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Okay I use to have a good 3 serves of dairy a day but have recently stopped and to my surprise I have started to clear up.

I am sure that now I have discontinued all my dairy I am missing out on some important stuff (at the very least my calcium requirements).

I'm thinking of trying non-dairy milk (think soy etc) but will that still have the same problems as normal milk and acne? Does non-dairly milk have calcium?

Should I invest in some calcium vitamin pills?

Thanks for any insight guys!

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I like your quote.

Here are some calcium food sources that do not make me breakout:

-salmon with bones

-sardines

-seafood

-dark green leafy veggies

-almonds

-asparagus

-broccoli

-cabbage

-collards

-dandelion greens

-figs

-kale (filled with massive amounts of vitamin A-it's so great for the skin)

-prunes

-sesame seeds

-tofu/soy beans

-turnip greens

-watercress

Tastey herbs with calcium

-alfalfa

-burdock root

-flaxseed

-kelp

-lemongrass

-parsley

-raspberry leaves

-red clover

-rose hips

-violet leaves

-yellow dock

(Whey and goats milk also contain lots of calcium, some people find it breaks them out and others don't. I don't consume those two products so I can't comment)

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I have many friends who are dairy and meat free...and many are some pretty good athletes. So as long as your diet is varied, I wouldn't worry about your bones crumbling like honeycombs within the next few years. A dairy free diet is not unhealthy. In fact, there are many black people who are intolerant to dairy (it gives them severe stomach cramps within 20 minutes of eating any dairy). Are you just going dairy free or are you also going meat free? Whatever your choice, the FDA says that a meat AND dairy free diet that is varied can provide all nutrients. They also state that a meat/dairy free diet can satisfy the needs of infants, growing children and expectant mothers. So, if you are only dairy free, you definitely dont have anything to worry about.

I've found an official site that lists main calcium, protein and iron sources that do not come from meat or dairy:

Calcium: almonds, black beans, broccoli, calcium-fortified orange juice, collard greens, great northern beans, kale, kidney beans, mustard greens, navy beans, orange juice, pinto beans, sesame seeds, soybeans, soymilk, textured vegetable protein (TVP), tofu

Protein: almonds, black beans, brown rice, cashews, garbanzo beans (chickpeas), kidney beans, lentils, lima beans, peanut butter, pinto beans, seitan, soybeans, soymilk, sunflower seeds, textured vegetable protein (TVP), tofu, vegetarian hot dogs and burgers

Iron: black beans, bran flakes, cashews, Cream of Wheat®, garbanzo beans (chickpeas), GrapeNuts®, kidney beans, lentils, navy beans, oatmeal, pumpkin seeds, raisins, soybeans, soymilk, spinach, sunflower seeds, tofu, tomato juice, whole wheat bread

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Try raw whole milk from grass-fed cows. The standard store-bought stuff breaks me out, but I have no problems with raw milk.

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My whole problem with this is that I'm supposed to get 1300mg a day at my age and I'm going to struggle getting it from eating a handful of almonds and some raisins.

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CrazyLikeAFox... There are millions of dairy and meat free people in the world.

Dont worry about how much Calcium intake you are getting or that you have to scarf nuts all day to satisfy your requirements. I havent eaten dairy in about a year... and I've had blood tests done to make sure everything is in balance and that I'm not lacking anything. The tests did not only come back fine but had some of the healthiest results the department had ever seen. I do not scarf nuts all day.

Eat some almonds, have veggie soup, have a half-cup of almond or rice milk... eat your cereal or whatever you eat. Eat your whole-wheat sandwhiches. Just relax and eat properly. You will meat the requirements.

You'd be suprised how many vitamins veggies have. Broccoli is 45% protein.

Most black people CANT touch dairy, and they are basketball players and football players... and you never hear about them complaining that they have to lug around a suitcase full of almonds with them to get their calcium. :dance:

The Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (PCRM) says that meat and dairy cause bones to litterly desolve in the bloodstream because of the high amount of sulfur-containing amino acids in animal protein which is the leading cause of Osteoporosis. The Dairy Farmers Association keeps advertising that we MUST drink milk to get calcium. However, this is only a money-making sceme. Dairy does not give us more calcium than non-dairy items. In fact, in nutrition class, you learn that the more dairy you consume, the more calcium is stripped from your bones and sent out through your urine.

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My whole problem with this is that I'm supposed to get 1300mg a day at my age and I'm going to struggle getting it from eating a handful of almonds and some raisins.

One more time.....you can get almond milk from healthfood stores. You can take coral calcium.....you can survive and thrive quite easily without dairy.

My son has NEVER been on cow's milk one day of his life and the dentist said that his jaw and tooth development was actually a year ahead of schedule, and he has never had a cavity, and he's 13. It is simply a myth that you have to drink cow's milk to drink get calcium.

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Dark leafy greens are pretty high in calcium. A serving of canned spinach has about 10% of the RDA of calcium, and of turnip greens has about 15% of the RDA of calcium. If I remember correctly, a cup of milk doesn't have much more.

I did find a list online of veggie calcium contents:

Food Amount Milligrams of Calcium

Collard Greens 1 cup 355 mg

Bok Choy 1 cup 250 mg

Turnip Greens 1 cup 200 mg

Kale 1 cup 200 mg

Broccoli 1 cup 180 mg

Kelp (Seaweed) + cup 170 mg

Mustard Greens 1 cup 150 mg

Wakame (Seaweed) + cup 150 mg

Blackstrap Molasses 1 tablespoon 140 mg

Amaranth + cup 140 mg

Great Northern Beans 1 cup 140 mg

Dried Figs 5 figs 135 mg

Vegetarian Baked Beans 1 cup 130 mg

Navy Beans 1 cup 130 mg

Corn Tortilla 1 tortilla 120 mg

Fortified Orange Juice 6 ounces 120 mg

Kidney Beans 1 cup 115 mg

Black Beans 1 cup 105 mg

Okra 1 cup 90 mg

Acorn Squash 1 cup 90 mg

Pinto Beans 1 cup 85 mg

Tofu* + cup 130 mg

Soybeans* 1 cup 175 mg

* may be high in fat

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Calcium is found in significant amounts in many foods, including broccoli, kale, dandelion greens, collard greens, almonds, sesame seeds, blackstrap molasses, beans, and fortified beverages such as soy milk and orange juice. The calcium content of most foods can be found in the USDA National Nutrient Database.

Dairy products (such as milk, yogurt and cheese) do contain calcium, however they are not recommended as a dietary source because they contain a significant amount of saturated fat, which can contribute to cardiovascular disease. The calcium content of dairy products is also misleading because most of the calcium is used by the body in the digestion of milk protein (casein). This can lead to calcium deficiency and osteoporosis.

From Wikipedia on calcium

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One more time.....you can get almond milk from healthfood stores.

Almond milk is one of my staples, and the chocolate kind satisfies junk food cravings for me...

I know! Same thing with me... :D If I'm hungry at night and I know I shouldn't eat anything, then I'll drink some chocolate almond milk and all of the protein satisfies me totally. I buy Blue Diamond...it is delicious.

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Almonds have oxalic acid so the calcium in them probably isn't very absorbable.

You can take a calcium/magnesium supplement... I think it's pretty hard to get a large amount of calcium from food if you don't consume dairy.

But I honestly doubt that 1300 mg a day is necessary, even if that is what's recommended. I mean, that's like 4 cups of milk a day... who drinks that much? I think that raw, whole, organic milk (especially from goats) is healthy but I still think 4 cups a day would be too much. And you'd have to consume a TON of green vegetables (or other sources) to get that much calcium every day.

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food courses of calcium are frankly not good if we aren't talking about dairy. Plus alot of those dark green veggies have things in them that inhibit the absorption of calcium.

The best way is to take a supplement or some fortified food with calcium.

As for the type of supplement coral calcium isn't the be all end all. It's jsut calcium carbonate. Exactly the sameas the calciumcarbonate that is sold in any store cheaply. It doesn't have a higher bio availability. In fact I would take a citrate orordinary carbonate one made pure in a lab than one that is supposedly natural from coral which may contain heavy metals.

In short, just supplement with regular calcium carbonate or citrate and you'll be fine. Eat those good veggies more for the other nutrients.

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Coral calcium is a great source, and highly absorbable.

LOL!

Coral calcium contains calcium carbonate, which is one of the worst calcium salts to use as a supplement, dear. It's not very soluble. Use a better one like citrate.

Bryan

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Dairy products (such as milk, yogurt and cheese) do contain calcium, however they are not recommended as a dietary source because they contain a significant amount of saturated fat, which can contribute to cardiovascular disease. The calcium content of dairy products is also misleading because most of the calcium is used by the body in the digestion of milk protein (casein). This can lead to calcium deficiency and osteoporosis.

From Wikipedia on calcium

Oh my god...this is a powerful reminder to me to not necessarily trust everything that Wikipedia says. Butterfat in milk probably PROTECTS AGAINST HEART DISEASE, rather than contributes to it. Furthermore, butterfat enhances the absorption of calcium.

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.

Bryan

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Oh my god...this is a powerful reminder to me to not necessarily trust everything that Wikipedia says. Butterfat in milk probably PROTECTS AGAINST HEART DISEASE, rather than contributes to it. Furthermore, butterfat enhances the absorption of calcium.

Don't believe everything you read on Wikipedia.

Bryan

That really confuses me. Perhaps a vitamin in butterfat helps protect against heart disease, however, the fat in the butter is the huge cause of it. The nations that consume the most animal fats (dairy and meat), have the highest percentage of Heart Disease in the world. The stuff that they pull out of your heart when you are on the autopsy table is "remnants of animal fats" (that's the label). The fat is so thick that its like noodles. Also, it is interesting to note that people will get the most clogged arteries in the area that Asparatame (poison in Diet soft drinks) has caused the most scar damage (Just learned this from a doctor a few days ago).

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Coral calcium is a great source, and highly absorbable.

LOL!

Coral calcium contains calcium carbonate, which is one of the worst calcium salts to use as a supplement, dear. It's not very soluble. Use a better one like citrate.

Bryan

Yeah, LOL is right. Of course we can put up dueling links, studies, etc....and try to figure out which kind of calcium is best. Everyone has their opinions....md's, naturopaths, nutritionists, absolutely everyone has their own opinions, right? For every detracting post you make, I could put up links that show different than what you say, DEAR. :rolleyes:

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For every detracting post you make, I could put up links that show different than what you say, DEAR. :rolleyes:

Ok, provide me a link showing that calcium carbonate is as soluble as calcium citrate.

Bryan

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For every detracting post you make, I could put up links that show different than what you say, DEAR. :rolleyes:

Ok, provide me a link showing that calcium carbonate is as soluble as calcium citrate.

Bryan

***Most calcium in hard tablet form isn't very well absorbed; either calcium carbonate, citrate, etc.....that is probably the point I should have made. In any event, I have read information in the past about how calcium carbonate in the form of coral calcium does seem to be absorbed a bit better than other forms of calcium carbonate. The bolded portion below makes reference to what I probably read a few years ago. Nevertheless, I can buy a 400 serving 1 pound container of coral calcium for 18 bucks that lasts for at least 4-5 months; that is much cheaper in the long run than spending 30 bucks on the "good" calcium citrate that lasts for 2 weeks to 30 days...been there, done that.

Calcium: Which Form is Best?

See also: Calcium

Introduction

References

For adults, dairy products supply 72% of the calcium in the U.S. diet, grain products about 11% and fruits and vegetables about 6%.1 Milk drinkers get 80% more calcium in their diet compared to non-milk-drinkers.2 Apart from total calcium content, foods and supplements should be evaluated in terms of the bioavailability of the calcium they contained (i.e., how much of it is actually absorbed and utilized by the body.) Calcium absorption from various dairy products is similar, at about 30%.3 However, many people choose alternatives to milk and dairy products for health reasons, such as the prevention of atherosclerosis or food allergies. A variety of calcium-fortified nondairy beverages are now available. However, the bioavailability of calcium in these beverages may differ from that of milk. A study of calcium-fortified soy milk found that the calcium in it was absorbed at only 75% of the efficiency of the calcium in cow’s milk.4 While cow’s milk and fortified soy milk are therefore not equivalent as calcium sources, the difference can easily be overcome by either consuming more of the fortified soy beverage, or by consuming soy beverages fortified with proportionally higher amounts of calcium.

Dietary supplements may contain one of several different forms of calcium. One difference between the various calcium compounds is the percentage of elemental calcium present. A greater percentage of elemental calcium means that fewer tablets are needed to achieve the desired calcium intake. For instance, in the calcium carbonate form, calcium accounts for 40% of the compound, while the calcium citrate form provides 24% elemental calcium.

Many medical doctors recommend calcium carbonate because it requires the fewest pills to reach a given level of calcium and it is readily available and inexpensive. For people concerned about cost and only willing to swallow two to three calcium pills per day, calcium carbonate is a sensible choice. Even for these people, however, low-quality calcium carbonate supplements are less than ideal. Depending on how the tablet is manufactured, some calcium carbonate pills have been found to disintegrate and dissolve improperly, which could interfere with absorption.5 The disintegration of calcium carbonate pills can be easily evaluated by putting a tablet in a half cup of vinegar and stirring occasionally. After half an hour, no undissolved chunks of tablet should remain at the bottom.6

Calcium carbonate may not always show optimal absorption, but it clearly has positive effects. For example, calcium carbonate appears to be as well absorbed as the calcium found in milk.7 In fact, some studies indicate that calcium carbonate is absorbed as well as most other forms besides calcium citrate/malate (CCM).8 9 For example, a recent study found absorption of calcium from calcium carbonate to be virtually identical to absorption of calcium from calcium citrate.10

For people willing to take more pills to achieve a given amount of calcium (typically 800–1,000 mg), calcium carbonate does not appear to be the optimal choice, because other forms have been reported to be absorbed, absorb better (however, they do require more pills per day because each pill contains less calcium). For this reason, some doctors recommend other forms of calcium, particularly CCM. Research shows that CCM is absorbed better than most other forms.11 12 13 CCM may also be more effective in maintaining bone mass, than some other forms of calcium supplements.14 Because of their similarity in both name and structure, CCM can be confused with calcium citrate, but they are not the same.

CCM is not the only form of calcium that might be absorbed better than carbonate. For example, most,15 16 though not all,17 studies suggest that calcium citrate might have some absorption advantage over calcium carbonate. However, no evidence suggests that calcium citrate is as well absorbed as CCM.

Microcrystalline hydroxyapatite (MCHC), a variation on bonemeal, has attracted attention because of studies reporting increases in bone mass in people with certain conditions18 and better effects on bone than calcium carbonate.19 Similar positive studies exist using CCM.20 However, unlike CCM, MCHC has only occasionally been compared with other forms of calcium. In limited research that does make comparisons, MCHC fared poorly in terms of solubility, absorption, and effect on calcium metabolism.21 22

Remarkably little is known about the relative efficacy of amino acid chelates (pronounced “kee-lates�) of calcium. In the only commonly cited trial, absorption was measured for an amino acid chelate called calcium bisglycinate and compared with absorption from citrate, carbonate, and MCHC.23 In that trial, the amino acid chelate showed the best absorption and MCHC the worst. Although CCM was studied in that trial, it was taken under different circumstances than the chelate (with meals), so drawing definitive conclusions is not possible.

Recently, coral calcium has been claimed to be a vastly superior form of calcium, even though its calcium content is primarily calcium carbonate. One small, controlled human study reported that coral calcium was better absorbed than ordinary calcium carbonate.24 However, the method used in this study to measure calcium absorption has been criticized as much less sensitive than other methods 25 . No research has compared coral calcium to calcium citrate or to CCM. There is little evidence at this time that coral calcium is superior to other forms of calcium.

Whatever the form, calcium supplements typically are absorbed better when eaten with meals.26 Moreover, research indicates that taking calcium with meals may reduce the risk of kidney stones and supplementing with calcium between meals might actually increase the risk.27

Besides how to take calcium supplements, scientists have also been studying when to take them. Supplementing calcium in the evening appears better for osteoporosis prevention than taking calcium in the morning, based on the circadian rhythm of bone loss.28 In order to not increase the risk of forming kidney stones, most doctors tell people to take calcium supplements only with food.

What is the relationship between calcium supplements and stomach acid? Years ago, researchers reported that people who do not make hydrochloric acid in their stomachs cannot absorb calcium adequately when the calcium is taken alone.29 In that report, adding hydrochloric acid restored normal calcium absorption. Although researchers have subsequently confirmed these findings, they have also discovered that these same people absorb calcium normally if they take it with meals. In addition, researchers have noted that giving these people hydrochloric acid does not further improve absorption during meals.30 Others have confirmed that hydrochloric acid, either from pills or from the stomach, is unnecessary for the absorption of calcium, as long as the calcium supplement is taken with meals.31 32 33 34

Some doctors have expressed a concern that antacids that contain calcium (like Tums®) or calcium supplements that also act as antacids, interfere with the body’s absorption of calcium. However, this is not the case. Calcium carbonate, the principal ingredient in both Tums and many calcium supplements provides significant (though not optimal) absorbable calcium, as discussed above. Other forms of calcium that might be more bio-available, such as calcium citrate, also act as antacids. The form of calcium associated most consistently with best bio-availability, CCM, is itself, an antacid despite the fact it is used almost exclusively as a source of calcium.

Other concerns about the antacid effect of most calcium supplements (particularly when taken by people who do not need and are not seeking an antacid) are voiced by some doctors because stomach acid is needed to protect against bacterial infection and also to help digest protein. In theory, calcium supplements with antacid activity could at least temporarily interfere with these processes. However, to date, these concerns remain hypothetical.

Copyright © 2004 Healthnotes, Inc. All rights reserved. www.healthnotes.com

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That really confuses me. Perhaps a vitamin in butterfat helps protect against heart disease, however, the fat in the butter is the huge cause of it. The nations that consume the most animal fats (dairy and meat), have the highest percentage of Heart Disease in the world.

So how do you explain the "French Paradox"? ;)

That overly-simplistic "butterfat is bad" attitude is just more of the same old saturated-fat-BAD, unsaturated-fat-GOOD line that the medical establishment has been force-feeding us for decades (at least until more recent, enlightened times). For an excellent overview of why I feel that's an old-fashioned concept whose time has passed, see the chapter on heart disease (and don't forget to read the detailed footnotes in the back!) in Roger William's excellent book Nutrition Against Disease. It's an eye-opener. He has material specifically addressing the issue of butterfat in milk.

The stuff that they pull out of your heart when you are on the autopsy table is "remnants of animal fats" (that's the label). The fat is so thick that its like noodles.

That is SO misleading and prejudicial, I don't know where to begin.

Bryan

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