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#21 BenKweller

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 03:56 PM

Humans are supposed to eat meat. The fact that some believe we have some greater good to deprive ourselves of our normal food is like a lion deciding not kill a hyena because he can get by on nuts and fruits.

#22 dr4ma

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 05:32 PM

Human's aren't physically designed to be carnivores (we don't chase down and catch the meats we eat naturally).

But...meat tastes good for most of us and won't kill you. biggrin.gif






#23 BenKweller

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 08:25 PM

"Human's aren't physically designed to be carnivores (we don't chase down and catch the meats we eat naturally). "

Um... yes we are. Chasing down is not a sign of carnivore -- killing for intention to eat is. And it still goes on in parts of the world.

#24 MariaS

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 10:29 PM

Ben, YOU are a silly, silly man.

Such ignorance should technically make you a bona fide cretin.

Good luck with that. eusa_whistle.gif

#25 Filipino

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Posted 24 November 2004 - 10:33 PM

true.. you can get the same "nutrients" that are found in meat in other types of foods and some (if not most) can be found in plants... but think of it this way... we're onmivores; but some people become vegetarians, and other become, well carnivores (think of all the cruelty we do to animals)...

#26 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:31 AM

Cruelty to animals is a human created idea. It's not cruelty when a lion kills a baby antelope but it's cruelty when I eat a chicken?

"Ben, YOU are a silly, silly man.

Such ignorance should technically make you a bona fide cretin.

Good luck with that. eusa_whistle.gif"

I love that your post made a statement without actually saying what I'm "ignorant" about. At least I can say that your lack of a point makes you a bona fide cretin.

#27 dr4ma

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 09:23 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 24 2004, 07:25 PM)
"Human's aren't physically designed to be carnivores (we don't chase down and catch the meats we eat naturally). "

Um... yes we are. Chasing down is not a sign of carnivore -- killing for intention to eat is. And it still goes on in parts of the world.

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There might be some people that can chase down a wild ox and take em down without the aid of rope, bow and arrow, etc(Michael Johnson speed x Schwarzenegger strength)....but we are not physically designed (or physically evolved) to be carnivorous. We have no claws, our teeth aren't sharp for flesh-ripping, we don't have stingers, we don't have venom - we require the use of tools to make up for our physical disadvantages.

If killing for intention to eat determines if an animal is carnivorous, then that means we can have animals with rows of sharp fangs, claws, a skeletal-muscular system designed to run exceedingly fast, poisonous venom....but choose to be vegetarian because they have no intention of killing animals. Rather they'd go eat plants, right?

#28 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 09:48 PM

That's idiotic -- some of the slowest creatures on the planet can be carnivores; however, humans can run up to 20 miles an hour which is comparable to the rate of many African animals that feed only on meat. Our lack of sharp teeth and claws is the result of our evolution in which our brain is used to hunt animals; huge animals that can claw out animals have tiny brains.

You're making a shitty argument about humans being designed to not eat meat.

#29 dr4ma

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 10:53 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 08:48 PM)
That's idiotic -- some of the slowest creatures on the planet can be carnivores;


examples please, including their prey.

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 08:48 PM)
however, humans can run up to 20 miles an hour which is comparable to the rate of many African animals that feed only on meat.


again, give examples of many african animals that feed only on meat that can run speeds of 20 MPH or less.

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 08:48 PM)

Our lack of sharp teeth and claws is the result of our evolution in which our brain is used to hunt animals; huge animals that can claw out animals have tiny brains.
You're making a shitty argument about humans being designed to not eat meat.

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When i talk about physical traits, I'm not talking about brain size. When I say we aren't physically designed to be carnivores, I'm not talking about brain size or intent.
When people go to the gym to enhance their "physical" fitness, its not about brains its about their muscular and cardiovascular strength.

Like I said before, name an animal that has claws, sharp teeth, venom that doesnt eat meat and chooses to eat plants instead. Thats how you prove me wrong, not just by insultingly saying so and not giving any examples.

#30 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:12 PM

Deer have pretty sharp teeth -- again, I don't understand why you want me to name you animals with "claws, sharp teeth, and venom" that don't eat meat. Carnivores are defined by eating meat -- but your argument that you need to have gigantic "obvious" signs is flawed beyond belief. Tons of shore dwelling creatures are carnivores (many mollusc, for example. Sea Stars, too, are carnivores).

"When i talk about physical traits, I'm not talking about brain size. When I say we aren't physically designed to be carnivores, I'm not talking about brain size or intent.
When people go to the gym to enhance their "physical" fitness, its not about brains its about their muscular and cardiovascular strength."

That's, again, an idiot argument. My point is that humans have evolved the ability to survive longer by doing away with the primitive evolutionary need to be fast and have sharp claws to catch food -- our brains evolved to outsmart large animals while posing ourselves less bodily harm; not to psych out our local apple tree.

#31 Green_Vegetable_Man

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:26 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 09:12 PM)
Deer have pretty sharp teeth -- again, I don't understand why you want me to name you animals with "claws, sharp teeth, and venom" that don't eat meat. Carnivores are defined by eating meat -- but your argument that you need to have gigantic "obvious" signs is flawed beyond belief. Tons of shore dwelling creatures are carnivores (many mollusc, for example. Sea Stars, too, are carnivores).

"When i talk about physical traits, I'm not talking about brain size. When I say we aren't physically designed to be carnivores, I'm not talking about brain size or intent.
When people go to the gym to enhance their "physical" fitness, its not about brains its about their muscular and cardiovascular strength."

That's, again, an idiot argument. My point is that humans have evolved the ability to survive longer by doing away with the primitive evolutionary need to be fast and have sharp claws to catch food -- our brains evolved to outsmart large animals while posing ourselves less bodily harm; not to psych out our local apple tree.

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I agree with dr4ma

We are not evolved due to our own mistakes of eating meat.

Nature designed us to be plant, vegetable, fruit eaters.

We cannot force evolution in any direction we may choose.

#32 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:28 PM

"We are not evolved due to our own mistakes of eating meat.

Nature designed us to be plant eaters.

We cannot force evolution in any direction we may choose."

1) Mistake? There were times in history where without our ability to eat meat, we would've gone extinct (think severe drought or cold periods when humans survived only on animals).

2) Nature didn't design us to be plant eaters.

3) Evolution is dictated by behavior. We can very well force evolution anyway we choose. If we moved to Antarctica, expect humans to become much hairier over several thousand years.

#33 Green_Vegetable_Man

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:35 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 09:28 PM)
"We are not evolved due to our own mistakes of eating meat.

Nature designed us to be plant eaters.

We cannot force evolution in any direction we may choose."

1) Mistake? There were times in history where without our ability to eat meat, we would've gone extinct (think Ice Age-like periods when humans survived only on animals).

2) Nature didn't design us to be plant eaters.

3) Evolution is dictated by behavior. We can very well force evolution anyway we choose. If we moved to Antarctica, expect humans to become much hairier over several thousand years.

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We may eat meat only in very small and limited amounts. This is natures law. Look at the structure of our teeth.

Secondly we must not forget that no human has been able to defy nature and tolerate temperatures like in cold places of the north or south pole without heavy clothing and body protection.

We cannot evolve according to our own design.

#34 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:41 PM

"We may eat meat only in limited amounts. This is natures law. Look at the structure of our teeth.

Secondly we must not forget that no human has been able to defy nature and tolerate temperatures like in cold places of the north or south pole without heavy clothing and body protection.

We cannot evolve according to our own design."

Our teeth? We have wisdom teeth, most likely, because of our previous dependence on raw meat.

We can evolve according to our design -- we can't brave the North or South pole because of limits imposed by our current state. However, polar bears can brave the poles while their grizzly cousins cannot.

#35 Green_Vegetable_Man

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:47 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 09:41 PM)
"We may eat meat only in limited amounts. This is natures law. Look at the structure of our teeth.

Secondly we must not forget that no human has been able to defy nature and tolerate temperatures like in cold places of the north or south pole without heavy clothing and body protection.

We cannot evolve according to our own design."

Our teeth? We have wisdom teeth, most likely, because of our previous dependence on raw meat.

We can evolve according to our design -- we can't brave the North or South pole because of limits imposed by our current state. However, polar bears can brave the poles while their grizzly cousins cannot.

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We are talking about solving the acne problem in our current state.

And our current state is very close to that of our ancestors who lived in warm tropical forests eating plants and fruits.

So it follows our current diet must follow that smile.gif

#36 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:49 PM

"We are talking about solving our acne problem in our current state.

And our current state is very close to that of our ancestors who live in warm tropical forests eating plants and fruits.

So it follows our current diet must follow that smile.gif"

If you really believe that all of our ancestors (whose "current state" is very close to ours [what the hell does that mean?]) lived in warm tropical rain forests, then you are an idiot.

#37 Green_Vegetable_Man

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:52 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 09:49 PM)
"We are talking about solving our acne problem in our current state.

And our current state is very close to that of our ancestors who live in warm tropical forests eating plants and fruits.

So it follows our current diet must follow that smile.gif"

If you really believe that all of our ancestors (whose "current state" is very close to ours [what the hell does that mean?]) lived in warm tropical rain forests, then you are an idiot.

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I know for a fact from my own experience that my body is happy on a selective raw vegetarian diet eusa_angel.gif

#38 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:53 PM

Nice job backing down from your faulty argument.

smile.gif

#39 Green_Vegetable_Man

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:54 PM

QUOTE(BenKweller @ Nov 25 2004, 09:53 PM)
Nice job backing down from your faulty argument.

smile.gif

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There was no faulty argument my friend.

Peace be with you smile.gif

#40 BenKweller

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Posted 25 November 2004 - 11:57 PM

Whatever you say, my friend.