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#1 thief_of_cookies

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Posted 16 March 2005 - 08:25 PM

Just wondering if carbohydrates affect your acne in some way. I think I remember someone mention an article about carbohydrates being linked to acne. Carbohydrates are like breads and pasta and stuff...

#2 secondregent

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 09:07 AM

They generally break me out.
When I am forced to eat them I make sure I do the oil swish (search the forums for 'oil swish' if you're unsure what it is) to get rid of all the toxins it causes.
But there are lots of other things, like canned tuna etc.

#3 Minnym0use

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:34 AM

QUOTE(thief_of_cookies @ Mar 16 2005, 09:25 PM)
Just wondering if carbohydrates affect your acne in some way. I think I remember someone mention an article about carbohydrates being linked to acne. Carbohydrates are like breads and pasta and stuff...

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Yep and there's research by Dr. Neil Mann in Australia at RMIT that is soon to be published that says that exact thing - refined carbohydrates affect acne. Not ALL carbs though - he suggests lots of fruits and vegetables.

That is how my 17 year old cured his cystic acne. But, he remains faithful to it and does't binge on weekends, etc....

Good question to put out there.


#4 Guest_Avian_*

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:48 AM

QUOTE(Minnym0use @ Mar 17 2005, 04:34 PM)
Yep and there's research by Dr. Neil Mann in Australia at RMIT that is soon to be published that says that exact thing - refined carbohydrates affect acne.  Not ALL carbs though - he suggests lots of fruits and vegetables.

That is how my 17 year old cured his cystic acne.  But, he remains faithful to it and does't binge on weekends, etc....

Good question to put out there.

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Are you able to give a rough date of when this study will be published?

#5 phil_b

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:04 AM

Ive said loads of times before. when i was attempting atkins for about 6 months, my skin was awesome. Then i moved back out to university, where living on meat etc is expensive, and went back to almost all carbs. I had my worst break out ever, coincidence?? prob not.
Ive been back on the meat for nearly a month and my skin is clearing up rapidly.

#6 phil_b

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 11:06 AM

i dont think our bodies are designed to handle the sheer volume of carbs in todays average diet, hence why they cause so much weight gain too...

#7 hanzuno

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:07 PM

i think if i eat alot of it then my acne will definitely be aggravated

#8 lioness

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 12:57 PM

QUOTE(Minnym0use @ Mar 17 2005, 04:34 PM)
Yep and there's research by Dr. Neil Mann in Australia at RMIT that is soon to be published that says that exact thing - refined carbohydrates affect acne.  Not ALL carbs though - he suggests lots of fruits and vegetables.

That is how my 17 year old cured his cystic acne.  But, he remains faithful to it and does't binge on weekends, etc....

Good question to put out there.

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Hi Minny,

i've been following your posts with interest and am giving this diet thing ago. Do you know when and where the study by Dc Mann is going to be published? I tried to contact him but haven't had a response - I wonder if you could post all his emails? that'd be great.
thanks a load xx


#9 Minnym0use

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 01:38 PM

QUOTE(lioness @ Mar 17 2005, 01:57 PM)
Hi Minny,

i've been following your posts with interest and am giving this diet thing ago.  Do you know when and where the study by Dc Mann is going to be published?  I tried to contact him but haven't had a response - I wonder if you could post all his emails? that'd be great.
thanks a load xx

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Here's some excerpts from his emails when I questioned what the study was about:

--We are finding different people have different levels of sensitivity
but your sons diet of moderate level of carb foods and the type (most
sound low GI) should be very good. Look for low GI labelled foods and
get a book that lists GI of foods such as Jennie Brand-Miller's various
GI books, but there are many others. The brown rice is probably the
only thing you mention that could be still high GI (there are even
different types of brown rice) Our subjects ate limited amounts of
whole grain products and limited amounts of rice (low GI basmati) but no
high GI carb foods. I think whole grain low GI foods, should be OK
along with meats and fish (I doubt if the fat at this stage of life is
a worry for your son for acne, weight gain or heart disease, may be
later in life), in fact he may need extra fat and protein to provide him
more energy to make up for the decreased carbs. Certainly avoid sugary
sweet items like sweetened fruit juice and sodas and any product made
from flour or potatoes. Lots of vegetables, fruits and meat and fish
and nuts and beans, and soy. If he seems also sensitive to dairy as
some teenagers are then stay off dairy until acne phase is over.


--We are nearing completion of our study and will publish this year.
Slow process because we not only need to show an improvement in visual
acne condition but blood chemistry changes that can be used to develop
an hypothesis as to what aspects of metabolism are being altered by diet
to effect an acne change. This blood analytical work is happening now
and we are seeing complex metabolic changes that relate to various skin
cell abnormalities and acne. The dermatology side did show improvement
on our diet but I need to qualify this a little. Young boys do not
stick well on diets when they are free living and exposed to abundance
of processed foods. The boys on low glycaemic load diets did gradually
improve (4-8 weeks) if they kept to the diet which included:

Low starch and sugar intake, ie eliminate all high GI foods, which
eliminated most bread, potatoes, most rice, baked goods made from any
flour ie any refined carb product, some fruits also can have high carb
eg bananas so go easy on these, sweetened products with much added sugar,
glucose or corn syrup are very bad even fruit juices with added carb
sweeteners should be avoided.

Our diets were rich in meat, fish, vegetables, salads, most fruits,
nuts and very low in grain and sweetened foods. The unfortunate part
is that it takes several weeks to clear up the acne but only a day or
two to reactivate if a high GI carb food is consumed, this we cannot
alter, its just the way the metabolic process works, so the person must
be careful.

Finally we are not all genetically the same and your sons acne may not
respond to the same extent as others and there seem to be some rare
cases where the person has an intolerance to a particular food or food
group that stimulates acne for them individually, dairy is an example
for some people, so if the above does not work try food eliminations
over several weeks and try and identify any food group that he may be
reacting to.

**************


Minny talking:

I sent him an email telling him how much improvement I saw in my son's cystic acne from being on this for 1 month. He has one breakout on his cheek right now verses a whole face full prior to this diet. He is on NO medication.

Here's Dr. Mann's last email- he is reffering to my son's success.

--Very happy to hear this, fantastic for us researchers when we hear the
beneficial results of what we are working on, particularly when it does
not involve drugs.

Once we publish our study we will be talking at conferences in the USA
about it. I also hope to get print and TV media coverage so we can get
this knowledge out to millions of other young people and their families.
If you ever get an opportunity to present this information to media
particularly your US TV shows go for it and let me know. This is really
the best way to to communicate with the widest possible audience and as
you have seen the benefit can be outstanding.

My best wishes for your sons full recovery and his future.

***********

Minny again:

I hope this helps. Trust in your body and don't stray and I think you will see results. You may not have skin like a baby's butt, BUT you will see little by little that it just isn't as scary to look in the mirror. You know, if it weren't for the damn red marks and shallow scars on my son's cheeks he would have really nice skin. This too shall pass and slowly they will fade. Less is best when messing with creams, washes, etc.... You know, Perricone has a similar diet message, just that he has you dance around with salmon first thing every morning. There is no magic time to eat - just eat what Dr. Mann lists. There's actually a lot of food to choose from. If you are too young to grocery shop, print this, and ask your parents to allow you to purchase the proper foods and ask to help prepare them. Hey, my cholesterol went from 199 to 141 on this diet . I eat exactly what my son eats because it is so healthy. Bye for now - minny






#10 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 04:53 PM

I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall here but Gi is pretty much worthless for most foods. UNless they have the same carbs that was tested in the GI in one serving or what a person consumes in one sitting, it won't correlate.

If anything find the glycemic load.

#11 Wolfy

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 05:22 PM

However, until this guy gets his work peer-reviewed you should assume that it is only a potential answer. Not all research is correct. Still, if this jives with what you have experienced then you could cautiously experiment with your diet. The important thing is to make sure that your diet is balanced, by which I mean, you eat enough protein, fat and eat atleast 25g of carbs per day (which is very, very little BTW), get enough calories and ALL the vitamins and minerals your body needs.

There's also the point that he hasn't even published yet. That probably means he hasn't dotted every i and crossed every t yet. This alone might mean that the research is wrong.

I must admit, the basic idea does seem to roughly jive with my experience.

It all sounds pretty good; plausible and hopeful. But only that so far.

#12 Minnym0use

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 05:30 PM

QUOTE(Wolfkeeper @ Mar 17 2005, 06:22 PM)
However, until this guy gets his work peer-reviewed you should assume that it is only a potential answer. Not all research is correct. Still, if this jives with what you have experienced then you could cautiously experiment with your diet. The important thing is to make sure that your diet is balanced, by which I mean, you eat enough protein, fat and eat atleast 50g of carbs per day (which is very, very little BTW), get enough calories and ALL the vitamins and minerals your body needs.

There's also the point that he hasn't even published yet. That probably means he hasn't dotted every i and crossed every t yet. This alone might mean that the research is wrong.

I must admit, the basic idea does seem to roughly jive with my experience.

It all sounds pretty good; plausible and hopeful. But only that so far.

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eusa_wall.gif

#13 Minnym0use

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 06:22 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 17 2005, 05:53 PM)
I feel like I'm banging my head against the wall here but Gi is pretty much worthless for most foods. UNless they have the same carbs that was tested in the GI in one serving or what a person consumes in one sitting, it won't correlate.

If anything find the glycemic load.

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Just disregard GI then and eat what he says. Fruit is better than white bread and of course a banana is better than a coke. You won't have a heavy GI load if you eat the right foods. YOu would have to eat a huge serving of watermelon to surpass the GI load of a donut. It is all about choices among fruits, vegetables, lean proteins, beans, and if you stick with those you can't go wrong. Let's not confuse the issue for those trying to improve their diets. OK? eusa_shhh.gif



#14 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 06:55 PM

NO but on things like brown and wild rice it has a pretty low GI but a high GL. In essence it spikes you blood higher than what the GI will predict because a serving or two has a lot of carbs(Even though it's good carbs). I'm just saying that if you want a more accurate measurement of glucose in your blood the GL is better, even though some healthy foods(The wild rice) can spike it pretty fast.

But like you said for many veggies and fruits it has a very low actual GL but a very high GI(Carrots).

#15 Wolfy

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 07:33 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 18 2005, 01:55 AM)
NO but on things like brown and wild rice it has a pretty low GI but a high GL.

Which brown rice? Last time I checked there wasn't much to choose in general between brown and white rice or brown and white bread; contrary to popular belief, and many trashy magazine articles.

But don't take my word for it, check it out for yourself:

http://diabetes.abou...gi/ngilists.htm


#16 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 07:50 PM

Yes, all rice generally has the hame GL, but white is stripped of everything else. YOu can't just eat a diet based on GL, that's stupid as many foods with med. or high GL have vitamins, minerals, etc...

There are tons of breads with just as low a GL as veggies and fruit. 15 grain, sourdough, rye, 9 grain, whole grain, etc..... There are dozens that are low in GL.

As for rice there are 15,000 varieties. I'm sure you have options.

#17 Wolfy

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 08:15 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 18 2005, 02:50 AM)
There are tons of breads with just as low a GL as veggies and fruit. 15 grain, sourdough, rye, 9 grain, whole grain, etc..... There are dozens that are low in GL.

Yeah, rye breads. But they're only just barely 'breads' as most people understand the word. And they're definitely an acquired taste. And looking down the list, most of the ones that are low GL listed don't appear to be available in the UK where I am.


#18 JoeBlow832

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 09:01 PM

QUOTE(thief_of_cookies @ Mar 16 2005, 09:25 PM)
Just wondering if carbohydrates affect your acne in some way. I think I remember someone mention an article about carbohydrates being linked to acne. Carbohydrates are like breads and pasta and stuff...

View Post



I've had bad acne for about 15 years. Not to sound like a commercial but I tried every stupid cream, lotion, cleanser, diet and perscription you've ever heard of. And yes BP and "the regimen" does work but it never seems to get them all and you always have to keep it on your face 24/7 and as soon as you stop guess what... it comes back. So 6 months ago I had a bad break out and I got pissed so I spent a few days looking at other causes b/c it just isn't natural to have acne. When your skin looks bad be it from acne or a rash it's usually a symptom of a greater underlying problem with your body.

So while searching the net, I came upon the carbohydrate and insulin connection (the links are at the end of this post) and I was skeptical to say the least b/c I've tired cutting out all kinds of food in the past, (Dairy, meat, salt, sugar) but I read it b/c I was desparate and so I tried it. Well to make a long story short, it was the best decision I've ever made b/c 5 months later my face and body is smoother than a baby's ass. No zits, pimples, whiteheads, blackheads, no oil, no redness, no blotchyness. And damn am I happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It took about 2 weeks to see major improvment when I started and it's even harder to fight the cravings and also come up with food to replace the crap I used to eat. Here's what I've done to keep my face clear:

1. I cut out all simple carbs... refined sugar and flour and also potatos. So NO pasta, bread, crackers, donuts, potato chips. I cut out all foods high on the Glycemic index.

2. I eat lots of fruit, vegtables, dairy and protein (Chicken and fish mostly) I drink water or unsweetend tea, NO SODA not even gatorade.

3. Even though it never helped my acne before, I also take a GNC multivitamin for men and an antioxidant pill just to be sure I have what my skin needs.

4. After a while I added back some carbs in the form of whole grain breads and protein pasta but in small amounts ... and I always eat them with something else, never by themselves, b/c of the blood sugar and insulin raising effects. And I always watch my portions and I always read labels.


All this may sound like a pain in the ass to do but after awhile I got used to the change and I even felt better overall.... less anixety... I never feel the urge to pick at my face, I sleep better, I never feel depressed, and have more energy and at the gym I seem to put on muscle easier and I'm much more cut with much less effort. I know this maybe hard to believe and I might not have believed it either 6 months ago but for the first time in my life I'm free of acne and I've never been happier with myself and it's all b/c of this diet. Simple as that. And it really beats the hell out of putting BP on my face all the time and bleaching the collar of all my blue shirts.

Here are the two websites that really inspired me to try this out. Read them and see what you think.... If it doens't make any sense to you.... try it anyway. I've totally become a believer in the power of a healthy diet and I'm definately going to stick with it for the rest of my life.

http://www.iinr.org/...eports/ACNE.PDF
This is kinda long and the guy tries to push his own supplements but the rest of the info it brilliant.

http://www.dermadoct.....06096291079F}
This isn't the original PDF I found on the subject but it sums up the one I have. It's just some evidence of the diet and acne connection.

If you want more info just google: Acne and glycemic index

Good luck.






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#19 thief_of_cookies

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:48 PM

Ooh, I'm so excited! I can't wait until the new news is published. I'm sure it'd help a lot of people clear up their acne...

#20 bryan

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Posted 17 March 2005 - 10:50 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 17 2005, 07:55 PM)
NO but on things like brown and wild rice it has a pretty low GI but a high GL. In essence it spikes you blood higher than what the GI will predict because a serving or two has a lot of carbs(Even though it's good carbs). I'm just saying that if you want a more accurate measurement of glucose in your blood the GL is better, even though some healthy foods(The wild rice) can spike it pretty fast.

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You know, I'm not really all that pleased with _either_ the GI or the GL. The GL troubles me because of what I consider to be the rather capricious and arbitrary way that they decide on serving sizes. In my opinion, the best way of all would be to give a GL based on a FIXED amount of food (whatever the food happens to be), like 25 grams, 50 grams, 100 grams, or whatever. Then a consumer could keep that in mind as he eats the portion size he chooses for himself, and arrive at what I think would be a more accurate estimate of his glycemic load.

Bryan