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I urge you to get your hormone levels tested

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#1 Shiz

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 09:49 AM

Acne can be caused hormonal imbalances. When you change your diet, you are changing one of the most powerful hormones in your body, insulin. This is why diet works for some people.

Steroidal medications like hydrocortisone (common in skin creams), cortisone, prednisone, birth control, thyroid drugs, and asthma drugs can cause all kinds of hormonal changes. Long-term use of low doses and any use of high doses can cause permanent changes. If you have ever been on any of these kinds of drugs, I strongly urge you to look into the hormone connection.

Some people are born with defects that imbalance their hormones. There are all kinds of diseases like PCOS, Addison's and Cushing's that change hormonal levels. These diseases can cause acne and many people have no idea they have them until they get tested.

Talk to your doctor or an endocrinologist (a doctor specializing in hormones) and get a blood test for a full hormone workup, getting all or your hormone levels tested. If there are imbalances, hormone replacement therapy may be suggested.

BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HORMONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY. The best way to make sure you are getting good advice is to research your doctor and make sure they know what they are talking about. Research what your imbalances are on the internet and pay very careful attention to the credibility of your sources. If you want to be absolutely sure hormone replacement therapy is the right thing, search for an expert, preferably an endocronologist and talk with them. Make sure they've had successful results with past patients similar to yourself.

Yes, this is a lot of work. Yes, it's worth it. Hormones are incredibly powerful and can make all kinds of changes in our body. Even if you are skeptical, I highly recommend getting your hormone levels tested just to make sure. If you don't, you could suffer all your life without knowing the true source of the problem. And if hormones are the problem, some forms of therapy can offer a permanent solution by stimulating your body to start producing the right hormones on its on again.

#2 BenKweller

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 03:54 PM

Most people who have acne don't have hormones disorders unless puberty is a disorder.

#3 Shiz

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Posted 15 December 2004 - 05:33 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Dec 15 2004, 05:54 PM)
Most people who have acne don't have hormones disorders unless puberty is a disorder.

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That would be true, except there are people who are obviously far beyond puberty that still have Acne.

#4 SweetJade1980

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 01:08 AM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Dec 15 2004, 02:54 PM)
Most people who have acne don't have hormones disorders unless puberty is a disorder.

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Wow, I want to support you, but it's ignorant statements like these that make it very hard.

#5 BenKweller

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 04:37 PM

That's nice... please give me your source that backs your implied statement that 51% or more of people with acne have hormone disorders.

#6 Polka

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 06:58 PM

yeh, no offense but we are reaching the stage where we are looking at the obscure reasons and not the main points.

I doubt hormones simply alone is enough of a factor. Acne like a lot of things has MILLIONS OF CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. You can't reduce it down to just 'hormones'. Hormones change all the time.

we are getting paranoid. You are saying we must check for hormone balances or suffer unknowingly for the rest of our lives?

Bah- sory to criticise but its what I think.

#7 SweetJade1980

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 10:53 PM

Obviously, you don't understand how acne is formed then.

Yes supposedly 10% of acne sufferers have hormonal imbalances (how many of that 10% are on this board?). While the other 90% are just "sensitive to normal androgen levels." Yet, that same 90% isn't really just sensitive, their skin androgen receptors actually respond by producing MORE DHT in the skin than normal. As such, that means that most chronic acne sufferers, on some level, have a hormonal imbalance, whether it is purely in the skin or throughout the blood stream.

I will not post anything for you. This is your life, if you are happy with what works (or doesn't work for you) than so be it. Yet, making statements like this is why people get really upset with you Ben. I can forgive the 12 year olds that don't know any better, but you should. You make comments that takes what a poster wrote and shoots it down to nothing. Now some poor kid is sitting here reading this thread wondering, "do I or don't I have a hormonal imbalance? Well Ben says most acne sufferers don't, therefore, that MUST mean me. Thus, I don't either" Now that poor kid could very well end up suffering for 10, 20, or more years before they realize that they did have a hormonal imbalance.

You can do or say whatever you want about anything that you personally KNOW about, but when it comes to this....this IS my life. This is what I LIVED, am still living, and had the doctors spoken up sooner, I would have been a lot better off!

Furthermore, saying that it's just a "hormonal imbalance" doesn't cut it because when one is going through puberty, it's a given, yet if anyone hits puberty before or at the age of 8, they should question as to why.

If anyone has been suffering with SEVERE chronic acne for 5, 10, 20 or more years, they should wonder why.

If they have other signs of a hormonal imbalance (menstrual problems, excess hair growth, hair loss, wieght gain/loss, etc) then they should see a doctor that's known as an endocrinologist .

While it's VERY obvious for most females when we have a hormonal imbalance, it's usually not as obvious for males. For males the most obvious signs of a hormonal imbalance, dealing with androgens, will be chronic acne. So any male that has beens suffering and NOTHING is working to permanently decrease/stop breakouts, maybe you guys should look more into this.

#8 SweetJade1980

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 11:18 PM

QUOTE(polkadots @ Dec 16 2004, 05:58 PM)
yeh, no offense but we are reaching the stage where we are looking at the obscure reasons and not the main points.

I doubt hormones simply alone is enough of a factor. Acne like a lot of things has MILLIONS OF CONTRIBUTING FACTORS. You can't reduce it down to just 'hormones'. Hormones change all the time.

we are getting paranoid. You are saying we must check for hormone balances or suffer unknowingly for the rest of our lives?

Bah- sory to criticise but its what I think.

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The main point? Ever been on Accutane? Well, in case you are wondering accutane isn't just a growth inhibitor but it's also an androgen antagonist. That means that it not only supresses sebaceous gland growth via growth inhibition but also by preventing the production of DHT in the skin.

Acne has just about EVERYTHING to do with hormones. Some, most, are lucky that their's is only temporary, lasting the duration of puberty. Yet others, like myself, are not. While we can also blame the formation of acne on the wrong skin care or clothes detergeant, otherwise, it's almost always hormones.

Yes, I do agree. If you have a hormonal imbalance and you don't do anything about it, it only gets worse. Unfortunately, acne sufferers, CHRONIC acne sufferers, caused by a hormonal imbalance, are at risk for additional health problems, and sometimes even cancer. I don't like it, I was hoping that perhaps this was my only life crisis, but it may not be.... Yet I know my problem, I'm doing what I can to control it, and hopefully it's enough so that I don't end up with additonal problems.

I do what I do, not to scare anyone or make them paranoid but to HELP them. The SOONER you get a proper diagnosis, the sooner you can be treated, and the less symptoms and perhaps additional health problems will result. The longer you wait, the worse it gets and that's why I'm here. To remind people, particularly those that have tried "everything," that maybe it's something much deeper & more serious than just a cosmetic problem (as some clueless people think).

From everything that I've read, and the 1000s of hours of research I've put into this it's ALWAYS caused by something imbalanced, attacking, or irritating your system. It could be an an irritating ingredient, an allergen, a microorganism, or some type of hormonal imbalance, nutrient deficiency, or disease. Yet no matter what, chronic skin problems are always a sign of something wrong...

QUOTE
Endocr Rev. 2000 Aug;21(4):363-92. Related Articles, Links 

 
Role of hormones in pilosebaceous unit development.

Deplewski D, Rosenfield RL.

Department of Medicine and Pediatrics, The University of Chicago Pritzker School of Medicine, Illinois 60637-1470, USA. ddeplews@peds.bsd.uchicago.edu

Androgens are required for sexual hair and sebaceous gland development. However, pilosebaceous unit (PSU) growth and differentiation require the interaction of androgen with numerous other biological factors. The pattern of PSU responsiveness to androgen is determined in the embryo. Hair follicle growth involves close reciprocal epithelial-stromal interactions that recapitulate ontogeny; these interactions are necessary for optimal hair growth in culture. Peroxisome proliferator-activated receptors (PPARs) and retinoids [accutane, retinA] have recently been found to specifically affect sebaceous cell growth and differentiation. Many other hormones such as GH, insulin-like growth factors, insulin, glucocorticoids, estrogen, and thyroid hormone play important roles in PSU growth and development. The biological and endocrinological basis of PSU development and the hormonal treatment of the PSU disorders hirsutism, acne vulgaris, and pattern alopecia are reviewed. Improved understanding of the multiplicity of factors involved in normal PSU growth and differentiation will be necessary to provide optimal treatment approaches for these disorders.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=10950157


QUOTE
J Endocrinol Invest. 2001 Sep;24(8):628-38. Related Articles, Links 


Skin disorders and thyroid diseases.

Niepomniszcze H, Amad RH.

Division of Endocrinology, Hospital de Clinicas Jose de San Martin, University of Buenos Aires, Argentina. hniepom@elsitio.net

Thyroid disorders have a high prevalence in medical practice; they are associated with a wide range of diseases with which they may or may not share etiological factors. One of the organs which best show this wide range of clinical signs is the skin. This review is an attempt to approach most of the dermopathies reflecting several degrees of harmfulness, coming directly or indirectly from thyroid abnormalities, as well as to update current knowledge on the relationship between the thyroid and skin. We have proposed a primary classification of skin disorders, regarding thyroid involvement, into two main groups: 1) dermopathies associated with thyroid abnormalities, mainly with autoimmune thyroid diseases, like melasma, vitiligo, Sjogren's syndrome, alopecia, idiopathic hirsutism, pre-menstrual acne, bullous diseases, connective tissue diseases, hamartoma syndrome, atopy, leprosy and DiGeorge anomaly; and 2) dermopathies depending on the nature of the thyroid disorder, in which the evolution and outcome of the skin disorder depend on the thyroidal treatment in most cases, such as trophism and skin blood flow, myxedema, alopecia, onychodystrophy, hypo- and hyperhidrosis, xanthomas, intraepidermal bullae, carotenodermia, pruritus, flushing, pyodermitis, palmoplantar keratoderma, ecchymosis, etc. In some other cases, the skin disease which developed as a consequence of the thyroid abnormality can remain unaltered despite functional treatment of the thyroid problem, such as pretibial myxedema, thyroid acropachy and some cutaneous manifestations of multiple endocrine neoplasia types 2A and 2B. http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=11686547


QUOTE
Int J Epidemiol. 1993 Dec;22(6):1000-9. Related Articles, Links 


Erratum in:
Int J Epidemiol 1994 Dec;23(6):1330.

The influence of medical conditions associated with hormones on the risk of breast cancer.

Moseson M, Koenig KL, Shore RE, Pasternack BS.

Department of Environmental Medicine, NYU Medical Center, NY 10010-2598.

Medical conditions related to hormonal abnormalities were investigated in a case-control study of breast cancer among women who attended a screening centre. Information was obtained by telephone interview regarding physician-diagnosed medical conditions such as thyroid or liver diseases, diabetes, and hypertension, as well as hirsutism, acne, galactorrhoea, and reproductive, menstrual, and gynaecological factors. Results are presented for 354 cases and 747 controls. Women with fertility problems who never succeeded in becoming pregnant were at significantly increased breast cancer risk (adjusted odds ratio [OR] = 3.5; 95% confidence interval [CI]:1.1-10.9). An elevated cancer risk was also associated with having excess body hair (OR = 1.5; 95% CI:1.0-2.3), or having excess body hair in addition to persistent adult acne (OR = 6.8; 95% CI:1.7-27.1). Recurrent amenorrhea (OR = 3.5; 95% CI:1.1-11.5), and a treated hyperthyroid condition (OR = 2.2; 95% CI:1.1-4.4) were significantly associated with risk. A non-significant elevation of risk was present for endometrial hyperplasia (OR = 1.8; 95% CI: 0.8-4.0). There was a suggestion of an association between a history of galactorrhoea and breast cancer risk (OR = 2.0; 95% CI:0.8-4.9) among premenopausal women. No associations were found with other medical or gynaecological factors. The possibility that some of these findings are due to chance cannot be excluded because of the problem of multiple comparisons.
http://www.ncbi.nlm....st_uids=8144280


QUOTE
Best Pract Res Clin Obstet Gynaecol. 2003 Feb;17(1):131-48. Related Articles, Links 

 
Acne and hirsuties in teenagers.

Barth JH, Clark S.

Department of Clinical Biochemistry and Immunology & Leeds Foundation for Dermatological Research, Leeds Teaching Hospital, NHS Trust, Leeds General Infirmary, Leeds, LS1 3EX, UK. j.h.barth@leeds.ac.uk

Acne and body hair are both cutaneous responses to androgenic stimulation. They are normal events in adolescent girls. There is considerable variation in the evolution of the two conditions. The sebaceous gland is exquisitely sensitive to androgens, and acne appears with the onset of puberty, peaks in prevalence in the teenage years and gradually improves thereafter. Hair growth on the face, trunk and limbs develops more slowly and generally peaks in the 20s.Indications for endocrine investigation include very severe acne, onset of acne and hirsuties in the very early stage of puberty (Tanner stage 3) and systemic virilism.Treatment for acne and hirsuties can be either topical or systemic. The choice of therapy is based on the severity of the disease rather than the results of endocrine investigation. Further, since PCO is related to impaired glucose tolerance, advice relating to lifestyle changes should be offered to prevent the development of diabetes.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12758231


QUOTE
Ann Dermatol Venereol. 1999 Jan;126(1):17-9. Related Articles, Links 


Comment in:
Ann Dermatol Venereol. 1999 Jan;126(1):9-10.
 
[Acne in the male resistant to isotretinoin and responsibility of androgens: 9 cases, therapeutic implications]

[Article in French]

Chaspoux C, Lehucher-Ceyrac D, Morel P, Lefrancq H, Boudou P, Fiet J, Vexiau P.

Service d'Endocrinologie, Hopital Saint-Louis, Paris.

INTRODUCTION: Treatment failures with isotretinoin in female patients are frequently related to endocrinological dysfunctions. Such a concept has never been discussed in male patients. CASE REPORTS: An extensive endocrinological work-up has been performed in nine male patients who presented with an acne refractory to conventional treatment and to isotretinoin. Adrenal dysfunction was found in four patients and isolated 5-alpha reductase hyperactivity in 2 cases. Three work-ups were normal. A suppressive treatment in three patients with adrenal dysfunction provided immediate efficacy. COMMENTS: These results would provide insight into the mechanism of refractory acne in men. http://www.ncbi.nlm....t_uids=10095884

(this is just to show you that men are NOT immune)

#9 Andrei

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 11:32 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Dec 16 2004, 02:37 PM)
That's nice... please give me your source that backs your implied statement that 51% or more of people with acne have hormone disorders.

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user posted image

QUOTE(SweetJade1980 @ Dec 16 2004, 09:18 PM)
The main point?  Ever been on Accutane?  Well, in case you are wondering accutane isn't just a growth inhibitor but it's also an androgen antagonist.  That means that it not only supresses sebaceous gland growth via growth inhibition but also by preventing the production of DHT in the skin. 

Acne has just about EVERYTHING to do with hormones.  Some, most, are lucky that their's is only temporary, lasting the duration of puberty.  Yet others, like myself, are not.  While we can also blame the formation of acne on the wrong skin care or clothes detergeant, otherwise, it's almost always hormones.

Yes, I do agree.  If you have a hormonal imbalance and you don't do anything about it, it only gets worse.  Unfortunately, acne sufferers, CHRONIC acne sufferers,  caused by a hormonal imbalance, are at risk for additional health problems, and sometimes even cancer.  I don't like it, I was hoping that perhaps this was my only life crisis, but it may not be....  Yet I know my problem, I'm doing what I can to control it, and hopefully it's enough so that I don't end up with additonal problems.

I do what I do, not to scare anyone or make them paranoid but to HELP them.  The SOONER you get a proper diagnosis, the sooner you can be treated, and the less symptoms and perhaps additional health problems will result.  The longer you wait, the worse it gets and that's why I'm here.  To remind people, particularly those that have tried "everything," that maybe it's something much deeper & more serious than just a cosmetic problem (as some clueless people think).

From everything that I've read, and the 1000s of hours of research I've put into this it's ALWAYS caused by something imbalanced, attacking, or irritating your system.  It could be an an irritating ingredient, an allergen, a microorganism, or some type of hormonal imbalance, nutrient deficiency, or disease.  Yet no matter what, chronic skin problems are always a sign of something wrong...

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user posted image


#10 BenKweller

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Posted 16 December 2004 - 11:49 PM

While I'm sure that concrete bag of a post was intelligent and meaningful...

I won't argue someone throwing out 3000 articles pertaining to pubic hair development by stating logic because you don't seem to like that; it's much more fun to look into something deeper than it is. From my skimming, all of your beloved case studies take cases of no more than a few hundred and use their results to state a claim. You also don't include the conclusions of such papers which is telling as I've read many a term paper that makes bold statements in the initial bodies, counterarguments, and then a conclusion that could support either. In other words -- you can't take out one piece of a huge paper and claim it is the representation of the whole thing.

When it comes down to it, though, my issue with you (and this topic) is that you seem to make it a goal to scare people into thinking something is drastically and terribly wrong with them because they have acne. I sneezed yesterday-- 3 times! While some may think it's a cold, I think I'll look into how development of mucus in the throat can lead to cases of metabolic shock, hyperglycemia, and Parkinson's disease. It's as simple as that -- let's try to look for things pertaining to the general population; not to the fearful teenagers who visit this forum in search of what candy they can't eat.

#11 SweetJade1980

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 01:09 AM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Dec 16 2004, 10:49 PM)
While I'm sure that concrete bag of a post was intelligent and meaningful...

I won't argue someone throwing out 3000 articles pertaining to pubic hair development by stating logic because you don't seem to like that; it's much more fun to look into something deeper than it is. From my skimming, all of your beloved case studies take cases of no more than a few hundred and use their results to state a claim. You also don't include the conclusions of such papers which is telling as I've read many a term paper that makes bold statements in the initial bodies, counterarguments, and then a conclusion that could support either. In other words -- you can't take out one piece of a huge paper and claim it is the representation of the whole thing.

When it comes down to it, though, my issue with you (and this topic) is that you seem to make it a goal to scare people into thinking something is drastically and terribly wrong with them because they have acne. I sneezed yesterday-- 3 times! While some may think it's a cold, I think I'll look into how development of mucus in the throat can lead to cases of metabolic shock, hyperglycemia, and Parkinson's disease. It's as simple as that -- let's try to look for things pertaining to the general population; not to the fearful teenagers who visit this forum in search of what candy they can't eat.

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By all means, please explain the "logic" behind that statement. You said acne wasn't caused by a hormonal imbalance and I preceeded to provide supporting studies for those interested as to how acne is directly linked to hormones. I further went on to show how these very hormones in an imbalanced state can create ADDITIONAL health problems. No scare tactics only pure concern to HELP as I'm fully aware of how hurt, desperate, depressed, anti-social, and unfortunately suicidal some acne sufferers are, especially after they've been suffering for several years, if not decades.

If passing along the knowledge I have learned on my quest, from doctors & specialists, can help 1 person, I am all for it! Yet it seems that you aren't about helping the one person, but "the masses". Well I'm not one of "the masses," and as such, my goal is to help those that can't seem to find a solution. So, until you are capable of caring about those of us that aren't a part of your special group.... eusa_hand.gif

#12 Doberwoman

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 01:18 AM

Actually, I was diagnosed with a hormone disorder. And taking anti-androgens completely cured my acne. Unfortunately, I had to stop taking them due to unpleasant side effects and the acne came back worse than before (until I went back to the diet I was following pre-anti-androgen therapy, and then my skin cleared again).

My endocrinologist feels that women with moderate to severe acne are very likely to have some form of hormone disorder. I have no idea if he's correct (I think doctors get lots of things wrong), or if this applies to men as well.

#13 bryan

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 02:32 AM

QUOTE(SweetJade1980 @ Dec 16 2004, 11:53 PM)
Yes supposedly 10% of acne sufferers have hormonal imbalances (how many of that 10% are on this board?).  While the other 90% are just "sensitive to normal androgen levels."  Yet, that same 90% isn't really just sensitive, their skin androgen receptors actually respond by producing MORE DHT in the skin than normal.

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Jade, androgen receptors don't produce DHT! eusa_doh.gif They are just...well...RECEPTORS for DHT and other androgens.

BTW, I'm curious to know what you think about that recent study which I've already cited two or three times. That's the one where a potent systemic 5a-reductase type 1 inhibitor was found to be ineffective for acne (the full citation is in the thread I started over in the Research forum). Any comments on that?

Bryan

#14 Polka

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 06:33 AM

Well I totally agree with benkweller. The wya you go about your posts would make a young person totally paranoid, that they have some chronic illness which is probably unlikely.

Here are my points

1)Hormones alone cannot cause acne. There are multiple causes and aggravations

2)Anyone can find a bunch of random obscure stuides on the net, there are always conflicting studies which I guess you didn't bother to include

3) Studies only show a correlation. Because of the slippery nature of acne, no study can EVER make a direct 100% causal link. Until you can make a firm direct establishment or a more convinscing study I won't take much notice.

4)Many people who have 'hormonal imbalances' as you call it don't have acne. So tell me why some of us do get acne because of it?

Okay well there are my points,

good day all

#15 SweetJade1980

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 09:04 AM

QUOTE(polkadots @ Dec 17 2004, 05:33 AM)
Well I totally agree with benkweller. The wya you go about your posts would make a young person totally paranoid, that they have some chronic illness which is probably unlikely.

Here are my points

1)Hormones alone cannot cause acne. There are multiple causes and aggravations

2)Anyone can find a bunch of random obscure stuides on the net, there are always conflicting studies which I guess you didn't bother to include

3) Studies only show a correlation. Because of the slippery nature of acne, no study can EVER make a direct 100% causal link. Until you can make a firm direct establishment or a more convinscing study I won't take much notice.

4)Many people who have 'hormonal imbalances' as you call it  don't have acne. So tell me why some of us do get acne because of it?

Okay well there are my points,

good day all

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Thank you, you are someone I can work with. Feel free to go to Pubmed or some other Journal or Database and find the conflicting studies, there really aren't any. This is common knowledge.

You are correct about showing a corrletion. But to date it is androgens. It doesn't matter if you have an androgen receptor defect/sensitivity, because as long as you aren't producing enough androgens or allowing them to bind to the skin's androgen receptors, you will NOT get chronic acne (unless it was caused by the wrong skin care...something external).

I'm so glad you mentioned the 100% part because this right here is what makes the difference. It's funny how you can say that, but when it applies to your arguments (don't really know yours) or Bens or others, that "nothing is ever 100%" rule just doesn't seem to apply. Science is never exact, it is forever changing and this is why there may have NOT been correlations in the past with certain acne aggrivators or treatments (acne has always been associate with androgens at least since the 1960s), but there are now.

As for why everyone with a hormonal imbalance doesn't get acne, come on....didn't we just go over the "nothing is ever 100%?" If not, common sense should prevail here, obviously there's something about our genetics that favors taking those extra androgens or that androgen sensitivy and displaying it as acne. Others that produce too much androgen hormones can display it as seborrhea, rheumatoid arthritis, obesity, menstrual disorders, hirsuitism, androgenic alopecia or cancer. Sometimes, there are people that display ALL symptoms =( Regardless, the point here is that we are all different, thanks to our genetics. Yet just because "not everyone with a hormonal imbalance or not everyone that eats the same foods" doesn't end up with the same problem (in this case acne), doesn't mean that there is no connection. If doctors and scientists believed that, nothing would ever be put out on the market.

There's plenty of drugs and OTCs that have been released that didn't work 100% for everyone, and what I like to emphasize is that it's best to know your hormonal situation, normal or imbalanced, so that you can pick the most appropriate treatment for your problem. People use BP or take some herb and then get depressed because it doesnt' work. Well, it's proabably because it's NOT the treatment for them. If more people knew their hormonal situation, they could skip the time, money, and energy on using certain treatments, and go straight for what is supposed to help them. Even then, there's no quarantees like both Doberwoman and I found that changing our diets to help balance our hormones, was more effective than taking oral androgen antagonistic drugs! Other people have found that taking drugs was more effective than changing thier diets. =)

I personally don't care what method works for an individual, as my goal isn't to convert anyone to holistic living. I talk about what I know and share the treatment methods that I've come across and it has thankfully helped some people. Men and other women have now tried Spironolactone to help with their acne and they are clear now, when other drugs & topicals didn't work. Spiro a drug that has been in use for acne for the past 20 or 30 years and you would be surprised how many people have never heard of it and how some doctors still won't give this to their patients (female patients at that)! So, I'd say either method one finds that is effective for them is all good to me. My goal is just to help those that have yet to even HEAR about these treatments...something that it appears some members of this board are trying to silence. You should read the posts about women wondering why they've had acne for the past 30 years and had a miscarriage or couldn't concieve and their doctors knew they had a bit of a problem, but never bothered to test them. So of course the miscarriage, while not always linked to a hormonal imbalance, was a big sign of a problem and when they got tested they discovered they had Hypothyroidism or Polycistic Ovarian Syndrome (PCOS)!

That kind of B.S. is what I'm tired of. I don't do anything but help, which is unlike some individuals. I bring the information I know, share it, and the chronic acne sufferers on these boards go to their doctors get tested and usually they are not normal! Did you hear me, they are usually NOT normal. They discover that they have sugar-insulin imbalance, adrenal disorder, pituitary disorder, thyroid disorder, or some tumor that is causing their hyperandrogenism, and thus acne. So I will keep doing what I do, as I know it works. I know it helps and that's all I'm here for. Why wait 30 years before you discover something is truly wrong when you can find out at 15, 18, or 20 years of age (some people find out before they hit puberty). The longer you wait, and if you DO have an imbalance, the worse it gets. While I was fortunate not to get all symptoms, I still know the worst and how it can mess with you psychologically, financially, etc, and I don't want ANYBODY to go through this, when they do not have to.

#16 hauntedmoon

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 10:57 AM

do you know if ortho tri cyclen has anything to do with balancing hormones for women? i know it delivers the hormone progestin and estrogen. some people say that they cleared up just by going on the pill, and my face seemed to get even worse, but that could be my imagination.

#17 Polka

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 11:25 AM

haha, thats a cool doggy drawing!

Well sweetjade, I see what you're getting at now. I was more critical of he original post for the same reasons benkweller mentioned.

I could come up with some counterarguments gaain but I'm tired. The info you give is interesting and I'm sure many wil benefit from it.

Ciao

#18 SweetJade1980

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 03:02 PM

QUOTE(polkadots @ Dec 17 2004, 10:25 AM)
haha, thats a cool doggy drawing!

Well sweetjade, I see what you're getting at now. I was more critical of he original post for the same reasons benkweller mentioned.

I could come up with some counterarguments gaain but I'm tired. The info you give is interesting and I'm sure many wil benefit from it.

Ciao

View Post



Well thank you. I truly hope you do understand what I'm getting at. I'm glad for people like Ben, BUT when it comes down to making assumptions, this is where we conflict. "Oh it can't be that bad." "That will be too hard." "I won't be able to have any fun." "You'll just end up feeling guilty" etc are what people say on these boards to convince themselves or others that some treatment "just isn't worth it". The fact is, you don't know me, I don't know you, yet some people around here love to make such assumptions about the way we think and feel. No one knows how serious one's problem is, until they go and get a proper diagnosis, yet how many regimens are some quick to squash? It's just wrong. Caring about the safety and welfare of an individual is great, but denying them a piece of information that, may not make sense to you, but could positively change their lives, is just as wrong.

Knowing what I know, one could very well discount the one thing that could have helped that individual, and now because one assumed that it wasn't possible, and that person chooses believe that it isn't, they may now be doomed to suffer even longer. =/ I know, I've been there. Doctors ignored my signs and they were more than "just acne". I've had acne since the age of 10, but ever since I was 12 I've been looking for answers and it took several regular doctors and several endocrinologists (3rd times the charm) before I got a proper diagnosis 3 1/2 years ago! The lack of education & being up-to-date on the latest findings in journals (endocrinological, metabolic, etc) isn't only a problem on these boards but its a problem with regular doctors and even some specialists. Just because one doesn't fit all or any of the classic symptoms (I don't) it doesn't mean you don't have a health/hormonal problem...but I truly hope that no one does.

For the record, I NEVER straight up tell anyone what they may or may not have. I wouldn't do that to them psychologically or emotionally. Instead I ask them how long they've had acne, what they've tried in the past, whether any of their family members have any health/hormonal issues, whether they have other health problems or symptoms, etc. Then if they say something that raises a flag, or several, I suggest that they should see an appropriate specialist. At the age of 12 I would have LOVED to have found a place like this, with information crucial to me, that I could have gone to to get such answers, but that place didn't exist. Now it does and it's great to see many others contributing with their knowledge and experiences =)

Take care

#19 SweetJade1980

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 03:11 PM

QUOTE(frogsoblivious04 @ Dec 17 2004, 09:57 AM)
do you know if ortho tri cyclen has anything to do with balancing hormones for women? i know it delivers the hormone progestin and estrogen. some people say that they cleared up just by going on the pill, and my face seemed to get even worse, but that could be my imagination.

View Post



Yes. Although I've read that some BC contain testosterone, which is the last thing you want when trying to treat acne. Some, or most, progesterones are actually androgenic, and so this could also be the problem. I believe it's Yasmin that has an anti-androgenic progestin, but most others use some other type. Therefore depending on the type of progestin & the amount, this may explain why it caused you to breakout. On the other hand, progesterone works wonders for certain people, it really comes down to one's hormonal status. It could also be the delivery of your BC pills monophasic vs. triphasic. There's several possibilites here, but to address further why BC is given to women to help with acne, its usually for the estrogen.

I was given Tri-Levelen, but it only cleared me by 50%. The way estrogen works is that it increases our Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), which has a higher affinity for binding Free Testosterone. This is something that I can further elaborate on as this is actually the amount that it reduced my Free Testosterone levels after 3 months! It cut my levels from a 10 (average for males) to a 5 (still too high for females). If you have a breakout cycle, this may also explain why it seems like your skin is getting worse. While BC was helpful to me, it obviously wasn't my answer, nor did it stop my breakout cycle. I would still breakout WORSE 9 months out of the a year =(

Those are some possibilities. Perhaps you may want to try a different BC pill as there are mixed reviews with Ortho.

Best wishes



#20 BenKweller

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Posted 17 December 2004 - 04:18 PM

"Most people who have acne don't have hormones disorders unless puberty is a disorder."

That's my quote. I never said people don't have hormone imbalances -- there IS a difference, if you didn't know. Hormone imbalances are quite normal in different stages of life and one could argue the disorder would be if they never happened. Honestly -- my issue isn't, "Oh god, what a dumbass she is," as much as you are posting unrelated and unlinked studies in hopes of creating a big picture. It doesn't work that way. Studies often study one thing, say the good effect of oranges on the kidneys and then another like the bad effect of kidneys on the heart. This doesn't create a link. Associative evidence (like the hormone studies that in one word mention acne as a possible side effect of a disorder) is not evidence. And if you truly believe PubMD or whatever site you mentioned doesn't have conflicting studies, I'd learn to read faster; that's a ludicrous statement.

Again -- I'd still like for you to try creating a counterargument to your own opinion just for fun; maybe you'd find that the studies you cite really aren't all that convincing. I'm not here in this case looking for the ultimate answer of hormones and acne (they never affected mine too much)-- I simply am picking apart your argument as it is based on shakey ground.