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#21 bryan

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 10:52 AM

QUOTE
Milk is for cows not humans.


QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 8 2005, 09:36 PM)
Well, you've changed my mind. You're very persuasive.  eusa_wall.gif

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LOL!! I know what you mean, blackbirdbeatle!

With certain folks, it inevitably comes back down to the same simple-minded notion, doesn't it? You could quote a hundred scientists on the good nutritional qualities of milk, and they'll reply: "Milk is for cows not humans." Then you could give a scholarly treatise on the thousands-of-years-old history of maintaining animals as a food source, and they'll reply: "Milk is for cows not humans." Then you could present an erudite discussion of how humans are omniverous and can eat ANYTHING on the planet that contains good protein, vitamins, and minerals and that ultimately the word "natural" loses its meaning completely, and they'll reply: "Milk is for cows not humans."

Can you say: "Idée Fixe"?? I knew you could! biggrin.gif

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#22 bryan

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 11:16 AM

QUOTE(SteveLewis @ Mar 9 2005, 09:49 AM)
That comparison isn't valid at all. Cow's Milk is designed to be fed to baby cows. I don't see any baby trees needing fruit, or baby hanibal fishes. Those other things don't serve a specific purpose as Cow's milk does so it's more realistic that we eat them.

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Oh, so you don't think that fruit (with its seeds) serves a specific purpose in Nature, so it's perfectly ok and "natural" for humans to eat it, but somehow it's not "natural" to drink milk?? Now you're REALLY scraping the bottom of the barrel! wink.gif You're completely inconsistent.

QUOTE
After all, you don't see a Hyena walking up to a Lioness just to suck on it's nipples for nourishment. It's the same for us.


Steve, come on, man. It should be beneath your dignity to post such a silly reply.

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#23 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 12:15 PM

Kittens have been known to feed off of dogs milk. Same with various banyard animals. Besides the fact that this happens all the time(Happened at my aunts ranch when some kittens were abandoned and the dog fed them until they were old enough), its on the news every once in a while about some cute animal being taken care of by another species milkwise.

I didn't mean to be rude with that above comment it's just that who are you trying to convince with something as simple as cows milk is for cows wihout anythign else?

Aruing against dairy because of BGH and antibiotics isn't an attack on dairy I hope you realize, it's an attack on the practices of some suppliers in one country. There are organic alternatives in the states and most other counties don't include these things in their animals.

#24 bryan

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 12:34 PM

eusa_clap.gif Outstanding reply, blackbirdbeatle! eusa_clap.gif

I didn't even think of the obvious reply about inter-species milk drinking! wink.gif

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#25 Melchior

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 11:43 PM

Removed.

#26 Melchior

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Posted 09 March 2005 - 11:44 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 9 2005, 12:15 PM)
Kittens have been known to feed off of dogs milk. Same with various banyard animals. Besides the fact that this happens all the time(Happened at my aunts ranch when some kittens were abandoned and the dog fed them until they were old enough), its on the news every once in a while about some cute animal being taken care of by another species milkwise.

I didn't mean to be rude with that above comment it's just that who are you trying to convince with something as simple as cows milk is for cows wihout anythign else?

Aruing against dairy because of BGH and antibiotics isn't an attack on dairy I hope you realize, it's an attack on the practices of some suppliers in one country. There are organic alternatives in the states and most other counties don't include these things in their animals.

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Excellent reply! eusa_clap.gif

#27 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 11:24 AM

I see you're from Ontario. I know that in Canada BHG is not included in any milk. I'm not sure that this is a provincial thing but I do know 100% that in Alberta and in Saskatchewan and BC, there are abosultely no antibiotics either(If a cow gets sick they give it antibiotics and then test the milk until it's antibiotic free and then that cow's milk goes back into the market. The milk with the antibiotics doesn't go into the food supply).

Further much of the milk here is microfiltered, which extends the shelf life and gets rid of even more bacteria.

For me here in Alberta, and for most people in the rest of Canada, and for people in the EU and many other countries, the issue isn't with crappy practices or hormones or antibiotics, but with the natural hormone levels present in milk.

The line is do you believe that your body can handle a small increase in hormones, mainly IGF-1 and do you think your body could process those hormones effectively or do they cause acne. Perhaps for acne sensitive people any increase in hormones is bad, but you must realize that everything we do increases hormones. If you're stressed out it will release way more hormones than is naturally present in milk, when you sleep you release way more hormones, when you are concentrating hard you realease way more hormones, when yuo're scared you release a crap load of hormones, etc.... Yes many of these hormones are not IGF-1 but many are DHT and the bottom line is that no one really knows what hormones are responsible for acne and DHt is just as big a culprit as IGF-1.

I'm not doubting that milk increases hormone levels but I don't think that we can just take out milk and say okay the problem is solved because in the grand sceme of things, we have much more hormones circulating around our bodies from other things all the time. I believe that for most people, they can handle the natural hormones. I don't doubt though that some people, probably acne prone individuals, can't handle these hormones and should avoid all or certain kinds of dairy.
I just get miffed when people go from one extreme on the dairy stance to the other, especially when all the milk hate is over-the-top.

Again attack the production process, not dairy. Just a last point, when you are looking at studies take care to remember where the studies took place. REmember that milk int he US and much of the UK(Perhaps some countries are safer tahn others there, I don't know), are using milk that has much higher levels of IGF-1 and antibiotics. I would like to see a comparable study done in another country, unfortunately they are few and far between.


#28 Minnym0use

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 01:20 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Mar 9 2005, 01:15 PM)
Kittens have been known to feed off of dogs milk. Same with various banyard animals. Besides the fact that this happens all the time(Happened at my aunts ranch when some kittens were abandoned and the dog fed them until they were old enough), its on the news every once in a while about some cute animal being taken care of by another species milkwise.

I didn't mean to be rude with that above comment it's just that who are you trying to convince with something as simple as cows milk is for cows wihout anythign else?

Aruing against dairy because of BGH and antibiotics isn't an attack on dairy I hope you realize, it's an attack on the practices of some suppliers in one country. There are organic alternatives in the states and most other counties don't include these things in their animals.

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Discussing dairy is about as controversial as discussing religion or politics or the Great Pumpkin.
"Humor is the great thing, the saving thing. The minute it crops up, all our irritations and resentments slip away and a sunny spirit takes their place."

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#29 Illegal Life

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 11:22 PM

Well I drink milk for the protein pretty much..
I cant wait till the day when I never have to visit this site again.

#30 Melchior

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Posted 10 March 2005 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE(Illegal Life @ Mar 10 2005, 11:22 PM)
Well I drink milk for the protein pretty much..

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Maybe soy milk would be better? Also high in protein.

#31 Illegal Life

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Posted 12 March 2005 - 12:11 AM

QUOTE(Melchior @ Mar 11 2005, 05:47 AM)
Maybe soy milk would be better?  Also high in protein.

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Only thing about soy in general is I heard it has bad effects on males, which I am ;o. It raises estrogen levels and males can also develop breasts which wouldnt be a good thing lol.
I cant wait till the day when I never have to visit this site again.

#32 Exodus78

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Posted 12 March 2005 - 09:25 AM

Alot milk and meat is bad because of all the hormone injections and anti-biotics they give these animals. I the long run they will only cause you more harm than good.
"We're All Afraid Of The Dark Inside Ourselves"