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wrestler

Why not use salicyclic acid and bp as the cornerstone of the regimen?

I've found the regimen to work very well (after waiting long enough for it to do its thing), but then finally got fed up with ruining clothes (bleaching them). So, I stopped using the bp, and they started coming back some.

Then, I started using salicylic acid (sa), and I used it 3 times daily, religiously, and found my skin got perfect again (actually a little better than when I was doing the 2X daily bp regimen). I figured that I must just be that, whether it was bp or sa, having a constant deterrance to pimple formation was the main idea behind an effective regimen.

Recently I've been wondering this - why would the regimen completely leave out sa? It seems like bp is actually killing bacteria (that flourishes in the oil / dead skin), while sa is preventing the environment the bacteria likes. Sure, just using sa all of the time may eliminate the environment, eliminating pimples. Likewise, using bp all of the time kills the bacteria, eliminating pimples. Wouldn't the ideal regimen use both of these? The products both seem to be quite effective when used consistently (and never missing an application! God it took me forever to get that point in my head), but since they work through unique mechanisms wouldn't combining the two into a regimen be best? Like maybe doing the normal 2X daily bp routine (wash, bp, moisturize), but adding in a little sa face pad session in the middle of the day.

(btw, i found other similarities that made sa work well that i took from dan's regimen. Aside from making sure you consistently use the product, it is good to use the lowest %'s / weakest formulas you can. I've been using 'gentle' sa face pads, which are like .5% or 1% i believe. Another thing I wanted to add - I've actually just recently hit my first point, since many many many years ago, of having no active zits on my face, which lasted a couple days. That amazing feat was reached after maybe a year of doing the regimen (not always strictly, and also doing my thign with the sa), and then I began using an astringent that had both salicylic acid and glycolic acid (alpha and beta hydroxy acids), which preceded my 100% clear period by maybe a week. I think this aha / bha mix could be promising).

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Guest Michael Jackson

this is an interesting idea

are you a wresler like your name implies?

what weight?

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Simply, it's too irritating for a large majority of people. Few people would be able to tolerate both SA and BP at the same time. Hell, some people struggle just using BP by itself.

In theory, it makes perfect sense. SA cleans out the pores and exfolaites while BP eliminates the bacteria. But in reality, it is too much for most people.

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yes i've wrestled through hs and a bit in college too. Started 103 in HS lol, then 125, then 140 for jun/sen years. In college I went 165. Good times!

Ariventa, it's too irritating??? Is that the only reason why? Wow, I was expecting that I was missing somethign major. If it is only an irritation issue, then that should be easy to overcome. People could add in a tiny, weak salicylic acid dose in the middle of the day, every other day, until they could build up to it. Or, they could use salicylic in the morning after washing and bp at night.

I may be an exception, but I find low strength sa to be much milder than low strength bp. Anyone else with me on that? I'm talking about 0.5% salicylic acid (I think there may only be like 1 or 2 products that weak available in stores, kind of like the case with the bp). I used to think salicylic was way too harsh, but then I saw an oxy 'gentle' formula (i think it was oxy anyways), and started thinking about how people want to buy strong, so that's what companies sell, yet in the case of bp, the weakest was actually just as effective AND less drying. Soooo, i started using the salicylic regularly (the weak 0.5% solution), in the form of face pads, and found that to work great.

I've only very recently decided that I want to mix the two, but wanted to make sure there wasn't any major reasons why I shouldn't. Honestly, if you think about it, let's say that the irritation is the limiting factor here. I believe that, in time, you should be able to acclimate yourself up to a decent regimen, but even if you cannot, wouldn't it be better to use less bp and add in some sa? You could start going a little lighter on your morning bp application, and then do a very quick wipe of your face (gently! I mean quick as in don't treat the same area twice, not quick as in moving fast!) with a salicylic pad in the middle of the day.

I may have tougher skin, but in my experience, I am able to just keep adding things as I acclimate. Sure, it may take a month or longer for many to get where I am, but that's the case with bp alone anyways. If you keep your strengths low (2% bp is it? and 0.5% sa), you should be able to squeeze the two together, and now you're using two respectable, proven products, that are fighting the same problem through alternate pathways.

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The thing is, is that most of the over-the-counter SA products are alcohol-based which is what can be really too drying (and therefore) irritating for most people. Also, for SA to work properly (to its maximal capacity) it need to have a pH level of 3-4 AND be in a concentration of 1-2% If not, it loses its ability to exfoliate.

Since most are alcohol-based, the pH is not right (I beleive alcohol is mildy acidic, so around 5 or 6 on the pH scale).

What SA producat are you using? If you CAN find the correct one, SA and BP together work GREAT! The SA exfoliates deep into the pore and the BP kills the bacteria. I was using the Clan n Clear 1% solution but it's around 40% alcohol and just irritated the hell out of my skin. And i doubt the pH is right... :confused:

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The thing is, is that most of the over-the-counter SA products are alcohol-based which is what can be really too drying (and therefore) irritating for most people. Also, for SA to work properly (to its maximal capacity) it need to have a pH level of 3-4 AND be in a concentration of 1-2% If not, it loses its ability to exfoliate.

The one that I have that is lighter % of SA is lighter alcohol (which seems fitting).

Can you please explain further the 1-2% and ph requirements of SA? I've never heard that and my experiences tell me it's incorrect.

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Foomph, I'm still waiting on your justification for those statements. I see by clicking on your usernname that you were active today, are you ignoring someone asking you to back up such definitive statements?

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a lot of people dont know what theyre talking about. using salicylic acid and bp together is not irritating. paula from paulas choice recommends using both cuz #1 salicylic acid exfoliates within the pores and helps prevent and treat blackheads and it also helps with blemishes. bp kills acne bacteria, so youre basically getting help for both pores and acne here. the reason why people always say its irritating to use both is because they arent using the right products. MOST otc salicylic acid products nowadays contain irritating ingridients like alcohol, menthol, etc. you need to find a good one that has no irritating ingridients in it and one that is ph balanced. paulas choice are the only ones that i know of that are ph balanced and dont have any irritating ingridients. remember, find one that is ph balanced and salicylic acid will be great to use. make sure you buy a leave on one and not a cleanser one. put the sa on wait than put the bp on.

good luck

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Yeah, this would be ideal. A regimen that would use BP and SA is perfect in theory, though the irritation is really too much for most people in reality.

Even without SA, BP alone dries and irritates your skin horribly. Most people already have problems with using BP twice a day, let alone using SA as a step in their regimen.

I once tried an SA moisturiser (I know the SA concentration in it was really low) right after BP, and my skin burned and stinged horribly.

About SA not working in lower concentrations than 1-2%, I've heard that somewhere too (not sure how true it is though).

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Yeah, this would be ideal. A regimen that would use BP and SA is perfect in theory, though the irritation is really too much for most people in reality.

Even without SA, BP alone dries and irritates your skin horribly. Most people already have problems with using BP twice a day, let alone using SA as a step in their regimen.

I once tried an SA moisturiser (I know the SA concentration in it was really low) right after BP, and my skin burned and stinged horribly.

About SA not working in lower concentrations than 1-2%, I've heard that somewhere too (not sure how true it is though).

the irritation is due to people using the wrong products with the wrong ingridients

most people do not know what theyre putting on their face

dans regime is good and all, but the regime doesnt do anything about blackheads and clogged pores.

sa works in concentrations 1-2, but i prefer anything 2% or higher. i usually use salicylic acid peels and i get much better results with those than leave on applications.

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Yeah, this would be ideal. A regimen that would use BP and SA is perfect in theory, though the irritation is really too much for most people in reality.

Even without SA, BP alone dries and irritates your skin horribly. Most people already have problems with using BP twice a day, let alone using SA as a step in their regimen.

I once tried an SA moisturiser (I know the SA concentration in it was really low) right after BP, and my skin burned and stinged horribly.

About SA not working in lower concentrations than 1-2%, I've heard that somewhere too (not sure how true it is though).

That just wouldn't make sense that it needs to be a certain concentration, that idea suggests a threshold dose for effectiveness, which I cannot understand how it would work that way with this kind of product. If anyone could elaborate, even just explain why 0.5% doesn't work 50% as well as 1.0%, that would be enlightening.

All this talk about drying i don't get. Proximity, look at what you just said. You use bp, you try sa once, and deem it too irritating. I absolutely agree it is irritating at first, but you must acclimate. Further, I don't know about others here, but once I was actually doing my twice a day bp religiously, there was no more irritation. In the beginnning weeks, sure. But once you're acclimated to that and not getting irritation, you could start adding the sa. You'd get irritation off the bat, then you'd get used to it, just like the bp. Or at least that's what seems like, and what happened with me. I'm new around here, are there a lot of complaints of bp causing irritation in people who are over a month or two into the regimen, and using it as directed? I always thought that, eventually, your skin will become used to it and the irritation will cease.

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Wrestler, maybe this will help:

"Salicylic Acid works best at concentrations of between 1% and 2%, and at an optimal pH of 3, diminishing in effectiveness as you go past a pH of 4. SA loses its effectiveness as a product's pH goes up or the concentration of the ingredient goes down."

Source: Cosmetic Dermatology, October 2001, pages 15–18

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Yeah, this would be ideal. A regimen that would use BP and SA is perfect in theory, though the irritation is really too much for most people in reality.

Even without SA, BP alone dries and irritates your skin horribly. Most people already have problems with using BP twice a day, let alone using SA as a step in their regimen.

I once tried an SA moisturiser (I know the SA concentration in it was really low) right after BP, and my skin burned and stinged horribly.

About SA not working in lower concentrations than 1-2%, I've heard that somewhere too (not sure how true it is though).

That just wouldn't make sense that it needs to be a certain concentration, that idea suggests a threshold dose for effectiveness, which I cannot understand how it would work that way with this kind of product. If anyone could elaborate, even just explain why 0.5% doesn't work 50% as well as 1.0%, that would be enlightening.

All this talk about drying i don't get. Proximity, look at what you just said. You use bp, you try sa once, and deem it too irritating. I absolutely agree it is irritating at first, but you must acclimate. Further, I don't know about others here, but once I was actually doing my twice a day bp religiously, there was no more irritation. In the beginnning weeks, sure. But once you're acclimated to that and not getting irritation, you could start adding the sa. You'd get irritation off the bat, then you'd get used to it, just like the bp. Or at least that's what seems like, and what happened with me. I'm new around here, are there a lot of complaints of bp causing irritation in people who are over a month or two into the regimen, and using it as directed? I always thought that, eventually, your skin will become used to it and the irritation will cease.

Well I'm one of those people that you mentioned. I'm more than 2 months into the regimen and my skin is still red and irritated, despite me doing the regimen religiously and exactly as it should be done.

For some people adding SA is possible, because they are not that irritated or the irritation has subsided.

Yeah, it would be a great addition mainly because the redmarks would fade quicker and perhaps it would make some people that aren't yet 100% clear, clear.

The fact is, that there are studies which state that BP and SA just damage the skin too much together. BP already irritates, peels and creates free radicals, while SA destroys the skin's protective barrier and stops the skin from retaining moisture.

But you can try it, be our guinea pig and tell us how it worked :) . Then maybe others will join in and a new regimen will emerge.

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Wrestler, maybe this will help:

"Salicylic Acid works best at concentrations of between 1% and 2%, and at an optimal pH of 3, diminishing in effectiveness as you go past a pH of 4. SA loses its effectiveness as a product's pH goes up or the concentration of the ingredient goes down."

Source: Cosmetic Dermatology, October 2001, pages 15–18

That makes sense, but that was kind of implicit anyways - you use a lower %, and the effectiveness goes down. I assumed that much, but someone implied that it needed to be a certain % to work (unless i misread..). That implies a threshold dose for it to work, which is different than saying that a lower % is lower effectiveness, which should was probably assumed by most anyways.

Well I'm one of those people that you mentioned. I'm more than 2 months into the regimen and my skin is still red and irritated, despite me doing the regimen religiously and exactly as it should be done.

For some people adding SA is possible, because they are not that irritated or the irritation has subsided.

Yeah, it would be a great addition mainly because the redmarks would fade quicker and perhaps it would make some people that aren't yet 100% clear, clear.

The fact is, that there are studies which state that BP and SA just damage the skin too much together. BP already irritates, peels and creates free radicals, while SA destroys the skin's protective barrier and stops the skin from retaining moisture.

But you can try it, be our guinea pig and tell us how it worked :) . Then maybe others will join in and a new regimen will emerge.

I hate you, why did you have to mention the free radicals?? Every time i notice it's 'peroxide' i cringe lol.

I'm guinea piggin it right now, but I've done regimen for a bit now and am almost at 100%, i'm mostly just dealing with 0-3 very small ones right now, my focus is more on blackheads and redmarks, so i wouldn't make a decent test subject since i'm already 95% of my journey. Oh and I'm not saying the regimen did or did not clear me, I went on and off, and I'm in my early 20's, so I just may be naturally getting past it anyways, it's anyone's guess.

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