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#21 terminator2

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Posted 28 August 2003 - 07:01 PM

yes, smoothbeam has arrived in the uk. Another option is now open to me. I would some advise though. I am currently having n-lite. I have had 1 of the scheduled 4 treatments. I am not using anything else on the face. My scars are on the cheeks, are red and slightly pitted (rolleding scars). After the 4 treatmetns should i have smoothbeam. Is it effectve for redness as well as the rolling scars? can someone summarise the smoothbeam treatemnt?

#22 longits

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 12:59 PM

terminator: Smoothbeam and N-Lite lasers works in the same way: to promote collagen growth. Smoothbeam looks better than N-Lite because is a little more invasive. But i really think that after your 4 N-Lite sessions, your face will look a lot of better. Try to tell to your doctor to increase the energy, in my case, it works better (last sessions was really so high and i get a lot of redness, but 3 days later it has gone).

Anyway, from what i readed in this forum, there are very happy users of Smoothbeam; but recently the people is beginnig to doubt about it. I think that sometimes is very important to analyze something: this lasers are not A SOLUTION; they only just will help us. Some people with very good results, and other, with low.

I think too that if you have the 4 N-Lite sessions, and after this the smoothbeam, you'll have to expect a minium of 50 per cent of improvement; if you don't see it, then you'll have to change the treatment (trying other things, like high glycolics acids, tretinoin, etc).

#23 terminator2

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Posted 29 August 2003 - 05:50 PM

thanks longits. Do u think it is ok to have 4 n-lites and then maybe a have afew smoothbeam treatments after?

#24 longits

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Posted 30 August 2003 - 01:22 PM

Terminator2: I don't know so exactly, but i think that if you do smoothbeam (of course, after wait 3-4 months post-nlite), you will enhace the results obtained.

But i have to tell you something: if you do the treatment that you're telling (4 sessions, one each month), and the scars that you have are like you say, i think that after 3 months aprox. the improvement will be so really nice. I mean, if your scars (at it seems) are not so serious scars, N-Lite will help you very very good. And maybe after the 4 sessions you don't need smoothbeam.

At the moment, i don't have so much information about who smoothbeams works exactly. But what i can tell you is that the tecnology of these lasers are the same: promote collagen. N-Lite works at 585 nm, and Smoothbeam at more higher nm. Maybe because this, smoothbeam appears to be more effective.

What i recommend to you is that after the 4 sessions of N-Lite, wait for 4 months. Then, if you see that you're face has not improved, take the smoothbeam.

Good luck, and please keep us posted about your treatment!

#25 terminator2

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Posted 30 August 2003 - 03:14 PM

thanks longits. That's probably what i will do. How much improvement have u seen from your 4 n-lites.

I haven't been able to find out how long it takes to recover from smoothbeam. I mean can i go out the next day, or socialise? can u wear make up immediately after?

Longits good luck. What do you plan to do next or are u now happy with the overalll results? I will definiately keep u posted about my next n-lite treatment, which will in the next few days. Keep me posted with your results too?

Thanks mate

#26 longits

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Posted 30 August 2003 - 05:08 PM

In the more bad zones, where i recieved 4 N-Lite sessions (but so much distanced, i think this was my fail), the improvement is rounding 40-50 per cent at this moment, but my doctor tell me that i have to wait more. The two firsts are from a different doctor that the two last. The two lasts were so much better, because the doctor uses the laser at very high level (it makes me a lot of redness who fades away at 3-4 days). By this reason, i have to wait 3 months to tell you about the new results.

I have readed in one post that you send that with n-lite/smoothbeam the improvement can be at 90-100 per cent. Ok, that is very relative. If your scars are lower, very lower, maybe this percentaje could be performed. But if your scars are just "a little" serious, this is fake. But, in my opinion, the results from n-lite are accumulated; i mean, if you have 2 sessions every 3-4 months, the improvement will be really amazing.

VERY IMPORTANT: you couldn't repeat n-lite always that you want. That is what i think that maybe you have to say to your doctor. I have readed that if N-Lite is repeated very fast, the effects are bad (you can damage collagen). That is what i FULL RECOMMEND to you (as my doctor tells me):

a) Have N-Lite. Then wait for 15-40 days to repeat it (THIS TWO TIMES THAT YOU HAVE N-LITE IS CALLED ONE SESSION).

B) Wait a minium of 3-4 MONTHS TO REPEAT IT

c) After this, another session (2 times N-Lite separated 15-40 days).

Your treatment could be better than this, because you say that you'll repeat it every month for 3-4 times. I think too that this can be a very nice option, but i don't have readed anything from anyone who has do it before; maybe you obtain the best of the improvements, or maybe the lower. Only time will say.

My personal experience:

a) The first two sessions, doctor uses 2,5 in the first and 2,7 in the second. After 3-4 months, 20-30 per cent of improvement.

B) The other two sessions, doctor uses 3,7 and 4 (the maxium i think).

#27 terminator2

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Posted 30 August 2003 - 08:39 PM

longits thanks again. I only said 90% improvement as i have read it in this forum somewhere. I have not experienced this, so cannot give an personal experinecd opinion - only quoting what i've read. Must have been for minor scars.

Anyway, my treatment consists of all 4 treatemtns at 2.5. I had my first, the second is in a few days (which is 16 days after the first). I will then have the next one, 1 month after and then the last one a month after. I then plan to wait for 3 months, assess the results and then consider smoohtbeam, which has just recently come out in london.

Longits, do u think i should put anything ele on the fae while i do these n-lite treatments. Will anything help?

I was told that n-lite is not god for red marks in the scars, but is smoothbeam good for this? From what i've read so far, it seems smoothbem is the best option out at the moment. Should i just switch to smoothbeam or finish off the 3 remaining n-lite's???????

#28 longits

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Posted 31 August 2003 - 04:58 AM

If you see that N-Lite is working, i will not change to Smoothbeam, that's my opinion.

Look, from my point of view, N-Lite works very good, but little to little, and you have to know the limitations; i mean, you can not wait for a 80 or more of improvement after just one or two sessions. That is the problem because the people says that it doesnt works. And, of course, if your scars are really bad, maybe with 4-5 sessions you can see just a very little improvement.

From what i readed of the people talkin about N-Lite and smoothbeam, i have to say a lot of things, because is not right to say that this lasers doesn't works if you don't have the correct procedure. Look:

I have readed from a topic: "non ablative laser just don't works, i have done one session and wait 3 months and i see no results"--> when i see this (it was the first topic that i see talking about nlite) i asked in private to this people about the treatment, and a lot of details. She tells me that the doctor doesn't give her any instruction (to avoid aspirins and antiinflammatories,etc) and that she uses aloe for all over her face before and after the treatment (30 minutes before the n-lite, she has the aloe vera in his face). She drinks at the weekend, and smoke moderatily. Also, takes the sun, but always with protection (and not so much).

And, from other point of view, there is something very important: is necessary to have before/after pictures of your face when you do N-Lite (in my case my doctor uses this and profilometry with silicone). Sometimes, after the 3 months, you see your face exactly like before...this is logical, and that is what happens to a lot of people. But if they could have the before photos, they will really think in a different way.

Look, i'm very happy with the nlite because i think that yes, works so little, but is the only thing that i see that just works in my case (well, as vinegar, but in a different way). And i think that for myself (i have two zones of my face with no so big scars, but they are very very very visible, all rolling scars), the solution is just to repeat the laser every 3-4 months. I would like too that Smoothbeam comes to Spain, to see the results. I have to tell you something, that the MOST of the posts that i read from smoothbeam are really amazing, and i think this is very significative. From this reason, if you have the possibility of having the smoothbeam, i recommend you that after the n-lite (if you see the results are not so good) wait a little time and then having smoothbeam. The way of working of the two lasers are exactly the same, but smoothbeam works with different power of the light (more higher, i think that is 1600 or something like this, and nlite at 585, but i'm not sure), and maybe this could be the reason of the better improvement.

---- To use in your face: i have readed that the use of tretinoin (Retin A, Isotrex) is really AMAZING combinated with non ablative lasers. I'm not using it because it peels so much my face, but if you can, do it. Do not use anythinf more. I just only wash my face with cool water every morning. I don't apply absolutely nothing.

---- 90% of improvement -> if they are rolling scars, with no more than 0,2-0,3 mm. , i think is possible after 4-5 sessions. But with very very good luck.

Don't wait for a miracle with n-lite. In my case, i'm having very good improvement, but my scars are exactly. I mean, they don't dissapear, but they looks better. I mean, when we talk about improvement, i have to say that 90 per cent is so so so high. With 90 of improvement, the scar just will be visible only after special ilumination. I think that the difficult of this is that to give a number of improvement is very inexact. In my case, the profilometry gives me from 40 to 50, depending of the scar (this is a objetive date).

Anyway, i'll keep you posted about all this.

#29 terminator2

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 02:03 PM

just had my 2nd n-lite. No problems whatsoever. It's been 15 days since my 1st n-lite. Next one is in 1 months time. No results yet, although it is still early days.
I am however, a bit concerned about the guy that does the n-lite on me. I think he misses areas and only goes over the face once and reasonably quickly. He is cheap though, but not sure whether he's doing a proper job. He only uses the laser at 2.5, and says will do so for the remaining 2 treatments as well. I feel this is low, but is as advised in the n-lite guildlines. I have light asain coloured skin, so perhaps he's just playing it safe, too safe. No redness or anything really signifncat after the treatment. Not sure if this is going to work. Will have next treatmet at the start of october and the last one in november. If i see results, like in 3 months after this, or the results are not satisfactory, i will get smoothbeam done in february.

I also have some stretch marks on my left bicep from weight-training. Is n-lite or smoothbeam good at getting rid of that?

#30 Maya

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 03:26 PM

I have had 2 n-lites - both at 2.5 setting - Dr Chu told me that this is the correct setting for light Asian skin (same as me) - he said, that one pass was as effective as many passes.

#31 terminator2

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Posted 02 September 2003 - 03:58 PM

thanks maya. How have u found the n-lite, i mean have u had any results or any improvement yet?

#32 longits

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 09:14 AM

Hello! yes, one pass is the best option, because two passes decreases the results. About the level of energy, 2,5, i don't know so much. I have a very white face, and maybe for this reason my doctor can gives me more energy; for darker skins, low energy is more appropiated. But don't worry, because (in teory) the results are exactly the same.

I'll have the next session rounding december-january. If i don't see a good improvement in these months, i'll wait more to do n-lite again. I'm waiting too for smoothbeam.

Good luck!

#33 Maya

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 11:40 AM

thanks maya. How have u found the n-lite, i mean have u had any results or any improvement yet?


Well, It's hard to say - I had my 1st N-Lite around 3 months ago, 2nd one 1 month ago - but at the same time, I have been doing so many other things (lactic peels, copper peptides, retin-a, vinegar AND now... the new Alpha Lipoic Acid/DMAE cream etc...)

My skin tone is excellent - getting better all the time - I guess it's a combination of all those things.

My pits are more like ice picks, N-Lite will only have minimal results on those - but in conjunction with subcision/needling etc... they have shown improvement. I expect for shallow scars they are fantastic.

By the way, I had my 3rd N-Lite today!! (AND punch excision on 12 ice pick scars!!) - this time I asked Dr Chu if he could up the setting since I had no red faced type reaction last time - so I had it on setting 3. This time, I actually felt it as a slight stinging and burning (no more than slight) which I did not experience before.

#34 longits

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 02:19 PM

Hello Maya!! It happens to me the same. My doctor uses on me 3,7 and 3,9 - 4, and it hurts but very very little. But the next day, i was very worried about the redness. The points were the laser has done was very visible, and the colour was red turning into purple. After 3-4 days it decreases a lot, and after a week, my face looks normal.

Now, i'm 2 weeks after the laser. At the moment, no results are visible. Every morning i'm drinking one lemon and two oranges juice (squeezed in the moment of taking it). I don't know why, but the skins gets a nice colour with this.

I have passed a bad days, i think that is a lot of difficult to fight against all this.

I have learned a lot in this forum, and i would like to say thanks to all the people who posts with their experiences, good or bad, but that helps to all us. I'm looking at all the posts talking about smoothbeam, and i really think that the next session that i try with a laser will be this. I will wait till it comes to my country (candela told me that they'll give me information).

Please post with your results if you can!! Good luck, and thanks to all!

#35 Guest_niko_*

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Posted 03 September 2003 - 02:46 PM

Maya, from what I have heard, this Dr. Chu is one of the best around, if he is handling this, I think your almost guranteed good results, good luck

#36 longits

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 03:15 PM

Today in a newspaper from Spain talks about non ablative lasers. Basically it says that they are not working at 100%, but that this tecnology is very new, and that in the 2004 it will appear more with better possibilities.

Also, it says and recommends to not use CO2 lasers, because non-ablative lasers can produce the same improvement without downtime. But i readed later that the next non-ablative lasers will have to be more agressive to produce very nice results.

Sounds good! [-o<

#37 Maya

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Posted 04 September 2003 - 03:27 PM

Yes I think you're right longits - these non-ablative lasers need to be more aggressive - maybe that is what smoothbeam is about - a more aggressive version of N-Lite? Even still, most people are saying that these non-abl lasers are not good for deep scarring like mine - so I have to have many other procedures along with it.

Niko - yes, I am VERY pleased with Dr Chu. He's my new best friend :D I think that the N-Lite with excision will be my saviour - but I will need to have a few more sessions of excision because my scars are too close together for him to get them all at once.

#38 longits

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 05:30 AM

Hello! Yes Maya, i investigate Smoothbeam for a few days, and what i found is exactly this: smoothbeam works at a higher wave length than n-lite, and this stimulates collagen very good but is responsible too of the redness the two-three days later.

All these lasers sound very promising, and are very very recently (the new versions, smoothbeam and n-lite V).

At this moment i'm looking too for something really "strange": is a cream called "Creme de Le Mer". This cream was performed by a engineer of the Nasa that burns all his skin in a accident. Is a very very expensive cream, but from what i readed, it is very very incredible.

I'm looking too much to Cuba too, because i know they are the most advanced country in dermatology of the world (yes, i know it sounds strange), because my derm told me that they have all the knowledge about EGF (epidermal grow factor), and that there are one or two creams avaliable (but very very difficul to obtain).

#39 Maya

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 06:19 AM

longits - I know about Creme de la mere - it is hyped up cream - it is now owned by Estee Lauder and really it does not help scars much - maybe red marks (but all moisture helps red marks) - just a good moisteriser with good vitamins and oils in it - you should look at the Alpha Lipoic Acid thread - there is a receipe for face cream that will be better than the Creme de la mer one - I am using it and loving it. Don't waste your money - the reviews by real people are not too good - do a google search and you will see not many rave about it for scarring.

I expect Cuba/Brazil - places in S. America may be very good for cosmetic surgery and anything to do with looks - I read once that the S.Americans value their looks so much that nearly all of them have had some sort of surgery.

#40 longits

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Posted 05 September 2003 - 02:49 PM

Hello Maya! Thank you very much for your information, because the cream is really expensive, and what i found in google says exactly what you say.

Yes, i'm very interested too in the alpha lipoic acid, and i'm trying to find a cream in Spain with this ingredient. Yesterday i saw one that sounds really amazing, because it was combinated with zinc oxide (i read that is good for skin) but it has aloe vera too, and i prefer to wait a little more before putting something with aloe.

I buy a cream with retinol (is better than retynil palmitate, and it doesn't dry the skin like tretinoin) that is non comedogenic. I doesn't found anything with copper peptides!!I'm thinkin of buying it by internet, because i read from many posts that is working very good.

Drinking lemon is working on me really good. I think that squeezing in the moment is the more important thing. I drink every morning the juice of two oranges and medium/one lemon (after i breakfast, because is very acid). I'm using in one scar (not treated with anything) vine vinegar (6º acidity), and is going good, i think it needs more time.

Ahhh!! I think that i found why vinegar helps with scars. I read in one post of the forum that maybe can help to stimulate collagen. What i read is in relation, but is not exactly this. Vinegar is a potent natural "peel" for the skin. I mean, it increases the renovation of the cells. But what is REALLY AMAZING is that vinegar has sufficient "power" to create a little "lession" to the fibroblast (due to the important properties of peel, not exactly by stimulating collagen directly) and by this indirect reaction create a synthesis of collagen.

I'll keep you posted! :D