a triggering factor is present. So you're more susceptible to the hormonal activity raising of certain external factors, but your genes alones can't cause an absolute increase hormonal activity

The same goes for diabetes, heart disease, stroke, osteoporosis and many other conditions

We also discussed this before. The reason I used the word "genes" is because I don't know what else to call them. The point is, whether it is genes or something else, there is something inside us that means that we are more susceptible to developing acne when certain other external factors are present. If that were not the case then everyone who ate a crappy diet or took drugs or became an alcoholic or who was an insomniac etc etc would have acne. That "something else" has a direct bearing on the fact we have acne and therefore cannot be compared to the dam in your analogy.

EDIT: You acknowledge that even if you a condition is caused by (or IMO contributed to by) certain external factors, it doesn't mean that it can be cured by removing those external factors. I presume that most of us are here because we are already suffering from acne and trying to get rid of it. That's the reason people look to diet.

People cant blame Genes on everything its only a very small number of acne sufferers that have a genetic condition,a rough guess would probably tell me 95% on this board do not have acne caused by genes.Its all about the hormones baby,and dodgy facewashes with more chemicals than a drugs factory.

See my response to Danny above, baby. Re hormones: I had mine tested and they came back as normal. My doc said that acne isn't necessarily about abnormal levels of hormones but it can be about an abnormal response to normal levels of hormones. I agree that the chemicals don't help, but I bet that, if you have acne (especially moderate severe acne), even if you wash your face only with water and don't moisturise with a natural moisturiser like jojoba oil, you would still get it even with those changes. Baby.

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