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I also wonder if anyone know songs/music that are effective for you as a sleeping aids

I cant believe i forgot about music :doh: when i couldn't sleep music was fantastic, i got an mp3 player and made a playlist of all kinds of soothing music mostly classical, just type in classical in erm... "itunes" ;) and download some of them i knew nothing about classical music before then i just though it was boring shit for old people but maybe these boring old people know more than you think... my personal favorites were/are: delibes flower duet, vivaldi four seasons and mozart's fur elise. damn i could listen to fur elise all night.

Also soft music with a ladies voice is good, psychologists say men hear a womans voice as song rather than individual words. cardigans No Sleep would be an appropriate choice :D. You see what i did there... cos you cant sleep, get it No Sleep, nevermind.

You could do the whole whale music / waves on a beach stuff but that really pissed me off, i'm trying to sleep not overcome a fear of water... what will they think of next, crickets, angry baboons! :snooty:

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I had bad insomnia for awhile. It was wrecking my life. I'd completely exhaust myself with exercise only to be staying awake in my bed for hours at night, went through the whole OTC/herbal/prescription sleeping pills thing. What worked for me was 5-HTP to get more serotonin flowing in the brain, it worked pretty fsat too. Other then that, it's VERY important to go asleep at near the same hour every night and avoid light. Meditation has actually been shown to increase melatonin too, it's like the supplement but free :)

By the way, everyone drifts their thoughts when they meditate in the beginning, you just let the thoughts flow through you and relax. Try to pay attention as close as possible to your breathes. If you hear a siren or something, don't fret, just put as much consciousness into the siren until it's gone; feel and breathe it. Then return to paying attention to your breahtes. It's as simple as that. There's other methods too like mantras and all that, visualization... etc.

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I cant believe i forgot about music :doh: when i couldn't sleep music was fantastic, i got an mp3 player and made a playlist of all kinds of soothing music mostly classical, just type in classical in erm... "itunes" ;) and download some of them i knew nothing about classical music before then i just though it was boring shit for old people but maybe these boring old people know more than you think... my personal favorites were/are: delibes flower duet, vivaldi four seasons and mozart's fur elise. damn i could listen to fur elise all night.

Thanks ... I'm listening to delibes right now: it's wonderful ... I love it

Now I want to make a playlist with music that soothes and help sleeping or relaxation ...

If anyone is interested I will post it when I know what works and what don't (for me)

I could even try heavy metal as Elsewhere suggested ... who knows

I had bad insomnia for awhile. It was wrecking my life.

it's like wrecking indeed ... I don't function when I don't sleep well like I'm tired, insecure, paranoid, confused ... can't remember thing or enjoy what's going on ...

I will try to meditate and see if I have any question

To begin: how long meditation should last?

How do I know I'm into the meditation state and it is working?

Should I just sit and breath?

- - - - - - -

Okay I managed to fall asleep at midnight this night

But it wasn't a restful sleep

I woke up more tired than I was before, I had strange dreams all night involving me having the strangest feeling like feeling absolutely scared or sad and crying. I woke up at 5:30 am and the dark street I could see from the balcony was so depressing. I had dry mouth and aching eyes

It seems my insomnia is not only a problem concerning falling asleep but sleeping well too

I slept almost 6 hours and I feel like I had not slept at all :(

any advice about this?

sleeping bad like this makes me depressed as if bad sleeping were affecting my mood hormones and I can only see black and can only have black and white thinking. I also like I can't detach from the dream ... the world around me feels different as if it was still affected by the mood of the dream

Does that even happened to you?

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Meditation - just 10 or 15 minutes is all you need. Start small and work your way, try for 5 minutes of quality meditation and go up to 10 then 15. If you're really good you can get 30 minutes, an hour, half the day... It takes practice just like anything else. What you should do is in your waking hours go to a library and check out a book on it, because it will explain it a lot better then me. The meditative state is basically when thoughts stop flowing and the only thing you're conscious of is your breathe. Eventually you'll lose consciousness of your body, etc. Anyways, the key is not to obsess, you have to relax and let things flow. Just let the breathe flow in and out, feel it either in your nostrils, chest or stomach, whichever feels most comfortable, and when distracting things come along (they always do) just let them flow through you like water in a stream. haha.

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Maybe slightly off track, but I have problems with sleep too. I do manage to get to sleep before midnight, but wake at 4am every single night, without fail. I've heard it's possibly something to do with my liver - my friend, who also wakes consistenly in the early am and has skin problems, spoke to her natural therpist about it who confirmed with her about the waking in the early AM being related to liver weakness. She was told that eastern medicine believes that the organs work in cycles, and the peak cycle for the liver is during the early morning hours i.e. between 1-4AM. If the liver is weak, then you'll tend to wake up because it's not strong enough to keep you asleep during it's peak activity. How does this sound to everyone?

like a crock o' shit, ask your doctor why you wake up.

Yeah this is a MF'ing crock of MF'ing bullshiat. There are dozens of reasons why you might not sleep well, wake up often, or take extra time getting to sleep but this is not one of them.

C'mon now, the liver is not responsible for "kepping you asleep", or waking you up.

I don't even need to be a doctor to figure this one out. If the liver did function like this and the liver was waking you up then it would be doing so for a reason. That means it's waking you up "To Do Something", and that something isn't simply to just wake.

The logic that the liver isn't strong enough to keep you sleeping IS BASSACKWARDS. The liver is expending more energy and effort while you are awake, not sleeping, therefore we can conclude that the liver (or any organ) is at it's most restful when you are asleep, which means that it does not follow a cycle of it's own independantly but rather follows your own sleep pattern.

Also if the liver had a cycle of any kind it would be referring to processing toxins after you eat. If it had indepandant cycles then of strong and weak then we would be in trouble because we couldn't eat certain thing at certain times or we'd risk death.

The fact is that a healthy liver (or any organ) is prepared to work to it's full potential at any time it is required to do so.

Julia Chang says on her website that a clogged liver stops bile flow right at peak hours when the liver is trying desperately to cleanse the blood, and this action keeps you awake.

http://www.sensiblehealth.com/

In my experience, this is exactly right.

Candida and clogged bowel tend to keep me awake too.

I had the kind of insomnia that would make you blow your head off my whole adult life ......

Thanks Denise - it helps to know this. I just find it so weird that I can wake consistently at the same time every night. I've been on a candida diet since November last yr, and even though I am now slightly more relaxed about what I eat, I know I'm still not ingesting any stimulants or even natural foods that might cause it. I have had digestive issues too while on this diet - i.e. my reflexologist said she could feel my sigmund (sp!) colon was congested. For almost a yr now I have been taking a herbal tablet that combines milk thistle, phyllanthus and dandelion... how else can I work on a sluggish liver? (Other than liver cleanses, as I'm not keen on the idea of them). You might want to pm me if you prefer, to save hi-jacking Danny's thread :)

ps it has been a very stressful year too, but I'm in a good place now. Also whoever said that sleep deprivation might be self-fulfilling... I totally believe that could be entirelty possible too, the mind works in mysterious ways!

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For almost a yr now I have been taking a herbal tablet that combines milk thistle, phyllanthus and dandelion... how else can I work on a sluggish liver? (Other than liver cleanses, as I'm not keen on the idea of them). You might want to pm me if you prefer, to save hi-jacking Danny's thread :)

No problem at all

I like off-topic let alone ramifications of the original topic

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Hmm - Hate to go against the general view but I think that any kind of stimulation - music, tv, lights even books, can work against getting to sleep and staying asleep. The one exception is doing exercise because although that is stimulating it will also tire you out and make your sleep more intense. I am with the person who said get into a routine. Also check out your sleep environment - make sure it is dark and quiet and will stay that way until you are ready to wake up. If it helps takes a warm soothing drink.

Be sure you are staying away from caffeine (coffe, tea, chocolate). Leafy greens can be very calming and have helped many people with insomnia. Try a big salad, or green smoothies: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=108917 Also, carbs can help before bedtime as well. Good luck! :)

:lol: I love it that you solution to everything is green leafy drinks!

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I just find it so weird that I can wake consistently at the same time every night. I've been on a candida diet since November last yr...

That isn't one of those zero to low carb anti-candida diets is it? the ones that can cause you to go hypo in the night and wake up?

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No problem at all

I like off-topic let alone ramifications of the original topic

Thanks Danny! I hope you find some relief soon. Unlike you I do manage to get some sleep on a regular basis, but never a full night's sleep, and like you I have my fair share of nights where I am so tired but just cannot drop off, and when I do, I have the weirdest dreams. I almost always still feel tired in the morning, and yawn during the day. I have noticeable circles around my eyes too... I know something isn't right.

That isn't one of those zero to low carb anti-candida diets is it? the ones that can cause you to go hypo in the night and wake up?

Can you tell me more about this please when you have time Nick? I do follow a fairly low carb, high fat and protein diet at the moment, but I had no idea that could be the cause of my sleep interruption...? Thanks!

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My message is not going to be really helpful but yesterday I watched The Machinist which is about a guy that didn't sleep for one year.

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That isn't one of those zero to low carb anti-candida diets is it? the ones that can cause you to go hypo in the night and wake up?

Can you tell me more about this please when you have time Nick? I do follow a fairly low carb, high fat and protein diet at the moment, but I had no idea that could be the cause of my sleep interruption...? Thanks!

Well as you say that you follow a low carb diet it's a possibility that you wake up because of it. When you sleep your energy needs (allthough less) are met by your liver which stores glucose, if for whatever reason (such as low carb intake) you are unable to maintain suficient sugar in your blood stream then a resulting compensatory reaction would be a release of adrenaline and subsequently you wake up.

To prevent this from happening you would need to eat more carbs throughout the day (not just before bed), exercise would also be benefical as you can increase your liver storage capacity more than 100% (i think an average person can store upto 1500Kcal of glycogen in thier liver with endurance athletes being able to store 3500Kcal but dont quote me on that), you would have to build up to this slowly though, dont just go for a mad run.

I would like to make perfectly clear that this is only a possibility, many different things could cause you to wake up. you should most certainly see your doctor about this, im sure they can find out why this is happening very quickly and acurately.

you should also know that there are many stupid and outright dangerous dietry advice given out, many people avocate dietry advice based on nonsense like x people of southern milrankaleeky island eat no carbs and have no disease so carbs equal disease, yeah right its that simple... humans are super complex so its no good saying x is bad for you becuase it does this which is bad, as by that logic everything would be bad, becuase everything is killing you, that healthy organic apple, that nice carrot its alll killing you just some things (McDonalds et al) do it more quickly than others.

I dont want to get into a philosophical debate about food, im just saying dont worry about carbs there are plenty of VERY healthy sources, fruits, vegetables, quinoa, rice... etc these are not bad foods no matter what any nobead says, the trick to a healthy diet is eating the healthiest foods for each macronutrient. and getting enough of everything without getting too much of something. balance is everthing, and if your woried about candida get tested, no point treating something if you dont even know whether you have it.

This response was a lot longer than i anticipated. :shifty:

EDIT: oh yeah are you sweating/hot/cold when you wake up? this is a sign of what i was saying but doesn't appear in everyone.

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you should also know that there are many stupid and outright dangerous dietry advice given out, many people avocate dietry advice based on nonsense like x people of southern milrankaleeky island eat no carbs and have no disease so carbs equal disease, yeah right its that simple... humans are super complex so its no good saying x is bad for you becuase it does this which is bad, as by that logic everything would be bad, becuase everything is killing you, that healthy organic apple, that nice carrot its alll killing you just some things (McDonalds et al) do it more quickly than others.

Great post, NDN, I hadn't thought about that effect of low-carb diets but it makes lots of sense... a lot of hypo incidents in diabetics happen at night too... though that's usually from an insulin error.

That last bit there reminded me of a lyric from a Cake song... the song is called "Sheep go to Heaven," (it's a weird song):

"As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time."

Anyway, that's pretty irrelevant... but everything you said was good.

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Great post, NDN, I hadn't thought about that effect of low-carb diets but it makes lots of sense... a lot of hypo incidents in diabetics happen at night too... though that's usually from an insulin error.

That last bit there reminded me of a lyric from a Cake song... the song is called "Sheep go to Heaven," (it's a weird song):

"As soon as you're born you start dying, so you might as well have a good time."

Anyway, that's pretty irrelevant... but everything you said was good.

Thanks, LOL that song is crap, "sheep go to heaven goats go to hell" :lol: :lol: wtf is that all about, don't you have coldplay over there? :D

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The worst known effect of very low carb diet in the connection between brain hormones and diet is a dangerous lowering of serotonin and beta-endorphins levels

Fat as a substrate or ketone bodies don't absolutely work as carbs in opening the cell door to thriptophan

Dr. DesMaisons doesn't promote very low carb because of this reason that many have overlooked

When I used to be active on the "active low carb forum" I remember many people who never had depression who suddenly became so sad and discouraged that they had to stop assuming so little carbs

I remember this young guy posts (I've been on LC for a week, and I'm ready to take a walk into the

ocean. Could it be the diet?) who kept asking help and even after months hsi depression didn't improve even if he had never suffered from depression before and of course had to goes back fo moderate carbs

It doesn't affect everyone in the same manner and doesn't affect some at all, but it's something to consider and low carb is not for everyone, there are tons of failure to thrive in the diet ... we're all different

you should also know that there are many stupid and outright dangerous dietry advice given out, many people avocate dietry advice based on nonsense like x people of southern milrankaleeky island eat no carbs and have no disease so carbs equal disease, yeah right its that simple... humans are super complex

it's good to read someone who acknowledges complexity and doesn't promote exaggerated claims, narrow approaches, black and white thinking and ampliative logic

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Be sure you are staying away from caffeine (coffe, tea, chocolate). Leafy greens can be very calming and have helped many people with insomnia. Try a big salad, or green smoothies: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=108917 Also, carbs can help before bedtime as well. Good luck! :)

:lol: I love it that you solution to everything is green leafy drinks!

LOL, yeah, I actually do firmly believe that green smoothies can help with any health problem! In the past few years studying health, I believe green smoothies to be the most important health discovery I have made.

Danny, have you tried fish oil? It greatly helps with brain functioning, as I'm sure you already know. Also, I've read that it's a good idea to stay away from alcholol as well, as it will interfere with a good nights rest and will interefere with REM sleep... not that I think you're drinking alcohol all the time. haha

You might find it helpful to read some of the articles at Dr. Mercola's website on insomnia: Insomnia

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Well as you say that you follow a low carb diet it's a possibility that you wake up because of it. When you sleep your energy needs (allthough less) are met by your liver which stores glucose, if for whatever reason (such as low carb intake) you are unable to maintain suficient sugar in your blood stream then a resulting compensatory reaction would be a release of adrenaline and subsequently you wake up.

To prevent this from happening you would need to eat more carbs throughout the day (not just before bed), exercise would also be benefical as you can increase your liver storage capacity more than 100% (i think an average person can store upto 1500Kcal of glycogen in thier liver with endurance athletes being able to store 3500Kcal but dont quote me on that), you would have to build up to this slowly though, dont just go for a mad run.

I would like to make perfectly clear that this is only a possibility, many different things could cause you to wake up. you should most certainly see your doctor about this, im sure they can find out why this is happening very quickly and acurately.

you should also know that there are many stupid and outright dangerous dietry advice given out, many people avocate dietry advice based on nonsense like x people of southern milrankaleeky island eat no carbs and have no disease so carbs equal disease, yeah right its that simple... humans are super complex so its no good saying x is bad for you becuase it does this which is bad, as by that logic everything would be bad, becuase everything is killing you, that healthy organic apple, that nice carrot its alll killing you just some things (McDonalds et al) do it more quickly than others.

I dont want to get into a philosophical debate about food, im just saying dont worry about carbs there are plenty of VERY healthy sources, fruits, vegetables, quinoa, rice... etc these are not bad foods no matter what any nobead says, the trick to a healthy diet is eating the healthiest foods for each macronutrient. and getting enough of everything without getting too much of something. balance is everthing, and if your woried about candida get tested, no point treating something if you dont even know whether you have it.

This response was a lot longer than i anticipated. :shifty:

EDIT: oh yeah are you sweating/hot/cold when you wake up? this is a sign of what i was saying but doesn't appear in everyone.

Thanks for all the info Nick, I do appreciate it.

I know you're not directing that at me personally, but please don't worry about me following an unhealthy diet - I have followed a sensible eating plan put together by my nutritionist (who already tested me for candida) initially and then moving on to Bee Wilder's candida/healing diet based on the Optimum Diet. When I say low carb, I don't mean that I've eliminated them or strive to eliminate them, just that I choose to eat lower carb vegetables (I love my vegetables!) rather than the higher carb food such as grains - as a general rule, although I do eat quinoa and oats, as far as grains go their nutritional value outweighs the bad.

Anyways, I still think your suggestion is worth thinking about... so I'll give it some more thought. Thanks again.

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Meditation - just 10 or 15 minutes is all you need. Start small and work your way, try for 5 minutes of quality meditation and go up to 10 then 15. If you're really good you can get 30 minutes, an hour, half the day... It takes practice just like anything else. What you should do is in your waking hours go to a library and check out a book on it, because it will explain it a lot better then me. The meditative state is basically when thoughts stop flowing and the only thing you're conscious of is your breathe. Eventually you'll lose consciousness of your body, etc. Anyways, the key is not to obsess, you have to relax and let things flow. Just let the breathe flow in and out, feel it either in your nostrils, chest or stomach, whichever feels most comfortable, and when distracting things come along (they always do) just let them flow through you like water in a stream. haha.

So what I do when I'm distracted by thoughts, like I'm focusing on my breath and suddenly I have all kind of weird (abstract or every-day life) thoughts haunting my mind

unconsciously my attention focuses on these thoughts and I forget about my breath

If my attention keep bounching from my breath to my weird thought I don't even lose consciousness of my body or make my mind blank

What's the solution?

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clogged liver and a dirty bowel...Candida and clogged bowel tend to keep me awake too.

All I can say is that's definitely misinformation right there.

Who cares what you think? :rolleyes: If you had taken the time to click on the SENSIBLE HEALTH link I provided, you would understand what is being communicted.

I used to have to take 6-7 mgs of melatonin PLUS sleep-inducing herbal concoctions just to try to sleep, and those high doseages didn't even always work. I exercised, ate well, had a cup of tea in the MORNING ONLY, and on top of that, my insomnia was so severe during the last trimester of my pregnancy, the doctor wanted to put me on sleeping pills. I refused because I knew they crossed the placenta and could harm the baby....STUPID DOCTOR even told me that it would effect the baby. So I simply suffered with having to sleep 3 hours every night for 3 whole entire months straight, and far along in my pregnancy, and I couldn't nap, either.

I had severe insomnia my whole adult life and I've been into holistic health for 16-17 years at this point.

I don't need to take anything now. You think I'm too stupid to figure out that 1 plus 1 equals 2? This isn't rocket science....gee, duh...I had insomnia that would make the average person blow their brains out, and NOW, I don't need *ANYTHING* to help me sleep.

This is common for many people. Many people who have had clogged livers and dirty bowels can sleep way better, those who have done cleanses, flushes, etc....all of a sudden....CAN SLEEP BETTER! Wow! Maybe there is something to this.

And one more thing....the sleeping better was just simply a side benefit I WASN'T EXPECTING when I did cleansing. Most people who do liver flushing and bowel cleansing start to notice things in their bodies changing...I had moles fall off....I slept better....blood sugar levels totally improved.....skin cleared....facial hair disappeared.....hormonal levels all changed.....fatigue disappeared.....irisitis that could have caused me to go blind totally gone....etc......ALL GONE.

These symptoms don't happen in a vaccuum, the sooner we understand this, the better.

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Insomnia and Candida

Improving poor intestinal flora may gradually help a person get better sleep. There are several things associated with Candida overgrowth that will affect sleep. Excess ammonia, excess histamine, food allergies, low magnesium, and immune system changes are all associated with Candida and they may contribute to the sleep problem.

One of the reasons for poor sleep is excess ammonia. Some intestinal bacteria produce a lot of ammonia. Ammonia causes an increase in serotonin turnover. This increased turnover of serotonin is thought to cause sleep disturbances. Changing the intestinal flora by using things like bifidus and lactulose can reduce the ammonia in the body.

Yeast don’t make a lot of ammonia, so their contribution to the sleep problem is probably less dramatic. However, getting rid of yeast may help. Yeast make a toxin called acetylaldehyde. This depletes alpha ketoglutaric acid. Alpha ketoglutaric acid helps the body remove ammonia. Yeast also deplete taurine and coenzyme B6. These are also important for good sleep.

IgG allergy reactions to food can cause sleep disturbances. Candida is often associated with food allergies. Therefore, in this manner, Candida overgrowth may be indirectly interfering with sleep. Certain cytokines and antibodies to cytokines can also disturb sleep. These cytokines can be increased by the body’s reaction to intestinal flora. This is yet another way that the intestinal flora may alter sleep patterns.

Sometimes an antihistamine taken at night helps people fall asleep. To reduce histamine formation, more magnesium may be helpful. Also, correcting a thyroid problem can help too. In hypothyroidism, it is common for there to be an excess of histamine. Candida overgrowth may be part of the problem here, because it may induce hypothyroidism and reduce magnesium levels.

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So what I do when I'm distracted by thoughts, like I'm focusing on my breath and suddenly I have all kind of weird (abstract or every-day life) thoughts haunting my mind

unconsciously my attention focuses on these thoughts and I forget about my breath

If my attention keep bounching from my breath to my weird thought I don't even lose consciousness of my body or make my mind blank

What's the solution?

This happens quite alot to me in yoga. When I notice my mind drifting I once again focus my attention back on my breath. I may have to do it several times, but eventually I do nod off (which isn't always cool, particularly in the middle of a yoga class!)

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Hey Danny,

I have struggled with this problem too. I did tons of research, read lots of books on sleep, and this is what worked for me and has been scientifically proven to work based on the way the human body works:

1. Get as much sunlight as possible while the sun is up. This means, if you are inside, all blinds should be wide open at all times and you should be in a place where you are staring outside. If you are in a place with poor natural lighting, you must go outside. Wake up at sunrise everyday using a dawn simulator or a regular alarm clock if necessary. Immediately upon waking up, take a 15 minute walk outside.

2. Do some exercise every day between 9AM and 11AM. The goal of this exercise is to raise your body temperature to the point where you are sweating and breathing heavily. It can be short, as little as 5 minutes, as long as your temperature has been raised sufficiently.

3. Only go to sleep when you are tired. Never try to force yourself to sleep or do useless relaxation techniques. Your body will tell you when you can sleep. Only get into bed when you are completely tired and could definitely sleep through the night. Stay up as long as you have to until you get tired.

4. Sleep in complete darkness. Block out all light coming in through the windows in your bedroom using blackout blinds or cardboard. Cover your alarm clock lights and never use night-lights in your bedroom.

5. You should take naps during the day when you are tired, but make sure to take them in the sunlight. Always keep the blinds wide open wherever you take a nap or even take a nap outside at a park in the daylight.

If you are doing all of the above, after a week or two your sleep will normalize.

If you have any questions, let me know.

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clogged liver and a dirty bowel...Candida and clogged bowel tend to keep me awake too.

All I can say is that's definitely misinformation right there.

Serotonin is found extensively in the human gastrointestinal tract, as well as in the blood stream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serotonin

Then refer to Denise' post about poor intestinal flora, ammonia, and serotonin, and put the pieces together.

I used to have insomnia too. I tried all the prescription / OTC meds, herbs like valerian, all that. The only thing that cleared it up was 5-HTP, the precursor to Tryptophan.

In the body, serotonin is synthesized from the amino acid tryptophan by a short metabolic pathway consisting of two enzymes — TPH(1,2) and DDC. TPH1 reaction controls the flux through the pathway.

Guitarskinz, do you take probiotics or what? Anything to help the GI tract?

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