Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

I am cured. It was the diet after all.

65 posts in this topic

If there's anything specific you want to know about how acne is related to diet, the liver and general health I'd be happy to explain it to you.

Ok. Let's take my mother for example. She had a bad case of acne when she was younger that left her with scars. The acne disappeared when she was about 25 or so. What happened? Did her diet chance? No, that i know. Did her liver suddenly start to work properly? Did the stones in her liver melt away?

I'm 28 and suffer from acne. Is there something wrong with my liver or diet? If there is something wrong with my liver or it is full of stones and doesn't work properly, why isn't there an increase in my liver enzymes levels?

I'm trying to understand this, so please do explain.


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Overwhelming Evidence. Now if you could just produce any evidence whatsoever. That would be nice.

You don't have to look very hard on the internet to find enormous amounts of anecdotal evidence of the diet/acne link.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think causes acne? Do you think it just randomly appears on people's faces?

If there's anything specific you want to know about how acne is related to diet, the liver and general health I'd be happy to explain it to you.


Locnar

Reviled but not restrained.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If there's anything specific you want to know about how acne is related to diet, the liver and general health I'd be happy to explain it to you.

Ok. Let's take my mother for example. She had a bad case of acne when she was younger that left her with scars. The acne disappeared when she was about 25 or so. What happened? Did her diet chance? No, that i know. Did her liver suddenly start to work properly? Did the stones in her liver melt away?

I'm 28 and suffer from acne. Is there something wrong with my liver or diet? If there is something wrong with my liver or it is full of stones and doesn't work properly, why isn't there an increase in my liver enzymes levels?

I'm trying to understand this, so please do explain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Anecotal evidence is nice, but it doesn't prove anything. There is no strong evidence linking diet and acne. There's some, but nothing concrete. So far nothing but ancedotes. Anecdotes frequently don't hold up under controlled studies, because when you account for all the variables, there's no effect left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The difference, in simple terms, between people who get acne and people who don't is that people who do have higher levels of DHT.

Who wants to be normal? Who wants normal results? We want to be exceptional. Exceptions confirm what is not normal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Flim Flam: I'm getting really tired of you saying that no studies have been done concerning diet and acne. The last time you posted that, I pulled up several studies after only minutes of research. That statement fits into your theory of the evil pharmacutical/doctor conspiracy, but it's a plain lie. Studies are done about diet and health ALL THE TIME. For example the recent finding on Lycopene and prostate health. Stop spreading this lie.


Locnar

Reviled but not restrained.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Subjects receiving a high-protein diet (44% protein, 35% carbohydrate, and 21% fat) showed a substantially less 5-alpha-reduction of testosterone [DHT]and an enhanced cytochrome P-450 hydroxylation of estradiol [liver enzyme, (bad) estrogen elimination], both therapeutic goals. A high-carbohydrate diet (10% protein, 70% carbohydrate, and 20% fat) had the opposite effect (Kappas et al. 1983).


Who wants to be normal? Who wants normal results? We want to be exceptional. Exceptions confirm what is not normal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam,

Here's the original study to that article.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...8&dopt=Abstract

I do not push for the elimination of all carbohydrates. I abosolutely believe that there are good and bad carbs. Within those that have been touted as Good carbs (because of their fiber), some of them actually induce a greater Insulin Resistant Response, despite being low on the glycemic index. That's why I don't even bother with the Glycemic Index or Load, because it's not always an accurate indicator of how foods will affect your hormone levels.

Physical stress can reduce Insulin Resistance, thus lower testosterone levels, but if you carb load with that, it does the opposite. For those that live constantly in a state of stress, to the point that their adrenal glands are overactive, that can cause an imbalance and produce excess testosterone (hyperadrenalism, hypercortisolism).

On another recent diet thread, I mentioned how bad and persistant my acne was. At the age of 17 and 20, my Free Testosterone levels were 450% higher than the "high norm" for a female. Sadly enough, my Free T levels were about what the average man would produce. I also have abnormally high DHEA levels for females and males! I am so fortunate that acne & mild hirsutism was pretty much the bulk of how my genes chose to express this.

I have low-normal estrogen levels and estrogen is important in helping to bind Free Testosterone. Both Free Testosterone and DHEA androgens can be converted into DHT, which is suspect for most acne sufferers. Medications barely dented my DHEA levels, but they did affect my Free T. BC decreased that 50% and the addition of Spiro reduced it another 30%, but I still produced more than a female should... and it showed. So that was a total of 80% (or 360% if comparing female levels) decrease which was only about as clear as I would get during the summer, otherwise I was around 60% - 75% clear the rest of the year.

I've been dealing with my hormonal imbalance and acne for 16 years now. Females are supposed to produce more Estrogen than Testosterone, but I still have a Higher Testosterone to Estrogen ratio. Of course, this is somewhat thanks to my parents. I've got overwieght and some obestity on my moms side (her bad acne disappeared) and Diabetes Type II (Insulin Resistance is the precursor) on my fathers side. So dietary changes (w/o meds) and the results that I've had, do make sense for me. Unfortunately it only solved half of my hormonal problems (incl. ceasation of menstrual pain), the other half requires some form of a DHT Inhibitor or Blocker to alleviate hair loss and mild hirsutism.

So that's me, 99% clear and still researching ;-)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Avoid starches, but I can guarantee you that your energy levels will eventually flag. Not worth it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Avoid starches, but I can guarantee you that your energy levels will eventually flag. Not worth it.

Not true at all. If you had NO carbs that would be the case, but fruit and veg are full of carbs.

I experienced a surprising boost in energy when I eliminated sugars and grains. I can actually leap out of bed awak in the morning- that's definitely a new thing for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sam,

Here's the original study to that article.


Who wants to be normal? Who wants normal results? We want to be exceptional. Exceptions confirm what is not normal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam,

Sorry about that. The best way to get the full text article is to go to your local college or library and print it out. I posts abstracts usually because most people here can't access the full texts anyway.

Also, I have a high level of androgens and it lowered through dietary means, but that's because it lowered my steriod hormones overall.

If someone with regular levels altered their diet in a similar or exact fashion, their hormones would also lower overall.

LOL, no you don't need a 360% reduction (compared to normal females), I don't know how much you would have to reduce yours ;-) What has your doctor said? What are your androgen hormone levels. Then again, maybe you do need a 360% reduction.

Bear in mind, at that time I was taking those two drugs (antiandrogen and DHT inhibitor) and they only lowered my levels down to a 2 ( I was still breaking out). Changing my diet, with no meds brought about a much greater reduction. Now, the normal amount of Free Testosterone for a female is 0 - 1.4, whereas for a male it's 4 - 26 (I was at a 10).

Oh, if I do find a full text though, I do try to post if its not too long. There's one article that isn't full text but it provides more details and really shows the difference between how a Low Glycemic Carb (Wheat) can affect your hormones more negatively than a High Glycemic Carb (rice), along with some other foods. That is an awesome study, it shows how regular people can alter their hormones through dietary intake, and I definately need to locate the full text. Anyway, here ya go:

Cornell-China study suggests rice-based diet

FOR RELEASE: March 25 1996

Contact: Susan Lang

Office: (607) 255-3613

E-mail: [email protected]

ITHACA, N.Y. -- A diet based on wheat foods such as pasta, bread and cereal may be contributing to this nation's soaring rates of diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and coronary heart disease, according to a new Cornell University study.

On the other hand, rice-based diets, and to a lesser extent fish and green vegetables, appear to lower the level of blood values associated with the risk of these diseases. These findings, published in the January 1996 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, come from the Cornell-China-Oxford Project on Nutrition, Health and Environment, a massive survey across the far reaches of China that investigates more diseases and dietary characteristics than any other study to date.

In 3,250 Chinese women living in widely dispersed rural counties, the researchers examined the relationship of various foods with a specific set of biochemical blood tests that have been shown to be commonly linked with diabetes, obesity, high blood pressure and coronary heart disease -- otherwise collectively known as the "insulin resistance syndrome."

"We found that the pattern of blood biochemistries of people in the northern part of China who eat a predominantly wheat- based diet resemble those in people with insulin resistance," said Jeffrey Gates, who has a doctorate in health sciences and works in Cornell's Division of Nutritional Sciences; he collaborated with T. Colin Campbell, the Cornell biochemist and director of the China project, Banoo Parpia, Cornell research associate, and Chen Junshi of the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine in Beijing.

This pattern includes higher insulin, higher triglycerides, and lower sex hormone binding globulin (a measure of insulin resistance).

"The Chinese women in the south, on the other hand, eat a rice-based diet and have a pattern of blood values that would be considered low risk," Gates added.

In the past couple of decades, many studies have pointed to insulin as being a common factor linking such diverse disorders as high blood pressure, diabetes and coronary heart disease. Recent research also has discovered that sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG), a relatively unknown blood protein, is a reasonably good indicator of insulin resistance. Low levels of SHBG are consistently linked to high levels of insulin in the body. Sustained high levels of insulin are, in turn, associated with the development of the chronic diseases mentioned above.

The Cornell researchers, therefore, looked at SHBG, triglycerides, cholesterol, insulin, testosterone, glucose and 21 different food groups. Factors commonly associated with insulin resistance, such as meat consumption, smoking, and weight were controlled for in the analysis.

"Though other foods such as fish and green vegetables were associated with changes in blood parameters studied, the strong effects of rice and wheat on SHBG were remarkable and unexpected," Gates said. "Women in the northern, wheat- eating counties consistently had low HDL levels, high triglycerides, and low SHBG, all suggestive of insulin resistance. Evidently, rice and wheat can have significantly different effects on the important biochemical parameters we measured." Interestingly, both the rice and wheat consumed in these Chinese regions are semi-refined. Gates stressed, however, that while rice and wheat appear to make the biggest impact on SHBG and insulin, certain other foods in the Chinese meal also have an important effect on SHBG and insulin changes in the blood, and thus ultimately, on those diseases associated with insulin resistance.

Gates speculates that "the differing effects of wheat and rice on SHBG and insulin may be due to the difference in amylose content, a particular kind of starch." Other researchers have found that some rice varieties have higher amylose content than wheat; some rices, on the other hand, have comparable levels.

"Several recent studies have shown that starches with higher amylose content slow down glucose absorption and thus reduce the insulin response of the meal," Gates added. "Clearly, the effects of wheat or rice on insulin response must not be isolated from the important influence of other dietary and lifestyle factors such as fat and exercise. However, this study lends support to the idea that certain starches may play an important role in the development of insulin resistance and thus increase an individual's risk for diabetes, hypertension, and coronary artery disease."

http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/March....wheat.ssl.html

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=8604665

SHBG is something that estrogen increases. Testosterone decreases this, and considering that SHBGs goal is to primarly bind to Free Testosterone and deactivate it (so it won't become DHT) I guess that makes sense. This is one of several ways that controlling your Insulin levels, among other elements, affect your hormones. You can have regular testosterone levels, the questions are how much of it is Free Testosterone and how sensitive to DHT are you.

So what kind of diet did you try again? What's the health history in your family?

Bye for now


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sam,

Another thing they talk about for basically any health problem, and this includes Prostate problems (associated with DHT and bad estrogens), is that our diets lack fiber (we need at least 25 g/day). Vegetarians are 50% as likely to get cancer as non-vegetarians (that would be me), but what's interesting is that they eat loads more fiber and plenty of vegetables with cancer fighting potential (scientists are looking more into this...yeah). Yes vegetarians do get acne, and if they are loading up on the grains, particulary refined grains (or something else that they are intolerant to), that could be why. Anyway, here's what some articles say about this:

Vegetarian Food Goes to Jail

"The prison has two dining halls and two feeding lines with all food made in one kitchen. Breads and rolls are made in the prison bakery. Those 50 to 60% selecting the NEWSTART Program are fed a vegan diet, except for the weekend when desserts such as cakes or puddings with milk and eggs are brought in. These inmates receive no meat, fish, chicken, dairy products, eggs, or sugar with their weekday meals. Because of budget limitations, it was necessary to deviate from the vegan meal program on weekends.

"Yes. A Massachusetts study on male aging showed that men who had higher levels of SHBG (sex-hormone binding globulin) in their blood were rated by their wives as less aggressive and less domineering. SHBG is a protein that binds to testosterone and reduces its activity, which is generally a good thing. As it happens, high fiber diets boost SHBG."

"Anglen detailed some of the health improvements of the vegan inmates. He described how diabetics were able to rid themselves of medications, a good number saw their skin conditions improved, many lost excess weight, and most felt more energetic. ""

http://www.vegparadise.com/news18.html

"Effects of diet and exercise on insulin, sex hormone-binding globulin, and prostate-specific antigen.

Tymchuk CN, Tessler SB, Aronson WJ, Barnard RJ.

Department of Physiological Science, School of Medicine, University of California, Los Angeles 90095-1527, USA.

A diet high in fat has been linked to prostate cancer, possibly through an influence on hormones. Sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG) binds androgens and is regulated in part by insulin. Diet and exercise can modify insulin levels, potentially affecting SHBG and the biologically available levels of androgens. To determine the effects of a low-fat (< 10% of calories), high-fiber diet plus daily exercise on insulin, SHBG, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), and serum lipids, we measured the levels of these factors in the serum of 27 obese men undergoing a three-week diet-and-exercise program. Insulin decreased from 222 +/- 30 to 126 +/- 21 pmol/l (p < 0.01), and SHBG increased from 18 +/- 2 to 25 +/- 3 nmol/l (p < 0.01). Body mass index decreased from 35 +/- 1.9 to 33.4 +/- 1.8 kg/m2 (p < 0.01). PSA levels were normal and did not change significantly, although in a small subset of men (n = 3) with slightly elevated PSA levels (> 2.5 ng/ml) all showed a decrease. The three-week diet-and-exercise intervention decreased insulin and lipid levels while increasing SHBG. The increase in SHBG would result in more testosterone being bound and, therefore, less of the androgen available to act on the prostate. The decrease in insulin might also decrease mitogenic activity in the prostate. The diet-and-exercise regimen did not have a significant impact on normal PSA levels. Although modest, these changes may be protective against the development of prostate cancer."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=9770724

Of course with these studies, they are all the same they either just say Fiber (what kind?) or Wheat Bran. The problem there is that the type of fiber may very well affect how high or low your androgen levels are. Hopefully in the future, they'll figure that out to and put in a clincal study. ;-)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So what kind of diet did you try again?  What's the health history in your family?


Who wants to be normal? Who wants normal results? We want to be exceptional. Exceptions confirm what is not normal

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites