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blackbirdbeatle

What Ben is trying to tell you...

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SweetJade, for another "unexpected" result -- a few years ago when I first stopped taking antiandrogens, I got a rash of acne and started rubbing EPO into it -- I'd read somewhere that people with acne tend to have lower levels of GLA in their sebum, and since EPO is high in GLA I thought it was worth a go. The label on the bottle said that it was used "to promote healthy skin", so I thought that was a good sign. What I didn't realise at the time is that some people believe that EPO helps to regulate your menstrual cycle -- so I wasn't expecting any change there at all. And yet, several months later (and still applying EPO to my skin), I realised that I was bang on schedule -- I never had been before in my life (and was in my mid-30s by then). It may just be coincidence, but I don't believe it can be attributed to a placebo effect, as I had no idea that EPO was considered anything to do with hormone regulation.

As for laser -- a bit OT, but have you had any info on it? I think you asked me about it when I'd just started it. It's working really well for me. Apparently it works best if you have coarse and very dark/black hair and very light skin (my skin isn't that light, but my hair is nearly black and the combination seems to be good enough for me to get the desired effect). I've had the back of my neck and face done, and the difference is amazing. It takes a few repeats (because not all of your hair is in the right stage of growth at any given time for the laser to be effective) but after 2x on my face and 3x on my neck, hair reduction so far appears to be about 80% on my face and 75% on my neck. the worst thing about it (from my POV) is that you can't use any hair removal method except for shaving for 6 weeks prior to treatment. I felt so self-conscious shaving twice a day and still having 5 o'clock shadow -- but after the first treatment, the hair was reduced enough so that the 5 o'clock shadow wasn't a problem anymore. If you can afford it and have the right complexion/hair combination, I'd definitely recommend it. But you need to be careful about what kind of laser you use -- apparently some places call their service laser hair removal but use something called "pulsed light" instead, which I'm told isn't as effective. I go to a place called "Lasercare" and it is staffed with nurses and a consultant dermatologist, so I felt more confident of them than going to a beauty parlour to have it done... (no idea if the same company exists in the US -- there may be some place with the same name, but it probably wouldn't be the same company as the UK is linked with the NHS in some sort of private finance initiative)

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I agree with you that if you had absolutely no intention of clearing your acne(concious or subconcious), than it's not a placebo. How could it be? Anyway, what I'm saying is that we do have things hidden in our subconcious that guide our beliefs and actions in ways we aren't aware of. As I said before, you could listen to the acne free tape and it could say better memory on the cover. When you listen to it though you would still get hte subconcious belief that you see clear skin and that you're clear and acne is no longer a worry for you and it will show, even if you thought you were getting a better memory(and if you did get a better memory, then THAT would be a placebo).

I also agree that diet does play a role in healthy life, and I eat accordingly. However I don't believe that pasta, cheeses, whole grain breads are bad for you lke some here. Just look at the cultures that live the longest and are the healthiest. They all eat diets high in the foods that many here condem. Even the Japanese, who eat tons of iodine foods and white rice don't have more acne than us and live longer. Yes they didn't always eat white rice, BUT even with the addition of it they still live longer and healthier than us.

That being said I think that many things work for acne. BP, SA, BHA, AHA, prescriptions, natural topicals that do the same thing as the OTC ones like ACV, lemon, baking soda, etc...... However these are on an ongoing basis and don't reach the root of the problem(except if you're lucky enough to get clear on 1 round of accutane with no bad effects).

Acne is hormonal and no one is ever going to convince me otherwise. Everything that happens to create a pimple is rooted in hormones. If it is an allergy than that "pimple" isn't really a pimple in the sense that we know it. It's more of a boil or something in reaction to a food. I think some foods play a role because they affect the hormones either by restricting formation of undesirable byproducts of certain hormones, or they just regulate them better.

I also think that the mind is the best way to control these hormones. Maybe the guy in the testimonial's diet really did work BUT the tape offered him an easier and more powerful way to eliminate his acne. Pretty soon with these tapes(I know from experience) the beliefs will be ingrained in your mind and you won't need the tapes anymore. It allowed him to enjoy the occasional treat such as ice cream without breaking out. He can have a beer or eat some cake an not get a zit anymore and that's why I posted this link, becuase it can give you freedom that you really deserve. You won't live longer just becasue the other guy eats junk food every once in a while but othwise lives a healthy life. It's been shown in many cultures.

Perhaps I shouldn't have said it was about placebos because that's not always the case(although it does happen in the subconcious more often than you think).

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Deja: As I've stated on many occasions, acne is a puzzle. Colon cleansing may only address one part of your acne dilemma. I had to attack three different things when trying to get clear. I had to get colonics (I've done "colon cleansing/fasts/detoxes for years), I had to liverflush, and I had to get the source of my out-of-control candida problem, and that was, I had to remove silver mercury fillings. Mercury leaks and causes candida issues for many people. Candida causes acne. There can be more than one particular health issue. That's why it pays to do your research and do what feels right to you. When I liverflushed, it literally cured me of severe chemical allergies. I used to walk into a craft store and pass out from the plastics, or when I was pumping gas my eyes would burn like someone was putting a hot poker in my eye. My eyes would burn like crazy until I left the offending chemical. I also had symptoms of multiple schlerosis on 2 occasions in my thirties. I have been tested and have high levels of mercury and pcb's. Both of these heavy metals/chemicals cause candida, immune suppression, etc.......the liver cannot detox heavy metals properly if it is clogged and not working properly.

So what I am saying is that I had to fight three areas tenaciously before I became clear and stayed clear (like SJ I get a few zits here and there, but nothing big). And....my skin problems were definitely tied to other health problems I had.

I tried the following in the past to get clear:

1. antibiotics

2. fasts/detoxes

3. microderm

4. blood cleansing herbs

5. msm

6. retin a and other topicals

7. various/special diets

8. birth control pills

9. saw palmetto herb

10. essential fatty acids

11. milk thistle

12. artichoke extract

13. 35% tca peel

14. v-beam laser treatments

15. vitamin b-6

None of these worked, and by the time I started liverflushing, my whole body was literally shutting down. I was having allergic reactions to everything I ate, and my thyroid gland was very swollen. It was terrible. All I could do was sit around thinking: Ok....if everything I eat makes me break out, and if everything I eat makes my thyroid gland go bezerk, then what the heck is gonna happen? Am I supposed to starve to death or what? It was a very hard time because I just simply didn't understand that my liver was severely congested. I had tried milk thistle, artichoke extract, and swedish bitters too, but they all seemed to break me out, not help my acne. I know now that the herbs in swedish bitters are pro-estrogenic, and that milk thistle and artichoke extract were helping to detox me, but at a rate that my body couldn't handle.

I have none of these problems anymore. I understand the ROOT cause of my acne, as well as my other health problems as well, and I am in very good health. Doctors just couldn't help me because they are trained to treat illnesses with prescription drugs, not address root causes. That is just simply how they are trained.

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While I try to comprehend the mound of talk people have posted, let's restate 2 facts:

1) You don't need to hold out a religious faith belief in something for it to have an amazing effect because of the placebo effect. You don't need to sit and think, "This food will cure acne!" for it do it.

2) People usually believe in holistic welfare of their body -- so if you are treating a problem with, let's say, you're gastro. system and you feel better, your acne may improve. Not because of your system causing the acne but simply because of you feeling better altogether.

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... That was fun.

Anyway--

BBB made some good points but some that are just false and that brain scientists have disputed and proven: "I agree with you that if you had absolutely no intention of clearing your acne(concious or subconcious), than it's not a placebo. How could it be? It very well could be -- the placebo effect is often very subconcious; I could go in and have a tooth that was bothering me worked on and improve other unrelated body systems because of my mind. When something is bothering you and your neurochemistry is out of whack as a result, many things go wrong.

"Insisting that those of us who literally tried everything under the sun could just placebo effect our acne away is a ridiculous assertion."

I see nothing wrong with my assertion. As long as you get better, be happy that you're better; you, of all people, should be happy that all you needed to cure your acne and "health problems" was a good shot of positivity after digesting some oil.

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None of my theories have been disproven. If they were, I wouldn't post them. I'm not saying it's the final answer but there certainly haven't been anything substantial to make them false(and there have been many studies that have tried yet they all reinforce it in the end). There may be something in the future that blows this out of the water and I'm not closed to that idea.

Further, I always said that a placebo can happen consciously or subconciously. I said a placebo effect doesn't happen if one thing happens while thinking about another. Eg. You are focused on losing weight and so you eat broccoli. All of a sudden the broccoli cures your cancer(hypthetical situation). It's not a placebo because you never thought of it as curing cancer either subconciously or conciously, it just proves that broccoli actually cures cancer(again hypothetical).

I also said that many placebo effects happen that you aren't aware of because it's hidden in your subconcious, I'm talking about things not in your mind at any level.

In short a placebo is solely based on a substance that has no real effect, it makes your mind believe it does and your body acts accordingly, like in the first paragraph of one of my responses.

BP, SA, retinol, etc... are not placebos although my theory is that most diets are placebo based. In other words they don't really help, they create that positive reinforcement that it does. Liverflushing, colon cleansing, diet etc... are just my hypothesis that they are placebos. They may actually help but until research is done, the evidence I've come to has proven otherwise.

There is a common saying that if you treat a cold it will last a week but if you leave it alone it will last seven days.

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I understand.

I agree. Acne is usually caused by hormones as androgens are respondible for the production of sebum, and a cascade of additional events that ends in clogged pores & inflammation results. Yet no one that is skeptical on this board will accept that our diets can affect our hormonal balance no matter how many 100s of studies I post here that shows that it can (in a multitude of ways). However, there's already one study in process that specifically says Deit & Acne and is focusing on the Glycemic aspect and we shall see. Funny, most innovative studies involving diet & acne or other health problems aren't done in the U.S.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=15294556 (primary concern is that they only used males instead of comparing males & females and that there seems to be a bit much fat)

Anyway, I absolutely believe that if listening to those tapes can cure acne, then everyone should do it. It's only $30 vs. the $50 for the hypnosis CD and if it means you can be clear AND eat all the food you want again, so be it. My only concern would be for those that may still have an underlying health problem, but since most people don't think about those things until it's too late, I look forward to hearing about how clear those who try this are after 1, 3, 6 months and so forth ;-)


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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My sister is clear and has been since summer on this tape. She's 19 and may have grown out of it but her face cleared in a few weeks and she listened to this CD 1 h each day.

Have you found the free Mp3's? Try listening to them for 1 h each day for one month and see if you notice a difference or if anyone notices on in you.

Check your PM sweetjade.

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Denise2 (and any others who may wonder) -- I can sort of understand why BenKweller sometimes gets rude (although I'm sure Ben you'll disagree with my analysis). Not that I agree with it, and the dogmatic approach of "I haven't had this experience so all the rest of you are dead wrong if you think you have" is particularly wearying-- but I used to be guilty of it myself.

I'll explain: back in the days when I believed that diet had no effect on acne, I had people hounding me not to eat chocolate, to stay away from fried foods, etc. I had tried eliminating one or other of these things, but with no success (I realise now that it was because I was still eating a lot of dairy, which is one of my main dietary triggers). And I had a dermatologist telling me that diet had absolutely no effect on acne. I started to become irritated with people telling me to change my diet when a professional (who'd studied at university for 8 years and spent his entire professional life working with skin disorders) said it didn't matter -- how can they think they know better than the professionals?, I used to think. They don't know anything! And because I really like my junk food, it irritated me no end to have people constantly pointing out a problem that I thought they knew nothing about, telling me to give up something I loved when I "knew" they were wrong. The difference on this board however is that the people who are responding do know something about it, because they have gone through it themselves.

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Doberwoman: Thanks for the reply. I agree with what you are saying. I heard the same exact thing from my dermatologist too. "Food has no effect on acne whatsoever....."

I do agree with you that it is just human nature to agree with the "experts" when it comes to medical issues.

At least people like BBB can disagree without being immature and inflammatory. BK could learn a lot from him.

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"Dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. Carry on."

"Please ignore Ben Kweller. He had a total of 2 zits his whole life "

"Grow up, Ben."

"I'll have your butt dealt with in a hurry."

denise, these are all comments you have made to ben. you guys are about equal in making inflamitory remarks to each other. don't be a hypocrite, please. eusa_naughty.gif

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Yeah, AC, that's exactly in the same category as making fun of people's health problems and calling them idiots and many other names. Oh, and signing in under a different ISP number to post as "flushie", and outright LYING about things I've said, then buckling when pressured to post proof that I "defended" Hulda Clark. Please...a few impatient comments pale in comparison. People have said much worse than me, I would happily remind you. eusa_dance.gifeusa_angel.gif As for the "I will have your butt dealt with in a hurry"....that was said why? Because BK was engaging in personal attacks? Now now.... eusa_naughty.gif don't show bias..... wink.gif

But please keep defending Ben, it's very special. biggrin.gif

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1) I didn't post as flushie. I know you've probably published a book on some elaborate theory about how I went on the internet and spoofed a log in name but I didn't. I've told you time and time again to get Dan to send you the server log reports and you may even find that I was online at the same time as flushy. Regardless -- stop accusing me because it's simply not true.

2) "Yeah, AC, that's exactly in the same category as making fun of people's

health problems and calling them idiots and many other names.

I've never made fun of ANYONE's health problems. I think acne is a serious condition that people should try to fix since it's not something I'd wish on anyone. And for the record, I call no one an idiot unless they call me one first or say something so dumb that it deserves a check on their misstatements.

3) "But please keep defending Ben, it's very special."

You love to complain of how much you're mistreated but then you post something as retarded as that because someone points out that you're just as offensive as I am? That's quite immature; at least I have the insight to see I can be inflammatory.

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I simply have never seen him post anything rude. But you are right Denise..I haven't been around here more than a month or two.

But still..if he isn't being rude now......

wacko.gif


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil


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Acually Ben, when myself, I believe either Ebby or Emma talked about some of our health problems in a thread, which were not acne, you put up this icon: eusa_boohoo.gif

That's outright mocking other people's health problems. I was mentioning my m.s. and other symptoms, as was Ebby or Emma who mentioned have terrible candida just like I did from being on antibiotics for years by dermatologists (don't recall which one it was). You have outright called me ugly, stupid, idiot, etc......I think I've been incredibly patient with you in any event because you are a 23 year old kid who thinks he knows it all. Been there, done that. You twist, lie and misrepresent many people on this forum.

I'm not your victim, BK. If I wanted to "complain" about how you mistreat me or anyone else, I would carve out a specific thread and do it. I'm merely showing my issue with you. I'll say this for the third time. My issue with you isn't that you disagree with anything I say. It's that you act like a know it all even though you never had more than a few zits that were cured with water. JC told you a long time ago to stop answering in threads where people ask questions on topics you have no first hand knowledge of, and yet you continue to do it anyway. You agreed to do it, then never did what you agreed to do. When people ask questions about liverflushing and colon cleansing, you butt into those threads even though you have no knowledge of it, only opinion. That always starts a flame war. And you are the instigater.

Deja: NEWSFLASH!: I'm not the only person to have issues with Ben's posting style. He's made a lot of enemies because of his inflammatory, immature, dogmatic posting style. I am not the only one who gets tired of his immaturity. Think about it. eusa_think.gifidea.gifbiggrin.gif Here's a great page from just one thread that exemplifies what I'm talking about, just in case you don't read any of the other threads around: http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...pic=35398&st=80

My last post on this topic. For now. biggrin.gif

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1) I never called you ugly -- I simply laughed when you said 30 year old men hit on you all the time.

2) "It's that you act like a know it all even though you never had more than a few zits that were cured with water." I know -- you've told me... at least 300 times.

3) "When people ask questions about liverflushing and colon cleansing, you butt into those threads even though you have no knowledge of it, only opinion." Sorry if I don't jump on the bullshit bandwagon. I've actually gotten many PMs with people thanking me for being the skeptic in threads like that so you're out of luck.

4) Link people that don't "hate" me to as many posts as you like -- I don't call anyone an idiot unless they decide that I should be called one for having a different POV or unless they are so immature that they deserve it. A 12 year old coming on and saying, "Oh you're uigly and stupid and have acne! hahahaha" fits into that category of idiots. You backing them up says something, though...

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Actually, I never said that 30 year old men hit on me "all the time". I said that most people think I look much younger than 40, and that I still have men younger than me hitting on me. I never said "all the time". And, I believe that I made that statement to someone (I think it was Rossignel) because you did make a personal swipe at my looks, and Ross said that I didn't look like an old hag in my pictures, or something like that. Please.....stop while you are ahead. You make personal attacks at will, all the time, on this forum. I can't imagine that you have a fan base here on this message board. You cannot logically refute most people's arguments, and you speak in such hyperbolic shrieking half the time, that your exaggerations just become tiresome after a while. So please.......stop trying to act like you are the arbiter of good social skills and quit attempting to justify your inflammatory and immature attitude and statements. Justifying your bad behavior by implying that other people are stupid idiots because you don't agree with them is very typical of your behavior pattern. But thanks for continuing to prove my point, AND justifying your immaturity. And one more thing, I never said people "hated" you. Again....you twist and distort at will. You even put "hate" in quotation marks. I said: I'm not the only person to have issues with Ben's posting style. He's made a lot of enemies because of his inflammatory, immature, dogmatic posting style. I am not the only one who gets tired of his immaturity.

Nowhere is the word "HATE" used in that post. You continue to prove my point, over and over and over. Not liking your posting style is not "hating" you. And back to my main point, that I've made over and over again. The FEW statements I've made in frustration pale in comparison to the immature tripe you've said to me and others on this forum. Absolutely PALE. But I'm happy that AgentCooper et al have taken up your cause. Good for you. You need all the help you can get. Oh yeah...I noticed that you backed down from my comment that you mocked me and others' health problems. What...no comment on that? wink.gifshock.gif

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Deja:  NEWSFLASH!:  I'm not the only person to have issues with Ben's posting style.  He's made a lot of enemies because of his inflammatory, immature, dogmatic posting style.  I am not the only one who gets tired of his immaturity.  Think about it. eusa_think.gif  idea.gif  biggrin.gif  Here's a great page from just one thread that exemplifies what I'm talking about, just in case you don't read any of the other threads around:  http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php...pic=35398&st=80

My last post on this topic.  For now. biggrin.gif


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil


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Um..NEWSFLASH!  I read that entire thread.

I saw a few other people in there being MORE rude than he ever was. In fact, I wouldnt consider anything he said rude at all.

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No thank you for using canola(Some friends and family grow the stuff). wink.gif

Nader was cool back when he was the safety king. Now he's just a little crazy and goofy. Good for a laugh though. I won't say who on this board that reminds me of but it's pretty easy to figure out. ninja.gif

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