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WishClean

Member Since 06 Nov 2011
Offline Last Active Aug 26 2014 03:49 PM

#3448613 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 23 August 2014 - 12:45 PM

Yes, I was/am concerned about DIM losing its effectiveness, but I found that if I up the dose by 50mg when I hit a plateau then it keeps working...and then I lower it back down to 100mg. I tried 50mg for a while but I think 100mg is the right dose for me right now. 

Also, I had lowered my inositol to about 200mg-400 per day, and noticed that the melasma was getting darker...now I upped it to the regular dose (about 800mg) and the melasma seems to have faded a bit. It's crazy how my body reacts to hormonal supplements & herbs. It seems that I need both inositol and DIM, which is fine since I'd rather take those than birth control or anything else. 

I've also been minimizing grains lately, and if I had more discipline, I think it would help my skin a lot more. The optimal PCOS diet doesn't have many grains anyway (perhaps except rice and millet), so I'm trying to stick to it as much as possible. I still have some little bumps under the surface of my skin, but I noticed they got much better when I upped the inositol to 800mg...I've also been wearing less makeup and did a lactic peel recently, which could have helped too.




#3448282 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 21 August 2014 - 11:16 AM

Good luck on the move, WishClean! I hope everything goes smoothly for you! (:

Thanks hearts! I'll be checking in with you ladies here and there, then will be more regular as of the end of the month when I finally make the big move. Hope everything is well with you!

 

No worries about the delay WishClean. I just thought I’d bump my post to the top of the page to ensure it would be seen. Congratulations on your new endeavour; moving to Europe sounds very exciting. I hope you’ll still check in with acne.org now and then, as your research and experience is invaluable.

I don’t know if DIM Plus used to have a higher concentration, as I’ve only been taking it for less than a month. However, the label on the US version states that each dose contains 100mgs of DIM Complex, while the Canadian version states it contains 12.5mgs of DIM per capsule (so 25mgs of DIM per dose).  I emailed the company and they said that the US and Canadian versions are the same but labelled differently due to national regulations. My bottle says manufactured in the US and distributed in Canada, as well. So your brand is not a complex, it’s pure DIM? I have upped my dose to three per day and am awaiting, hopefully positive, change.

In reading reviews, many people claim the effects of DIM ware off in time. Here is a comment from this website: http://thelovevitami...block-dim-acne/:

“Katrina says

January 26, 2014 at 12:39 pm

Estroblock worked like a dream for me for about 3 months, and then just stopped working! It was very shocking to start seeing large hormonal breakouts, nearly all month long too. (Not limited to just the pre-period week.) I’m taking liver support supplements, and just ordered Calcium D-glucarate to see if that helps but I’m sort of at a loss as what to do. I was so happy with it that I ordered a bunch of the product so I feel like I want to continue at least with the bottles I have. I had started with a different DIM product and then moved to regular strength (3 a day) and now take the extra strength (2 a day). I also take Vitex, zinc, and probiotics, and eat a fairly clean diet (no dairy, etc.). Have you heard of this happening to anyone or have any advice for me? It is hard to be in my 30s and still suffering from this.

Thanks so much for all your helpful articles and advice.” Do you know why this would be? Do you think DIM is losing effectiveness for you generally or just because you vary your dose?

Half way down the comments section a commenter named Lisa talks about having melasma as well:

“Lisa says

January 18, 2014 at 10:53 pm

Hey Tracy!

I have a question for you, I hope you can help me out. I have signs of androgen excess (facial hair/excess body hair, thinning hair on my scalp), and high estrogen (mid-section weight gain, melasma). I had success with vitex & EPO in the past, but it made my hirsutism worse. Anyway, I decided to go back on vitex again, and so far my skin is worse. I added DIM (Olympian Labs brand) a few days ago, and my breakouts seem to be getting worse! Should I stick it out, knowing that vitex has worked in the past?

Btw, I tried saw palmetto and other DHT blockers with no luck, so I know that it’s not the way to go for me.

I also had a nasty allergic reaction to milk thistle, so I’m scared to take any detox supps/ liver support while taking DIM and vitex. Do you think I can go without the liver detox supplements while on this regimen? I really don’t want to take too many supplements, and I already know I react badly to anything that causes a detox reaction too quickly.” I don’t know if this helps at all because we don’t know if she was saying that vitex and EPO was helping with her acne or her melasma. But it might be worth looking into further. She also takes the same brand of DIM as you.

The Estroblock brand of DIM is affiliated with the website that I linked to, so biases must be considered when reading through the website. Estroblock contains I3C as well, which hearts explained is more volatile than DIM alone. Here is a link to the formula: http://www.amazon.ca...r/dp/B0073W96PS. It contains fairly high concentrations per dose, but we don’t know if the formula contains lots of DIM or lots of I3C. Regardless, I’m still confused as to how much DIM I should be taking, as 12.5mgs per pill (and now I’m taking three pills) seems low.

I’ve weaned down to 87mgs of spiro for a month and decided yesterday to make the bold move of dropping to 50mgs. I had dropped to 75mgs for a couple days prior but then decided it would be best to just go for a larger decrease (I had planned to wean very slowly, by like 10mgs per month). I did so because I’m concerned that spiro could be muting the potential positive effects of DIM by just adding more estrogen. I’ll know shortly—if my acne gets much worse—that I need to increase my dose of spiro. The other reason why I decided to decrease my spiro dose is because my skin is already bad, so it won’t matter as much if I get another breakout from doing so.

I am also wondering if you could tell me how many milligrams of inositol is in your daily dose? I know you measure by teaspoons but does it say on the bottle how many milligrams are in each teaspoon?

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to explain myself thoroughly and link in those quotes. Thanks WishClean!

oh wow, the 2nd quote sounds very similar to my situation. I also read some posts on one of those beauty forums about DIM helping melasma. Some women were recommending it along with other supps like vitamin C and NAC. But for me, only inositol helps with melasma, DIM seems to intensify it. It's so bizzare. Which just goes to show that everyone reacts differently to supplements and other treatments.

btw, the lovevitamin website sometimes contains unfounded generalizations...the founder, Tracy, is not that knowledgeable on HOW supplements work. She just describes what worked for her, but when it comes to explanations, she can't really offer much or explain things in a clear way. I know we don't know for sure how some supplements/herbs work either, but at least we try to understand the various possibilities. But as you pointed out, some of the comments her website gets can be useful in trying to figure out what works and what doesn't. Perhaps I can try EPO again..it used to make my skin glow, but after my digestion issues got worse, nothing seemed to work and I also got a reaction to vitex :/ I think my body just can't handle too many things at once anymore.

Ok, so what I have been taking most days:

100mg of DIM...sometimes I'll add another 50mg if I had a cheat meal or am under a lot of stress.

Inositol in the morning on an empty stomach,I guess it's around 600mg. Sometimes I'll go up to 800mgs. The bloating comes and goes depending on the time of the month...but so far I can handle it. I'll up the exercise when I move and see if that helps...my body usually snaps back with a little discipline.




#3445828 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 06 August 2014 - 09:44 AM

Hey WishClean,

I'm considering high progesterone just as part of the problem, I still have a lot of the symptoms of high estrogen. Frustratingly, many of the symptoms of high progesterone overlap with those of high estrogen (which seems contradictory to other things I've read). I'm basically going off of what GreenGables said about progesterone being a precursor hormone, the fact that my skin did not improve on NPC and the fact that met increases progesterone. I don't want to change too much at once but if I have high progesterone which is converting to estrogen or testosterone, the DIM might be fighting a losing battle. What do you think?

I am happy to be here for you as you and hearts and GreenGables have been there to help me in very anxious times (ha, like now!).

My husband and I only dated for the summer before we became long distance for that year. In many ways, the challenge was the best thing for our relationship. It helped us build a friendship and it forced me to deal with my trust issues (a result of bad previous relationships). In my opinion, the key is not necessarily talking frequently (you have to live your lives not tied to a phone or a laptop) but, when you do get the opportunity, have those long, meaningful conversations where you both let your guard down. When we met back up it was a funny sensation, like we were strangers and best friends and we got to fall in love all over again. And now we've been married for four years. If you decide you want to make it work, have faith that you're worth the wait, you're a wonderful person! smile.png

I don't have an accupuncturist, I've never even been to one. I mostly do yoga and spend time in nature to relax. Unfortunately, those things don't seem to be helping much. I know I'm anxious about my acne, but it's very persistent anxiety. Did you experience any emotional changes when you started DIM or inositol?

B
 

 

 

Well, as I said before about DIM, I'm not sure we know all there is to know about how it works. Even with other herbs like vitex, I'm still finding out more information through anecdotal experiences, more than "official" sources/ research. There are different reactions to herbs...some women respond really well, others do ok, and others do worse on them. What reassured me about DIM, besides hearts' words of encouragement, was that it's essentially a compressed form of broccoli. Broccoli has antioxidant properties, and can really help with inflammation. In reasonable quantities, antioxidants can be very beneficial...I remember when I used to take acai berry supplements a few years ago, my skin was glowing and it helped with overall wellness. So I really think I'm benefitting from its antioxidant properties (along with herpanacine and other vitamins, which I still take but not as frequently because I'm trying to save up).

Inositol helped me more than DIM with anxiety, and DIM helped more with mood swings I think. Although I'm still more emotional than I used to be, but I think it's just because my life is a mess right now, which could be affecting my hormones. Usually, when I'm happy with life in general, things fall into place and my skin feels calmer. 

Now that my bf left, my skin has calmed down....I think it's because I'm starting to get used to the idea of not seeing him for a long time, whereas before I wasn't able to sleep properly. Last night, I actually had a decent night's sleep, so it might be a step in the right direction. You and your husband's story is very encouraging...I just hope my bf will see that I'm worth it, especially after months of not seeing each other. Men, more than women, tend to lose focus and I'm worried that he will get depressed about his life and having to move back in with his parents, and he won't prioritize our relationship because he'll be too busy trying to figure out his own life. But to be honest, I need some breathing space to figure out my own life as well, and hopefully consider a career change because the field I'm currently in is way too competitive and cut throat. I think that's part of what has caused all my recent health issues the past 2 years. 

 

I've been doing yoga as well. Sometimes, if I'm too stressed out or upset, I have to force myself to do it, but eventually it calms me down. There are some videos & playlists on youtube for anti-anxiety, meditation, brain power, etc...those might help you get more relaxed. 

As for acupuncture, you can find online some acu-pressure points to do at home on your own. It won't be as efficient as the needles, but it can still help! 




#3445808 A "gentle" (Low-Dose) Probiotic To Try?

Posted by WishClean on 06 August 2014 - 08:48 AM

 

You could try fermented foods instead. Try drinking water kefir or kombucha. Or add kimchi, sauerkraut, miso, etc to your diet.

 

Well, not if there's an underlying histamine problem. For me, fermented foods are at the top of  the NO list. Wish I could drink kefir and kombucha, but I can't

 

Anyway, gentle probiots: PB8 vegetarian formula. Soglar Acidophilus Plus.

 

This is the second time in as many weeks that someone's mentioned the food-histamine connection. I know nothing about this, but am I right to believe that it means certain foods cause an allergic reaction (in some form or another)?

 

I can't/won't touch anything dairy-based, so kefir's out. And anything containing yeast--like kombucha--wouldn't be a good option for me, either; I need to cut a ton of things out of my diet, as I'm certain I have Candida overgrowth, at the very least. (I've failed the "spit test" every time I've taken it.)

 

I can't find the PB8 formula on Solgar's website (using the "vegetarian" filter). Is it under another name now? Or could you tell me what bacteria and CFU(s) it contains? And did (or do) you break out from it and continue to use it anyway, or have you never had a problem from taking it?

 

Histamines trigger an allergic response, but you don't have to be "allergic" to a histamine trigger to have a reaction. For instance, tomatoes raise histamines in the body in many histamine -sensitive people...so, the more tomatoes they eat, the more histamine reactions they have. It's not a specific allergy to a particular food/ product...it's more about the histamines each food/product releases in the bloodstream. It's complicated, but I hope this makes sense for now.

If you suspect a histamine intolerance, then stay away from anything fermented. Even probiotics need to be kept to a minimum, with simple strands, until you get used to them

 

PB8 (vegetarian version) is a different brand. I recommended 2 brands: PB8 and solgar (acidophilus plus)...both of these work fine for me.




#3445745 How ya feelin' about your acne today?

Posted by WishClean on 05 August 2014 - 08:58 PM

Well, this site is telling me that I have "liked" too many posts today..lol. So I just wanna say that I like seeing some positivity on this thread, even if I can't fully identify with a positive mindset right now. Hopefully your positivity is contagious! 

 

A sense of hopelessness has set in.

 

I go through each day existing and not really focusing on what I am doing.  I feel like things will never get better (it's been 16 years already).  Why even try.

 

Leelowe, I could totally relate to your sense of hopelessness today, but not specifically about my skin, just generally about my life. I'm slowly losing everything that was stable and productive in my life, and about to venture off into the unknown. The future looks bleak right now. 

Sorry, I can't give you any motivation right now, but I will tell you what I try to do every night. I think about what I'm grateful for (even if it's things taken for granted, like food and housing) and then life doesn't seem as bad... 

I'm also determined to focus on keeping busy and doing something productive so that I don't focus on what's going wrong...maybe that could work as well. 




#3445742 Information For Pcos/suspected Pcos

Posted by WishClean on 05 August 2014 - 08:52 PM

Great additional research, ladies! Are we past the point where we know more than endocrinologists about PCOS? grinwink.gif




#3444491 Had My Hormones Tested And They Are A Mess :\

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 11:08 PM

18g is ludicrous... I know they administer that much to people with serious anxiety disorders, but I find it hard to believe that such megadosing doesn't eventually cause issues. Unless this is a short term thing.

I don't even think 2-4g is necessary, especially long term. 




#3444482 Acne At It's Worst. Please Help

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 10:13 PM

My acne is at it's worst
I spent the evening crying in the bathroom and need help and advice. I'm on my second month of ortho tri cyclen.
My forehead is covered and I mean COVERED in red marks, bumps and pores. It's horrible. And before about 2 months ago if I popped a zit it would just go away but now I have marks from when I popped zits months ago....
My nose is filled with huge open pores and blackheads.
My upper lip has tons of acne marks from popping zits and my chin has small bumps. I can't even look at myself in the mirror it's hit an all time low. Help me
Is it the BC pill?

First of all, try not to stress too much about it. Stress makes thing worse.

are you on birth control? If so, that could be what's making things worse.

Don't worry about red marks, they will fade eventually.




#3444480 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 10:03 PM

Start with one, definitely. That way, even if you have a breakout, it will be manageable. I started with 50mg only until I was sure it was working. 

I'm a bit wary of the fact that you are taking a combination of things, not just DIM, but it might work out for the best. I'm usually more sensitive to supplements than most people, that's why I take just DIM. I don't know anyone else who is taking olympian labs DIM, it's not one of the popular brands on this site, unlike the one you are taking.

For the image extension error, just remove all smileys/ images from the post (including the posts you are quoting) and you can edit your post. 




#3444466 Dim-Plus: Hormone Regulating Acne Miracle

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 09:14 PM

looks like 100mg is the way to go. I lowered my DIM to 50mg but now I'm back up to 100mg




#3444455 Acne Doesn't Signal Illness

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 07:46 PM

to the OP: thank you doctor, but no thanks.

I 'll say it once again. I truly dislike posts that make absolute statements without any conclusive proof. It merely creates controversy and offend the people who found a solution to their acne issues by pursuing the natural route.

If this forum bothers you, then don't post here. Simple as that. I even dislike the fact that I dignified this thread with a response. 




#3444453 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 07:43 PM

btw, I was also curious about vitex not working well after some time has gone by, and why my last time on it my skin and stomach didn't like it. The closest explanation I could find is this one, which also explains why the naturopath told me not to take it longer than 6 months at a time.

So basically, anything that stimulates the adrenals to produce MORE (and/or LESS?) of a hormone, can stimulate them to produce more of other hormones as well...??? 

 

"The herb Vitex stimulates progesterone production in the body and therefore helps to balance the hormones.  Experience from many of my clients has shown that taking the herbal tinctures Fem-Mate (contains Vitex) and Chinese Bitters is beneficial to PMS sufferers.  However, if estrogen is high (and not just high in relation to progesterone but high in absolute terms), then Fem-Mate should be taken, only for a few weeks, in order to balance the hormones.  Please note that if you take it for longer than a few weeks, it could actually raise estrogen levels, because Vitex stimulates progesterone production by stimulating the adrenals, which also produce estrogen."

 

Source: http://www.sensiblehealth.com/Journey-04.xhtml 




#3444447 Inositol's Impact On Hormonal Acne

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 07:33 PM

Hi ladies, sorry I missed some of these posts. Feel free to continue the discussion here, anything can help others too.

@ hearts, I do think inositol makes me a bit bloated too sometimes...that's why I lowered it along with DIM. I think DIM sometimes makes me a bit bloated too, depending on the time of the month. Ironically, they are both supposed to be really helpful for weight loss, but --as I mentioned before -- I think that only works for people who were overweight to begin with. 

 

For inositol dosage, I would say don't take anything over 1000mg per day. And even with 1000mg, it's best to break it down into 2 doses, one early in the day & one later in the evening. Yes, it can't cause toxicity, but you are essentially megadosing, which is never good. Plus, megadosing SOME vitamins and not others can deplete other B vitamins. Also, by taking that much, it won't work faster....it's not a "more is more" approach with supplements. 




#3444444 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 07:27 PM

PS

Also, regarding the study, the mean length of spiro use is significantly less than the eight year number thrown out there, plus the sample size is quite small. Something worth further investigation.

 

How long did it take you to see improvement with DIM?

Yes, this study is by no means conclusive, as I mentioned above, but still....there are some concerning possibilities here. In my opinion, I think spiro is lowering your androgens BUT indirectly raising your estrogens by increasing the estrogen: androgen ratio, hence causing estrogen dominance. Excess estrogen (the bad form, I forget whether it's E1 or E2...the one drs don't usually test for separately!) then converts back into testosterone and causes more severe androgen sensitivity. I think the root of the issue would be to lower estrogen so that the androgen: estrogen ratio is more balanced in your body. Thus, instead of targeting androgens, target estrogen instead. Anyway,this is just a theory, you won't know unless you try lowering the bad estrogens. 

But as you and hearts know, I was very hesitant to add DIM to my regimen because of the conflicting information I read online. I just took a risk and it paid off. I'm not 100% clear, but my acne is at a more manageable stage where I can leave my house without crying every time I see my face in the mirror. 

I also think that, in my case, part of my acne is fungal/ allergic (little bumps under the skin), especially since I also got a yeast infection a few weeks ago. But that's another story.

And btw, I did have some nodules...I've had all kinds of acne except conglobata...I'm grateful I haven't had that and feel sorry for those who do. 

 

WOW! Thank you WishClean for your comprehensive research once again! This makes so much sense. Since last summer I’ve been so unhappy because I couldn’t figure out why I’d be getting acne while on—once effective—treatments for acne. Was it the spiro? Was it the glucosmart (inositol)? Was it the vitamins I was taking? And now with this research, and with the information I’ve found on this forum regarding estrogen dominance, I’m starting to understand my situation, which can hopefully provide me with some relief.

The section of the study about breast cancer is especially worrying since the disease runs in my family. I’m also concerned about adrenals since, to my knowledge, it is a more challenging issue to diagnose and treat. I found this link on adrenal issues that is somewhat helpful for self-assessment: http://www.nichd.nih...s/symptoms.aspx. The issue with these self-diagnosing symptomology lists is that many of the symptoms are so common. Do you feel tired sometimes? Yes. Do you like salty food? Yes. Well, you have a disease! I don’t think I have an issue with my thyroid because aside from increased menstrual bleeding and cold feet I don’t have any of the more obvious symptoms, such as a hoarse voice, a puffy face, or weight gain (in fact I’ve lost weight over the last year). Nevertheless, here is a link on the symptomology of thyroid issues: http://womenshealth....-disease.html#d.

I think it is more likely that I have estrogen dominance as a result of prolonged spiro use. But, as I said in another thread (sorry for being all over the place ladies but sometimes you have to in order to quote posters directly and stay on topic), I resisted this diagnosis for so long because I just didn’t understand how estrogen could cause acne when it had always been touted as beneficial to acne by the medical community (birth control!).

Additionally, as I said in another thread, I am eager to get off of spiro but I don’t want to be reckless about it since I had the worst experience of my life when I quit the birth control Diane 35 cold turkey years ago. The acne that had always been concentrated on my chin encompassed my entire face and it was so painful I could barely sleep or eat. I don’t know if you’ve ever had nodular acne WishClean, but it’s the WORST ! In preparation to start DIM, last night I cut my spiro pill into several pieces and ended up taking approximately 87.5mgs (I cut the pill in half-50mgs, then a half in half-25mgs and then a half in half-12.5mg and took those three pieces to total 87.5mgs). I plan to slowly reduce my spiro dose over a period of several months in order to reduce the risk of a rebound. I did this the second time I took and subsequently quit birth control to much better results than the aforementioned cold turkey time (my acne returned but not worse than pre-treatment).

Still, I am nervous to pin my hopes on DIM. And I am nervous to take DIM while still on spiro but I need to treat my acne. I have a very bad nodule at the moment that is impeding my ability to move my mouth without feeling pain . Do you have any more advice regarding my spiro/DIM dilemma or anything else? I find your and hearts advice and encouragement priceless!

 

Thank you for your research, WishClean. I suspected something like that kind of behavior from spiro because I didn't get some of the side effects until the one year mark. It makes me really glad that I quit using it.

 

brenmc, I think it's smart to not quit cold turkey like you said. You are doing the right thing if you want to stop taking it. I weaned down for months because I was scared too... I still did end up breaking out, but you might have a better chance actually starting another anti-androgen whilst weaning down. I used NPC while weaning which helped all the estrogen issues but it wasn't enough to stop all of the acne from returning. I would bet big money that I would have stayed clear if I had used DIM earlier.

 

It could be your answer, and I don't want to be a downer but it also may not be. DIM works really for some and not others but you don't know if it will unless you try. Nothing has been working for you as of yet and DIM has worked for so many, so of course I think you should give it a shot. I really want you to be clear and not have to deal with acne anymore. It's your choice, though. If after 4 months you don't see any improvement, at least you can knock it off the list. Like I said in the other thread, DIM worked slowly and subtly for me, but I saw some improvement after a couple months. 

 

^^ Well said, hearts :)

Thanks hearts. I hear what you're saying about DIM potentially not being right for me. But, as you said, it's worth a try. Maybe if I list some of my symptoms you ladies could tell me if you think they align with estrogen dominance and with the issues DIM treats?:

-multiple and irregular periods and spotting. I have had two periods in July alone and am now spotting, so potentially a third.
-decreased sex drive.
-carry some excess weight in the stomach. Though I have a normal BMI and am not overweight.
-bloating throughout the day
-anxiety. This is directly associated with my acne though.
-acne.
-mild hirsuitism. I notice a few extra blonde and soft-textured (not coarse) hairs around my chin when my acne is at its worst.

Thanks again for the support hearts and WishClean, I appreciate it so much! <3

B
 

 

 

Did spiro cause irregular periods and spotting, or was your cycle irregular before spiro?

I have all other symptoms you listed (but my cycle is regular, even with PCOS...I put it down to low GI diet/ insulin control/ low histamine diet) , but the strange thing is that my sex drive was too high, not low. Adding DIM actually normalized my sex drive, but when I tried to back down to 50mg (from 200, then 150, then 100), my sex drive got higher again and I broke out on one side of my face. So now I'm back up to 100mg to see if that helps. 




#3444289 Now What?

Posted by WishClean on 30 July 2014 - 12:32 AM

So, it's been months (and after years of clear skin) I am still struggling with nodular acne I've tried a bunch of things, including progesterone cream, vitamins and prescription medications. I KNOW everyone recommends I get my hormones tested but that is NOT an option for me at this time, so if that's your comment please don't comment!

 

 

My mom insisted I try B5 because of some reviews she's seen online, I've been taking 500mg once daily for a little while now, is it possible that this could be impeding any improvement? My acne was really bad when I started it, so I can't say if it made it worse, but I'm still breaking out, so it hasn't helped.

 

 

I’m still on spiro, and no, it's not helping much, but it did before and I worry if I completely cut it out my acne will be ten times worse.

 

 

Should I try a bc, I've seen some good things about zovia and orthocycline? Does anyone have good or bad experiences with either of these?

 

hi brenmc,

I wasn't sure where to post this, but you might find it interesting in regards to this thread. I was reading some posts on acne.org of people who relapse after a treatment...some of them after accutane, others after other treatments...it seems like 2 years is the most common time span when those treatments stop working. It happened to me with vitex, and with multivitamins....about every 2 years my acne gets worse, with the exception of last year where it was worsening for longer. I used to have 1 year breaks from acne, then back to worsening (sometimes not as bad as other years). Even on birth control, I would have a year where it would get worse. 

Anyway, I looked up hormonal treatments to see if the 2 year curse could happen, and I couldnt find anything definite on birth control pills (it's late at night, I'm sleepy...could be why), but I did see this study on spironolactone. http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC3315877/

One thing is this: "The potential for spironolactone to induce estrogen-dependent malignancies still remains controversial." [I say, where there's smoke, there's fire...Although no concrete evidence about spiro's effects on estrogen, this theory shows it could very well raise the cancerous type of estrogen in the body]

 

Also, read this part about long term use...I believe those claims about the so-called lack of conclusive date are just there to reassure consumers and sell more drugs.

 

"In the rodent study, two years of ingesting spironolactone (at 25–250 times the exposure dose in humans) resulted in benign adenomas of the thyroid and testes, malignant mammary tumors, and proliferative changes in the liver.31 The potential for spironolactone-related breast cancer was also raised in 1975 after a case report of breast carcinoma that occurred in five women who were concurrently using several medications, including spironolactone.32,33This led the manufacturer to recommend avoiding unnecessary long-term use in a black box warning.31"

 

Where am I going with this? Well, maybe after I get some sleep I can digest this information better. But, if we take into account on the rat tests, it seems that spironolactone could have the potential to cause adrenal disruptions (thyroid) and liver issues. Hence the recommendation to avoid long-term use, which even the manufacturer had to include in the warning leaflet (not sure if it's still there, this was back in the 70s). So basically I'm saying your theory could be correct...that spiro stopped working. And also, what I mentioned months ago: that it caused other issues. Perhaps you should have lowered the dose to a maintenance dose, like they suggest in this study after 12 weeks....but still, it doesn't seem like that would keep persistent acne at bay. I don't have a solution for your current skin problems, but maybe if you look into why spironolactone stops working and what problems it can cause, then you can address those problems? Worth a shot maybe.