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blackbirdbeatle

What Ben is trying to tell you...

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OKay so I know a lot of you hate Ben because he always disagrees with everything you say but with the Placebo effect I don't think this is a cop out. You mind is very powerful and can do things that you would normally give credit to others for, EG. Diet and acne. I love this program called inntertalk. Along with binaural beats and the mind accelerator, it's changed my life rapidly and for the better. Anyway I get this newsletter by the company and it's filled with peer reviews from independant journals, doctors, and praise from users,etc..... The people who give the testimonials have their full contact info listed but for the sake of anonymity I'll only use their full names, no contact info. Here's something that promotes the placebo effect on diet:

"The first CD I purchased from you was "Clear-Skin." At the time of purchasing the CD from you I had clear skin, because I had developed a special diet afte years of research which cleared skin... I kind of bought the CD for a laugh. I didn't believe anything would destroy acne other than my "special diet" that had already proven itself to deliver the goods.

To my shock & horror, the CD is more powerful than my diet... and it turns out my diet only works if you believe it does.... can you imagine?

Put it this way, in my food philosophy there are foods that will definitely cause acne & foods that won't. This is the test that I did. I started eating all of the "acne-foods" instead of the nons, while using the CD. I did this for months. I was getting so pissed off because I couldn't get the acne no matter how much acne food I ate. I was in a state of shock.

Then, I switched the diet to non-acne food, and tried to visualize acne & that I had it, & I put the CD away. Within 2 weeks I had acne. My special "flawless" diet, consisting of ABSOLUTE PURE RAW FOOD with balanced sugar levels, alkaline/acid balance, HDL proteins only, cold pressed lignans & a special sebumproduction lowering technique also developed by me. To my absolute dismay, the seemingly most perfect diet ever created by anyone in the history of the universe, has been trumped by your bloody CD that hardly anyone even knows about... what is going on? ...

Ok well, at least I've told you your CD kicks ass. Thank Mr. Eldon for me. He's top geezer--if I could give him something of the same value as what he's given me I would--but that would be very difficult.

Alistair Martin"

I bought this CD and never used it because I grew out of acne but gave it to my sister and she hasn't had a spot since. If you are convinced somethign breaks you out and then eat it, your mind will concentrate only on getting acne and you will.

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That's some interesting stuff. But what is the actual content of this CD? I suppose it must sound good since you have to believe for it to work. And if you want to rip me a copy i'd be grateful shock.gifrolleyes.gif.

I have listened to something similar before, though unrelated to acne or skin. I couldn't help this, but as I couldn't absorb the 'message' since I didn't feel like it believed it. How is best to overcome this problem?

The other problem was that I thought maybe I would not see actual physical improvement of the ailment; rather, that by listening to the CD and 'believing' what it tells me, I am just brainwashing myself into thinking it has got better. I suppose actual scientific studies would discount this easily, but the worry is still there in my mind.


"Look at the leaves of forest trees and see how dark green they are.

Think about your skin and the power of the forest."

-MelbourneBloke


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Maybe this is the CD?

http://www.hypnospot.com/clear_skin.php

The skin improvement program includes the following sessions, dealing primarily with the skin on the most sensitive part of our body; our face. However, you can apply these techniques to work on any other part of your body where you have problems.

Session one: "Improve Skin Condition" - A process of helping you in improving your skin condition through renewing your mind. We will program in new thoughts and ideas that will create the ideal functioning of your skin cells and heal any damage or disease completely and perfectly.

Session two: "Facial Cleansing Habits" - Helps you to succeed at properly cleansing your face every day, by building within you a desire and motivation to do so.

Session three: "Skin Rash Relief" - Instant relief from irritations and tenderness caused by skin rash. Your skin will become stronger, healthier, and more comfortable.

Session four: "Face Lift" - Overcome the affects of aging. Lose the wrinkles and even scars or blemishes. Go back in time to capture the youthfulness of your skin and take 10 - 20 years off your face.

Session five: "Breakout Arrest" - Healing pimples. Create flawless and healthy skin. Cause your bodily processes to function perfectly and cleanse the water matter from your body that causes pimples.

Session six: "Itching Relief" - Get rid of all discomfort and the aggravation caused by itching ... Calm your skin and alleviate itching and all symptoms causing the itch from within.

Session seven: "Eliminating Warts" - You can eliminate warts from your body so that they never return again ... Let your powerful mind direct healing energy to easily fade away and ultimately eliminate unsightly warts from your skin.

http://hypnosis.hyptalk.com/pd_clear.cfm


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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innertalk.com

There are about 4 free samples online, which are the same as the full priced ones except shorter so you have to repeat. The technology was on the Discovery Channel and it would take too long to explain(Better than subliminal).

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innertalk.com

There are about 4 free samples online, which are the same as the full priced ones except shorter so you have to repeat. The technology was on the Discovery Channel and it would take too long to explain(Better than subliminal).


"Look at the leaves of forest trees and see how dark green they are.

Think about your skin and the power of the forest."

-MelbourneBloke


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Nah -- I don't buy that. I wasn't expecting the diet to work, and I'd always been a rabid anti-diet person prior to giving it a go. By the time I tried diet, it was more of a "one more thing to cross off my list of things I've tried that don't work" -- I was astounded by how effective changing my diet was in reducing my acne.

On the other hand, I did buy and acne hypnosis tape that I'd had high hopes for, and it did nothing for me (and prior to that I'd tried all sorts of visualisation techniques). I generally believe in the power of mind over matter (when it comes to health), but my faith in this has not been rewarded as far as acne goes.

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No, once you again you misunderstand. My problem with Ben is that he's so disrespectful and nasty. You can disagree and make your point without resorting to calling people names and inferring that they are lobotomized idiots. That's Ben's endgame....call people liars that cure their acne through liverflushing, colon cleansing, diet, etc.....like, why would I lie? Why would other people lie about their success in clearing their acne? That doesn't even make sense.

That's the beef....not the disagreement.....the rhetoric employed is the problem, and I've said so many times.

As for liverflushing, I was more interested in curing things other than acne, but was thrilled when my acne was helped also. I had higher hopes for vitamin b6 and other things, and was unsure if liverflushing would help. Not sure how the "placebo effect" worked for me. Oh well.

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Interesting thread. I think the mind/body connection really needs to be explored a lot more. Acne is such a diverse condition-there are so many causes, however some of them may have a common root cause. It can be hard work to sift through all the information and "cures" to help your acne, which can be very frustrating. I think having an open mind to all treatments, whether it be flushing, topcials, diet, hypnosis, vitamins, etc because you never know which one may help you. Hope that made some sense and had some relevence to this thread... eusa_think.gif


"Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm."

- Abraham Lincoln


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A general question: Do you listen to these while working or surfing the net, etc or while you are sleeping/trying to fall asleep? Do you listen to them for an hour?


"Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm."

- Abraham Lincoln


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It is an interesting theory.

My personal belief is some people cause their acne or at least aggravate it due to stress and obsession. Stress is a very powerful thing with one of the negative side effects been that it causes your body to excrete certain vitamins and minerals which it needs. This can often lead to acne and numerous other health conditions.

I really don't think you can discount the whole diet theory as something which is all in the mind. I went to a island in Fiji a couple of years ago. A proper desert island without western influence. Everything I ate was grown on the island or caught in the sea (apart from the beer I took with me) and at the end of the week the difference acne wise was quite impressive. 4 of my friends who were with me also had a visible benefit. This was something I neither expected or even would have thought of in a million years.

I am looking forward to what Ben has to say about this whole subject. I sit here with my clear skin and my sugar coated pill hoping for the continued placebo effect he speaks of with such passion.

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The free MP3's are on the left hand side. Theres a list of a bunch of links to pages within the site and free Mp3 is one of them. Scroll down to the bottom and there will be about 5 or 6 for free.

This isn't like other subliminal programs for that person who though the other kind didn't help. It doesn't play silently in the background. It's on the threshhold of hearing and they mix suggestions because people react differently. Sometimes it's a male and the message is aggressive and sometimes it's a little girl and the message is encouraging, etc....

I like the sound of hte ocean so I always got the nature CD's. THe music ones are alright but for hte amount of time I listen to it, the music would get repetitive. You can listen to them anytime of hte day, including your sleep(In fact just prior to REM, your brainwaves are such that suggestion gets through to you the best).

Isn't it funny though that when we all go on vacation we get clear? COuld it be because we aren't so damn focused on the acne but on having fun and relaxing? Or maybe it's the ocean water, which clears many up. The whole point of this was that we think a certain food helps acne so much that in the end it's our mind that does it for us whenever we eat that food.

I'm not saying that food doesn't have a connection, I just think the mind plays a bigger role.

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Stress does play a role but I'm not talking about stress(although the CD does calm you). I'm talking about something that you believe so powerfully that it happens physically to you. People can make themselves sick and they can cure themselves if they have enough control over their mind(this is extremely hard, just try to sit still for one minute with your eyes closed and don't let a single thought pass through your head, except the darkness you see).

Further this has been backed up coutless times. It's not proven that it works on acne other than a few experiements and testimonials(which is why I said I only believe this to be true), but it has been proven for dozens of ailments and for reshaping the mind. After all the person you are right now was shaped entirely by what your mind decided to reinforce. You programmed your mind to become the person that you are and you can change every bit of that.

No one knows that diet is related to acne. They believe in it but it's ignorant to say they know with absolute certainty. My post may be the answer but it may just be a coincidence, however you can't rule out that this may be a strong possibility. Our environment and internal situation is what we make of it, and if you believe so much that a certain food will break you out, than it probably will when you eat that. SInce you believe in it so stongly, there are ways to bypass this belief and change it within your subconcious so that you don't believe that anymore. After all, we only notice less than 10% of what's going on, the other 90% gets sent to the subconcious.

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Oh ya in this newsletter he recommneds a book called, The Psychobiology of Gene Expression by Ernest L. Rossi. It may give an explination to do with the principle behind innertalk through gene manipulation. Go check it out at the library for free. It's kind of like how our minds can tap into the DNA and change the expression of genes. I don;t know about you but I was thinking X-Men and I wasn't too far off.

An example of this is how multiple personality people can change their eye colour from say brown to sky blue depending on the person. I imagine possible this could have application to acne but more importantly, aging and disease.

Here's alink for reviews. Again go tot he library and read it for free.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detai...=books&n=507846

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Agreed the whole holiday feeling is a big benefit for your general wellbeing and acne but for me since I had been travelling for 8 months before Fiji it certainly wasn't anything to do with that, it was purely the diet. I had more acne before I went to Fiji, a massive reduction after a week on the island and then once I went to America my acne worsened to its normal level after a few weeks.

I travelled with a group of people and all the ones with acne had big improvements and then breakouts once we got to America.

Ever since then I have been in to diet, supplementation etc with great results.

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"Nah -- I don't buy that. I wasn't expecting the diet to work, and I'd always been a rabid anti-diet person prior to giving it a go. By the time I tried diet, it was more of a "one more thing to cross off my list of things I've tried that don't work"

You don't need to be concious of something for a placebo to work; simple as that.

"No, once you again you misunderstand. My problem with Ben is that he's so disrespectful and nasty. You can disagree and make your point without resorting to calling people names and inferring that they are lobotomized idiots. That's Ben's endgame....call people liars that cure their acne through liverflushing, colon cleansing, diet, etc.....like, why would I lie? Why would other people lie about their success in clearing their acne? That doesn't even make sense."

People with lobotomies don't become idiots, Denise. Please. Anyway -- I call people liars because they make up bullshit science and claim they are high and mighty and can control their bodies any better than a normal person. If someone says, "I don't know how but I did a liverflush and it worked for my acne," I'd say, "Fine, congrats." But when they go on about how clogged we are and how terrible our world is, etc... I realize they deserve a good challenge in explaining themselves.

"As for liverflushing, I was more interested in curing things other than acne, but was thrilled when my acne was helped also. I had higher hopes for vitamin b6 and other things, and was unsure if liverflushing would help. Not sure how the "placebo effect" worked for me. Oh well."

One of my favorite things in your posts, Deni, is to read how amazed you were upon seeing the results. That's how the placebo effect worked for you. You kept doing flushes and kept "Seeing results" until your mind helped. Props.

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Hard to read that Ben, can you use the quote thing as it makes it much easier.

You don't need to be conscious of something for a placebo to work; simple as that.

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One of my favorite things in your posts, Deni, is to read how amazed you were upon seeing the results. That's how the placebo effect worked for you. You kept doing flushes and kept "Seeing results" until your mind helped. Props. 

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^If you dont want him calling you names you should not be calling what he said dumb. redface.gif

(no offense but its always back and forth with you two)

He could very well be right you know. There will almost always be SOME sort of placebo effect, even if you do not think you believe whatever it is will work. The subconcious still is holding out some sort of hope for it or you wouldn't be doint it in the first place. That can be enough to have some type of clearing effect, and then you will only believe it more. Im not saying the physical aspects of whatever you are doing dont have some sort of real effect on the skin as well..but I gurarantee it is at least partly placebo.

Anyways...I totally think the placebo effect is the most powerful treatment.

I know when I stopped worrying about my skin and just accepted myself, it pretty much got better immediately. Not exactly the placebo effect, but I think how we think about our skin mentally will effect it WAY more than unhealthy eating or a liver that needs "flushing"..and I used to be obsessed with colon cleansing and all that..I am not saying those things are neccessarily terrible on occasion (no more than anything else)..but I am more and more coming to believe that relaxing a bit and not worrying is much better treatment.

smile.gif


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil


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Deja....excuse me, but you are rather new to the discussions here. Ben has been immature and inflammatory. I will say this one more time. Having a disagreement on something is fine. People like myself who mentioned that we had other health problems were quite literally mocked and made fun of by Ben in other threads. Fortunately for Ben, Dan has quite a liberal posting policy. Ben would not have lasted on most message boards; not because of a difference of opinion, but because he flames the boards with insults and mockery. He has an anger management problem, obviously.

If you had mild acne and cured it by the power of thinking positive thoughts, good for you. Many of us who tried rounds of Accutane, various other pills, diets, supplements, etc......who could never cure our acne until we found something that made sense and truly worked don't deserve anyone's scorn or ridicule. We are all here trying to help people. Liver flushing isn't harmful to about 99.9999999 percent of the population. It is quite obvious to me now, that all of my health problems were tied together; this included poor skin health.

And until and unless you have moderate to severe acne that wouldn't budge except for a few things like liver flushing and colon cleansing, perhaps you really just don't understand.

Insisting that those of us who literally tried everything under the sun could just placebo effect our acne away is a ridiculous assertion.

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OKay. Apparantly it has just stopped since I have been around.

And no actually I have had pretty severe acne for years now, and have tried pretty much every treatment I could think of (besides maybe accutane)..dermatologists (that I had to pay cash for because I have no insurance)..every kind of cream, facials, working out, water, different diets, colon cleanses, every type of pill, vitamin...

My acne is bad..its not like its just a zit or two.

And like I said. I HAVE done colon cleansing. Helped for maybe a 4 days and then the zits came back as soon as I started eating normally.

Im just saying..if I eat whatever I want now, (and I do) and my skin is clearer now than before..how can it be what I eat?

Im NOT saying it isnt that for you..maybe it is, I dont know. I just think that denying that it IS somewhat placebo effect is silly. WHY does that make you mad? Thats what I dont understand..if it works, who cares?


Current Skin-Care Regimen (A work in progress):

Morning:

Gentle wash with DKR cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil (The lotion alone wasn't hydrating enough)

Skin 79 Korean BB Cream (excellent stuff)

Evening:

Gentle Wash with DKR Cleanser

Benzoyl Peroxide 2.5% (Following Dan's Regimen)

DKR Lotion + A squirt of Argan or Grapeseed oil


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Right, do you think that the placebo effect could sorta do the opposite? Meaning if ALL we ate was a bunch of the junkiest of the junk foods like Ice Cream, Cakes, & Chips and we BELEIVE along with the subliminal messages or innertalk tapes that it's good for us, that we will all still be big, strong, & disease free???

Now, what I do not understand and that some member's aren't grasping is that if someone does something to help another health problem, seemingly unrelated to acne, and their acne also improves, HOW is that a placebo???

Of course, like Snipe said, if you change your diet for some reason, due to vacationing, etc and it turns out to be a healthier non-western diet, and your skin and others' skin improves while eating this food on this island and then once you come back to eating a western diet, it get's worse again, HOW is that a placebo if during this period, you weren't even thinking about an association between acne & food???

I am absolutely not knocking the power of the mind, but I can recall several occasions when I was taking something SPECIFICALLY for another problem and it ended up doing something completely unexpected for me. Once I realized this I did some research and found support as to how these could work to heal several problems instead of just the ones I was hoping it would work for (which it usually didn't work for), but none of them are ever sold for those purposes.

Once again, I am not knocking this!. If we can get everything aligned properly mentally to heal our bodies & thus alter our gene expression I am ALL for it. Yet, that still doesn't explain how it can possibly be a placebo or nocebo when you without an inkling, unknowingly, accidentally "discover" something.


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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A person's beliefs and hopes about a treatment, combined with their suggestibility, may have a significant biochemical effect. Sensory experience and thoughts can affect neurochemistry. The body's neurochemical system affects and is affected by other biochemical systems, including the hormonal and immune systems. Thus, it is consistent with current knowledge that a person's hopeful attitude and beliefs may be very important to their physical well-being and recovery from injury or illness.

Why can people change their eye colour instantaneously? Why can people make themselves sick? When a coloured dye was put on warts and told that it would go away, the warts did in most of the cases.

Right, do you think that the placebo effect could sorta do the opposite? Meaning if ALL we ate was a bunch of the junkiest of the junk foods like Ice Cream, Cakes, & Chips and we BELEIVE along with the subliminal messages or innertalk tapes that it's good for us, that we will all still be big, strong, & disease free???

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This is impossible because the body can't make macronutrients out of thin air(Protein). We're talking about manipulating things you already have within you or can make within you. The guy in the testimonial said that he ate a junk diet and couldn't get acne. His subconscious was stronger than his conscious will.

It isn't a placebo, who said it was? If you're mind isn't directed to a certain thing, it can't help you. Possibly they were less stressed because they did a helpful thing. Maybe they grew out of it. Maybe they started exercising or whatever at he same time. Maybe it was the subconcious.

Perhaps, and I never said diet can't play a role in acne. Was that completely unexpected thing a clear face? Did you read something about a certain food helping acne as well as the other thing? The testimonial even said this guy was clear by eating a diet more restrictive than 99% of you eat. Yet it could have all been in the mind because he planned it for acne. I'm sure you didn't get a clear face by coincidence. All that research and tweaking to your diet, suppliemnts, etc... have been the result of acne research which you've said numerous times in posts. You were never 100% clear until you researched havily into acne causes. am I right?

I agree with your last point. It isn't a placebo if you find somethign helps that was totally unrelated to it's original purpose. However, everyone here from their diet to liver flushing did it becuase they believed it could help your acne. That totally unrelated thing could have all been in your subconcious. Yuo are planted with subconcious things all the time and your daily actions are littered with it. If you wre to actually find out the things hidden in your brain thats controlling you, I'm sure that you would find most of them totally unrelated to the activity, yet in reality it drives the activity.

The original idea was that the diet may or may not have worked for this guy. It could have been a placebo or not(he planned the diet heavily towards acne though). The point of this is that the power of his mind was overriding the diet. He ate crap and still didn't break out because his subconscious wouldn't let him internalize those feelings of a certain food being related to acne.

These tapes will work whether you know what they are about or not becuase they bypass our concious. Again, 90% of what you internalize is subconcious. There are things in your brain that you would be shocked you have. Marketers know this and use it to their advantage. WE don't know how we enter a store specifically or which direction we look as soon as we enter, or how we internalize certain store layouts, yet it's all predictable becuase it's stored in our subconcious and reinforced without us knowing it everytime we shop. This tape can be doing hte same with acne, that is reinforcing the image of clear skin so your body responds in kind.


These are not steps, but stages some people progress through when going from conventional to holistic medicine. Stage 2 is how I became 99%+ Clear, eliminated my dysmennorhea, significantly reduced my sebum & pore size, etc & is my predominant method.

Stage 1 (Treatment):

* (Daily) Isocare Skin Control Cleanser, Dream Products Customized Natural Face Lotion & Coppertone Sport Spray Sunscreen (mixed)

* (Sporadically) spot treat w/ anti-inflammatory (neosporin, hydrocortisone, salicylic acid) or a skin lightener (post-inflammatory pigmentation) to treat stubborn cystic/nodular acne that appears due to unknowingly or knowingly ingesting a food/ingredient that breaks me out (I do my best to avoid these foods). If you cover treated area w/ a bandaid, it makes product more effective.

Stage 2 (Prevention): "cheapest" method ~ Since Aug. 2002

* Follow a Gluten-Free, Trans-Fat Free, Dairy-Free and No Added Sugar diet for my Insulin Resistance/Hyperandrogenism (Silent Chronic Inflammatory Syndrome)

* Avoid ALL types of nuts and the Genus Prunus (almonds, plums, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries), Bananas, Pineapples, Cottonseed oil, Artificial Sweetners.

Stage 3 (Correction):

* Strengthen/Repair GI - Immune health

Research:

* Developing functional foods for those with acne & other special needs (assuming there's a defficiency).

* Developing good & "safe" formulas for various hormonal issues for women. Correction stage may resolve this for some.


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