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rosiemarie

organic food worth it?

im sure this topic has been done before, but how much healthier is organic food? its more expensive to buy, and i want to be told that its worth it! i just buy organic yogurt so far.....am i getting anything out of this here, just in overall health? :)

thanks!

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The 12 Foods to Buy Organic

Another list -- from worst (amount of pesticides, even after washing) to least harmful:

1. Peaches

2. Apples

3. Sweet Bell Peppers

4. Celery

5. Nectarines

6. Strawberries

7. Cherries

8. Pears

9. Grapes (imported)

10. Spinach

11. Lettuce

12. Potatoes

13. Carrots

14. Green Beans

15. Hot Peppers

16. Cucumbers

17. Raspberries

18. Plums

19. Grapes (domestic)

20. Oranges

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Nobody can tell you if it is worth it. I don't believe so, but know many who do.

The link the first responder posted was scary, and made me worry for a second since that list contained about 95% of my dietary intake, but then I poked around for a while to calm myself. Through my poking I came to the same conclusion I came to a while ago: Non-organically grown produce may still have some residues on it, but so what? Do you know how much bad stuff your body takes in on any given day? Oh, and btw, there is still chemical residues on some organic stuff. Anyways, I guess that when I think of this whole debate, I think about whether or not I am at risk by eating normal foods. The question really isn't 'will i get healthier eating organic?', it's 'will I hurt myself by not eating organic?'. I can't say I've ever found anything that was strong enough to convince me that my food was so risky that I should go and spend at least 20% more for food grown differently.

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Nobody can tell you if it is worth it. I don't believe so, but know many who do.

The link the first responder posted was scary, and made me worry for a second since that list contained about 95% of my dietary intake, but then I poked around for a while to calm myself. Through my poking I came to the same conclusion I came to a while ago: Non-organically grown produce may still have some residues on it, but so what? Do you know how much bad stuff your body takes in on any given day? Oh, and btw, there is still chemical residues on some organic stuff. Anyways, I guess that when I think of this whole debate, I think about whether or not I am at risk by eating normal foods. The question really isn't 'will i get healthier eating organic?', it's 'will I hurt myself by not eating organic?'. I can't say I've ever found anything that was strong enough to convince me that my food was so risky that I should go and spend at least 20% more for food grown differently.

Conventionally grown foods (not orgainc) can be scary because you can never know if they have come from GMO seeds or not. If you know very much about GMOs, then there wouldn't really be that much of a question. I eat organic when I can, but I don't do it all the time.

Think about this: A pesticide company was the first to ever be able to patent a SEED. Why did they patent it and how did they justify this? Because the seed was different because it was altered so the fruit could only survive if the brand of pesticide was sprayed on the fruit!

Plus pesticides kill nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit.

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Conventionally grown foods (not orgainc) can be scary because you can never know if they have come from GMO seeds or not. If you know very much about GMOs, then there wouldn't really be that much of a question. I eat organic when I can, but I don't do it all the time.

Think about this: A pesticide company was the first to ever be able to patent a SEED. Why did they patent it and how did they justify this? Because the seed was different because it was altered so the fruit could only survive if the brand of pesticide was sprayed on the fruit!

Plus pesticides kill nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit.

Yes, you can know if conventionally grown foods, that are not organic, have been grown from GMO or not. Some will tell you right on the packaging.

"if you know very much about gmo's, then there wouldn't really be that much of a question". That is presumptuous at best. As a matter of fact, I do know quite a bit about GMO's, and yes, there is still a great question. Some people are afraid of the unknown, whihc you clearly are if you believe that the current state of knowledge on GMO's leaves no question. In fact, i'm calling you out on that. Please explain to us the current state of knowledge on GMO's so that anyone reading this thread, after seeing your argument (that is backed up with real, verifiable sources :cool: ), will almost certainly feel that there is no question.

I'm interested in your response, because I was a resource econ major just a year ago, and happen to know quite a great deal about GMO's, and the way i was taught was that there isn't just 'no question', there is a ton of questions. In fact, that is the cornerstone of the GMO debate - nothing is absolute, it has been tested (more heavily tested than any other crops in existence, actually), and nothing is proven that is wrong, but people are scared by teh short track record and the fear of the unknown. But please don't hesitate, I, and I'm sure everyone else reading, is interested to know what new stuff has made avoiding GMO's a no-question issue.

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Nobody can tell you if it is worth it. I don't believe so, but know many who do.

The link the first responder posted was scary, and made me worry for a second since that list contained about 95% of my dietary intake, but then I poked around for a while to calm myself. Through my poking I came to the same conclusion I came to a while ago: Non-organically grown produce may still have some residues on it, but so what? Do you know how much bad stuff your body takes in on any given day? Oh, and btw, there is still chemical residues on some organic stuff. Anyways, I guess that when I think of this whole debate, I think about whether or not I am at risk by eating normal foods. The question really isn't 'will i get healthier eating organic?', it's 'will I hurt myself by not eating organic?'. I can't say I've ever found anything that was strong enough to convince me that my food was so risky that I should go and spend at least 20% more for food grown differently.

Conventionally grown foods (not orgainc) can be scary because you can never know if they have come from GMO seeds or not. If you know very much about GMOs, then there wouldn't really be that much of a question. I eat organic when I can, but I don't do it all the time.

Think about this: A pesticide company was the first to ever be able to patent a SEED. Why did they patent it and how did they justify this? Because the seed was different because it was altered so the fruit could only survive if the brand of pesticide was sprayed on the fruit!

Plus pesticides kill nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit.

And while we wait on you bringing your data to the table to show why the GMO question is really that clear, I'm going to address some other things that you posted, lest readers just take you at your word.

"i eat organic when I can, but I don't do it all the time"

Why not? If you truly are that fearful, and have no question in your mind as to the dangers, why would you take the risk? Just curious.

"Think about this: A pesticide company was the first to ever be able to patent a SEED. Why did they patent it and how did they justify this? Because the seed was different because it was altered so the fruit could only survive if the brand of pesticide was sprayed on the fruit! "

Yes, they designed a highly efficient system based around a seed and a specific pesticide, and patented their work. Just to add fuel to your fire, did you know that they actually sued (and won!) farmers who had the seeds growing, by accident, on their fields? Seriously, a neighboring farmer's patented seeds germinated over property lines, and the farmer who didn't even know about the seeds on his property was sued (and the seed company won). Of course this is interesting from several standpoints, but begs the question: WHAT DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE SAFETY OF ORGANICS?? SERIOUSLY!?!

"Plus pesticides kill nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit."

Again, more propaganda. Sure, some pesticides kill nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit. Of course, so does aging, and so do things besides pesticides. Oh, and let's not forget that pesticides are on organic products as well lol! Seriously, that statement the way you say it sounds so definitive, like we're getting so much less out of our non organic fruit. The truth of the matter is that your statement is meaningless. It would be meaningful if you said "plus, non-organic pesticides typically kill over 50% of the nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit". But, you didn't. You said a statement that could just as easily mean what I just said as it could mean "Plus, non-organic pesticides kill 0.0003% of the nutrients on the skin or rhine of the fruit, yet they preserve the nutrients inside the fruit better than organic pesticides".

Do you see how your statement sounds scary, yet truly means nothing? This kind of statement is what fuels organic buying habits - we all eat, we all care about our health and life. People say things that make us think we're sabotaging ourselves if we don't go and spend more on organics, so many gullible people just start buyign organics, and then spitting out half-assed arguments on the net.

Very interested to hear you elaborate, with verifiable resources (nothing fancy, just don't be pulling data from your ass), your points, as I happen to know quite a bit about this and you seem to think you know the real deal, yet are coming across kind of clueless.

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There are enough studies on organic vs. organic

Not all foods when organically grown seem to have an advantag over non-organically grown, certain foods on the other hands have concrete higher levels of nutrients (mostly ascorbic acids, carotenoids and phytochemcals) when grown organically while certain foods have very high intake of toxic residues when grown non-organically (high enough to affect one's health)

Because of this the conclusion seems to be that certain foods should be bought only if organic while other foods can be bought at your regular supermarket

The food that according to the data on studies comparing toxic residue vs. nutrients in organic vs. non organic foods should be avoided if traditionally grown are:

Apples

Strawberries

Celery

Cherries

Potatoes

Spinach

Peaches

Bell Peppers

If you buy these foods buy organic

Foods where organic is not required are:

Lettuce

Cabbages

Cauliflowers

Peas

Bananas

Broccoli

Asparagus

Oranges

Pineapples

Grapefruits

Grapes

Avocados

Mangos

Other foods are pretty neutral

Even without buying all your food organic but just buying organic the foods that are on the first list the exposure to toxic residues can be reduced to 98%

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lol no he won't have references (although even I could probably find a reference for what he posted. I'm not gonna because I could care less, but for waht it's worth I know his list is pretty much on point).

He was just talking all kinds of unusual stuff in this thread:

http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...8394&st=160

When pressed for ANY solid documentation for the uncommon statements he was making, he had a bunch of ridiculous reasons why he couldn't back himself up, but nothing to satisfy those who doubted him.

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When pressed for ANY solid documentation for the uncommon statements he was making, he had a bunch of ridiculous reasons why he couldn't back himself up, but nothing to satisfy those who doubted him.

I don't have ridicolous reasons just HONEST ones

I'm LAZY and providing you hundreds of references would take me lot of time and effort

If you read my old posts you will see I have provided lot of references lot of time

What you asked me is providing your hundreds of reference from years of reading and pubmed searching

A doctor that must co-author a study must have to look and collect all needed reference but he/she is paid for that. Such a huge effort would take away hours of my time and provide me no reward

Also when I read researched or textbook I didn't wrote down all references ... it just seemed an useless task to me, so I would just have to recover all of them ... that would require lot of reading and lot of writing

it would require to you evern more time to find and read those studies and I know you WON'T do it anyway ... no I won't only be unrewarded for my huge effort but it will also be meaningless

When pressed for ANY solid documentation for the uncommon statements he was making, he had a bunch of ridiculous reasons why he couldn't back himself up, but nothing to satisfy those who doubted him.

I don't have ridicolous reasons just HONEST ones

I'm LAZY and providing you hundreds of references would take me lot of time and effort

If you read my old posts you will see I have provided lot of references lot of time

What you asked me is providing your hundreds of reference from years of reading and pubmed searching

A doctor that must co-author a study must have to look and collect all needed reference but he/she is paid for that. Such a huge effort would take away hours of my time and provide me no reward

Also when I read researched or textbook I didn't wrote down all references ... it just seemed an useless task to me, so I would just have to recover all of them ... that would require lot of reading and lot of writing

it would require to you evern more time to find and read those studies and I know you WON'T do it anyway ... no I won't only be unrewarded for my huge effort but it will also be meaningless

I'm wrestler but website pages, magazines articles and quotes are not references

Texbooks and studies are but to gather them all requires way more effort an time than to post a link to an article on the web. Read my posts on protein or my posts on calcium balance and you'll see I have posted tons of references for what I claimed.

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before this disolves into anymore handbags i just want to know where this info has come from as it may well influence the stuff i buy at the supermarket, and the change i come out with :)

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before this disolves into anymore handbags i just want to know where this info has come from as it may well influence the stuff i buy at the supermarket, and the change i come out with :)

Food Additives and Contaminants, May 8, 2002. U.S. Government Data on Pesticide Residues in Foods:

Soil Association, United Kingdom, 2001. Organic Farming, Food Quality and Human Health"

J Alt Compl Med 2001;7(2):161-173. Worthington V. Nutritional quality of organic versus conventional fruits, vegetables, and grains.

J Agric Food Chem 2003;51(19): 5671-5676. Rasmussen SE, Bugel S, et al. Effect of diets based on foods from conventional versus organic production on intake and excretion of flavonoids and markers of antioxidative defense in humans.

Epidemiology 1999;10(5):481-487. Krajinovic M, Sinnett D. Risk of childhood leukemia associated with exposure to pesticides and with gene polymorphisms

Associazione Italiana per l'Agricoltura Biologica and Legambiente, Oct. 2, 2001

Consumer Union; Consumer Reports, January 1998, pp. 12-18. The Truth About Organic Food.

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By far, the biggest problem we have today as health conscious people is the lobbying in place to weaken organic standards. There are good companies and bad companies. The bad companies are the ones with dubious practices, stretching near every constraint of the standards. After all, those standards, provided they are strong, would ensure clean and untampered food from A to Z were they implemented properly. This is why people go off on the "not really organic" rant and attack organic living so much. Because there are companies that stretch the rules and we here in the US have a government that doesn't give a damn about our health. It's not that organic food isn't good for you, but that it's hard to pick out what is organic and what isn't, despite what's on the label!

The "scientific" studies regarding this topic contradict themselves. On the one hand, there are plenty of studies on pesticides and various chemicals being put in the food, and plenty to suggest that they are dangerous or at least not beneficial to human health. Meanwhile, other studies claim that organic food is virtually the same as conventional food despite the presence of previously studied toxins in the latter. If there are negative health affects due to these synthetic chemicals, then why would their absence not indicate superior food? Scientists can never agree on anything.

When we can't rely on science for a guiding light, we have to look towards anecdotal evidence. Personally, I've seen great benefits with this kind of food. I eat NOTHING but organic food. There are no harmful synthetics in these products. I'm in better overall health now than I was prior to changing my diet. Many people strongly believe in organic food and have cured themselves with it.

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Wrestler,

I really don't think this is the place to come in and insult or be condscending to the people who post here. We are all here to get help and I think it is not the place to be rude to people who are just sharing their opinions. Obviously, we have very different ideas of the world, but I really don't feel the need to belittle anyone over it. Personally, I feel it is pretty shitty that these huge corporations are sueing small farmers because their seeds happened to blow into their field when they didn't even want it there in the first place. That alone is a reason for me to try to stay away from conventional produce, but not the only reason.

I come here to post and read what I can while having a really busy schedule. I am not going to waste my time finding sources on the internet I can link people to when I get my information in other places than only the internet. So you can criticize me all you want, but I have nothing left to say to you.

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Wrestler,

I really don't think this is the place to come in and insult or be condscending to the people who post here. We are all here to get help and I think it is not the place to be rude to people who are just sharing their opinions. Obviously, we have very different ideas of the world, but I really don't feel the need to belittle anyone over it. Personally, I feel it is pretty shitty that these huge corporations are sueing small farmers because their seeds happened to blow into their field when they didn't even want it there in the first place. That alone is a reason for me to try to stay away from conventional produce, but not the only reason.

If you find it insulting that I got upset when someone was in another thread making statements that fly in the face of what is commonly held as true, and then refused to provide anything, and gave the reason "i cannot provide hundreds of studies" when it was made clear that only a few respectable studies were suitable, then i can't help you. When you say something that is contrary to popular opinion, and cannot back it up, it hurts your credibility and the credibility of anythign you say.

And if ONE company doing some unethical business practice is enough for you to stay away from conventional food and only support organic, then clearly you are highly motivated by factors unrelated to your health, and i cannot argue anti-capitalism so i can't say you're wrong. But the original poster in this thread wanted to know about reasons of health, and you took that as a chance to bash conventional produce based upon a business predjudice, which is just wrong. This thread isn't a soapbox for anticapitalism, it is about product quality of conventional versus organic.

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