Michelle Reece

Your cleanser may lose effectiveness for a few reasons:
1. Antibacterial ingredients which P. acnes bacteria can "get used" to, like triclosan (exceptions: BP, sodium sulfacetamide)
2. Active ingredients are degrading, due to age and/or improper storage conditions
3. Formulation flaws, like weak or no preservatives

The skin only "builds up a tolerance" to some topicals when it comes to irritation, like retinoids. But after the irritation stops, the effectiveness will pretty much still remain the same.

No, SLS isn't that bad. The reason it got such a bad reputation is because of numerous patch test studies showing irritation. However, the SLS was usually left on the skin for 24 to 72 hours, and cleansers are, well, washed off. SLS would only be problematic if you left the cleanser on your face all night, rubbed really hard and/or you have hypersensitive skin like eczema.

Thank you guys so much for your kindness and understanding. I wasn't sure how this post would be received after me being such a diet nazi on this forum for so many years. I definitely calmed down in the last year or so, especially after I was humbled by my acne coming back. But for a while there I was pretty harsh with my opinions. Thanks for reading this and being so nice to me. I've felt the need to apologize for a while now and it really lifted a weight off my soul.

I am looking into therapy, but unfortunately I don't have much money and no insurance, so I'm not sure when/if I can make it happen. I did order this book and it's on its way to my house now. Should arrive next week:

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/0767905857

"The first book to identify the eating disorder orthorexia nervosa–an obsession with eating healthfully–and offer expert advice on how to treat it.

As Americans become better informed about health, more and more people have turned to diet as a way to lose weight and keep themselves in peak condition. Anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa–disorders in which the sufferer focuses on the quantity of food eaten–have been highly documented over the past decade. But as Dr. Steven Bratman asserts in this breakthrough book, for many people, eating “correctly” has become an equally harmful obsession, one that causes them to adopt progressively more rigid diets that not only eliminate crucial nutrients and food groups, but ultimately cost them their overall health, personal relationships, and emotional well-being.

Health Food Junkies is the first book to identify this new eating disorder, orthorexia nervosa, and to offer detailed, practical advice on how to cope with and overcome it. Orthorexia nervosa occurs when the victim becomes obsessed, not with the quantity of food eaten, but the quality of the food. What starts as a devotion to healthy eating can evolve into a pattern of incredibly strict diets; victims become so focused on eating a “pure” diet (usually raw vegetables and grains) that the planning and preparation of food come to play the dominant role in their lives.

Health Food Junkies provides an expert analysis of some of today’s most popular diets–from The Zone to macrobiotics, raw-foodism to food allergy elimination–and shows not only how they can lead to orthorexia, but how they are often built on faulty logic rather than sound medical advice. Offering expert insight gleaned from his work with orthorexia patients, Dr. Bratman outlines the symptoms of orthorexia, describes its progression, and shows readers how to diagnose the condition. Finally, Dr. Bratman offers practical suggestions for intervention and treatment, giving readers the tools they need to conquer this painful disorder, rediscover the joys of eating, and reclaim their lives."

It's been recommended to me by a few people now, so I'm really excited to begin reading it. I hope it can get me back on the right path again.

Seriously, I love you all!

I'll give you some background information regarding orthorexia nervosa:

While orthorexia nervosa is not a medically recognized mental disease at the moment, that doesn't mean that it won't be in the future. One of the reasons it isn't recognized at the moment is the diagnostic criteria hasn't been totally fleshed out. Another reason is nobody knows the prevalence and pathology of it. In short, scientists don't know enough yet, but there is an interest in this disorder. Most of the studies have been published in the Eating and Weight Disorders journal, and several other Polish journals have covered it.

I hope you find a way to like and love yourself and life again and get out of this "mental rut", for lack of a better phrase. When life overwhelms us sometimes we forget to talk to people and find solutions to problems!

Doctors have proven to me time and time again that they know pretty much nothing. If you'd been completely failed by conventional medicine, you would turn to holistic medicine too.

Same here. Doctors have been completely useless to me.  All those decades when they told me diet had nothing to do with acne while prescribing me harmful drugs.   Then when I finally realized they were wrong, changed my diet, my skin cleared up fairly quickly.

Marketers skillfully portray the colorful mental image of the oneness with nature, and living the simple yet exotic lives of ancient folk picking medicinal herbs from forests and giving them to an ailing boy who recovers guided by the elders' wisdom.

Who is marketing anything? Most of what we talk about here is diet. No one is selling a certain type of diet. Who is marketing Paleo, the meat companies?

Yes. Why is she ranting to us about marketers?  Go somewhere where there are marketers and rant.

Doctors have proven to me time and time again that they know pretty much nothing. If you'd been completely failed by conventional medicine, you would turn to holistic medicine too.

Marketers skillfully portray the colorful mental image of the oneness with nature, and living the simple yet exotic lives of ancient folk picking medicinal herbs from forests and giving them to an ailing boy who recovers guided by the elders' wisdom.

Who is marketing anything? Most of what we talk about here is diet. No one is selling a certain type of diet. Who is marketing Paleo, the meat companies?

My point is how brilliant marketers are at persuasion. And yes, some people who sell the "paleo diet" may be affiliated with bigger companies or that larger corporations buy out smaller companies or create new lines to sell different products at different price points for different demographics. For example, Procter & Gamble owns Olay, and SK II, the latter having the most expensive creams in the world featuring some ferment in it. Women who buy the latter brand are into high-end beauty products. Johnson & Johnson owns the natural/herbal skin care product line Aveeno and the ubiquitous Neutrogena. It's also common for companies to buy out other companies that gives resources to make product X (vertical integration/expansion) and buying "unrelated" companies (horizontal integration/expansion).

I have no idea why you are ranting about that here.  What does that have to do with us?  I, personally, buy almost nothing from any major corp like those you mentioned above. And recommend everyone else do so as well.

Unethical marketers and/or hoaxers who want to exploit people's suffering and desperation would show up on these forums. They would then introduce logical fallacies to draw the prospect into the state of mind they want. Great marketers/hoaxers would be subtle in their persuasion and exploit people's ignorance.

It is not your fault, deja.

It's not your fault there's no known cure for acne. It's not your fault you were afflicted with acne. It's not your fault if you genuinely or anyone else for that matter believed treatment XYZ in healing/curing your acne and thought that others would have the same benefit.

Finding a cure or effective treatment can easily become an obsession, especially when you may come across people with "perfect" skin or see hundreds of beautiful models on TV or magazines. Of course it's mostly makeup and computer graphics, but it people still want it and want to believe there's another way of achieving it. We all want cures for every disease, but at the moment they are not known because science grinds slowly and it takes decades of research to figure something out.

And then when someone finds an article detailing on the Internet titled "This is THE CURE", the desperate immediately pounce on it. They faithfully follow instructions, no matter how crazy the regimen may seem, and if they report failure sometimes there's an underlying tone in the OP's words like "you didn't try hard enough". But other times there isn't and people think that anyway. It then becomes a vicious cycle of trying something new, wanting to see improvement and then get crushed again. And again. And again.

It infuriates me to no end how some people parade "remedies" and "cures" that they know will likely not work or just not work at all and lie to very desperate and depressed sufferers that it "does work". These scum that do get a power trip from this, which is downright psychological abuse. "Why didn't you come to me sooner," they might say. "Well, I have a cure for you/it works for everyone!" They would claim. "It's the secret they don't want you to know about!" They shout, which isolates people from their skeptical friends and family and draws the desperate into the state of mind the scum wants. Then the acne subsides on its own despite the treatment, the sufferer sees what he or she wants to see, and he/she feels good for a while until the acne returns with a vengeance, the sufferer feeling even worse than before the "treatment". Then the scum implies "you didn't try hard enough, stick with the treatment" where the sufferer feels better for a bit and when it doesn't work he/she doesn't want to admit it and may stick with it anyway, hoping that any day now for clear skin and the "perfect life". . .

Please go to a therapist and a psychiatrist. Good ones will give you the best treatments, work with you and give you coping skills. Right now I have a copy of Tinnitus Retraining Therapy. Yeah, not a book about coping with acne, but it gives coping skills with tinnitus (ear ringing) and many of the things in the book should apply to acne and coping. I'm about to get my hands on Happiness: Unlocking the Mysteries of Psychological Wealth by Ed Diener, and I'll post a few relevant excerpts from there. I don't know exactly how many therapists have or know about this book, but probably quite a few because Diener is a famous psychologist at the University of Illinois and has conducted 25 years of research on happiness.

I'm sorry to hear that, Linx.

When's your appointment with your derm? Also, how's your insurance? The second question is important because better insurance can give you more options, like using adapalene.

Mayoclinic sucks...they recommend many things, not unlike many Western med sources, that don't help certain ailments or make them worse. In addition- they deny certain things exist- like leaky gut, for example. Adrenal fatigue makes perfect scientific sense

Yes, there are various crippling diseases out there, many of them with no real cure, but what other better evidence-based (meaning not solely based on testimonials) alternative is there?

"Leaky gut" is not a medically accepted diagnosis because it hasn't been definitively proven to exist. That phrase has been thrown around on the Internet for a while especially by non-medical laymen who have no clue about the specific mechanisms of how the intestines operate, let alone the diseases. Again, "leaky gut" involves a vague set of symptoms that are credible to laymen. It's absolutely unethical for people to claim that people have "leaky guts" as a fact and especially recommend unproven treatments for it when they know it's nothing but conjecture.

"Adrenal fatigue" does not make "perfect scientific sense" when the basis of the disease contradicts itself. Proponents claim that "adrenal fatigue" is measurable (quantifiable), yet blood tests can't detect it.

haha yeah I dunno it's hard to even know what's credible from pharms these days.. messed up but really their main concern is not helping people as sad as it is, it's major corporations out for their own interests for the most part.  I also see what your saying Michelle, you have your point, it is interesting how adrenal fatigue if it is true and hypothyroid are very close in symptoms, as things Ive read say they go hand in hand.  But that adrenal imbalance is what causes thyroid problems, so you need to fix adrenal problems first.

Whether or not its "fatigue" or whatever name ya wanna give it, I think we can agree adrenal imbalance does exist, as even the big pharm companies say does exist.  And this adrenal imbalance I believe is the reason for many peoples acne that is considered homronal, along the chin/mouth area.  I have been taking carlson fish oil now for about a month and just started taking hemp oil which has 500mg GLA in every TBL pretty remarkable, and I am so happy with the results.  Havent had a break out in a while, everything has been great only thing I still battle is dry skin and intolerance to cold, I get hilariously cold even below 50 degrees, also have had cold/hands and feet ever since I can remember.  My hands get purple, barney purple lol.  

I just bought licorice and just started today so Im gonna see if there is any results.

Yes, sometimes some pharmaceutical companies can pull dirty tricks, like stretching the off-label laws and going so far as to create fake medical journals. However, this does not happen 100% of the time and people usually go into the medical field because they have compassion for others.

As I've said before, it's fine as long as pharmaceutical companies fund research if they have high-quality research and disclose their source of funding. It is possible for pharmaceutical companies to do that, as prescriptions/drugs have been proven to work and are part of standard care due to some of this research like statins.

While I'm glad your acne has subsided at least somewhat, I'm still concerned about your supplementation. I generally don't like supplements because they're often not proved for diseases and we really don't know what exactly is in the supplement that could be a potential hazard (bacterial, fungal, lead and mercury contamination, etc.) If your hands get that purple I'd advise you to see a doctor on that.

A few things to keep in mind here:

1. Correlation =/= causation. People tend to jump to conclusions and like to blame their acne, etc. on one thing which is not always the case.
2. True acne does not appear in a day or so. It can and does take a few weeks. Sometimes people notice their acne until later even though it has sat on their face for a while. Other times accidentally irritating some pimples can highlight their presence and it may look like it appeared there overnight.

My research had brought me to the theory that the body is a reflection of the mind, if we assume for a minute that this is true, then what would acne be a manifestation of?

For me I realized that acne was the outer manifestation of all the uglyness that was inside of me, all the pain and emotions that I have suffered in the past (I had an emotionally tough childhood) that I never faced within myself had to be expressed in some way or they would have killed me.
Emotional stress is actually very toxic to the body, much more toxic than anything you could eat, drink,  smoke, snort or even shoot! (exept for lethal poisons ofcourse).
Just do some research on how stress can affect the entire body , including hormonal balance and digstion, and you"ll realize that diet is insiginificant to your skin, as compared to stress levels. (Excluding any pre-existing allergies).

I dicided to try this after reading "A new eart" by Eckhart Tolle.
I surrendered to all the pain that was inside of me from all the years of suffering from acne and all the fear and stress of not being good enough.

What happened is unbelievable, after just surrendering, the results within two weeks were already life changing. Just simply from accepting myself as I am right now, and facing all my emotions without running away from them, all active acne has dissapeared, and the scars that I did have are all fading and literally falling (peeling) off my face!

I have come to the conclusion that my acne was simply caused by suppressed emotions of not being good enough (this goes back to the way I was raised) which just got worse when I came into puberty and got exerbated by the acne, basically the acne was the outter manifestation of the emotion "I'm not good enough". And by not facing this emotion within myself, I was sentenced to facing it everytime I looked in the mirror and showing it to the entire world (you can run but you can't hide!).

Most people go through a short phase where they have acne, and then grow out of it, guess why? because they accept themselves as they are, even with acne. We are the ones who have trouble living with acne because we already had problems before the acne even showed up, we just weren't aware of it, the acne was meant to make us aware that we have some emotional problems going on and to deal with them.

But instead of doing that, we decide to fight against the acne! Well the acne is just a reflection of yourself, so in reality you're fighting against yourself, which can only result in more pain. Nobody goes from having clear skin to having severe acne over night, it's a process. The more you fight aginst it, the worse it gets. I'm not saying that some people are not genetically predisposed to this, I'm just saying that if you had clear skin as a child, then there's no reason why you could not be having clear skin now.
Stress is what breaks these weak links.
Other people might be be having emotional issues also, but they're not genetically predisposed to getting acne , so with them it manifestst as some other disease.

I'm saying this to everybody here who has no other health problems, and has tried everything to get rid of acne but nothing has worked for them; the reason why nothing works for you is because your acne is not caused by anything physical, it's all mental and emotional.

I'm 100% certain that the cause for my moderate to severe acne was supressed emotions and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one!

This is dangerously close to some of the other things I've read online that "cancer, etc. is caused by repressed emotions and your body is trying to tell you something". I'm very concerned "acne" in this assertion will be a placeholder word to some, then they'll start claiming potentially lethal nonsense.

Yes, getting stressed out about acne can make you see more/worse acne then there is, and if you don't pay attention to your acne it "isn't there". However, "de-stressing" is by no means a "cure". Your mind can trick you with placebo and nocebo effects. I immediately get suspicious of anyone who claims "X is the true cause" and "Y is the cure", especially when there is no (known) cure to acne.

Be glad you aren't afflicted with a worse disease, like Lou Gehrig's. Thinking "it could be worse" should be kept in mind here.

There it is again. The "you should feel better because there are worse things" comment. Why exactly should someone feel better because there are worse things? How does that change anything about their situation? Just because there are things that are worse than something that is bad doesn't change the fact that something that is bad is bad.

Perception and perspective matters, especially with acne. It's very easy to overestimate acne's severity because one may be looking for pimples that aren't there, for example. Acne can very easily cause chronic emotional distress, even if it is mild. Seeing Photoshop-fixed models in TV and magazine ads and easily available cosmetics that people apply does give an illusion that "everybody else" has "perfect" skin.

People who suffer from acne need to learn coping skills -- taking a step back and analyzing emotions is part of the process in changing behavioral thinking. Stepping back and thinking "it could be worse" is one way to cope with acne. Another way of dealing with it is thinking "there are several OTC and successful prescription treatments for acne I could use". If you try to think of acne in a neutral way and/or trying to find a silver lining to it people will have a much better time dealing with acne and its stress.

You need to boost ur immune system given u are underweight. Start drinking dairy kefir, vegetable juice and do hardcore yoga. Also have a vitamin A and zinc rich diet.

What does "boost [your] immune system" even mean? What part of the immune system?

I've decided to post pictures of my acne as it is today, as I am really starting to lose the battle mentally. Some background info:

17, male, from Australia, average height, a TINY bit underweight. Haven't consumed dairy, gluten or any high carbs for a month now. Before that month for a few weeks I was eating junk food for about 2 weeks. Before that I was on a serious healthy diet which included no gluten or high carbs, ALL natural food, all raw vegetables and healthy meat for 2 months. I exercise every 2nd day and go for walks every night.

I only started developing acne this year in January, and it's just gone downhill to this. I hardly go out anymore and the only person I see is my mum, sister and my girlfriend, I need to start getting my life back again, and I need my clear skin back. I'm hoping that maybe you guys, as you know a lot about acne, can tell what might be causing my acne even just by looking at the type it is.


This is a big deal of me to post photos, as this is the worst I've ever looked and I've hardly been feeling confident for over 4 months now, just sitting at home.

If it matters, I'm seeing a nutritionist - told me I have leaky gut syndrome and I did a test that told me all these different things thats wrong with my body, and she came to that conclusion. I'm going for an allergy test to tell me of ALL the foods I am allergic to so I don't harm my body anymore, don't know if that will make the big difference. But yeah.

Pictures:







< -- Another, clearer picture of my right cheek on my face.



That's all the pictures I have of my acne. Please reply soon. Getting frustrated with all of this.

That's mild acne, similar to what I have at the moment. But you may have a few ingrown hairs, considering guys with facial hair typically do.

Having acne at 17 is not out of the ordinary -- with males, it tends to subside around 20 or so.

Mild acne such as yours can be easily managed over the counter, but if those products don't work you could see a derm, who would likely prescribe you adapalene.

How do you know if you have ingrown hairs? i've heard of them but I don't really know, I use an electric shaver. And That actually made me feel a bit better, hah. I use to use clearisil and had no acne, except the occasional one or two every month. So you think I should buy a product and start using it or should I possibly even try Acne.org's regimen?

Ingrown hairs can look a lot like acne, but they have a tendency to itch and sometimes if you look close enough you can see a curled back hair in the "pimple". Shaving makes you likely to have ingrown hairs. I noticed you had a lot more acne on the cheeks and chin (the areas where you have shaved), so that's also why I brought it up.

Salicylic acid and glycolic acid are used for acne and ingrown hairs. If you have oilier skin, you can use a 2% SA moisturizer. You said that Clearasil mostly worked for you, (Clearasil has a few 2% SA moisturizers) so you should go back to it. For mild acne, BP isn't really worth it because it can be irritating/drying and the potential bleach clothing/fabric may not be worth it.

Thank you I'll be looking to see if I have any ingrown hairs now. And ok, I will lay off the regimen here. But if nothing else works, I'll try acne.orgs regimen. So one last Q: basically just try with an over the counter product, see how I go? if nothing, try see a dermatologist?

You're welcome!

Yes, you could try 2% SA and a shaving cream (Gillette has a nice Fusion Proglide line: look for one with glycerin in it if you tend to have dry skin after shaving).

I don't quite agree with Dan on his acne.org regimen, mostly because of the copious amounts of BP he recommends. If you feel you need to use BP, keep it to small doses/areas for reasons I've said before. If that doesn't work, it's a good idea to visit a derm. People assume that if you visit a derm he/she has to prescribe you something -- if you talk to them they can guide you to good OTC treatments. It's just a lot derms like to prescribe retinoids because they are very useful against acne, uneven skin tone, and wrinkle prevention.

Hello everyone~

My name is Linh. I wonder if anyone here has a good result with Retin A and how long it should take Retin A to work for you and also if you experience any initial breakout when you first started. I used Retin A for about 6-8 months, it worsened my skin a lot at first (for about 5 months) but then I noticed some improvements, like the whiteheads eventually went away (still breakouts tho!). However, it left my skin so red and scarred, so I got referred to a derm; she prescribed me Accutane and it worked wonderfully! My skin was all cleared up, not flawless tho. Sadly, my acne came back 4-5 months later after a full course of Accutane and now my skin is just as bad as before. Last week, I decided to go see my primary care doctor and talk to her about my acne concern, she then prescribed me the antibiotic gel (clindagel) and 10% benzoyl peroxide lotion wash. I feel like they're only helping a bit. I also have an appointment with a new derm next month. I am thinking about giving Retin A another shot since I've heard many good things about it but I don't know if it will be worth it. Having acne is so depressing, especially when you're using Retin A...
I'd very much appreciate if you also shared your experience with Retin A or anything related to acne.

Thank you!

It's definitely worthwhile to go back on prescription retinoids. If you were specifically using Retin-A (tretinoin), you could ask your derm to put you on adapalene (e.g., Differin), which is specifically suited for acne and is less irritating. There may be a few adapalene-antibiotic combinations your next derm may prescribe, like with BP or clindamycin. Either way, adapalene is a good option!

I suppose I should calculate the costs of a fish oil-psoriasis regimen:

I'm taking the price and amount of Omega-3s (EPA and DHA) from Nature's Bounty Fish Oil 1200 mg Rapid Release Liquid Softgels Twin Pack, because it shows how much EPA and DHA it has unlike some other brands. 180 count per bottle, 360 capsules total. Serving size is 1 capsule containing 360 mg of EPA and DHA (separately? I think it might be, but I'm not sure.)

To get 1.8 grams of EPA and DHA like one study I linked above, you need to consume 5 of these capsules daily. 1800 mg / 360 mg = 5.

360 capsules / 5 daily = 72 day supply. The twin pack would cost you about $27.99 online on Walgreens at the moment. To last you a year, you need to buy about 5 twin packs. 5 x $27.99 = $139.95. This is not including taxes, different brands, or if the price goes up.

I don't know how much disposable income you have, but is $139.95+ too big of a gamble to you? I don't want you to spend that much yearly on a gamble, especially if you have a tight budget.

One more thing Michelle, could this moisturiser break me out? I mean, does it have any ingredients that could do so?

No. Contrary to popular belief, there are very few truly comedogenic ingredients in products nowadays, let alone in sufficient quantities. Several of the ingredients in the product are emollients with no ingredients showing any pore-clogging properties in human studies.

Thanks for your input guys!  Yeah fortunately the sodium hydroxide is last ingredient listed, which means there is a tiny percentage (plus, my skin is very acne prone but not sensitive thankfully)

Those products didn't have any of the "red flag" ingredients that I know of, and i'm glad you don't see any either!  I'll give them a try and update this thread in a few weeks (if I remember )

Thanks Michelle, I appreciate you pointing out the difference between the two .  I'll send the company an email asking about the concentration of niacinamide.

You're welcome!

Sodium hydroxide is used in very tiny amounts as a pH adjuster in skin care products. Skin care products with sodium hydroxide are unlikely to cause irritation -- sodium hydroxide-induced irritations typically happen in household cleaning products or industrial detergents.

For niacinamide in skin care products, 5% is the best concentration, although 4% is fine.