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#21 adultAcne

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Posted 04 March 2005 - 09:13 PM

[Pasted from another "Milk Thistle" thread; seem appropriate here.]

Hey people. I started the milk thistle a few days ago, but after reading about it and realizing that it's for liver health, I figured I'd just take a liver "tonic" which is a bunch of herbs that cleanse and repair the liver and all work in different ways to cleanse and repair.

So, I got this:

http://vitaminlady.c...etracleanse.asp

for my initial cleanse. After I'm done with it, I'll take a week off and then do some of this:

http://www.michaelsh...ducts.asp?id=26 (except, I got a newer version which has a higher dosage of the herbs and lists their dosages on the label)

They've both got milk thistle in them, but also the other popular liver cleansing herbs burdock and dandelion root, and yellow dock.

The first one seems to be more of a stronger cleanse formula and the second seems like a milder maintenance formula. NOTE: these don't do that liver flush... that extreem flush thang that is talked about in other threads where you drink a bunch of nasty stuff and poop out rocks.

I'll let yall know how it goes.

BTW, I've got stubborn deep cystic acne which has always been perfectly under control with B5, but now that I'm working out a lot and eating a lot (healthy home-cooked food) and taking herbs to up my male hormones (to gain muscle), I seem to not be able to get my cystic acne under control like I used to. I was reading how the liver is supposed to removed old used hormones and so I'm thinking that that's the problem right now... that is, it's not removing the excess testosterone.

#22 cjb

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Posted 04 March 2005 - 09:15 PM

never mind

#23 g24

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 08:53 AM

I'm pretty clear again now. 3/4 days off Burdock.. If I start using it again, how long must I stay on it before the headache an "acne explosion" goes away?

#24 SteveLewis

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 11:07 AM

You guys should look into Herb Pharms burdock sarsaparilla compound. It's an extract which means it's in liquid form with the herb extracts being in some grain alcohol. You just add some to your water or tea(I add it to Yogi Detox tea for an extra oomph). It contains a lot of anti-acne herbs in one including burdock seed(I read that the seed is better for acne as it contains more essential oils and is a better blood purifier), nestle seed, sarsaparilla root, yellow dock root, spilanthes flowering herb, and sassafras root bark. It costs, I think, $10.99 for a fluid ounce. It's a great product. Use it alongside the yogi detox tea for even more benefits as the tea contains dandelion which works well with the other ingredients.

#25 Wickeh

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 11:50 AM

SteveLewis, I'm drinking the Detox tea and it seems to really help so far, I haven't had any new zits since I started drinking it 4 days ago. So I believe there's already enough in the Detox tea to help.

#26 SteveLewis

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 11:53 AM

QUOTE(Wickeh @ Mar 5 2005, 10:50 AM)
SteveLewis, I'm drinking the Detox tea and it seems to really help so far, I haven't had any new zits since I started drinking it 4 days ago. So I believe there's already enough in the Detox tea to help.

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Yea, the Detox tea itself is really good too. How much are you drinking? I drink 2-3 cups daily and it seems to be helping my overall well-being as well as skin healing.

#27 cjb

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 11:56 AM

QUOTE(SteveLewis @ Mar 5 2005, 10:07 AM)
You guys should look into Herb Pharms burdock sarsaparilla compound. It's an extract which means it's in liquid form with the herb extracts being in some grain alcohol. You just add some to your water or tea(I add it to Yogi Detox tea for an extra oomph). It contains a lot of anti-acne herbs in one including burdock seed(I read that the seed is better for acne as it contains more essential oils and is a better blood purifier), nestle seed, sarsaparilla root, yellow dock root, spilanthes flowering herb, and sassafras root bark. It costs, I think, $10.99 for a fluid ounce. It's a great product. Use it alongside the yogi detox tea for even more benefits as the tea contains dandelion which works well with the other ingredients.

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I have that exact one too Steve. I've also read that since the liver processes alcohol, "liver" herbs in tincture form are readily available to the liver, while teas are good for the kidneys. Don't know it that's true, but it would make sense.

#28 Wickeh

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 01:03 PM

I just drink a cup and then reuse the bag once. Next day I use a new bag and reuse is that same day again, etc... The extract looks really nice but I have no money for it atm... Sucks when your parents dont help and you have to pay everything yourself.

#29 adultAcne

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 03:20 PM

I have Dr. Cabot's book, The Liver Cleansing Diet, and she doesn't like tinctures because of the alcohol content. Besides, I always thought that alcohol was bad on the liver??!! I know it's just a little, but for cleansing the liver, it's kinda funny. Anyway, she prefers dried herbs. <shrug>

HEY! I always wondered Steve. How do you compare herb potencies for dried herbs vs. tinctures??? I have yet to see a tincture bottle say how much in milligrams of an herb it has. I don't understand that. Maybe I didn't look longer enough.

#30 SteveLewis

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 03:25 PM

QUOTE(adultAcne @ Mar 5 2005, 02:20 PM)
I have Dr. Cabot's book, The Liver Cleansing Diet, and she doesn't like tinctures because of the alcohol content.  Besides, I always thought that alcohol was bad on the liver??!!  I know it's just a little, but for cleansing the liver, it's kinda funny.  Anyway, she prefers dried herbs. <shrug>

HEY!  I always wondered Steve.  How do you compare herb potencies for dried herbs vs. tinctures???  I have yet to see a tincture bottle say how much in milligrams of an herb it has.  I don't understand that.  Maybe I didn't look longer enough.

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I wouldn't worry about the alchohol content. It's very small PLUS alcohol is actually beneficial in some forms at times as long as you don't abuse it. Many europeans live very long lives with alcohol being used often.

Also, as far as I know tinctures are better than dried herbs or ones in capsule form.

Here's a good article about tinctures, I bolded the parts that compare tinctures to capsulated herbs for you. Hope it helps.

Herbal Tinctures - Potent and Effective

Kami McBride, C.M.T., Herbal Consultant

Tinctures are also called herbal extracts or liquid herbal extracts. They are an herbal preparation that involves extracting the properties of herbs into a concentrated liquid form. This extraction method varies depending on the particular herb used. The most common tincture is one where medicinal herbs are extracted into a combination of grain alcohol and water. Some tinctures contain a single herb such as the ever-popular Echinacea tincture. Other tinctures contain a combination of herbs and are usually labeled with a name that represents the possible benefits of that combination of herbs. An example of this would be a tincture called Stress-Ease that contains relaxing herbs such as skullcap, St. John's wort, and oatstraw. Tinctures usually come in one or two ounce brown bottles with a glass dropper lid. Herbal medicines break down more rapidly when exposed to light so the brown glass helps maintain the quality of your tincture. It is important to store your tinctures out of direct light. It is also a good idea to keep your tinctures out of extreme temperatures such as keeping it in your car when it is 100 degrees outside.

Why use tinctures?

There are many ways to take herbs. Each method of herbal preparation has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of taking herbs in a tincture form is that they are easily absorbed into your system and they are easy to take. Tinctures come in small bottles that are convenient for carrying with you wherever you go and since the alcohol has preserved the extract you don't have to do anything to prepare your dosage except count out the drops. Tinctures are very stable; they do not need refrigeration and can hold their potency for three years or longer. Tinctures are concentrated herbal medicines and are very useful in situations where you want to get a strong dose of herbs into your system such as during times of colds, coughs, etc.

How do I take a tincture?

Most tinctures have a suggested dosage written on the label. This dosage is usually a guideline for a 150-pound person. Adjust your dosage according to your weight. One dropperful equals 30 drops. If you are still confused about how much to take, buy three herb books and look up the range of dosage referred to in these books. Again these dosages will generally be for a 150-pound person so think about your weight and begin taking an amount that is on the low end of what the books say for that particular herb. You can drop the recommended dose into ¼ cup of water, juice, or tea and drink it. Many tinctures are very strong tasting and some people find the flavor bitter or unpleasant. In this case it helps to just put it in a little bit of water, guzzle it down and have another glass of water nearby to get rid of the taste. Most herbal tinctures contain alcohol. If you are concerned about the alcohol content, you can remove a good portion of it by putting the recommended dosage in ¼ cup of recently boiled water and let it sit for five minutes. Once you remove some of the alcohol content with this method there is nothing to continue to preserve the herbs so it is important to take that dosage right away.

Tinctures vs. capsules?

For maximum therapeutic benefit from herbs it is important that they break down in your system. If a person has difficulty with their digestion, herbs in capsules and tablets may be difficult to digest and assimilate. The problem with taking herbs in capsule form is that first the herb must be powdered before being put into a capsule. Once an herb is ground into a powder it quickly begins losing its properties. Some herbs have a very short shelf life once they are powdered. If you want to take herbs in capsule form, I recommend buying the herbs in as whole of a form as possible, powder them yourself, and then put them into a capsule so you know how long the herbs have been powdered. Personally, I much prefer taking herbs in tincture form rather than in capsule form. I have heard many students and clients over the years talk of how they took an herb in capsule form and that the herb did not work for them and then they took it in tincture form and had good results.

Making your own tinctures can be simple. Come learn how to make an herbal tincture at the Herbs for Winter Health class on Wednesday, November 8th. Students will take home a tincture that we make together specifically for helping with winter colds.

*****

Kami has taught classes in Herbal Medicine and Women's Health since 1988. If you have any herbal questions or would like a schedule of her classes, she can be contacted at: (707)446-1290 or www.livingawareness.com.


#31 SteveLewis

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 03:27 PM

QUOTE(adultAcne @ Mar 5 2005, 02:20 PM)
I have Dr. Cabot's book, The Liver Cleansing Diet, and she doesn't like tinctures because of the alcohol content.  Besides, I always thought that alcohol was bad on the liver??!!  I know it's just a little, but for cleansing the liver, it's kinda funny.  Anyway, she prefers dried herbs. <shrug>

HEY!  I always wondered Steve.  How do you compare herb potencies for dried herbs vs. tinctures???  I have yet to see a tincture bottle say how much in milligrams of an herb it has.  I don't understand that.  Maybe I didn't look longer enough.

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Also, here's some info on comparing potencies of tinctures and the dried stuff.

Strengths of Extracts

The potencies, or strengths, of herbal extracts are generally expressed in one of two ways. If they contain known active principles, their strengths are commonly expressed in terms of the content of these active principles. Otherwise, the strength is expressed in terms of their concentration. For example, tinctures are typically made at a 1:5 concentration. This means that one part of the herb (in grams) is soaked in five parts liquid (in milliliters of volume). This means that there is five times the amount of solvent (alcohol/water) in a tincture as there is herbal material.

A 4:1 concentration, on the other hand, means that one (1) part of the extract is equivalent to, or derived from, four (4) parts of the crude herb. This is the typical concentration of a solid extract. One gram of a 4:1 extract is concentrated from four grams of the crude herb.

Since a tincture is typically a 1:10 or 1:5 concentration, while a fluid extract is usually a 1:1 concentration, a fluid extract is typically at least four (4) times as potent when compared to an equal amount of tincture, and a solid extract is usually forty (40) times as potent when compared to an equal amount of tincture.

Typically, one gram of a 4:1 solid extract is equivalent to 4 ml. of a fluid extract (1/7th of an ounce) and 40 ml. of a tincture (almost 1 ½ ounces). Some solid extracts are concentrated as high as 100:1, meaning that it would take nearly 100 grams of crude herb, or 100 ml. of a fluid extract (approximately 3.5 ounces), or 1,000 ml. of a tincture (almost 1 quart) to provide an equal amount of herbal material in 1 gram of a 100:1 extract.

1 gram of 100:1 extract ~ 100 ml. of fluid extract (approx. 3.5 ounces)

1 gram of 100:1 extract ~ 1,000 ml. of a tincture (approx. 1 quart)

#32 cjb

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Posted 05 March 2005 - 06:41 PM

Some herbs are more solluble in water, and some in alcohol, so tea from dried or fresh herbs or tincture should depend on the herb. I take cramp bark and/or feverfew for menstrual cramps. The cramp bark works better as a tincture and the feverfew works better as a tea. This is just from my own personal experience.

#33 goldengirl

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 06:41 PM

I like to drink milk thistle tea 1-3 x daily.. Is this an adequate way to get this herb into my system? I am looking into the herb tinctures for my sons. I am also concerned about the alcohol content. I will try to put the dosages in the warm water before giving it to them



#34 SteveLewis

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Posted 07 March 2005 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE(goldengirl @ Mar 7 2005, 05:41 PM)
I like to drink milk thistle tea 1-3 x daily.. Is this an adequate way to get this herb into my system? I am looking into the herb tinctures for my sons. I am also concerned about the alcohol content. I will try to put the dosages in the warm water before giving it to them

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The active ingredient in milk thistle is NOT water soluble so you're not really getting any benefits from drinking milk thistle tea.

#35 cjb

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Posted 08 March 2005 - 06:01 PM

QUOTE(goldengirl @ Mar 7 2005, 05:41 PM)
I like to drink milk thistle tea 1-3 x daily.. Is this an adequate way to get this herb into my system? I am looking into the herb tinctures for my sons. I am also concerned about the alcohol content. I will try to put the dosages in the warm water before giving it to them

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The alcohol you get from tincture is really minimal. You will probably want to put it in water anyway though just to make it palatable. And Steve is right, a tincture of milk thistle is better.