Jump to content
Acne.org
Search In
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Recommended Posts

Will borage oil help control my hormones the same as epo?

borage usually works better. it contains more GLA. however there are some concerns over taking a lot of borage oil over a long period of time as discussed here:

http://www.udoerasmus.com/articles/udo/epo_expanded.htm

other people say there is nothing wrong with borage oil. its discussed on page 11 of this thread

borage has more gla, i thinks its the better choice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Guys,

Been using EPO now for about a month with a noticeable improvement in skin condition. However, I still get the occassional spot every week and my forehead still has a few blackheads. I'd like to put an end to this if possible.

What I've been taking on a daily basis:

2x 1300mg Evening Primrose Oil (117mg GLA)

2x 1200mg Soya Lecithin

1x Vitamin C (500mg) and Vitamin E (400iu)

1x Chelated Zinc (25mg)

My main concern here is that I haven't been getting enough GLA, when Acne Wars recommends an optimum dosage of something between 200 and 800mg - I'm only getting 234mg GLA. Problem is, the label on my EPO bottle states that I shouldn't exceed the maximum dose of 2 capsules daily. So I don't want to exceed the maximum dosage, but I might not be getting enough GLA. Are there any other or supplements I should be taking to boost my GLA?

Alternatively, I may be taking too much Soya Lecithin, so I will certainly lower the dosage, there. I am making sure I drink lots of fruit juice, eat fruit during the day (to boost vitamin C count) and vegetables where possible.

I've also noticed a few white spots on my finger nails - maybe I should be taking a magnesium supplement, too?

Best course of action?

analyze your diet and bring your fat ratio of omega 6 to 3 somewhere around 1-4:1 aim for 1:1.

and from the studies ive been reading, epa and dha has alot to do with the potent effects on sebum glands. even though gla also plays an important role as well but if you want better effects on sebum production you could also get more dha and epa.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's true that a too high ratio of omega 3 : omega 6 where omega 6 is too dominating causes inflammations in the body... maybe that's a big cause of acne?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been taking 2 tbsp of flaxseed oil for months with no marked improvement with my acne, but I'm having really great results since I added evening primrose oil two weeks ago. It's gotten even better when I added 1/2 teaspoon of borage oil and 3600mg of lecithin. I have moderate persistant acne mostly located on my chin, jawline and neck and it has been rapidly clearing. I also cut out all dairy and wheat fom my diet.

I just had my period and I should have had a massive breakout, but this time it was reasonable. Not only that but I had no cramps whatsoever. :dance:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been taking 2 tbsp of flaxseed oil for months with no marked improvement with my acne, but I'm having really great results since I added evening primrose oil two weeks ago. It's gotten even better when I added 1/2 teaspoon of borage oil and 3600mg of lecithin. I have moderate persistant acne mostly located on my chin, jawline and neck and it has been rapidly clearing. I also cut out all dairy and wheat fom my diet.

I just had my period and I should have had a massive breakout, but this time it was reasonable. Not only that but I had no cramps whatsoever. :dance:

the evening primrose oil is giving you better results because it has GLA in it. the borage oil helped even more because it is even higher in gla.

The flax oil wasnt helpnig you because there is no gla, dha or epa. even though it has high amounts of ala which can eventually be converted into dha and epa thats takes a long time. The best way to get dha and epa is through a fish oil supplement particularly one that has a high concentration of dha and epa. the epa is really gonna have an even greater effect on you i believe, so it would be a good idea to start taking a fish oil supplement and consider cutting out the epo and continue taking the borage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
It's true that a too high ratio of omega 3 : omega 6 where omega 6 is too dominating causes inflammations in the body... maybe that's a big cause of acne?

here check this out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EFA_to_Eicosanoids.svg

the red box shows how arachidonic acid leads to the production of pro inflammatory eicosanoids(omega 6 side), and the blue box next to dpa shows how it leads to the less inflammatory production of eicosanoids(omega 3 side).

ltb4and pge2(red box) has been proven to stimulate the sebaceous glands by combining with ppar ligands for retinoid x receptors that control apoptosis and proliferation. ltb4 and pge2 basically tell the cells to multply in abundance and in an out of control fashion.

this is the science the backs up the theory that will hopefully ring true for all of us.

so the goals are to

inhibit arachidonic acid-GLA does this

balance omega 6 to omega 3 in the right ratio of 1:1

encourage the production of less and anti inflammatory eicosanoids by taking epa and dha that will up regulate the ppar ligands that will bind to the rxr receptor and tell the cells to normalize and induce apoptosis.

here is some proof

Enzymes involved in the biosynthesis of leukotriene B4 and prostaglandin E2 are active in sebaceous glands.

2006 Jan

Department of Dermatology, Charite Universitaetsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Fabeckstrasse 60-62, 14195 Berlin, Germany.

The expression of enzymes involved in leukotriene and prostaglandin signalling pathways, of interleukins 6 and 8 and of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in sebaceous glands of acne-involved facial skin was compared with those of non-involved skin of acne patients and of healthy individuals. Moreover, 5-lipoxygenase and leukotriene A(4) hydrolase were expressed at mRNA and protein levels in vivo and in SZ95 sebocytes in vitro (leukotriene A(4) hydrolase > 5-lipoxygenase), while 15-lipoxygenase-1 was only detected in cultured sebocytes. Cyclooxygenase-1 and cyclooxygenase-2 were also present. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors were constitutively expressed. Enhanced 5-lipoxygenase, cyclooxygenase 2 and interleukin 6 expression was detected in acne-involved facial skin. Arachidonic acid stimulated leukotriene B(4) and interleukin 6 release as well as prostaglandin E(2) biosynthesis in SZ95 sebocytes,induced abundant increase in neutral lipidsand down-regulated peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-alpha, but not receptor-gamma1 mRNA levels, which were the predominant peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor isotypes in SZ95 sebocytes. In conclusion, human sebocytes possess the enzyme machinery for functional leukotriene and prostaglandin pathways. A comprehensive link between inflammation and sebaceous lipid synthesis is provided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok all you experts :) I have a question. I've been taking borage oil for a couple of years with really no results. I take about 2000 mg a day. I've taken it (months at a time) with fish oil, salmon oil, c, zinc, ALA, E, uhhhh I can't remember it all. I would like to try EPO instead, BUT, I've read that epileptics should not take it. The best I can figure out is because the GLA reduces the threshold for seizures. Wouldn't borage oil do the same? My borage oil label has no warning, so I'm confused.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Short guide to acne free skin in a few days via supplementation and following dietary guidelines:

1. take borage oil (starflower oil), about 2-3g/day

2. take highly absorbable multivit & min, vit c & dry vit e

3. eat foods with vit & min content

4. avoid sat. fats, trans fats, hydro fats, veg. fats, monosat. fats & sugar

5. take small amount of fish oil (about 1/4 of the borage oil taken)

6. avoid animal milk, meat & eggs

7. mix high glycemic foods with low glycemic foods

---------------

8. add zinc and magnesium supplements.

9. test for candida, if positive kill candida via threelac and low/no sugar diet

The basic aim is to increase anti-inflammatories and lower pro-inflammatories on a hormonal and cellular level.

I wrote a book on the whole matter. PM me for more info.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
when you started taking the primrose oil did you stop eating junk food and start eating healthy?

yes, good point.

remember that this is all theory anyways there are no studys that directly prove that this actually works to eliminate any acne.

dont get mad if it doesnt work.

the only difference is there is alot of related evidence, unlike lets say taking apple cider vinegar where there is very little real evidence that it would help your acne.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok all you experts :) I have a question. I've been taking borage oil for a couple of years with really no results. I take about 2000 mg a day. I've taken it (months at a time) with fish oil, salmon oil, c, zinc, ALA, E, uhhhh I can't remember it all. I would like to try EPO instead, BUT, I've read that epileptics should not take it. The best I can figure out is because the GLA reduces the threshold for seizures. Wouldn't borage oil do the same? My borage oil label has no warning, so I'm confused.

no results at all?

where you balancing your omega 3 to 6 at a 1:1 ratio?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok all you experts :) I have a question. I've been taking borage oil for a couple of years with really no results. I take about 2000 mg a day. I've taken it (months at a time) with fish oil, salmon oil, c, zinc, ALA, E, uhhhh I can't remember it all. I would like to try EPO instead, BUT, I've read that epileptics should not take it. The best I can figure out is because the GLA reduces the threshold for seizures. Wouldn't borage oil do the same? My borage oil label has no warning, so I'm confused.

no results at all?

were you balancing your omega 3 to 6 at a 1:1 ratio?

gla taken in very high amounts will be reconverted back into arachidonic acid which =bad.

and therefore your intake should only temporarily be high to replace a supposed deficiency, then after a certain amount of time which i coundnt really say how long, you need to reduce your gla supplementation. off the top of my head i would assume 4-8 weeks

and continue to take your fish oil at a 1-4:1, omega 6-3.

its all about a balanced ratio and not having any more then the other because they all compete and interact with each other.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok all you experts :) I have a question. I've been taking borage oil for a couple of years with really no results. I take about 2000 mg a day. I've taken it (months at a time) with fish oil, salmon oil, c, zinc, ALA, E, uhhhh I can't remember it all. I would like to try EPO instead, BUT, I've read that epileptics should not take it. The best I can figure out is because the GLA reduces the threshold for seizures. Wouldn't borage oil do the same? My borage oil label has no warning, so I'm confused.

no results at all?

were you balancing your omega 3 to 6 at a 1:1 ratio?

gla taken in very high amounts will be reconverted back into arachidonic acid which =bad.

and therefore your intake should only temporarily be high to replace a supposed deficiency, then after a certain amount of time which i coundnt really say how long, you need to reduce your gla supplementation. off the top of my head i would assume 4-8 weeks

and continue to take your fish oil at a 1-4:1, omega 6-3.

its all about a balanced ratio and not having any more then the other because they all compete and interact with each other.

Umm, no :ninja: Or if I was, it was coincidentally. Would I do that by taking, for example, 1000 mg fish oil to 1000 mg borage oil? Or do I need to look into standardized supplements and balance 1000 mg EPA/DHA with 1000 mg GLA? And thank you very much for answering!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ok all you experts :) I have a question. I've been taking borage oil for a couple of years with really no results. I take about 2000 mg a day. I've taken it (months at a time) with fish oil, salmon oil, c, zinc, ALA, E, uhhhh I can't remember it all. I would like to try EPO instead, BUT, I've read that epileptics should not take it. The best I can figure out is because the GLA reduces the threshold for seizures. Wouldn't borage oil do the same? My borage oil label has no warning, so I'm confused.

no results at all?

were you balancing your omega 3 to 6 at a 1:1 ratio?

gla taken in very high amounts will be reconverted back into arachidonic acid which =bad.

and therefore your intake should only temporarily be high to replace a supposed deficiency, then after a certain amount of time which i coundnt really say how long, you need to reduce your gla supplementation. off the top of my head i would assume 4-8 weeks

and continue to take your fish oil at a 1-4:1, omega 6-3.

its all about a balanced ratio and not having any more then the other because they all compete and interact with each other.

Umm, no :ninja: Or if I was, it was coincidentally. Would I do that by taking, for example, 1000 mg fish oil to 1000 mg borage oil? Or do I need to look into standardized supplements and balance 1000 mg EPA/DHA with 1000 mg GLA? And thank you very much for answering!

analyze your diet and the types of foods you eat, then look them up here http://www.nutritiondata.com/

they will list the omega 6 to 3 ratios in the bottom left hand corner. from there you can average out how many grams of omega 6 you generally get in a day, then to achieve a 1:1 ratio match that with fish oil.

so 5 grams of omega 6 would be matched with 5 grams of fish oil.

the borage oil will increase your gla levels in your body and inhibit aa, but i really dont think you should be taking so much gla unless you are really old. as we get older our the conversion of gla is weaker. but for us younger people it is good to correct a defieciency so we can get up levels up to where they need to be.

refer back to this diagram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:EFA_to_Eicosanoids.svg

what this diagram displays is how omega 6s balance with omega 3s. in the center of the diagram it lists the enzymes that the fats on the corresponding sides compete for. for example the omega 3 fatty acid alpha linoliec acid competes for the same enzyme as omega 6 fatty acid linoleic acid, so the more ala you have the less chance la will have to make gla and so forth.

this is why i tend to believe that taking a high epa fish oil would be a more potent acne fighting strategy(if this even works) because epa is a direct competitor of arachidonic acid, which is responsible for the synthesis of ltb4 and pge2 which can lead to stimulation of the sebaceous glands.

: J Mol Med. 2006 Jan;84(1):75-87. Epub 2005 Dec 31.Links

Enzymes involved in the biosynthesis of leukotriene B4 and prostaglandin E2 are active in sebaceous glands.

Department of Dermatology, Charite Universitaetsmedizin Berlin, Campus Benjamin Franklin, Fabeckstrasse 60-62, 14195 Berlin, Germany.

The expression of enzymes involved in leukotriene and prostaglandin signalling pathways, of interleukins 6 and 8 and of peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors in sebaceous glands of acne-involved facial skin was compared with those of non-involved skin of acne patients and of healthy individuals. Moreover, 5-lipoxygenase and leukotriene A(4) hydrolase were expressed at mRNA and protein levels in vivo and in SZ95 sebocytes in vitro (leukotriene A(4) hydrolase > 5-lipoxygenase), while 15-lipoxygenase-1 was only detected in cultured sebocytes. Cyclooxygenase-1 and cyclooxygenase-2 were also present. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors were constitutively expressed. Enhanced 5-lipoxygenase, cyclooxygenase 2 and interleukin 6 expression was detected in acne-involved facial skin. Arachidonic acid stimulated leukotriene B(4) and interleukin 6 release as well as prostaglandin E(2) biosynthesis in SZ95 sebocytes, induced abundant increase in neutral lipids and down-regulated peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor-alpha, but not receptor-gamma1 mRNA levels, which were the predominant peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor isotypes in SZ95 sebocytes. In conclusion, human sebocytes possess the enzyme machinery for functional leukotriene and prostaglandin pathways. A comprehensive link between inflammation and sebaceous lipid synthesis is provided.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How much Primrose oil do you need to take?

Is 25 mg enough to make a noticeable difference as opposed to taking nothing?

I found a multi-vitamin that contains 25 mg Alpha-Lipoic Acid.

Do I need to take an additonal supplement as well?

This stuff is rather confusing to me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my previously held belief that efas change the composition of sebum and make it less coagulant and less prone to comedos is confirmed. well kinda.

: Pediatr Res. 2000 Mar;47(3):414-7. Links

Novel pathway of metabolism of alpha-linolenic acid in the guinea pig.Fu Z, Sinclair AJ.

Department of Food Science, RMIT University, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.

Docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) plays an important role in the nervous system. The capacity of the infant to use the essential fatty acid alpha-linolenic acid (ALA) as a substrate for neural DHA has been the subject of much debate recently. In this study, we explored the metabolic fate of an oral dose of 14C-labeled ALA in guinea pigs fed a defined diet for 3 wk from weaning. Of the 14C-labeled ALA administered, more than 46% was associated with the skin and fur lipids, mostly in the FFA fraction, and less than 0.1% was in brain lipids. About 39% of the label was not recovered in the body lipids and was assumed to be expired as CO2 or unabsorbed. The fur and skin were almost equally labeled; however, because of the very low mass of ALA in the fur, the specific activity of the fur was very high. These data identify a new route of metabolism of ALA in this species, presumably through the sebaceous glands onto fur. If this pathway exists in other species, including humans, it may account for the poor efficiency of conversion of ALA to DHA, because dietary ALA would not be available for anabolic pathways such as DHA synthesis. The relevance of these data to infants is that ALA may play an important hitherto unidentified role in the skin related to barrier function or epidermal integrity. This calls for more research into the importance of ALA as an essential fatty acid in its own right in human infants.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow!!

Hautarzt. 2006 Nov;57(11):999-1004. Links

[The significance of diet and associated factors in psoriasis.][Article in German]

Wolters M.

Abteilung Ernahrungsphysiologie und Humanernahrung, Institut fur Lebensmittelwissenschaft, Zentrum Angewandte Chemie, Universitat Hannover, Wunstorfer Strasse 14, 30453 , Hannover, [email protected]

Psoriasis is a T cell mediated inflammatory skin disease characterized by hyperproliferation and reduced differentiation of epidermal keratinocytes. In severe cases, the disease can result in an insufficient nutritional status which may even be promoted by nutrient-drug interactions. Both the general diet and single food components have been suggested to play a role in etiology and pathogenesis of psoriasis. Fasting periods, vegetarian diets, and diets rich in omega-3 polyunsaturated fatty acids from fish oil have all been associated with improvement in some studies. The most likely explanation is the reduced amounts of arachidonic acid and the increased eicosapentaenoic acid intake resulting in a modulated eicosanoid profile. However, only one of four controlled studies showed a benefit of omega-3 fatty acids compared to placebo. Some psoriasis patients are gluten-sensitive and may benefit from a gluten free diet. The active form of vitamin D exhibits anti-proliferative and immunoregulatory effects and has been shown to be useful in the treatment of psoriasis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wow again

J Lipid Res. 2006 May;47(5):921-30. Epub 2006 Feb 7. Links

Photoprotective and anti-skin-aging effects of eicosapentaenoic acid in human skin in vivo.Kim HH, Cho S, Lee S, Kim KH, Cho KH, Eun HC, Chung JH.

Department of Dermatology, Seoul National University College of Medicine, Laboratory of Cutaneous Aging Research, Clinical Research Institutes, Seoul National University Hospital, Seoul National University, Korea.

Skin aging can be attributed to photoaging (extrinsic) and chronological (intrinsic) aging. Photoaging and intrinsic aging are induced by damage to human skin attributable to repeated exposure to ultraviolet (UV) irradiation and to the passage of time, respectively. In our previous report, eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) was found to inhibit UV-induced matrix metalloproteinase-1 (MMP-1) expression in human dermal fibroblasts. Therefore, we investigated the effects of EPA on UV-induced skin damage and intrinsic aging by applying EPA topically to young and aged human skin, respectively. By immunohistochemical analysis and Western blotting, we found that topical application of EPA reduced UV-induced epidermal thickening and inhibited collagen decrease induced by UV light. It was also found that EPA attenuated UV-induced MMP-1 and MMP-9 expression by inhibiting UV-induced c-Jun phosphorylation, which is closely related to UV-induced activator protein-1 activation, and by inhibiting JNK and p38 activation. EPA also inhibited UV-induced cyclooxygenase-2 (COX-2) expression without altering COX-1 expression. Moreover, it was found that EPA increased collagen and elastic fibers (tropoelastin and fibrillin-1) expression by increasing transformin growth factor-beta expression in aged human skin. Together, these results demonstrate that topical EPA has potential as an anti-skin-aging agent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some fellas in this thread need to stop spreading these anti-saturated/animal fat rumors in this thread. There's absolutely no credible scientific proof that they are bad for you, especially in regards to heart/cardiovascular function. On the contrary, there are many studies which show the opposite.

If you find some references/proof i will gladly shut up. I dare you!

I've seen a massive improvement in my acne since i started consuming more saturated fats (and cutting down on carbs). And since there's no proof of its dangers, i highly recommend everyone to eat more sat. fats!

The problem for those who don't eat saturated fats is that they risk a too high intake of omega-6, because that sort of people usually resort to vegetable oils, of which the majority are bad (too high in omega-6), except olive oil, coconut oil and rapeseed oil.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are tons of studies done regarding saturated fats and health issues. Here are a couple of good sites though:

http://www.newstarget.com/020637.html

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=532

I've seen a massive improvement in my acne since i started consuming more saturated fats (and cutting down on carbs).

Maybe your acne improved because you cut down on carbs rather than because you increased saturated fats...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, I spoke too soon. I had a very bad breakout over the past few days....all over my chin and jawline. I look like a mess. I'm wondering if I should stop the EPO and just take the borage oil and lecithin, and replace the flaxseed oil with fish oil that has high epa and dha. Anyone have any suggestions? It's been a long battle with acne and I'm tired. :wall:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There are tons of studies done regarding saturated fats and health issues. Here are a couple of good sites though:

http://www.newstarget.com/020637.html

http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=532

I've seen a massive improvement in my acne since i started consuming more saturated fats (and cutting down on carbs).

Maybe your acne improved because you cut down on carbs rather than because you increased saturated fats...

You're right, there have been plenty of studies regarding saturated fats and health issues. NONE OF THEM HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SHOW THE LINK THOUGH. Except those that include margarine saturated fats (chemically modified) which we all know are bad.

Those sites you linked to are journastic articles and of no relevance. Link to studies.

There have been plenty of studies which show the positive health effects of saturated fats, however.

There's a ton of arciles i could link but i recommend you start with Gary Taubes revolutationary article in New York Times

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...mp;pagewanted=1

These sites about the cholesterol myths are important too

http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol.htm

http://www.thincs.org/

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Personalized Advice Quiz - All of Acne.org in just a few minutes

×