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The Holy Grail of Acne?

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#1 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 03:35 AM

Okay, so as I meantioned in another post, scientists are now studying the effects of DHT blockers. Now if you were here last summer, Sweetjade and another guy posted a long thread about DHT, 5-AR blockers, etc... and I just want to add on some affordable produts that do this.

Okay so there is a substance that completely blocks DHT, not just a little bit but fully. This is called Equol and scientists are calling it the holy grail of prostate cancer and hair loss. Now Equol as a substance itself isn't sold except for one place, and it's topical for hair loss. Now Equol is made from the isoflvaone daidzein, which is commonly found in soy. Now soy has it's problems such as leaching the body of calcium, zinc, copper, etc... and other problems I won't get into(Ironically though it's linked to increased bone density). So to avoid the pitfalls of soy but the benefits of it you can get soy Isoflavones in capsule form for the cost of any other vitamin(Read: It's not expensive). Soy has two main isoflavones, daidzein and genestein. Daidzein blocks DHT and the other inhibits 5-AR and 17-AR, a double punch.

For those of you who are still not sure about soy, an equally effective(maybe more so) source of equol is Red Clover. It's absorbed just as well as soy, except it can act quicker in some cases because in the tea format, it is directly absorbed into the bloodstream, whereas in pill form, and any soy form, it's processed in the intestines. Now in addition to daidzein and genestein, Red Clover also has two other isoflavones that help, although I'm not sure what they do exactly. Red clover is dirt cheap as well, think 4.00 for 100caps or even cheaper if you get it in bulk as a herb for tea.

Now the great thing about equol is that it doesn't affect testosterone in any way shape or form. It merely prevents it from converting to the harmful DHT. Therefore if you like to bodybuild, nothings stopping your gains.

The only thing is that I don't know how much is needed in mg(that and I don't have acne anymore so I can't test it for acne, although I am going to take it for other great health reasons, mainly prostate cancer is the 2nd biggest reason of male cancer death and I know too many people my dads age with it). I know that megadosing isn't needed becasue equol is so effective at completely blocking DHT. So until equol is produced commercially(It's in the process), maybe someone could try Soy Isoflavones, or preferably Red Clover and report on their findings? Plus Red clover is a blood purifier and is a better antioxidant than E or C.

For those of you that believe androgens and more specifically DHT is the cause this could be your easy way to prevent acne.

Good luck. surprised.gif

#2 Darklord

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:30 AM

WOW! eusa_clap.gif, thanks alot for that info blackbird it is really interesting smile.gif . I have a question though, about the red clover you say that it doesnt effect testosterone it only stops it from converting into DHT, would this be ok to take if you are are 15 without worrying about screwing up anything? Like hormones and that.eusa_think.gif
I would like to give this a go.

One more thing if you decide to have red clover via tea bags, how many would u have to drink daily?

Thanks alot,
Tom
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#3 bryan

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 05:55 AM

Okay so there is a substance that completely blocks DHT, not just a little bit but fully.

I doubt that.

This is called Equol and scientists are calling it the holy grail of prostate cancer and hair loss.

What scientist(s) called it that?? Equol should have similar effects as the well-known 5a-reductase inhibitors finasteride and dutasteride, and I don't think anyone is calling either of them the "holy grail" of hair loss, and certainly not the "holy grail" of prostate cancer.

Now the great thing about equol is that it doesn't affect testosterone in any way shape or form. It merely prevents it from converting to the harmful DHT.

Actually, it will probably INCREASE testosterone a little, just like finasteride and dutasteride.

For those of you that believe androgens and more specifically DHT is the cause this could be your easy way to prevent acne.

You're forgetting the very recent study that I've cited several times, which found no benefit for acne from MK386, a potent 5a-reductase type 1 inhibitor. I wouldn't get too carried away with the prospect of using Equol for acne! If MK386 didn't even help any, it's highly unlikely that Equol is any kind of "holy grail".

Bryan

#4 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 02:09 PM

Windwaker: I have no clue how much to take.

Actually, it doesn't affect testosterone. It doesn't prevent DHT from forming either, that part I was wrong about. It renders it inactive.

Below are links. The first one tells all about it the best, without too much technical talk.
http://www.eurekaler...c-scc032904.php

This one also says that it completely stops DHT
http://www.patienthe.../news/1628.aspx

This link is great too.
http://www.bioone.or...ue=04&page=1188

http://byunews.byu.e...ar-lephart.aspx

http://www.ccjm.org/...s/Gaynor303.pdf

I have dozens of more links if you are still skeptical.

Here's a defenition. It says some people can produce it naturally and some can't. From what I've read only 30% have the necessary bacteria to produce it so maybe most will have to wait until a equol itself is given to the public.
http://www.medterms....rticlekey=32272

Another link summing up a journal article.
http://www.hairloss-...hair_news14.htm


#5 The Jack

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 02:42 PM

I read the first article. Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

#6 bryan

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 03:59 PM

Again, using Equol should actually INCREASE testosterone levels a bit, just like the 5a-reductase inhibitors do (notice in that one cited study that LH levels increased with Equol administration, indicating stimulation of the brain-gonadal axis which regulates testosterone production). There's been some pretty good evidence in recent years that DHT is indeed a player in the feedback regulation of testosterone: you lower DHT (or decrease its effect), and you stimulate a little more testosterone production.

And once again, judging by the lack of effect on acne from 5a-reductase inhibition, don't expect much from Equol.

Bryan

#7 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:34 PM

What do you mean? Inhibiting 5-AR is only one way to stop the effects of DHT. Doesn't matter how you get there, as long as Equol does in fact stop the effects of DHT like it says. I have other articles I will post up in a while. They tell exactly how it works, since you seem to want that.

#8 SweetJade1980

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:15 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Jan 28 2005, 03:34 PM)
What do you mean? Inhibiting 5-AR is only one way to stop the effects of DHT. Doesn't matter how you get there, as long as Equol does in fact stop the effects of DHT like it says. I have other articles I will post up in a while. They tell exactly how it works, since you seem to want that.

View Post



Blackbirdbeatle,
What Bryan is possibly trying to say is that "DHT has no direct affect on acne production". The reason he feels this way, and I'm starting to think the same, is because, DHT inhibitors while they have been in use for what, at least 10 years now (never bothered to check) they have never been prescribed to treat acne. Granted we do still use DHT inhibitors or rather 5AR inhibitors such as Accutane, Retina, etc, but they also serve the function of being anti-androgens as well. Furthermore, due to recent scientific studies and some males' testimonies, using 5AR inhibitors either don't affect their acne or give them acne (even when they never had any). Of course there are other males that have found success using 5-AR inhibitors, but again, these tend to also be anti-androgens such as Zinc + B6 or Saw Palmetto.

I personally am thrilled to hear about equol as I still need it for the hirsutism and possible androgenic alopecia, but no, I do not need a 5AR inhibitor to control my acne. What studies have found is that DHT production is increased in the presence of increased Androgens. I don't have a clue what the exact order is, but due to the presence of androgens a variety of reactions occur either due its presence or the androgens binding to the androgen receptor and therefore DHT may just be another one of those reactions. In fact DHT & 3alpha diol G may indeed be indicators of the amount of androgens, particularly Free Androgens/Testosterone that we produce. Therefore, we can probably gauge wether we are hyperandrogenic or sensitive based on the amounts of DHT (3 alpha diol-G is a better indicator) or PSA (women have this too) found in our blood stream.

Now getting back to what I said about not needing a 5AR inhibitor to control my acne, well it appears that I don't. Myself and others are following diets that while, do help lower or balance our hormones, don't stop our bodies from functioning as it "normally" would. We still produce steriod hormones, only we produce less of certain ones. So while we are probably producing a bit less DHT, as we are producing less steriod hormones, we have be no means stopped it's production. Therefore, as long as we produce enough Free Androgens, some/all (?) of this will be converted into DHT.

My diet has got me 99%+ clear, but I personally still produce enough DHT to continue feeding and spreading my hirsutism, unless I use something to prevent this. Interestingly enough, what I use is Spironolactone (anti-androgen). There's also talk of NAC, Folic Acid, Green Tea, and Zinc + B6, working for women to reduce their hirsutism as well, but again, remember these all serve the function of being anti-androgenic. (some are also 5 AR inhibitors) Therefore, while a 5AR or a DHT inibitors (Eqoul is the only one) would be great to use for males, since antiandrogens seem to wipe your libidos, for females if we can reduce enough of our Free Testosterone, then we can reduce the amount of DHT and subsequent effects of it.

So again, I'm soo thrilled that you posted this information as I've been waiting for more news on Equol. I really don't want to take medications, I would much rather take this as a supplement. Considering that 5AR inhibitors haven't produced favorable or predicatable results, it appears that we are once again left with anti-androgens or anti-inflammatories to treat acne....both of which happen to reside in some of our most popular acne treatments and diets. Currently, my latest quesition is, which of these two is MORE important androgens which call forth inflammatory products or just the inflammatory products. Would we have acne, if we didn't have the inflammation???
These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#9 bryan

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 03:56 AM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Jan 28 2005, 05:34 PM)
What do you mean? Inhibiting 5-AR is only one way to stop the effects of DHT. Doesn't matter how you get there, as long as Equol does in fact stop the effects of DHT like it says.

View Post



What do you mean, what do I mean?? Let's try if for a THIRD time: if lowering DHT by inhibiting 5a-reductase has no effect on acne, what makes you think that blocking DHT with Equol is going to do any good? How many other ways do I have to say it? smile.gif

Bryan

#10 Ravenblack

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 05:42 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Jan 28 2005, 03:34 PM)
What do you mean? Inhibiting 5-AR is only one way to stop the effects of DHT. Doesn't matter how you get there, as long as Equol does in fact stop the effects of DHT like it says. I have other articles I will post up in a while. They tell exactly how it works, since you seem to want that.

View Post



Pay attention to the following line; this is the point that you are missing."The two prerequisites for androgen expression at the level of the pilosebaceous unit are the presence of androgen in the form of either testosterone or dihydrotestosterone; and functioning androgen receptors". Yes, DHT is the extreme expression of testosterone, but, eliminating DHT still leaves you with testosterone which alone potentiates acne, because, in a word, you still have androgen expression on sensitive androgen receptors.

Link: http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=12358558

#11 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 08:12 PM

Ahh, we are on two different pages, that's why I was misunderstanding you. See, I don't believe that testosterone is the main reason for acne, I think it's DHT(Or at least convince myself so). I could be wrong but nobody knows for sure. As long as it prevents the DHT from binding the androgen receptor(Which is does) I'm content with it's ability to prevent prostate cancer. After all, DHT is a cause of so many bad effects people associate with testosterone. Also, just because it binds DHT, doesn't mean it reduces the plasma levels, whso when you do need DHT for the many functions it provides, it's there for your body.

Jade: Nice tree falling in the woods question of acne. Yes, I think we would have acne if we didn't have inflamation, they just wouldn't be red and raised. That is if you still think blocked pores by sebum and skin cells and bacteria thriving in it is acne. If we did get to the point where we didn't get inflammation from acne, I would be worried what other injuries we would have ignored from the lack of the body's natural defences.

I'm acne free but I don't understand why I grew out of it. Here's my thinking. You will always produce oil, and now that I've grown out of it, I still do. I also will still have the infalmmation response and the bacteria there to thrive if I ever get a spot again. This leads me to guess it's the keratinization that all of a sudden went right. But how? How can all of a sudden my cells become too sticky and plug the pores when I had acne, yet now, with nothing really changed, all of a sudden they dissolve in the sebum and are released on the surface of my skin like they are supposed to? How did they all of a sudden normalize? I know things like glycolic and such actually help to normalize it but that is with continued use and I'm at a complete loss as to why my body decided now that things would work right.

Any ideas?(I know that azelic acid, pine bark extract and sulphur all normalize this, along with retaniods in case anyone wants to use it).

#12 Antik

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 05:40 PM

If thats the case then shouldnt Avodart eliminate acne since it inhibits like 90%+ dht ?

#13 bryan

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 07:21 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Jan 29 2005, 09:12 PM)
Also, just because it binds DHT, doesn't mean it reduces the plasma levels, whso when you do need DHT for the many functions it provides, it's there for your body.

View Post



What do you mean by that? If the DHT is blocked from binding to androgen receptors, then it's obviously not "there for your body".

Bryan

#14 bryan

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 07:26 PM

QUOTE(Antik @ Jan 30 2005, 06:40 PM)
If thats the case then shouldnt Avodart eliminate acne since it inhibits like 90%+ dht ?

View Post



Dutasteride (at the standard dose of 0.5 mg/day) inhibits about 98%-99% of the type 2 enzyme, but perhaps only a little more than half of the type 1 enzyme found in sebaceous glands. Since MK386 had no effect on acne in that clinical trial, it seems unlikely that dutasteride (or Equol) would, either...

Bryan

#15 SweetJade1980

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE(Antik @ Jan 30 2005, 04:40 PM)
If thats the case then shouldnt Avodart eliminate acne since it inhibits like 90%+ dht ?

View Post




Avodart eliminates 99% of both Type I and Type II enzymes needed for DHT. Acne is thought to be caused by Type I 5 AR enzymes, but as Bryan pointed out a Type I Inhibitor didn't stop oil production. Avodart doesn't stop acne either. In fact it gave some males that never had acne acne, but did clear some others. There's a member of this board, Evigrex that took Avodart or Finasteride (Type II 5AR inhibitor) and it caused him to breakout and he had been clear previously due to accutane (correct me if I'm wrong). Futhermore someone on absolute acne boards was taking Finasteride for hair loss, but had to stop as it increased his testosterone (as expected since it's not converting into DHT or estrogen) and gave him acne that he's never had before.

Therefore, DHT is possibly not the problem here. Basically we have something kinda the opposite of the "sugar causes acne theory" here. All these years we thought that it was DHT that was the problem and hoped for a pill to solve this problem. Yet it appears that more and more evidence is pointing toward DHT not affecting acne production, where as more and more evidence is pointing toward sugar, insulin rather, affecting androgen and thus acne production. Knowing how important it is to Bryan that we use correct terminology, I'm certain that if there were flaws in these studies, he would be the first to point them out, right?

With that in mind, it's easier to understand why these males are breaking out from taking 5AR inhibitors as it increases your testosterone production (may increase your estrogen slightly). Thus, regarding acne, what decreases one's testosterone production or activity in the body will be direct or indirect anti-androgens, and apparently not 5AR or DHT Inhibitors (unless your goal is to cease alopecia, prostate problems, or hirsutism).

Anyway, below is the abstract being referred to, Bryan can you give us the full text?

QUOTE
J Am Acad Dermatol. 2004 Mar;50(3):443-7

A systemic type I 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor is ineffective in the treatment of acne vulgaris.

Excessive sebum production is a central aspect of the pathophysiology of acne vulgaris. Sebaceous gland function is under androgen control and it is hypothesized that dihydrotestosterone is formed by the action of 5 alpha-reductase. Type I is the controlling isoenzyme. This study describes a 3-month, multicenter, randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial with a potent, selective inhibitor of type I 5 alpha-reductase used alone and in combination with systemic minocycline. Inhibition of type I 5 alpha-reductase was not associated with clinical improvement of acne when used alone and did not enhance the clinical benefit of systemic minocycline. These results indicate the need for further work at the molecular level to better understand the action of androgens on sebaceous gland function. http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=14988688


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):
* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)
* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002
* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)
* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):
* 1/18/08 Ultimate Colon Cleanse (30 day program)

Research:
* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).
* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.

#16 blackbirdbeatle

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 08:24 PM

Byan: It binds DHT from connecting to the androgen receptors by the skin but it doesn't affect plasma levels of DHT since DHT can be used for other physiological functions(stress resistance and neurological strength being two). Some hair loss brands like Propecia actually lower the plasma levels as well as bind the DHT, and soem studies have shown some long term side effects from this.

What everyone is saying is all well and good, but wouldn't you still get acne even if you slowed the sebum production? Granted probably not as much but if keratization is abnormal and since you will always produce some sebum, it would still clog the pores. How is it that all of a sudden, keratization goes right? My face is no less oily than before(It wasn't that oily before either), yet here I am with no acne. If I had normalized keratization I would never have had acne. I probably would have had oily skin as a teenager, but with no acne since the skin cells would have still dissolved correctly. Can someone answer me this?

#17 bryan

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 09:17 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Jan 30 2005, 09:24 PM)
Byan: It binds DHT from connecting to the androgen receptors by the skin but it doesn't affect plasma levels of DHT since DHT can be used for other physiological functions(stress resistance and neurological strength being two). Some hair loss brands like Propecia actually lower the plasma levels as well as bind the DHT, and soem studies have shown some long term side effects from this. 

View Post



Androgens are thought to exert their influence by way of the androgen receptor, so I'm not sure how you think that DHT that's been blocked by Equol would have an effect on stress resistance and "neurological strength". Having said that, I'll admit that there's _some_ evidence that androgens can have an effect on muscle growth that seems to be independent of androgen receptors (anabolic steroid experts know about that), but the exact mechanism involved is still speculative. And I don't know if that even extends to DHT specifically, rather than just the powerful synthetic steroids that bodybuilders use! Therefore, it seems awfully risky to me to assume that Equol-bound DHT is going to be able to maintain its other putative functions, but not exhibit the well-known ones regarding prostate function, skin androgenization effects, etc.

BTW, finasteride (Propecia, Proscar) doesn't bind DHT or androgen receptors. It specifically and irreversibly binds the 5a-reductase type 2 enzyme only.

What everyone is saying is all well and good, but wouldn't you still get acne even if you slowed the sebum production?

I think the proper way to look at it is that sebum production (whether it's low, medium, or high) is a RISK FACTOR for acne. One of several risk factors.

Bryan

#18 adultAcne

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 09:39 PM

QUOTE(blackbirdbeatle @ Jan 28 2005, 02:35 AM)
Okay, so as I meantioned in another post, scientists are now studying the effects of DHT blockers. Now if you were here last summer, Sweetjade and another guy ...


Yeah, I went down that road last year before discovering B5. I took everything that was not be perscription to decrease my male hormones... red clover, Tagamet, saw palmetto, switched from milk to soy, took a herb complex for women that was supposed to boost their estrogen levels and reduce their testosterone levels during menapause (i'm a dude). None of it worked in the slightest.
There is nothing wrong with you.
You do not need improving.
To say that you need improving
is to say that God needs improving. ~ Osho

#19 bryan

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 10:04 PM

QUOTE(SweetJade1980 @ Jan 30 2005, 08:36 PM)
Avodart eliminates 99% of both Type I and Type II enzymes needed for DHT.

View Post



Because I _am_ kind of a stickler for details, I can't let this go by without comment: as I indicated in that previous post above, dutasteride in the standard approved dose of 0.5 mg/day does in fact inhibit the type II enzyme to the tune of 98%-99%, but it inhibits the type I enzyme by only a little over half (dut is considerably more potent against type II than type I, and the type I enzyme is produced in the cell more rapidly than type II). If anyone's interested in seeing the justification for those statements, the relevant data was published in a recent study which exhaustively examined the pharmacological properties of dutasteride. I even scanned several of the graphs from that study and posted them...I'll post the links here, if anyone's interested in seeing them.

Acne is thought to be caused by Type I 5 AR enzymes, but as Bryan pointed out a Type I Inhibitor didn't stop oil production.

Well, here's a very CRUCIAL correction: the study didn't measure sebum production at all! All it did was measure the final effect on acne, and acne wasn't affected one way or the other! I expect that in the near future, they WILL measure sebum production with 5a-reductase inhibition, because they were clearly surprised at the results, just like the rest of us. I'm sure they want to get to the bottom of just exactly what IS the role of DHT in acne!

Avodart doesn't stop acne either. In fact it gave some males that never had acne acne, but did clear some others. There's a member of this board, Evigrex that took Avodart or Finasteride (Type II 5AR inhibitor) and it caused him to breakout and he had been clear previously due to accutane (correct me if I'm wrong). Futhermore someone on absolute acne boards was taking Finasteride for hair loss, but had to stop as it increased his testosterone (as expected since it's not converting into DHT or estrogen) and gave him acne that he's never had before.

I guess it's not all THAT surprising that finasteride could worsen acne a little in some people, because finasteride is just a specific type 2 inhibitor, whereas the 5a-reductase inside sebaceous glands appears to be exclusively type 1. Therefore, I suppose you could argue that the small increase in testosterone that you get from using finasteride (~10% or so) could conceivably function as additional substrate for the type 1 enzyme in sebocytes that obviously isn't inhibited by the finasteride. However, the failure of MK386 (or dutasteride?) to favorably affect acne is still quite puzzling, and there's no obvious explanation...

Anyway, below is the abstract being referred to, Bryan can you give us the full text?

I have a paper-copy of the study right here, but I don't have it in electronic form, unfortunately. But if there's enough general interest in it, I can certainly scan it and post it on my Web site, which I've done with a number of other studies. This one is only about three pages long.

Bryan

#20 blackbirdbeatle

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  • Joined: 26-October 03

Posted 30 January 2005 - 10:20 PM

I know the science is fuzzy at best about hte DHt binding role and bout it being inactive in some areas and not others, buit I'm just going with a trend that I see in journals and in interviews with scientists, specifically in the areas of bodybuilding and hairloss. I also read that while DHt isn't normally important in muscles because it's inhibited by 3 something and its conversion(Sorry maybe one of you guys can say the correct name as I can't remember) and if you were to eliminate that it would cause a massive effect on muscle growth, something surpassing steriods.

Anyway, having read others opinions of DHT and angrogens in general I'm leaning more and more towards the normalization of keratization. Perhaps if there was a way to bring keratin levels down to normal? Like I said above, you will always produce oil in some amounts, so if your skin isn't exfoliating properly, you should theoretically still get acne from a blockage of the pore. Since you cant eliminate the acne bacteria(Although maybe theres a way to become less sensitive to it, or have a less agressive immune response to it), maybe studying keratin is the only way.